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Dont worry about what speeders do! Speed itself is not inherently dangerous on clear roads with good visibility. IF I pass you, the very existence of a speed differential between us does not somehow jeopardize your life. I can just picture you shaking your fist at all those young whipper snappers cause after all, nobody should be going faster than you! Speeding too quickly for traffic or road conditions is a whole different story.
OTherwise, the only time speeders become a danger or an irritant is when some jerk decides he wants to cruise at 5 below the limit in the left lane because it's the easiest way to continue his cell phone conversation without having to change lanes. Then some people get frustrated into trying all sorts of tricky maneuvers to get around these little globules of road fat.
The left lane is for passing, the right lane is for cruising. IF you are keeping pace with cars to the right or getting passed on the right you're in the wrong lane, and you have become more dangerous than a speeder because inevitably some speeders that would have passed right on by harmlessly are now pent up behind you getting more frustrated by the minute.
How's about this... everybody drive to the best of their ability without worrying about what other drivers are doing so long as it does not interfere with you. Everyone do their best to avoid disrupting the driving pattern around them unnecessarily. Also, a question kinley, which is one I ask anyone who advocates left lane blocking because I tend to find that Left LAne campers can never take their own medecine. What if you were doing 65 on the dot in the left lane then someone else decided they wanted to be in front of you doing 55, forcing you to slow by 10 mph? What if you were trapped in the left lane behind this person because all the lemmings on the road nowadays love to sit in someone's blind spot or right next to another car and cruise all day long? You wouldn't care since theyre obeying the limit right?
I was doing 80 mph in the left lane on Friday when an SUV came up fast behind me. He was probably doing 100mph. You can bet I moved to the right lane as soon as I could and got out of his way so he could go by.
Incidently, 80 mph is a typical speed on expressways I75, I275, I94, I96 etc. around Detroit. The other day some woman in a Chevy Malibu tailgated me at 80 mph. She had about 3 kids in the car. Judging from their seating positions and the way they were moving around, they did not have seat belts on. All in all, pretty inconsiderate of her kids' safety.
-Andrew L
Even if, in fantasyland, everyone was going the exact speed limit, LLCs are still breaking the law. Furthermore, they are still disrupting the flow of traffic. I see it all the time.
A grossly inconsiderate driver enters the passing lane at, say, the speed limit. Which in and of itself is arbitraty. (Example: In Pennsylvania, driving in the passing lane is illegal, a 4-point ticket. Driving within 10% of the speed limit is not even considered probable cause to cite someone for speeding. Up to 19mph over the limit is a 2-point ticket, this shows that 84mph on the PA turnpike is less illegal than being an LLC. Also, some other states, such as Washington, place a higher fine on LLCing than exceeding the speed limit by less than 20mph).
That being said, what happens is a backup occurs. However, some people think that rolling traffic jams are safe. Most objective, reasonable and intelligent people realize that a smooth flow of traffic is safer than a rolling traffic jam, and also realize that it is the job of the State Police to enfor the laws. By the time you get 10+ cars back, traffic is NOT flowing at the limit, but at a speed well below. So now the approaching traffic from the rear has an even high speed differential than was there in the first place.
Ergo, driving like an inconsiderate fool is also unsafe.
Bill
Well for me at least I don't get upset if someone cuts me off too much (hey, everyone makes a mistake sometimes), but I get frustrated and feel a need to run them off the road if they're taking their sweet time in the left lane, not noticcing what's behind them - aka: inconsiderate drivers at best, likely ignorant, or just plain moronic at their worst.
Second point. If you stick to the left lane while even 5mph slower than left lane traffic, you cause all those left lane drivers to either:
a) slow down
b) touching their brakes to slow down
If "b" happens, then you get a... c'mon you know this word...think harder...YES traffic jam! All cars in that lane will either brake or switch lanes and brake to avoid the LLC, reducing overall traffic speed on all lanes, and resulting in a traffic jam. I've seen it form way too ofter on the 401 (major highway here in Toronto) just b/c some &^%$ head didn't look or didn't care to move over.
