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It appears my ETA is April 17 due to an electronic parts availability issue (they ran out of something) I think that had to do with my Navigation. This is fine by me since my work cut my pay down to $9 an hour from $25 an hour and I can't afford my car on that salary let alone anything other expenses (was told a few months ago the work slow down and shortage was just temporary; it's not and they cut my pay, too). Fortunately, I have a job interview for a new job in the same field at another hospital so I am thinking it is highly likely I am getting it. The position has been available since at least the beginning of December and is listed as "critical to fill" with hiring bonuses. I have the interview next week. They called me within two days of sending my application in. I will still keep my current crap job for a few months part time to get a little cash built up to pay down some other bills so I won't have to work so much to afford everything. I will have to drive to the new job, though, so I will really need my car!!! Currently I work at home.
As far as warmup, as soon as the oil pressure is up you could drive away. Just don't use a lot of throttle. This isn't peculiar to rotaries, it applies to any high performance engine - any engine even. When the engine is cold the parts haven't expanded to their final size and high power output can cause the parts to wear faster. After a few minutes of driving the engine is at "operating temperature" (the metal parts), and after about five minutes the coolant should be at its' control temperature.
Another way to look at it is when the temp. gauge is off the cold "pin" about 1/4" you can safely shut off the engine (safely re flooding). If you want to warm up a cold engine I find running it at 2000 to 3000 RPM cuts the time down a lot. Of course it also uses more fuel - tnstaafl (there's no such thing as a free lunch).
Did your RX-8 come with the "driver's guide" or did they just start including that recently? That is where they talk about needing to do it for an engine that is not warmed up. I know the service guys in the department at my dealer have been to the special rotary school that mazda has, and the depts opinion seems to be only do it when you haven't been able to properly warm up the engine.
The engine uses oil during operation. The real problem isn't fuel, which mostly evaporates and is easily and almost insteantly burned off, but oil that seeps in and pools over a few hours. So you need to drive it and/or rev it a bit to "blow out" the excess oil in the cylinders.
My trick is to start it, let it idle until the temp gauge *just* starts to come off of the bottom(about a minute or so), then drive it gently until it gets warm. Works like a charm and no vapor-lock(got carbs that are a bit famous for this, actually), either. Cold oil sits there, pretty much, while warm oil is easy to get rid or or spread around the cylinders. If the injectors or plugs get clogged with gummy oil sediment... oops.
That said, my car runs like junk for the first 2-3 minutes until all fo the excess oil and crud is gone. Then it's fine all the rest of the day. I suspect this is happening with the RX-8, though it should clear up much faster due to fuel injection and computers. Maybe a minute of bad behavior on really cold days.
My RX-8 has never needed more than 2 or 3 seconds to fire up even on 10F degree mornings. I just started to test another shut down procedure to see if the fire up time remains the same.
The new procedure is 3000RPM for 10 seconds, then take my foot off the throttle for half a second, then cut the switch.
The theory being, that by being letting off the gas first, that a even more of the remaining gas will burn up because for half a second the spark plugs will still being flashing. This probably happened anyway at times under my old procedure just from the random chance that my foot came of the gas before the switch off happen. So I'm not risking any thing new here.
As time goes on, I should be able to increase the time delay before switch off and then correlate this with the next start up time. If the start up starts to creep up, then I can theorize that any remaining gas is increasing and a finally theory can be published.
Silly, I know, I know, but college statistical training needs some manner of expression, otherwise why was I pounding that useless knowledge in my head all the years.
If you have gasoline inside a cold rotary engine, there is no way for it to evaporate, as there is nowhere for the vapour to go. In winter it wouldn't evaporate anyway, as the temperature is too low. When you try to start the cold engine with excess fuel inside the fuel soaks the spark plugs and they don't fire well if at all. Then the engine starts firing in lots more fuel (because it's in choke mode as it's cold). Now you have a flood. The only way out is to:-
1. stop the fuel injectors from adding more fuel, (one of Mazda's fixes delayed the fuel injector firing during cold start)
2. crank the engine to exhaust the fuel already in there, and
3. fix the spark plug problem.
