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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
Dusty
My 02 T&C LX is in reality a well equipped Plymouth Grand Voyager SE. For me, it is nice to be driving a CHRYSLER even though I know it is really a Plymouth. Dropping Voyager watered down Chrysler T&C even more.
The PT Cruiser and Sebring should also be Plymouth. ( I think DaimlerChrysler was more stupid to drop Plymouth than GM was to drop Oldsmobile and Ford was to drop the Edsel).
It is difficult to think of the Odyssey as a luxury vehicle since Honda made so many cheap little econo boxes for many years. However, the Odyssey EX-L looks more luxurious inside to me than the Chrysler T&C Limited. Sad that DaimlerChrysler cheapens the Chrysler label while Honda upgrades Honda vehicles.
It will be curious to see which way DC goes on the next minivan redesign. I think it's clear the minivan has started to garner a lot more attention in the semi-upscale market. I read in Automotive News that Ford has no intention of developing a class-leading minivan. They basically admitted they're content selling mediocre minivans because they don't feel there's any future in minivans. Probably true if it has a Ford label on it, the brand doesn't exactly draw a paying crowd beyond the rental counters. Chrysler certainly has Ford and GM by a long-shot.
I'm currently in the market for a new minivan and the Ody and T&C are my top choices. I love the conveniences & price offered by the T&C, but being passionate about cars, I prefer the performance and perceived quality of the Ody. There are some interesting and very passionate discussions here and I've found most the info useful, but my situation is a little different than most. I'm currently living overseas where I am only able to get about $1K (if that) off of MSRP on the Odyssey, but I can get at least EP on the T&C (if not more). From my calculations, an Ody EX-L with DVD, would cost me at least $3-5K more than a similarly equipped T&C Touring, especially with the new Signature series being offered. Is this difference in cost similar to what most of you are weighing when deciding between the two? After a few years, is the Honda going to be worth that much more than the T&C?
The Signature Series T&C is a great package. I prefer skipping the Nav unit, so the DCX SXT Special Edition would be an even better package (same equipment as T&C Sig minus Nav).
I am very happy with my Odyssey. I paid a few grand more for it because bottom line it had what I wanted. VSC, VCM, good looking interior with the flexability I needed, and the handling/acceleration/braking advantages. DCX Stow and go is the most flexable interior. I like the seat comfort better and also the DVD screen size. The resale on the van should be better than the DCX vans. There are a few problems I keep see popping up on the Odyssey (brake grinding and wind noise from the windshield area) I don't have ethier but the 2006 may be better. Looks like the brake issue is due to the brake pads. Don't think they have released a new material yet.
From my calculations, an Ody EX-L with DVD, would cost me at least $3-5K more than a similarly equipped T&C Touring, especially with the new Signature series being offered. Is this difference in cost similar to what most of you are weighing when deciding between the two? After a few years, is the Honda going to be worth that much more than the T&C?
Residuals are very hard to figure out I looked at 4 sources and 3 of them had the price differance lower than the resale differance another KBB had the price differance higher than the resale differance. The honda should resale pretty close to the differance in price after 5 years @ 15K per year. So you save 4 K up front and get it back at resale. Now after about 7 year and 100K miles the DCX van is probably a better bet cost wise since both will be very depreciated. I hope you've spent so time in both since much of a car buying experience is subjective. My idea of handling/seat comfort/looks/functionality may be diferant from yours. Enjoy your car buying experience! Take your time if you can the 2006 Ody will come down probably after the new year.
The cost difference for me was only about $2500. I gave the T&C a look; the NAV was not worth $1 and was something I wanted on this vehicle. Maybe they've improved that for '06 but the '05 was a joke. Other than that, there wasn't anything glaring that made the T&C a bad choice. But they feel very different out on the road. The Sienna is similar really, I would think those would be more comparable if someone really liked the driving dynamics of either. I really can't put a cost on where I would have picked the T&C over the Ody. I'm not sure I would have bought it at any price difference, simply because I'm not a bargain shopper and the NAV was a total disappointment in the T&C. And I've learned my lesson buying something that's a bargain but not exactly what I want.
It's obvious Honda owners are just much more computer literate, hence the 5715 posts! Whereas most DCX owners are probably too busy taking their inferior products back to the dealership, and have no time to post!!! It's that simple!
See, the "VS" stuff is bad news!!!!!
Any word on when the next gen DCX vans will be released? Any words on engine size/hp, interior trim levels?
It'd really be a contender if they put the 3.5 out of the Pacifica/300 series, but that may cost too much. Maybe at least a top line option for Limited models? It would be a greatly improved competitor for the Odyssey, and blow the current Sienna/Freestar/GM vans out of the water (all under 220 hp)
Now I don't speak for every DCX owner, but in Detroit (The Motor City) the Sarcasm Society holds sessions at the dealership while our vehicles are being completely rebuilt to go another 1000 miles before something else breaks!
