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Mazda RX-8

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  • I was glad to find a forum to discuss the RX8, but I wasn't expecting the doubts and nit picking that goes on. Here is my story and then the questions: A week ago today I go in for an oil change on my Protege and instead of sitting in the customer's lounge, I decided to go for a road test in the dealer's demo. A few months ago I tried to buy a 350Z but wasn't willing to pay sticker. When I went for the drive I knew nothing about the buy backs, the horsepower issues, etc. I drove the demo and liked it. I then drove a new car with markups for all these add-ons that I don't need. Didn't like the airconditioning or transmission on that car. Drove another one with no add-ons, and fell in love with the way it drove. This car is fun! I bought it because I liked the way it drove. I did get $1,600 off and to me since people are reading these posts from all around America I thought Indianapolis was better than mentioning Westfield, Indiana. I can drive a few hundred miles for a good discount! I never did think ahead that my discount was going to be chewed up buying snow tires and wheels.
    Now for my questions:
    1) The double sided tape doesn't hold the Mazda RX-8 plate in the bottom of the door sill. Should I use epoxy or try putting another piece of double sided tape on top of the tape already there?
    2) I have to drive the car year round, so where would you go to purchase snow tires and winter wheels? I've seen tirerack.com, but any other suggestions? I've seen talk of 17 inch wheels working on the car with 18 inchers.
    3) How does the tire pressure monitoring system work? i.e., if you change to steel wheels for the winter, does the system still work?

    Thanks for the good info on the gas cap. I thought I was nuts because I couldn't find a place to hang the filler cap.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    graphicguy: the revised maintenance costs you posted seem more in line with what I would have expected $941 for 50k miles. That includes $200 in tire rotation that I didn't anticipate. The S2000 uses staggered, unidirectional wheels and tires that cannot be rotated. I'm surprised to learn that the Mazda RX8 uses the same size front and rear wheels and tires. Even the perfomance oriented sedans I've considered (e.g. 330i, 530i) have staggered front and rear tire sizes with their "sport" packages.

    Mazdafun: I've been a big critic of Nissan's horsepower inflation, as well as Acuras. Not because I care about the rating, but because the performance doesn't add up. The 350Z, based upon it's "ratings" should be able to come close to my old 1997 Supra TT in performance and certainly surpass my current S2000 or the former 240hp E36 M3. In reality, it's slightly to significantly behind all three (not within eyesight of the similarly heavy Supra). And I too question the whether the identical engine that produces 240 hp in the Altima can be "tweaked" with exhaust system changes to produce 287 hp in the 350Z. Almost every model that uses the 3.5 liter Nissan workhorse engine has a different horspower rating, coincinding, just by chance, with their "level" in the Infiniti/Nissan hierarchy. Altima - 240. G35 - 260. G35 coupe - 280. 350Z - 287. Come on, do us customers look that gullible?
  • Graphic Guy - Even though 9 HP isn't much, we can't really say what we missed (or didn't miss) since we never drove a pre-production vehicle that was actually rated at 247 or whatever went with it. You enjoy the car the you got so it doesn't really matter, but who knows if there is any difference? I can't say what would have happened if Mazda didn't step up to the plate, but figuring this is the flagship vehicle and the one that is suppose to give Mazda a comeback, do you think it was worth taking the chance of doing nothing? I appreciate what Mazda did but it was also in their best interest to do so. If Nissan continues overstating, there will come a time that it bites them in the butt.

    "We've already heard from an expert that resale, more than likely won't be affected."

    I wouldn't disagree that the vehicle's resale value would diminish due to this HP error. However, I just feel that it will follow along the lines of other Mazdas and have a lower resale value than a Honda or Toyota would. So, I'm not saying it would have a poor one, just not a great one.