Dinu
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I'm always reading all these horror stories about parents or children getting killed by a drunk driver who walks away without a scratch.
drunk drivers speed, swerve, drive slow on the highway (so they think the Trooper won't notice somebody doing 40mph on the highway).
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Maybe one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard. People cruising in eachother's blindspots or right next to eachother, day dreaming, talking on cell phones, eating Big Macs, wandering into my lane whenever the highway curves even a little bit... sorry, I don't buy it. I don't like sitting next to those people.
I like to avoid crowds and keep moving and if someone else wants to do the same I respect that. Ever seen a sign that says "Keep right except to pass, but if you're doing the speed limit it's OK to stay in the left lane even if you're getting passed on the right and there's a long line of cars backed up for miles behind you with all the drivers giving you the finger and passing on the right with a foot to spare?" Nope. You only see "Keep right except to pass." In many states it is in fact the law: No cruising in the left lane, regardless of speed. Wherever you see the law discussed, there's no caveat saying 'but if you're doing the speed limit or below it's OK.' I HAVE seen people pulled over for it. Because it's common sense: when people who want to drive at a certain speed are stuck behind others who want to drive considerably slower, when there's no good reason for those slow drivers to be on the left, you increase frustration and the likelihood for erratic behavior. Again, Mind your own darn business. You still haven't proven how if I wizz by you at 85 while you're doing 65 and disappear in the distance I am endangering your life. I think it's old man's syndrome... none of them young whipper-snappers should be going any faster than a nice, experienced, safe driver like yourself who thinks unnecessary congestion and rolling traffic jams are perfectly safe. Speeding in itself isn't safe. Driving too fast for road or traffic conditions is. Left lane campers create rolling traffic jams, an unsafe traffic condition.
Show me a badge then I have to do what you want. If you don't have one get the heck out of my way if you are not actively passing other cars and I'll do the same for you. Yes, speeders are violating the law. But speeding in and of itself does not interfere with anything you do. Left lane camping is a direct interference in other people's driving patterns. Like I said before... your type of thinking totally defeats the purpose of the multiple lane highway, which is so that drivers who want to go faster don't have to get stuck behind slower drivers. Everybody gets to go at their comfort speed so that there's no necessary congestion. By your thinking all highways should just be one lane since people like you want to get in the left lane but then go the same speed as the next car over anyway.
After the light turns green he promptly gets into the left lane and passes us. Traffic is backed up by the next light about 1/2 mile down and we are all slowing down. This idiot evidently didn't see the MILLION brake lights in front of him and goes into a full panic stop about 6 inches from the rear bumper of a new Caddy DHS. Full wheel lock and skidding, screeching rubber, smoke and all. WHAT A MORON!
Makes me hope he gets what's coming to him without hurting anyone else.
The rules of etiquette are there in golf to ensure that this friction never occurs. Likewise for the rules of driving etiquette. And one such rule is "Keep right except to pass".
You see, driving to some people is something they enjoy. To others, they just want to get to their destination as soon and safe as possible. Sure, they may cheat (speed), but why does that bother you so much? Just keep right, let them pass, and everyone's happy. Why cause people behind you to get angry and possibly do something stupid in their anger? Keep in mind that, though you may be doing the speed limit, those behind you certainly can not, because a person's speed normally fluctuates within ~5MPH as they drive.
Kinley, I know that you stand very strongly on this issue, I just want to know why? Are you mad at the world? Did you get in an accident in the right lane once? It makes no sense to me why someone would go so out of their way to tick off others around them when it would be so much easier to just let them by and let life go on.