Did you see the recent post from 05 Ody owner, who's getting an 06 Sienna? Of course this means every 05 Ody owner will be trading in on a Sienna!! (at least that's what I'll be accused of implying anyways, so might as well go on record actually typing it).
Remind me to send that guy a xmas card!!!
Sorry Honda guys, but I smell a rat - no, not you socalawd!!! I went back to check this Hondaconvert guy's recent postings....and find it odd that an actual Honda owner would be posting soo much in the Toyota areas?????
No I think he's on the up and up. I remember him looking for a car. He was having doubts before he bought! So after a few issues(I think it was door noise?) I think he has buyers remorse. But he's still not buying a DCX so don't get that card yet!!
DC minivans are quieter, smoother riding, more comfort items while the Ody has the "Magic Seat".
Fast forward: 2006 GC SXT interior looks cheaper than Ody interior but is more attractive exterior than Ody, both have separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger, both have 60/40 split fold into the floor 3rd row, both have cast wheels, both have power sliding doors both sides...but DC power doors are much better designed than the Ody. The Ody has power windows that go up and down while GC SXT has power rear side windows that open and close. (Sienna has both).
The Ody has a 5 speed AT while GC SXT has only 4 speed. Ody theoretically should provide better gas mileage but in the real world, my 02 T&C LX has provided much better gas mileage than my son's 01 Ody EX.
GC SXT also has a nice, complete overhead console with compass/outside temperature and trip computer. Ody EX has outside temp indicator.
Ody EX will cost $ 4,000 MORE than the GC SXT from dealers in my area.
Just checked Edmund's Used Car pricing of 2002 Odd EX and 2002 T&C LX for my zip code and 37,000 miles. T&C LX trade in $10,794 vs Odd EX $16,125. At 4 years age, the Odd trade in difference is $ 5331. I paid $14,000 15 months ago which is $3,206 depreciation. The original owner paid just under $24,000 while a buyer of a new 2002 Odd EX would have paid about $28,000.
According to Edmunds, an Odyssey depreciates fewer dollars at 4 years of age than a DaimlerChysler minivan. If kept forever, the DC minivan will depreciate less since it cost less to purchase new.
Yep thats a fine waste of time. Most aren't even problems. There are like 10(see cabin filter/ phil griffin) of the last 20 about air cabin replacement, now is that really a problem??. Some are post involving dennisctc(33 posts), hansienna(8),hayneldan(6), socalawd(12) and I don't even have a issue!! There are also 11062 post about buying price and experience. That compares to 6060 for Toyota and 77 posts for DCX vans. I gues noone cares if you buy a DCX van!
I wonder how many people actually use the sliding door windows on the Honda/Mazda/Toyota? Seems with windows open and passengers in place, it's be windy and noisy?
How did you find 33 posts for me in the "Honda Ody Owners Problem" area?
We use ours mainly for pre-cooling the vehicle quickly. You can roll all the windows down with the remote, so normally when it's hot I hit the button from the house/store/etc. so the windows are all down for a bit before we load up. With those huge windows down, it seems to help a lot.
What's the difference?? I don't recall anything standing out when I was comparing them.
Something related to location of the motor for the power sliding doors.
I think I've read that the motors are actually IN the DCX doors.
We use ours mainly for pre-cooling the vehicle quickly.
I open both doors and rear power hatch completely via keyfob and crack sunroof.
He's on this forum he posted on 10/8 he's probably seen 10 conversations here about the almighty Odyssey Problems and Solutions Forum. I believe he's already looked there, if not I'd be very suprised.
I resent the remarks about DCX owners not being able to or caring to post about their problems.
You shouldn't just a matter of simple logic. You get three times as many posts per/day on the problem and solution page from a van that gets better CR ratings and has better customer satisfaction. Which may have 800,000 vans on the road. Now DCX has 10 million do you really think that is the right ratio. Some people use the internet and some don't.
read both problem forums, and only post when someone deliberately slams DCX vans.
I thought you were answering minicoopercat did he slam DCX vans??
My answer to why are there so many pricing posts on the Odyssey prices paid forum is not many Honda dealers want to deal, so if you want a Honda you have to search to find the "best" price. DCX dealers are willing to discount so you don't have to chase all over a city or states to get a "fair" price.
Oh I go into the dealership and just hope they give me a fair price. Wow this makes sense to me. I should really not research anything and hope to be given a good deal every time! I feel very enlightened. BTW I always want the BEST PRICE!!!!
Just do a search under dennisctc of the forum it will give you posts you've been involed in. The total number is post you made and responses. I think this is fair because people wouldn't have posted without your initial post.
Have A Great Day!