The fixes are:
1. hold the throttle pedal to the floor - this engages a "fuel shutdown" mode that shuts off the injectors.
2. crank for 30 sec. at a time and let the starter rest (cool off) for a minute between. Hold the throttle to the floor throughout this procedure, otherwise you will end up with still more fuel inside! If you add a cc or so of oil to each rotor housing the pumping out works much better as the oil "finishes" the sealing in the housing. Because #3 requires removal of the spark plugs you can remove them now and add the oil in there - leave them out and you have an extra escape route for the fuel (and excess oil if you added too much).
3. Clean or replace the spark plugs once you think you have pumped out the excess fuel.
A flooded rotary will eventually start, be patient, it really will. It will also emit copious amounts of smoke for a few seconds (the excess fuel and oil if you added it will burn).
In "the old days" we used to use auto transmission fluid, and it REALLY smokes!
I actually fit in this car much better than the Acura TSX, which is a bigger car. The TSX was too narrow for me in the knee area, but the RX-8 fits me great there.
"Silly, I know, I know, but college statistical training needs some manner of expression, otherwise why was I pounding that useless knowledge in my head all the years."
Ha! This gave me a good laugh! I had a year of statistics in college that I have yet to use...
Your new procedure sounds basically the same as the "driver's guide" procedure with the exception that you do it every time. Right now I am doing the same thing if I run the car for less than 10 or 15 minutes. Will see how that goes and let you know. So far no problems, and its been in the 30s and 40s F here since i've got the car. Not the coldest weather, but not the warmest either.
I do notice that in this weather the car warms up quick. Probably won't be quite as quick on those 0 degree F days
Also, anyone bought the maza all-season floormats?
Thanks!
Wouldn't a proper fix be to just partially open the valves when it's shut off? If the gas could evaporate, it would solve the problem, or at least most of it. I was also wondering - would changing to those multi-prong plugs help at all? Not the dent on the in the center type, but the ones that I've seen with four prongs coming in from the edges. That seems pretty near impossible to "get wet". I'd also suspect that platinum plugs with their small resistor surface in the center would fare worse as well.
I called the Costco dealer on Tuesday, and left him a message saying that I wanted to order a car this week. He hasn't returned my call yet. I left him another message today. I never thought I'd see the day when I contacted a car salesman and said that I want to buy a car this week, and have been ignored. Maybe I'll phone him tomorrow and say, "What do I have to do to get me into a car today?". If I don't hear anything by Monday, I'll just go to another dealer, tell them what I get from the Costco program, and ask them to match it.
Good luck on getting the new job!
Rotaries have no valvetrain and hence, no valves.
In fact, I can say, with experience driving Mini-Vans, four door sedans, and wagons over the same 16 hour 1000 mile route, the RX-8 blows the other vehicles away because:
1) The RX-8 is way way easier to drive at high speed for passing and cruising. Need to get the job done in any other vehicle, you gotta work hard just to keep things on the road.
2) The RX-8 seats, are stunningly comfortable over very long periods. Other vehicles just don't support you.
3) The RX-8 is very easy to pack because of those suicide doors. Other vehicle might hold more, but then crap goes flying around alot too.
4) The RX-8 is plain fun to drive over the whole trip. Other vehicle are just mind crushingly boring to drive even 10 miles.
5) Put a golf glove on one hand then put an oven mit on the other. Which one is more comfortable?
Having done this modified shut down procedure a dozen times now, I can definitely say, that start up is much smoother and quicker with 1 second crank times every time. There must have been a very small bit of gas left before, because there was a little bit of a jerk to most startup. Now, it's like turning on an electric motor
That was my point, too - perhaps a device that opens up the intake ports or maybe even a couple of purge-valves(or simmilar) when it's off? Let some air into the engine. When the key is put in the ignition, they close click shut/back into position When the key is removed, they open up.