I was riding in a friend's car on a trip to D.C. He does NOT like to exceed the speed limit. He'll go right up to it, but he won't go over it. We were headed south on I-83 somewhere north of Baltimore, cruise control locked in on 55 with traffic passing us in bunches. I wasn't saying anything to my buddy because I figure it's best to let the person in control of the car STAY in control of the car, but I was VERY uncomfortable sitting in a "rolling roadblock". Suddenly, flashing lights appear behind us and it becomes apparent the trooper wants US for some reason. When we pull over, the trooper comes up and warns my buddy for not keeping up with the traffic, that he was creating a dangerous situation on the highway. Didn't get a ticket, although I don't know if a ticket could be issued or not. Since I didn't say anything to him, I couldn't say "I told you so", but I DID give a silent THANKS to the trooper.
Other story happens on I-95 between Washington and Baltimore. We were returning in the evening from a trip to DC, my Dad behind the wheel, and it is raining HARD. So hard that the road is starting to flood a bit in the right lane and it's extremely difficult to see the lines on the road in the glare of the oncoming headlights in the water. Not much in the way of traffic heading our way, so my Dad is riding in the left lane. Less water to contend with and it's much easier to follow the road by watching the left side guard rail. Waa Waa Waa... flashing lights, siren... pulled over for "failure to drive to the right". Didn't matter that the right lane was under water and that we might have run off the road because you couldn't see anything in the downpour, Dad got the ticket. So even "extenuating circumstances" were of no avail when it came to being an accidental LLC.
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Real world - somebody will get road rage, shoot out Kinley's windshield, and the culprit will most likely only get probation from a sympathetic jury.
In other words Kinley, it just ain't worth it. Please heed the signs that say "Keep right except to pass". Most of the "speed demons" really are passing others, whether their speed is legal or not. You could also be "protecting" someone who is trying to get to an emergency room as quickly as possible. You never know.
I was just on Western Avenue (a big north-south thoroughfare in Chicago, generally with four lanes and a center median for turning, etc). It was about 4:30, so traffic is fairly heavy, but moving along nonetheless (probably ~30mph). Earier I see someone in an older BMW 3-series behind me, not doing anything strange. After the next light, this guy gets in the median and passes everyone for probably about three blocks (mind you, there are frequently cars turning in the median, or even worse, pedestrians waiting to cross the street). This area is a mix of commerical, residential and industrial. Guy keeps passing everyone (me included) only to be stopped at the same red light where we all ended up. Of course, no cops to be found.
I hate to generalize, but BMW drivers, at least in Chicago, are generally among the most inconsiderate @$$holes out there. Doesn't matter if the bimmer is twenty years old, they're just as bad, and usually on the phone while doing so.
A: The limit in Canada is 100km/h - 63mph. I like to drive on the city's highways anywhere from 110-140km/h (69-88mph), depending on traffic, weather, if I'm tired, etc.... Yes I am breaking the law. So what? If the right hand lane is going 90km/h I will NOT drive above 110 km/h as one of those drivers might pull in front of me.
It's really about sharing the road. I work evenings and drive home at 10PM. There is always for some reason a lost soul with a brain-dead mind that sits there in the left lane, even though traffic is going at his speed in the middle lane. Last nite for example, I came upon 2 of these. I flashed the 1st guy, he moved over, all good here, everyone was on their way at their speeds. The 2nd guy however was a smart@$$ and decided it's his duty to sit his @$$ there, even though at that point there was not 1 car for the next 100 m (300ft) in the middle lane. Why? It bothers me so much to see this. Please explain this to me, as I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOU.
BTW I was going about 130km/h at the time (81mph). I guess I should have been ticketed while the other guy was doing the right think...
THIS MY FRIEND IS WHAT P!$$#$ PEOPLE @%% - aka creates road rage
Regards,
Dinu
If I am in the left lane, passing traffic (in the right lane), and someone behind me wants to drive faster, why should I have to merge right, into slower traffic, and get stuck behind right lane, slow traffic? WHAT'S THE DEAL HERE???!!! Do I not have the same rights to be driving out on the interstate as the next person?
I guess I should clarify this daily, ongoing situation.