Tom
The biggest thing keeping me from buying the Ody is the price. Because of my situation, I'd have to pay at least $1K higher than the average buyer. Upon further calculations, the difference between the T&C and similarly equipped Ody would be more like $6-8K. That's harder to justify, especially since I do like the features the Chrysler has to offer.
I have driven the Chrysler. I wasn't really disappointed, it drove good, as I expected really. I'm hoping to get a chance to drive the Honda soon. Until then, I can just continue to compare specs, styling and user opinions. Thanks to everyone for the replies and valuable information ~
Don't know what situation you'd have to be in to pay $1k higher than the average buyer,unless you're in some type of trouble with the IRS, or your best friend is a car salesman who won't give you a good deal... but heck...we're curious folks here at Edmunds...don't be a tease...be a cool cat and tell us whats up with you having to pay $1K more for your Ody.
Now I don't speak for every DCX owner, but in Detroit (The Motor City) the Sarcasm Society holds sessions at the dealership while our vehicles are being completely rebuilt to go another 1000 miles before something else breaks!
Can DCX owners bring a visitor/driver of a different brand? Ha... I'm actually pretty sarcastic myself, so its all in good fun.
I think I heard of a similar support group at Ford, called FOA (Freestar owners anonymous). There was only one member though, because no one else bought the darned things!
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Not quite, we try to keep them at least a year, but that's one for each of us. However, I would like to find a vehicle (at least for the wife) that she could keep for a few years.
Don't know what situation you'd have to be in to pay $1k higher than the average buyer,unless you're in some type of trouble with the IRS, or your best friend is a car salesman who won't give you a good deal
I live overseas and I'm not able to get any deals on the Honda, in fact, I have to pay about a $1K premium to get it. With the Chrysler, I still can't get as great as deal as most of you but with rebates and/or EP, I can get fairly close. Of course, shipping is an additional charge with both vehicles.
Unfortunately with living overseas, leasing is not an option.
Refer back to my post #4794 and before. In actuality you have to spend almost double the money for the Ody to realize a cash advantage of the Dodge.
Regards,
Dusty
looks like it's time for a leap of faith I would say it pretty close with the bad deal you get overseas. I went to kelly Blue book to find the info Dusty had because all my sources say for comparable models the Ody returns more dollars in trade in differance after 5 than the diffearance in initial price.
A ody Ex with a MSRP of 28745.00 and a NCBBV of 27595.00 has a Cost of ownership over 5 years of 31,510.00
A Chrysler Town and country Touring with a MSRP of 28,485.00 and a NCBBV of26,262.00.
Had a 5 year ownership of 34,202.00 so the cost of owning a Touring for 5 years is estimated at almost 2700.00 more even it was 1300 dollars less to purchase.
The main differance being depreciation.
You can look at TCO or best resale value all sources will tell ya Honda Odyssey equiped similarly will give you a better ownership value.
link title
Years ago, in the DCX test garage, I saw a Caravan outfitted with new IP and integrated GPS....much like the Honda with the extra hood on top of IP. This was about 2000!! It looked production intent, guess it wasn't. It might have been a supplier mockup (Yazaki) to show capability, sell IP assembly to DCX.
The screen is small, though. Like, 5".
The T&C system reminded me of some very early NAV systems, I think DC found a container load of these somewhere and thought they'd stick them in the T&C. Of course the NAV offered on my Dodge Ram was horrible as well. It required loading the DVD just to map something, and taking it out if you want to listen to music. And they thought I was going to pay $1,500 for that??
The $2,000 for the Ody NAV also includes a rear backup camera.
I thing the dash looks good. I just got done putting some 303 on it and was thinking how good it looks. Again another thing where some like it and some don't.
I'd say Honda did a much better job on the styling/execution of the new Civic with NAV. It looks a lot cleaner, blends in etc....
Now that I have the Garmin GPS, i believe they're more of a gimmick and regret buying mine even. $1400 or $2000 is too much for a sometime usual gadget, unless you might use it for job etc...
That is opinion. My opinion is that is stays close to the windshield (line of sight) so I dont have to avert my eyes far from the road. Quite handy!
When you get talking $30k-$40k for a minivan, you lose me! For that kinda money there are many options available, even Acura's MDX etc...
I'm sure it fine. As for the 7 inch screen most kids won't complain. There just happy they have something. But it is 65% more surface area. And that's a very good thing for my son who sits way back.
When I went out shopping for vans I looking for an Ody or Sienna but the value of the T&C sold me. With a 2K rebate, afiliate rewards pricing, and 0% interest for 5 years my T&C was a bundle less than a comparable Ody or Sienna. If I was able to pay cash the gap would have narrowed and I may have opted for the Ody or Sienna. But I dont have 30K+ cash to lay down
Yes it's nice to get a good deal. I do think I got a good value on my Ody. I really enjoy the car and the price was well worth it.