As I understand rotaries, the intake ports are ALWAYS open. They 'open' and 'close' as the rotor spins in the housing and the face of the rotor alternately covers up and then uncovers the ports (same for the exhaust side). The portion of the housing containing the spark plugs is located in a separate part of the housing from the intake. In other words, any fuel remaining in the portion of the housing containing the spark plugs is physically seperated from that part of the housing containing either the intake or exhaust ports.
Yes, I suppose that if the problem were severe enough, purge valves could be installed so that fuel remaining in the chamber with the plugs would have a means to escape. Personally, I don't think the problem is severe enough.
Even though the "intake ports" are always open, they are low in the engine assembly, and gas vapour is heavier than air. It stays in the engine as it forms an equilibrium of condensation and evaporation. A warm or hot engine has no problem evaporating any liquid fuel left inside, hence it's hard to flood a warm engine. In this case the heat forces the fuel vapour out into the air box as well as into the carbon canister. It also helps to have warm spark plugs - any fuel touching them will evaporate rather than soak into the ceramic.
The solution is very simple. Don't start a cold engine and then shut it down before it warms up a bit. Don't think this problem is restricted to rotaries. It isn't. Piston engines resist the problem of no start because in most cases the spark plugs are high (don't get exposed to any liquid fuel) and any liquid fuel left in the combustion chambers runs past the piston rings into the oil in the crankcase. As long as the spark plugs fire they will recover from a flood condition. Have you never noticed that sometimes a piston engine will start up and emit a lot of carbon dust? It was flooded!
Kind of like "glow plugs" for rotaries
Personally, I don't know that this is still really THAT much of a problem. Are there still continual reports of flooding issues following the latest updates to the ECM?
I've explained why it happened, and what Mazda did to fix it. I think it's fixed. End of story for me!
Agreed. Issue resolved.
Thanks All!
thanks all!
How is the reliability been on these vehicles, would I be better off with a 2005 or 2006? I like the way it drives, and would love to own one, but am a little nervous about the flooding, and weak starting issues.
I would have liked the NAV system, but I wasn't willing to pay the 2 grand for it. (Not sure if you realize that it is a $2000 option)
My thing for the dealership would be to have them change the oil and give you a new battery for the vehicle before you take delivery. check here on the Edmunds site and see what a 2004 with those options is worth (TMV) and maybe check Kelly Blue Book as well.
There is NO WAY I would pay $1300 less for a car 2 years older. I think your $23k price is closer ... but I still wouldn't do it, personally. Off the top of my head, I'd be looking for more like $2500 off for each year. So $5k off what I could get a new '06 for. That means less than $22k.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
2006 RX-8
6-spd Sport A/T
Velocity Red Mica
Grand Touring Pkg
Black Leather
Spoiler
Appearance Pkg
Satellite Radio
Fender Strakes
I can't wait until it gets here! My thanks to all who endured my questions on this forum...
I thought I remember reading something on the site (perhaps from bunnygirl about her car?) about build dates, or something like that. Is there any information that I can have the dealer check on for my car so that I can track it better?
Thanks everyone!
Have your dealer pull this months 'vehicle reqeust guide'....it gives them all the restrictions.
Possibly they have sometihng like that on the list as well - without the silly wait.
The wait stinks, but I have basically been waiting since before the 2004's were released and we could just read about them, so I can wait a little longer. At least I don't have to wait as long as everyone that ordered theirs thinking it would be delivered last fall.
Your dealer should give you an order number and probably your VIN when it is assigned one. You could then call MNAO and have them look it up for you but your dealer should also notify you of its progress. Since you are on the East Coast your car should be going to a port in New Jersey, so I don't know the exact shipping/delivery time frames for it. I know there is a guy in my other RX-8 forum that lives in PA and his car was built at the end of the same week mine was and his has just now shipped out and is to expect his car by mid April.
My car will have taken six weeks from starting production to delivery to me, so not too bad. It just depends on how long it takes to actually start production.
BTW, it is a CR Recommended car.