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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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I'm glade to hear that you have had less repairs then we have. Let me ask though, what repairs have you had done, big or small, up to 174K?
Also, You are comparing a car to a minivan. (Apples and oranges.) I agree, the power window motors and regulators should not have stop working around 37K. The front suspension bushings and links should have lasted longer. (These two problems are well known with this generation minivan.) The bolt for the thermostat housing breaking off inside the engine block should not have happened and I'm not even sure why it happened. (It was an easy fix and the thermostat did not need to be changed. I choose to change it since I had to take apart the thermostat housing.) The water pump being replaced is ?. Not sure what broke with the emergency brake. (Pedal or cable.) We apply it every time we park, since we've owned it. (Most people don't even use their emergency brake. So, the life expectancy is questionable.) Even with these minor repairs on our minivan, I still feel that it has been very reliable. I have heard of more costly repairs and repairs in general on later model minivans with less miles then ours on Daimlerchrysler, Honda and Toyota. Some problems that couldn't be solved or solved only after multiple visits to the dealer. Also, keep in mind, that this is a first year model. There are always going to be bugs needing to be worked out on any new model, no matter who made it. :shades:
At 131k miles, I had my main cooling fan (radiator fan) replaced due to motor failure. My brake master cylinder developed a very slow leak around 155k miles - had that replaced. Most recently, I had a developing crack in my radiator, at 172k miles. While it never ran hot, it likely would have shortly had I not had the thing replaced. Both of these repairs were in the $300 range each.
The suspension, rear brake shoes/drums, front rotors (not pads), tranny, alternator, exhaust system, etc... are are original, from purhcase date Nov 12, 1995.
I certainly realize that I was comparing two very different vehicles, but it seems like things like the emergency brake (my whole immediate family uses the brake every time - I was taught it was part of driving, like putting the car in park and wearing a seatbelt. I use it regardless of where I'm parked) shouldn't break so soon.
I didn't intend to make a specific rally for Honda, its just that the only older vehicle I've ever owned was this Honda, and it seemed like in comparison, your Chrysler wasn't aging very well. Every make will have its share of issues. Honda had V6 transmission problems in Acura 2001-2003 3.2CL Coupes, 1999 Odysseys, 2003-2004 Accord V6s. Toyota had an infamous engine sludge problem in the 1990s, and seems to flub its most recent launches (2007 Camry V6 tranny failures, New Tundra 5.7L engine problems...).
It's not limited to one make, rather, just the opposite.
Chrysler today leapfrogged every other car maker by extending its powertrain warranty on every new car and truck it sells to the life of the vehicle. The warranty will apply to the entire powertrain including the engine, transmission/transaxle, drive shafts, and axles. The new warranty goes into effect today, July 26, 2007 and applies to all new 2007s that are on the dealer lots as well as 2008 models.
The warranty covers all parts and labor as long as the owner brings the car in to a Chrysler dealer at least once every five years for a free powertrain inspection. Apparently, the only fly in the ointment is that the new warranty applies to the original owner and is not transferable. If the car is sold within the first three years, the warranty reverts to the previous 3 year/36,000 mile coverage for subsequent owners.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I was a "Ford" guy for many years; in 2001 I bought an Accord so I'm now a "Honda" guy. Now with a baby on the way I would like a mini-van, & have been looking around. To my surprise there are quite a few folks whom are not happy with the Odyssey (for 1 reason or another). Also to my surprise there's quite a few folks whom are happy with their T&C.
Any of you folks wish to shed some light on a mini-van newb; I've also checked out a new 2008 T&C - very nice - reminds me alot of the Odyssey, but I don't know if it would be worth the extra $$$ (no rebates nor financing specials for the 2008) when compared to the 2007 T&C.
Any info would be great, thanks!
FMichael.
Of course, you can never go wrong with a Sienna or Odyssey, but the T&C is a really good deal these days...
I would test drive the T&C, Sienna, and Odyssey, and determine which one is your favorite, and if the Sienna and Odyssey feel like they are worth the extra $$$ to you.