    Habitat1 - Why in the world did you give up your Supra TT? It's one of the few modern cars '95 and up...that hasn't really deappreciated. My father has one with less than 27K on it. I saw them (meaning a few) sell on Ebay with a few thousand miles more on it for around $34K. Quite amazing for a car that isn't more than six years old. By the way, those cars on Ebay weren't fixed up...they were stocked '97 Supra TTs.
  • I meant to say I'd agree that the HP error wouldn't diminish the RX-8's resale value.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,268
    as far as that sill plate, don't use double-sided tape on top of the existing stuff. Either clean it all off and use new tape, or (probably my preference here) use the epoxy that is designed to hold emblems on the car (you can find it at any auto store).

    However, I'd probably remove the tape in either case.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I bought a 1997 Supra TT 6-speed in late 1996 after a friend who had negotiated a very good deal got a job opportunity in Europe before the car arrived. I stepped in, bought the car, and when he returned 7 months later, somewhat reluctantly sold it back to him for essentially the same price.

    The Supra TT was an impressive car in terms of raw performance. However, I have to admit that I enjoy the S2000 as a third car more. What the Supra had over the S2000 in terms of acceleration, the S2000 has over the Supra in terms of nimble handling (the Supra handling limits were as good or higher, but it was a 3,500 lb car that felt like it). The "sport roof" of the TT was not as open or as convenient as the 6 second up, 6-second down power top of the S2000. And I got caught once in a quick thunderstorm with my golf clubs in the back of the TT and the roof panels at home. Lastly, the Supra TT was not a car I could comfortably drive to a professional business function if I didn't want to get some odd looks, especially with it's airplane wing attachment in the back. I even elect to leave the S2000 at home on occassion, but the S2000 is a lot less susceptable to the "boy racer" connotations that the Surpa TT invoked.

    I'd be curious as to the demographics of the RX8 buyers. I suspect that perhaps fewer professional 40 somethings would buy it, since it does have a bit more radical look than the 330ci or G35c (or even the S2000). But it really does look like the perfect car for someone in their 20's or 30's that doesn't want to be caught dead in a Honda Acccord coupe. And it's certainly infinitly less "boy racer" than the WRX or EVO.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    red8...that deal sounds good. Only questions I have....you say that the original car you drove had additions to it. Do you mean options like the GT Package, or do you mean additional dealer add-ons like door edge guards, "SUPERSHINE", etc? Did you get $1,600 off the Mazda MSRP sticker or was it subtracted from the "additional sticker" that dealers add? IS yours a base model? Were there any additions when you financed your car like $xxx added for marketing, GAP insurance, or any fees related to your loan?

    Wish I could remember the article, but one of the big trade rags questioned whether there really was a difference in the Nissan 3.5 V6 as it's used in its many applications? Their contention was it didn't seem like there was any difference in the engine that they tested regardless of the vehicle it was used in. Don't get me wrong, it's a great engine, but the same article pointed out that Nissan was saving itself a ton of money by only having one version of the engine and changing only weight of the vehicles, the exhaust systems and gear ratios in the vehicles it's used in. They went on to say that the different HP ratings of the 3.5 was more marketing hype than anything else. A ~50 HP swing from one application of the 3.5 compared to another application (Altima vs 350Z) is a tough number to swallow.

    While, I like the idea of free maintenance on my car, that's not why I'm keeping it. I'm keeping it because I love the car. Having free maintenance and $500 is just icing on the cake. Depending on dealer, I'm sure that the total amount saved would vary. $1,000 in free maintnenace looks to be a fair number, though.

    I think you have to divorce the RX from the rest of Mazda's lineup. As rroyce put it, RXs are strong on the resale market and get "all the money"...regardless of the model. It's pretty telling since he's seen RX8s at the auction that are commanding at or near MSRP. I think that bodes well for the RX8 regarding resale. Who knows what it will be worth 2-3 years down the line? I like what I'm hearing so far, though.

    Accords traditionally are strong on the used market. The latest model doesn't seem to be as well received as the previous one, though. Does that mean they will have lower resale value? Again, no one knows. If I had a crystal ball to predict these things, I'd quit my job. Only thing I can do is to ask the people who are "in the business" and are experts.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    So I don't know where the "not as well recieved" is coming from. Some people complained about the 1998 changover also. They had no problem selling them. In fact the Accord has been the best selling car to individual people for the past decade or so. Honda sells very few cars to fleets like some other makes.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    Not saying that the new gen accord hasn't been well received. I'm just commenting on their strength with the current generation on the used market. Nothing definitive, but the current gen accords that are on the used markets aren't holding their value as well as the previous generations.