The interstate I commute on typically averages 75-85 mph in the left lane, and anywhere from 60-75/80 in the right lane. During rush hour, both lanes will be fairly congested with traffic. The average distance between cars is about 1 car length. For both lanes. Now like I said, I will be driving in the left lane, passing cars in the right lane. Where is it written in the law that states I HAVE TO MERGE RIGHT? I'm not impeding traffic, because I'm passing cars. I drive a good deal over the speed limit.
Now, if there's ample room for me to merge over & NOT GET CAUGHT UP & TRAPPED IN THE RIGHT LANE TRAFFIC, I'll move over. That's common respect & courtesy.
HOWEVER, if moving over to let someone by sticks me in slower traffic, I DON'T MOVE OVER! SIMPLE AS THAT! Doesn't matter to me if its a "law" or not.
keith
Keith: As long as you're passing, it's fine. Now if you're passing 2-3 miles faster than the guy in the middle lane, then that's a little inconsiderate, but nevertheless, if you're actually passing, pass all you want, then when it gets clear (if ever) move over.
Dinu
Now, enter 82-year old Horace Magoo, who merges his Cadillac Fleetwood onto said highway and meanders his way over the the left lane, holding a steady 55 mph the whole time. Now, while he is technically the only one on the road who is obeying the speed limit, he fits the definition of an LLC, because the traffic in the left lane was moving uniformly and steadily until he got there, causing everyone to brake, honk, try to pass him on the right, etc. If he wants to hold 55, he should do it in the right lane.
Now, going back to the initial scenario, let's say something else happens. This time, John Q. Yuppie, who feels the need to impersonate Mario Andretti on his way to work, comes flying up the left lane at 85 mph, only to be blocked by one of the 70-mph cruisers. Now, in this case, is the 70 mph guy an LLC? Should he be forced to merge right? Should Mr. Yuppie be allowed to pass him on the right? WRONG! In this case, just like with Mr. Magoo and his 55 mph Cadillac, this guy is the one who is trying to drive differently than everyone else. And, since there is no lane on this highway for which his speed is appropriate, he should slow his inconsiderate self down and drive like the rest of the people on the highway.
Basically, I contend that the factor that governs what is and is not reasonable highway driving behavior is consistency, not necessarily speed relative to the limit. Generally, the right lanes establish themselves at some slower speed and the left lanes establish themselves at some faster speed, and it's up to everyone who gets on the highway to pick whichever lane is moving at the pace they prefer. And if none of the lanes is moving fast or slow enough for them, that's too bad. The freeway is one of the few places where excessive diversity is a bad thing.
-Andrew L
I'd also like to add that I will be the first one to move over (usually I'm going between 75 & 90mph if Im in the left lane) if I notice someone rapidly approaching in my rearview mirror, but If it is going to make me get behind slower traffic in the middle or right lane and stay there for a few minutes, then I'll make the person wait.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
And then of course there's the ones who sneak into merging lanes on the highway to try to jump ahead of the car in front. These people are the hardest to put in their place because it actually looks to the cars they're passing like they're merging onto the highway, and so people usually make space for them.
9 times out of 10, the right lane passer has to make a desparate move back to the left to keep from totaling the car going 60 in the right lane. So, he'll whip it back to the left, no matter how much room is between the car he's just passed, and the car in front of them! I've lost count of the incidents where I've had to literally lock it up from 75+ to keep Speed Racer from clipping me! Let me tell you, this is FAR AND AWAY the most inconsiderate driving practice I see today. Do they think that getting 2 or 3 cars ahead will actually get them to their destination any sooner? I mean really. Yes, you beat 2 other cars to the exit by running up & cutting over at the last minute. Since when did the daily commute become a NASCAR race??!!??
If I've got room, I'll get over. If I don't have room, or moving over ties me up in traffic, I don't move over. If that ticks you off, tough! But don't be an absolute idiot & think, "Well, I'll show them! I'll just pass on the right & cut them off! YEAH!! That'll prove my point that these LLC'S need to get outta my way!"