Then, pick the one you like best, and buy it.
The 08 Chryslers have addressed those shortcomings.
I have an 07 Honda Odyssey and love it.
For me, the allure of a good deal (sadly) tends to override the extra safety features of the Ody/Sienna...
The '08 Chrysler vans look very nice though; and discounts should start appearing soon after.
The Korean vans (Entourage/Sedona) may be worth a look, as they are slightly cheaper than the Japanese and carry all of those safety features...
When purchasing a honda this time, albeit not a minvan as we outgrew the need for that, we were delighted at all the new safety feautures, not to mention the bells and whistles that come with it. Of course, reliability was key this time as in our limited experience (us and a few friends) we did not find the caravn a pleasant experience.
Maybe some past reliability issues have forced chrysler to make sure an awesome powertrain warranty. They rate tops in consumer buy for their price but reliability has been spotty.
I say, if you cannot get anything else due to financial constraints, a caravn is better than nothing at all if you MUST have a bigger passenger vehicle.
hope that wasn't so convoluted....
Maybe some past reliability issues have forced chrysler to make sure an awesome powertrain warranty. They rate tops in consumer buy for their price but reliability has been spotty.
I say, if you cannot get anything else due to financial constraints, a caravn is better than nothing at all if you MUST have a bigger passenger vehicle.
A caravan is better than nothing? i have a 2005 DGC and have no problems with it at all. I bought it in Dec. of 2004. Only recall on it was a possible pinched hose. I haven't owned any vehicle this long with all the electrical extras that this vehicle has without having it back to the dealer for something.
With Chrysler's life time warranty, six speed auto transmission, all the safety features Honda's have, plus the gobs of new stuff they put on the 2008 minivan, I think they will run away from Honda with this minivan. There doesn't seem anything that Chrysler forgot to put on it. How can you beat a lifetime warranty if you keep it?
glad it has worked out for you. For some of us with mid to late 90's models, we could have used that extended warranty.
I will admit some people love their caravan. My statement was meant for those that must pay a lower price for the van and might have desired a different make. Gotta admit that some people have certain makes that are their favorites and their is nothing wrong with that.
My girlfriend just got a Town and COuntry, might be some kind of touring (is that their top of the line now?). It is gorgeous. Tons of bells and whistles, particularly for the price. And the warranty! They really have come a long way with trying to come back and be #1 minivan again. I thought I read some articles that they were losing sales to other vans.
Anyway, my friend has already had a repair for a gas leak (about a 3 month old new van) and I think she'll take it back to repair that same problem.
My girlfriend just got a Town and COuntry, might be some kind of touring (is that their top of the line now?). It is gorgeous. Tons of bells and whistles, particularly for the price. And the warranty! They really have come a long way with trying to come back and be #1 minivan again. I thought I read some articles that they were losing sales to other vans.
Anyway, my friend has already had a repair for a gas leak (about a 3 month old new van) and I think she'll take it back to repair that same problem.
Sorry to hear about her gas leak. But it won't cost her anything to fix it. If she keeps that van for 15-20 years, the drive train will always be covered. Not sure if the Town & Country is their top model or not. I have a Dodge.
I kept my 1993 Eagle for 11 years. I plan to keep this one for at least seven, as that is when this warranty runs out. That's four more years to go. I'd like to get a 2008, but it doesn't make economic sense right now.
Most of what you see in the brochure (I have it too) is for a loaded vehicle or much more equipped vehicle than the base model. In the base model I saw at the dealer, almost none of the great new features are included. The marketing hype is very misleading because you have to buy a lot of "options" to get the cool new stuff or at least get anything besides the base model.
The regular console is nothing close to the premium and looks even worse than previous yrs. 2 glove boxes are about it on the base. And I do not recall seeing anywhere that one is cooled. That's a feature on other Chrysler/Dodge's. Not even on their fully loaded minivan that runs between $40-$42K. Quite a bit more than the base, wouldn't you say?