    Could be lots of reasons for that....Camry has bested the Accord in the sales charts, current gen accord is not as desireable as a used car as its previous iteration.......
  • How many auctions does rroyce10 oversee? Are you basing the resale value of the current generation Accord on just one auction house? From everything I observed from ebay auctions/newspaper classifieds/trade magazines, the new Accord is doing just as well as it ever has on the used market. Perhaps there are very few on the used market, and those that are, may have been bought at a lower price due to high mileage or the fact dealerships are now selling them certified. Obviously, customers are going to be paying higher for the used dealership certified ones than the ones found at a hit or miss auction house.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    I can't really answer your question about rroyce's activities. I know he goes from one coast the the other to attend auctions. I also know the amount of people who congratulate him about being dead on his assessments for auctioned cars, trade-in values and retail values of cars....that includes myself. He takes time out of his busy day to answer untold amounts of questions like "what's this sled worth?". He hit my sale prices right in the bulls-eye regarding what a dealer would offer for my in trade. So, I consider him the best I've run across in regards to vehicle worth.

    My experience with Accord resale comes from the Regional Manager of the Acura/Honda super dealer in my area. He lives close to me and is a season ticket holder (like me) of the local sports teams, so we sometimes ride together when attending. He's always trying to get me into his stores. He's the one that said the used market for current gen Accords was soft. Certainly not scientific and certainly only one person's opinion in one part of the country. Still, I consider him an expert too, given his experience in the field of Honda products. Never thought about the trend for dealers to offer "certified" vehicles.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    Would have to be "soft" when the new ones are the very same. It's not like they are rare or very expensive to start out with.

    Carmax sure still has faith. Their used 03's are still pretty expensive.

    Not to offend Royce but he said we would get 15500 in trade for our 03 black EX-L 5-speed coupe with 16,000 miles. We got 17100 first offer. And paid 22,800 for a new 04 EX-L sedan auto. I like that deal.
  • I contacted my dealer (128 Mazda, Wakefield Ma) to get details on the service they would be performng for free, as started under one of Mazda's options. I also inquired about free replacement tires, as one poster stated they had neg. with their dealer as added incentive.

    They stated this was a Mazda corporate issue and all me dealings should be with the Mazda 800 number.

    This seems contrary to what others are experiencing with their dealers.

    Suggestions?
  • for the buyback.

    Did you have a trade in? How did they compensate for that?

    How about payments to a different bank for car loan?

    Tx
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    I suggest you find another dealer.

    If your dealer doesn't want to "handle" this, then they aren't a very good dealer, IMHO! If you stay with your current dealer, tell them that, in your part of the country and the way you drive, you qualify for the "severe" schedule for maintenance. Mazda NA sure didn't stipulate that the free maintenance wasn't for "severe" schedule drivers.

    I have a good relationship with my dealer. They said to bring my car to them for an service, maintenance, warranty issues and they'd be the interface between me and Mazda.

    I've also been able to speak with the Mazda Regional Rep, so that helps in my understanding of what Mazda and my dealer will do for the free maintenance.

    Regarding your trade-in....that's a seperate deal. If they still have the car, they may offer it back to you....but, I'm not sure. Personally, I wouldn't want my trade back after two months since you have no idea of who has driven your car, how they drove it, or what they did to it during that time.

    If they don't have it any longer, then just look at it as a seperate deal....the dealer gave you $xx,xxxx to buy your old car. With your used car now sold to the dealer, you then made a deal for $xx,xxx to buy the RX8...two different transactions.

    Gee....I stick by my total faith in rroyce10. I've seen too many people (including myself) that he was able to help, with dead on accuracy on a trade, retail, auction value for used cars. He may be off here and there, but 95% of the time he's right on the money.