All this will do is show your immaturity, lack of courtesy, and disrespect for others. Patience is a virtue, my friend. Obviously, its one that some of us have no grasp of.
keith
I call the cops and tell them some guy is weaving in and out, driving aggressively, and playing games with other motorists. I know they didn't take me seriously, didn't really expect them to. But then when I get a chance I drive next to Mr. hothead and wave my cell phone in the window. He gets the message immediately and sinks lower in his seat and starts taking real deep breaths and calming himself down and looking kind of worried. I waved cheerfully with a big grin on my face as if to say 'Wish I could be here to see you get pulled over but I have to exit now.'
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
I tap the brakes lightly to show my displeasure. No response. I make 'back off' gestures in my rearview. No movement, stays right where he is. I start hitting the brakes a bit more firmly. He movees closer. At this point I'm like " 50 thousand dollar Benz with fragile egg shell bumpers vs. 6 thousnd dollar pickup with nice sturdy chrome ones, and I'd love an excuse to put on a body-colored rear roll pan and some free bodywork anyway." I been hit from behind from even nicer cars than that and had almost no damage.
So I start really braking hard. Of course, he stays right where he is. I get to my exit, which is on the left. But by now I can read this guy's driving style like a book so I don't bother getting off. And just like I expect, he comes flying by me in the exit lane I was going to use. I notice that as with almost all road-raging slime I encounter, his windows are tinted so he can drive like a jerk without everyone else seeing what he looks like.
"Fine by me", I think. Once he passes I get over to get off. He has gotten back onto the highway but when he sees me getting off he gets back onto the merging lane and pauses to wait for me, as if he wants to play more games. I'm really not in the mood for it, so I get back on and of course he moves back onto the left lane of the highway, still in front. HE lets me pass him on the right then all of a sudden he whizzes by me doing about 90 and cuts me off again and then disappears into the distance, and even though my adrenaline is flowing by that time I'm still kind of amused that he must be sitting there all satisfied with himself, thinking he really won that road battle and taught me a lesson, as if I cared about anything more than getting off the highway and away from him. I get off at the next exit and go home, hoping one day Mr. S500 gets crushed by a big rig somewhere.
I have seen him use each one of those while driving. It surprises me still that he never got killed during those years. But he has calmed down quite a bit since then.
He also used the flare gun as a passenger and fired it while we were stopped at busy intersections. I don't think anything else draws quite a much (unwanted) attention.
...
That's one thing why I don't engage in any 'horseplay' on the road. I'd be way too afraid that I'd end up triggering the anger of a nutcase, like my brother.
-Drivers who obviously are unable to talk on the phone or eat while driving. Some of us can do this somewhat safely at times. If not, choose one activity or the other, please.
-Drivers who stop for no reason, or brake intermittently while driving down the street at ~15 mph. These are the same people who stop at red lights; likely they are lost. Please ask for directions, get a map or consult your Nav system, and please pull over to do any of the following.
-People who TOO-rapidly approach a stop sign, then can't figure out why you assumed they weren't stopping.
The other motorist realized that something was terribly wrong and left the scene rather quickly. I was rather frightened, because I know for a fact that my brother would not have backed down.
As I stated above...stories like that are my justification for not taking any chances.
Is this what you mean by passive aggressive?
Or to give you an example, and I wonder why my brother comes to mind:
He used follow people in his car for no particular reason at all. (And he drove a rather obscure 'pimped out' VW Quantum.) He would derive pleasure from them freaking out or getting aggressive. That game sometimes lasted up to 45 minutes at times.
He remained completely calm and polite. It just pleased his sense of humor.
There's enough dangerous drivers in Florida.
Yes, Brent it is legal to be a LLC ONLY WHEN AT THE SPEED LIMIT
Please show me where the law, the one that I linked to, says that. Please. I'd love to see it.
If I recall, it says "Traffic shall not travel in the left-hand lane unless passing slower moving traffic" NO metion of speed limits.
And, as I havementioned and illustrated, traffic does not always "flow" at the speed limit, and when an LLC going right at the speed limit blocks the traffic flow, traffic no longer ends up flowing even AT the speed limit. This you chose to ignore. You also chose to ignore state laws that I have quoted.
