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Steve, Host
Can it handle Florida or Arizona heat?
Anyone here drive an Element last summer in a very hot climate?
I'm thinking about getting a black Element (which will be even harder to keep cool than other colors).
Actually, I would get either black or white if were to get one and black is the only choice for now unless Honda adds white for 2005.
If white doesn't become an option and I still want an Element, I'll go with the black though.
Hopefully, the A/C is strong enough to keep the interior of a black Element cool in 100-110 degree summer heat.
Our 3 month old FWD 5spd EX is definitely a dicey handler in 'damp' conditions. This vehicle really needs an limited slip differntial.
On numerous conditions over the last few days after the rain here in New England, we encounter wet spots here and there... if I accelerate anything more than lightly, the E loses traction up front the same way my 1974 VW Bettle would get squirrely in the back. I can easily break the wheels loose in 1st, 2nd and sometimes 3rd gear.
I am no longer sure that this Element is a safe vehicle for my teens to drive.
Suggestions? ( I know that AWD solves these problems, but why in the world is Honda selling such a tricky car these days?)
-juice
If I could I would definitely go back and get the AWD.
In the E's defense however I should add that although it breaks traction easily it still doesn't understeer much. It still holds it's line through a turn even if the front wheels are slipping.
I don't think the traction or lack thereof in the FWD is a safety issue. It's just annoying. To all prospective buyers: get the AWD. You'll be glad you did. Hey it only adds 150lbs of weight.
Anyone changed tires yet? Perhaps not...
-juice
I still got my referral fee, anyway - my brother picked up a left over 2004 Legacy L/35th yesterday. :-)
FWIW, if you like wagons, check out the 2005 Legacy 2.5i. 23/30 mpg, PZEV in certain states, even. That was a pretty big improvement, it used to be 21/27 with 3 fewer horses. They "added lightness" so it lost 180 lbs, aluminum hood, hatch, bumper beams front and rear, and roof rails.
In a strange way these gas prices might be a good thing, talking some sense into more folks.
-juice
Im sure the 2.5 i is more than $20k no? Plus, it has no where near the room the element has.
The CR-V I test drove could chirp the tires in 2nd gear. The 2.4l has good torque and coupled to short gearing, that happens.
My bro bought a sedan, under $18k, not bad. And that was with the 6 free oil changes and stuff. He got a silver 5 speed manual. The L/35th has the moonroof, 16" alloys, ABS, AWD, power everything, etc, so it's very well equipped for the price.
Of course his was a 2004, the 2005 are pricey right now because they are brand new. A wagon would be an alternative to the Element, IMO. The cargo area is not nearly as tall but it is quite long.
But....it's conservatively handsome, not nearly as Sha-zam! as the Element. Different strokes...
-juice
tidester, host
I would also hope they make the E in white, so much easier to cool and keep clean.
I haven't had any slippage driving wet or gravel roads, at least nothing like my old Accords.
Everything else about the E is wonderful except for the AC outlets - what is up with that?! None of my accessories will plug in.
04 Fiji Blue EX-S AWD 5-speed
I think beige/gold are good, silver, medium tones tend to hide most of it.
-juice
A white E with those black panels would look pretty dowdy IMHO.
So at this point I am back to the Element and probably looking at an AWD based on traction comments I've seen in these posts. Anyone have a sense of what the overall mpg is on an EX AWD with automatic?
Also, any advance word on what might be new on the '05 since I'm already this far along into 2004?
Thanks
Schweikb
I would also be very interested in advance word on changes to the Element for '05.
But I can't imagine Toyota doesn't have off the self parts that don't fit the Scions. You just found one dealer that wasn't willing to do it.
-juice
Anyway.
Remember Honda's Civic Wagovan? Back in '91 or so that thing had exactly 108hp and managed to get around nicely. Today's HP standards are a lot higher but the Scions are feather light, too.
-juice
Of course it is very conservatively styled, but I really don't care and kind of like the anonimty it would offer. The best price I can get for an Element EX AWD automatic w/o side airbags is $20,900 (list price $21,640 with $740 discount - 3.4%). The Highlander lists for $25,575 and at its $22,180 sell price this amounts to a $3,395 or 13.3% discount.
I realize the vehicles are very different, but for me the Highlander might just work and offers a higher level of equipment and finish for $1,280. The powertrain warranty on the Highlander is 5 yr/60K miles vs. 5 yr/36,000 miles on Element. The Highlander obvuiously does not have AWD at this price but I don't think I need it for 2 reasons: 1) The Highlander's front wheel drive with traction control, stability and larger tires (225/70x16) should get me through the normally minimal snow I get in my part of the country: 2) The loss of traction problems with the front wheel drive Element (the main reason I would get AWD on an Element) don't exist with the Highlander. I've checked the Highlander forums and in my test drive in heavy rain there was no evidence of a problem.
Anyone want to tell me I am crazy or just have bad taste?
Bob
They aren't mutually exclusive attributes! ;-)
Seriously, you're neither! It sounds like you hadn't settled on your requirements and you may want to spend a little time reassessing your needs. Good luck.
tidester, host
What kind of real life gas mileage are folks getting with the Element AWD/MT?