    BTW...since the guy in Indiana who said he got $1,600 off MSRP hasn't responded, I'll assume that his deal wasn't as simple as $1,600 off MSRP. I'll assume he either had a trade that they ended up low balling him on to make up the difference, or that the deal was $1,600 off some inflated sticker, or there was some "back end" money that they made a profit on....maybe all of the above.
  • I have a feeling that you were right about the $1600.00 discount at the Indiana dealership. After thinking about it, that dealership was charging $1000.00 over MSRP to begin with back during the pre-order stage. I know this since they quoted me that amount and their sales manager was taking full advantage of the hype. I'd never buy a car from that dealership. Essentially, they could have just given $600.00 off of a demo model, but due to the inflated price on the sticker, it could have appeared as a $1600.00 amount. Maybe red_rx8 will respond to this.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    We have a mazda dealer in our region that is advertising the RX-8 at a substantial discount....but when you get to the dealership they require the buyer to purchase a non-mazda extended warranty for a couple thousand more then it's worth. clever, but sleazy.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    carliker....just like everyone else, I would have embraced some huge discount on my RX8. After all the FUD is sifted through, you find that the great deal isn't as great upon first blush. I've been buying cars for 25 years and have seen more ways to make money on a "car deal" than I care to admit. I've gone from being naive, to being a grinder to realizing that any car deal has to be a "win-win" proposition to both the buyer and seller for any deal to get done. Now, I make up my mind what car I want. I go to two or three different dealers to get their offer and settle on the one that I feel the most comfortable with and will be fair with me. I always tell the dealer I'm a buyer and do a little research to find out what others have paid. That's why Edmunds is helpful as well as carsdirect. There are some "jerk" dealers out there who will try to "hide" some of the $$$$ (I won't deal with them), but overall, most dealers are pretty up-front. Knowing what's in demand and what's not, also helps. Once the dealer knows you're a buyer, it's pretty easy to get to the price they're willing to sell at. An Accord, Taurus, Camry, for example, are going for invoice or a couple hundred over invoice, and that's before any rebates. No way you're getting invoice deals on a 350Z (although I could have bought one for $1K off MSRP) or an RX8. That said, I can get pretty near invoice on an Infiniti FX or a G35 sedan. It's all supply and demand.

    audia8Q....I'm sure you see deals that are made, depending on what your customers want, that aren't as simple as "I got $x,xxx off". If the customer thinks his/her trade is worth more than it really is, then the $ are just added to the purchase price of the new car. Conversely, if the price of the new car is more than the potential buyer is willing to spend, then the trade is figured at a lower figure. As you point out, there are other ways to add $$ to the deal, too....like your example of "extended 3rd party warranty". I've actually seen people pay $750 for tag transfers.

    On the other hand, few people will admit, like carliker and myself, that we paid MSRP. I know that's what the car is going for and was willing to pay it because even at MSRP, I think the car is a good value.

    With all the big rebates that the big 3 are throwing out there, it's sometimes hard to think that a car will sell for MSRP. Just a quick glance at carsdirect.com shows there are plenty of them out there...all of them, like the RX8, are in high demand. That's why I've been skeptical of anyone saying they got $x,xxx dollars off an RX8 and that there's this huge stockpile of them in the market. After you dig a little deeper into the claims, I found them to be little more than "smoke and mirrors".

    As an aside, I see that as more and more of the RX8s get some miles on them that MPG and HP is creeping up.
  • IRA Mazda, Danvers Ma is offering the 6 speed for 26 and change (do not have add in front of me). 20 in lot (IRA is a huge combined dealership).

    It was for the 6 speed.

    I actually spent a few hours there, and then bought my rx8 elsewhere.

    I had no longer signed the deal, then IRA called me up offering another $500 for my trade in. Told them I was done (even tho they were now the net lowest cost). Called me back 1/2 later and went up another $500. But, I was done.

    They also had a free $100K on power train etc.

    I now wish I had went with them, considering the confusion my dealer has on the HP issue.

    Call IRA Mazda and see if the deal is real.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,268
    There is also someone else here on edmunds who claimed they got offers from 4 dealers with a substantial discount. Audia8q knows what i'm talking about. Anyway, i've asked for the names of those dealers and received no answer. Always seems to be the way, doesn't it?