Is it then OK for me to drive drunk at the speed limit? Fail to signal? Fail to dim lights on an Interstate? (In a couple of states it is not technically illegal to drive down the road with your brights on). Is it all OK as long as you go the speed limit?
And your argument about Road Rage not being your fault is nearly as ridiculous. If you were to walk into my Synagogue and spewed anti-semetic remarks, and someone punched you for it, it would entirely be their fault? Is that what you are saying? That it is perfectly OK to provoke people deliberately?
Personally, I like to think that my actions do have causes associated with them, and I try and avoid those deliberate actions which will cause a dangerous or hostile situation.
I would LOVE it if you could provide a direct response. But I wont hold my breath.
Point is, we live in a democracy. Basically, to make this simple, majority rules. Show me ONE other person on edmunds who has EVER sided with your driving style. ONE.
I dont have a hard time getting back over to the right myself. I do, however, have a hard time driving in a manner which not only creates a dangerous situation, but is grossly inconsiderate.
Maybe its' a matter of the "Im more important than everyone else" syndrome?
Bill
I just finish what I am doing and get over as soon as possible.. but Im not going to get jammed into a pack of slow traffic to do so. I get over as soon as it is clear.
If the traffic I am passing is at, say, 73 and I am at, say, 76 (i.e. I am barely passing them)... then I'll speed up a little bit to complete the pass.
Bill
Ghulet: If the slow moving traffic was considerably slow, say 5mph under the limit, then it should at least lower the fine substantially. If it's a case of getting yourself out of danger (and if you can prove it) that should take care of it.
Dinu
Well, last night, I was driving my Grandma's LeSabre, which does not have a permit sticker on it. A friend of mine was over, and his Grand Marquis was parked out on the street. I parked the LeSabre in my own spot, and figured I'd take my friend's spot when he went home. Out on the street, there's a boat on a trailer parked immediately by the entrance to my parking lot. Great for making blind spots in the morning when I go to work. After that, there's enough room to get two big cars in, and then a small utility trailer is parked. The only hitch is there's a fire hydrant there, about 9-10 feet behind the boat, so you can legally only get one car in that spot between the boat and the trailer.
Being conscientious, my friend backed up until he was almost against that trailer, giving plenty of room between his car and the fire hydrant. Well, he goes to leave, only to find an Acura Legend coupe parked right in front of his car, less than a foot off the bumper, and also blocking the fire hydrant. This car belongs to a cop. See now, why people tend to despise the police? But now if that Acura was there before my friend, the driver would park it almost centered between the boat and the trailer, so that nobody could park in front of or in back of him. Isn't that courteous of him?
Well, my friend gets the Grand Marquis out, but getting the LeSabre, which is about 6" longer, in, was a bit more of a challenge. Once it was in, I was about 3" off the Acura's bumper. Good thing though, that there was just a utility trailer back there that I could move, and not another car, or we would've had to do the "Park by feel" routine. Although that could've been fun, in and of itself ;-) I was thinking about driving my '79 New Yorker tonite to give it a run, but if that Acura's still in the same spot, it might be annoying. As long as the LeSabre is, the NY'er is about 3" longer than that!
It still irritates me though...if you're going to block a fire hydrant anyway, why bother backing up right in front of someone's car, blocking them in?!
I noticed that there was enough room in the middle of the road, inbetween the 2 inconsiderate parked vehicles on this thoroughfare. So I drove inbetween them. The lady in the van says "Yo sho do want to get that ca of yours banged up, don't yo?" I stopped inbetween both of them with my window down and appologized for butting into their conversation and laughed out loud! I would have said more...but I didn't want any spit on my car...or worse...
They continued their conversation as I passed and drove on down the road. Some people think that they own the road.
Or how about the loser who decides his car is more valuable than anyone else's and parks his car in 2 spots so that his doors don't get dinged.
Sometimes I just don't understand...........
keith