Also, CR reports that the Forester X is superior in virtually every area: ride, noise, acceleration, visibility. But, they compared the two in AT, not MT. Any observations?
Overall :
No major problems, some disappointments.
Defects :
One rattle in dash above right center a/c vent. Overhead light bulb emits squeal as it is softened from light to dark after the door is shut.
Performance :
Very peppy at all speeds. Geared very low, revs very high at highway speeds. Needs 6th gear or o/d for cruising.
Very slippery on damp roads in New England. Easily chirps front tires on dry pavement. Otherwise handling is fine for a tall box.
21.2 mpg around town gas mileage. 24-25 on highway in March, probably better now.
Interior :
Gray plastic interior panels scratch very easily. Seat belts for example retracting already have caused marks. Rear cargo area panels should be much, much tougher. Green door trim has nice soft touch but gets dirty easily and is hard to clean. At three years this interior will likely need to be gutted.
Rear flip seats very heavy and hard to manipulate. Hooks for holding up hard to latch and unlatch.
Exterior :
Very tall and hard to wash roof. Plastic panels seem to be holding up very nicely.
For me, the Element is a great fit at this point in my life. We will be new home owners and were needing a vehicle that offers a lot of utility. Our other car is a Hyundai Tiburon. Anyways, pluses for the Element include the awesome 270 watt stereo with aux input for my mini ipod, the amount of space, the smooth shifting 5 speed manual tranny, the smooth engine (cant even tell if its idling), the configuration of the interior seats, interior room in general, etc. What the Forester has going for it is better gas milage (Im avg 23 mpg in mixed City/Hwy driving - mind you I only have 1,000 miles on the car), sportier handling, a superior AWD system, standard fog lights, roof rack, exterior temperature gauge, and optional dimming mirror with compass. To me, the Highlander and Forester feel cramped compared to my E. Actually, a lot of cars do. The E's internal surfaces can easily be wiped down should something spill. Cant say that about the Highlander.
See? Civic wagons were cult cars. Told ya. ;-)
zman: fuel costs represent only a small percentage of your total ownership costs. Get the one you like best. Being happy is more important than saving a few bucks here or there in the long-run.
Having said that, ask yourself if the Element's quirks will wear on you over time. You have to remove the front seat belts to let someone out of the back seat. Will that happen often for you? Are 4 seats enough? Will you benefit from the wipe-down interior?
In other words, you'll enjoy the honeymoon stage with any new car, but which car will you like better 3 years from now?
When you answer that, whatever choice you make, I say buy that one.
-juice
Back to the Civic wagon for a second ... we gave that car to my sister who didn't take care of it quite as well as we did but it never gave her a problem. We have looked for another one but we can't find one with as much "personality". It's amazing what a little bit of peeling primer can do for a car's character
CR rates the Forester best in class overall, also safest for teenage drivers, and also #1 in their Safety Assessment.
Element scores well also, so choose the one that best fits your life style.
-juice
The pup is a 16 pound Doxie and isn't really badly behaved but when he jumps up to look out the window he rests on the trim just under the window or on the arm rest. I now have a 98 Trooper and a 2002 Altima - both cars have a smoother softer material in those places (Altima is velour, the Trooper is a padded vinyl) and after years there are no marks. I really wonder about the tough looking Element interior - is it really long-term durable or mostly for show?
Anyone?
Thanks,
Bob
The bags now go in the back on the urethane floor, which appears to be the strongest material inside the car.
I can't imagine having a dog in an E. I think it could be very hard on a soft, scratch prone interior like this one. At least Honda could have spec'd the plastics to have the same color interior as the surface so that scratches weren't highlighted.
-juice
What I'm thinking of is leaving the air travel cage I have for him in the back of the Element (if I get one). Then I can stick him in there while I'm gone for a few minutes. BTW I always leave all the windows down at least 3 inches, leave him water in a plastic dish and put a note on the dash with my cell phone in the event someone well meaning thinks I am being cruel. I have a clip on battery powered fan I turn on in warmer weather to circulate some air. He actually loves being in the car and when I visit certain relatives (with kids) he prefers to sleep in the vehicle overnight and has never done anything bad. Many years ago I had a Norwegian Elk Hound (a dog) and one time when I left him alone in the car for about 10 minutes I returned to discover he had chewed all the covering and padding off the steering wheel, thoroughly ripped apart the passenger bucket seat and chewed off the fake leather shift knob from the stick shift (this was a Chevy Monza). Needless to say he never went anywhere in the car again.
-juice
Scrathes are everywhere because of her but we expected that. That's why I got the Element.
Good Luck.
I took it on a 700 mile road trip in April and got around 24 - 25 on the highway (as I remember).
But I've noticed as the weather has warmed and now after 4000 miles, around-town mileage is around 21 and I am driving it harder too.
He's a small lap dog so I harness him in to a seat belt in the passenger area, not the cargo area. The harness works - I was slammed from behind by a Saturn (no ABS on a rainy day) and the dog was hardly even startled. The Saturn was not driveable!
2 reasons for the mileage: green engine, and your right foot. )
-juice