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • Like graphic guy said, it seems that all these ads are just smoke and mirrors to get you to the dealership. At the time I bought my RX-8, paying MSRP was actually getting a good deal. Little did I know that the dealership was planning to stick on a Rust Protection Plan for $600.00 when I actually came in to buy it. I was able to get it without it once I threatened to just get up and leave, but they were putting "the plan" on all the future ones they were getting. I can easily see them discounting the cars now for $600.00, when in turn, they aren't really discounting the car at all. The extended warranty is another ploy. One has to ask a dealership these questions before they even waste time heading out to their lot.

    pmarini - It's too bad that the IRA dealership couldn't have been straight with you right away and given you the money off. It's funny that the offers like the one you received twice are either at times when you have already completed a transaction with someone else or no longer care if a deal is made at all. Personally, I have lost my excitement of car purchasing due to a negative experience. So when I get a new car, either the salesperson reaches my buying price or forget it. I just don't care anymore and that's such an advantage of scoring a great deal.

    I've always been super neurotic about taking care of my new cars. Most of the time this can limit the amount of fun I have with it since I won't push the engine hard or take it to certain locations. I was acting the same way when I got the RX-8. However, since I planned to have it bought back, I realized I could let go a bit and just have fun with it. Let me tell you, I've had more fun with this car the last two weeks than I've had with any vehicle I've driven. Like graphic guy mentioned, the HP seems to be raising. The MPG is still sort of iffy, but eventually, I believe that will improve too. Though I have my reasons for having it bought back, it wouldn't have disappointed me to keep it either. It's easily the best car for the price on the market right now (even if you did pay MSRP). I just found myself not using the practicality of the vehicle. I don't put anything in the back and put all my stuff in the passenger seat. I still have the two seater, convertible scent (which was my last car) and I just haven't been able to get rid of it! Perhaps I can get a good deal this winter on a new S2000.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    p....the deal for the 6 MT in Boston looks to be a "stripper" which would be in the $26K range MSRP. That's without destination charges, though. How much you want to make a bet they all of a sudden add the dest. charges back in once you get to the dealership?

    brozen.....yep, always seems to be the "best deals" out there aren't ones we can duplicate as they all of a sudden didn't exist or dried up. Same way with huge amounts of inventory. Someone says they saw a bunch here or there, but once you do a little follow-up, the stock disappears.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    Can't fault your S2000 choice at all....nice cars.
  • Quote: I've been a big critic of Nissan's horsepower inflation, as well as Acuras. Not because I care about the rating, but because the performance doesn't add up. The 350Z, based upon it's "ratings" should be able to come close to my old 1997 Supra TT in performance and certainly surpass my current S2000 or the former 240hp E36 M3. In reality, it's slightly to significantly behind all three (not within eyesight of the similarly heavy Supra). And I too question the whether the identical engine that produces 240 hp in the Altima can be "tweaked" with exhaust system changes to produce 287 hp in the 350Z. Almost every model that uses the 3.5 liter Nissan workhorse engine has a different horspower rating, coincinding, just by chance, with their "level" in the Infiniti/Nissan hierarchy. Altima - 240. G35 - 260. G35 coupe - 280. 350Z - 287. Come on, do us customers look that gullible? "

    You must own an RX and feel pretty bad with all the issues to make some of these suggestions about the performance nissan offers. First, no owners of the nissan products you mention were let down from the expectations they had from a tricked up test car that never came to market. Not to mention when you drive the Z or G the thrust feels like a V8 and not in any way compromised like the less than thrilling acceleration of the rx-8.

    "slightly and significantly behind the e36 m3 and the s2000" Thats just wrong man...i beat an m3 last month from 1999 and raced my buds 6 mos ago in my sedan G35 and really made him mad. As for the s2000 - much better than a mazda but still beaten often by sedan g's with that awful VQ that wins award after award. s2000 need a launch from hell to run with the VQ and yes then they are faster...how many lauches you got at 7000 rpm before something flys off the drivetrain? 3, 4, 10 maybe??

    I mostly found your comments about the altima hp and the z hp being bogus and assuming they use the same exact setup in each and simply market the hp # as whatever they want. Dude have you looked in the engine bay of a z and then an altima - check it out. The Z has a much different intake pipe and plenum not to mention the exhaust is significanly different with variable output top increase low rpm torque in the Z. Can't speak to the supra from experience but the NA supra was about 1 second slower which actually says alot about the supra I-6. Turbo should not be compared. Drive a Z and then an Altima 3.5...listen and look and then think again. I actually think that TT Supra with 5 seconds and 340 HP is right on compard to 287 HP NA and a 5.5 time. Your talking 53 HP lower and its prob a drivers race.
  • bpraxisbpraxis Posts: 292
    Hello everyone and I am seeing many RX8s sitting on the lots at local dealers that I pass by everyday. One dealer is advertising over 30 new 8s for sale.

      This does not bode well for winter sales where traditionally sports car sales are weak.

      My guess would be the dealers will be very flexible with discounting soon. My target would be a maximum of $500 over cost.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    With Bpraxis. I'm seeing those same ads...And unbought cars.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    same people, posting the same tired stuff, dredging up the same tired points over and over again.

    "My car beats this other car...tons of stock over here...no, its over there....big discounts aren't here yet, but they're coming (no matter what those who have experience say)....." and on and on and on!

    ...mostly from Nissan lovers.

    You guys keep chasing ghosts.....
  • Habitat does not own a RX-8, he has a Honda S2000, so please dont bash the RX-8, the owners here dont need another RX-8 vs 350Z argument :) Thats the last thing I want to see here. I will soon own a 350Z myself, and if I could afford another car I would get the RX-8 rather than another sedan to haul the family around while having fun! :D

    Its funny, even on an RX-8 board Habitat manages to insert something bad about the 350Z in between discussions. It no secret about his displeasure on the 350Z, anyway he is entitled to his opinions, some of which I actually agree on.

    The 350Z is definitely not a lightweight, most especially compared to the S2000... however its unfair to compare a 4 cylinder to one that has a V6. Lets compare the 350Z to a Honda sports car that does have a V6, the Acura NSX. The 2004 Acura NSX 6MT coupe weighs 3153 lbs (from Acura's Website). My Enthusiast 350Z weighs in at 3197, only 44 lbs heavier, and the NSX is made mostly of Aluminum while the Z is not!

    Also when comparing to the 1995 Maxima, while the 350Z is indeed heavier, it does have a significantly better crash score as well. I checked on the 1995 Maxima crash scores, and it was rated poor/marginal, while the 350Z is rated Excellent. All the weight was probably used to increase structural integrity.

    It is not fair to compare newer cars with the older generation. I looked up the 1991 NSX, and it only weighed in at 3069, so you can see that the newer generation NSX has gained weight over time, no doubt to make it more crash worthy.

    Plus all that platform sharing is going to cost the Z some weight no doubt, but at the price point it is selling I cant complain.

    Although I agree with Habitat about the HP thing, compared to BMW ALL Japanese makes seem to be overstating their horsepower. BMW either understates their HP, or their transmission is the most efficent on the planet, with RWHP quite near to their crank HP.

    The S2000 puts out 195HP average to the rear wheels, the 350Z puts out 230HP average. Given this figure,

    S2000 240HP, about 18.75% drivetrain loss.
    350Z 287HP, about 19.86% drivetrain loss.

    Given these figues, the Z is not too far behind the S2000. Now compare this to a BMW 330CI that makes 201HP to the rear wheels.

    330CI 225 HP, 10.6% drivetrain loss.

    As you can see, BOTH Japanese cars have over-inflated HP compared to the BMW. So if the 350Z is guilty of over-inflating the HP numbers, Honda is guilty as well with theirs.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,213
    I know that some of you are Nissan fans. Question is why do you want to congregate here instead of the Z or G forums?

    Only thing I can ascertain is that you want an RX8?

    If you really want some discussion points, you can take a look at this....

    http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1839/article.html
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