I'm waiting to see a fully loaded T&C Limited with a sunroof. With a sunroof, you can't get that 1 piece overhead with the monitors & storage bins according to the brochures fine print. Must get 2 separate roof storage systems. So not sure if that will have the cool "mood lighting".
The base has a bench for the second row that doesn't fold in to the storage bins in the floor but has a couple of cupholders you pull out from under the middle of the bench. No big deal.
The 3rd row is comfortable and the vehicle is roomy.
The manager in the store was debating if he should even put this base model in the store because of how blah it looked inside. I saw it the night they were having the sweepstakes to win cars. This time around they had no food or drinks or anything at all. Overall, a disappointing visit.
I sure hope the options and other models are a big step up to dress things up inside. The base interior is mediocre looking and looks like it's best for car rental places.
The outside front and rear views are nice. Side profile is just OK. I know the all the chrome like stuff on the Limited mirrors, door handles, body side molding and possible roof rack will enhance it a lot. But that STARTS at $36.4K. Or a Touring w/ M package for $33605 with a good amount of new stuff.
Check out the website - http://www.chrysler.com/en/2008/town_country/index.html
I was surprised that the glove boxes didn't have a light and neither were cooled as in some of Chrysler's other cars.
It was to light to tell if all the door switches had lights, the guy said he thought they did. The cup trays in the dash are much stronger than the old ones. The center console is much, much better than the old ones too. The leather looks to be a better grade than on the old model and I loved the way the sun screens roll into the window in the back sliding doors. I didn't see an over head console in it. The salesman said it was incorporated into the dash. I couldn't believe the extra room in the engine compartment. It had the 3.8 in it, same as mine. But there was much more room to work on. There would be no trouble getting to the back plugs on this van with this engine. They have a bigger engine this year, I think he said a 4.1, but they didn't have it on the lot yet. Mileage on the sticker wasn't any higher than on the old one,(I know they changed they way they rate them now) But I thought it would be higher with a six speed tranny.
We bought a 2002 Dodge Caravan - mainly because we wanted something we could (at the time) pay CASH for and be done with.
Fast forward a few years and I have since found out that there are 14 million Chrysler vehicles affected by faulty seat belts - and Chrysler REFUSES to do a recall. People have been ejected and either died or received spinal cord injuries. Chrysler has known about this since the 90's and even has settled lawsuits with families for MILLIONS of dollars - but still no recall.
The NHTSA doesn't seem to think there's an issue either.
Here's info about this mess:
Here are the vehicles affected by this:
http://www.unsafebelts.com/known.cfm
Here are some basic facts:
http://www.unsafebelts.com/faq.shtml
Here are more links from other sources:
http://unsafebelts.com/primetime/
http://www.seatbeltdefects.com/gen3/index.html
http://www.kirotv.com/weblinks/2148969/detail.html
http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=764&scid=91
http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2003/03...ts_030331.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...54C0A9649C8B63
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HC8NfOtRFI
This link has the info half way down:
http://www.daimlerchryslervehicleproblems.com/
Needless to say, our van is one of the models affected so here we are looking at Oddyseys. Should have done that the first time around!
Did you try swiveling the seats? How's the legroom? Tnink adults have enough legroom if sitting opposite each other in 2nd and 3rd row? I read that if you swivel the seat, the front seat has to be moved up some. How's the front seat legroom with the seat moved forward?
Sounds like maybe the car wasn't ready to drive yet. If you test drove it, what can you say about the ride?
This one had a sticker price of $32,000.00 It has the leather seats, all power including the third row folding seat and tail gate. GPS, with backup warning. Adjustable peddles, Eight way power driver and passenger seats. Halo lighting, Infinity sound system, with steering wheel mounted audio controls, movable rear windows, with fold down sun screens. A nice moveable center console, with two cup holders for back seat passengers.About the only thing it didn't have that I noticed, was the television, sun roof and the DVD monitors. With them gone, it just gives you more storage. Not sure if this one had the heated seats or not.
They are trying to make them LOOK nicer, but they really should work on quality and safety. I'd much rtaher pay in the $30's for a bare bones Odyssey or Sienna and feel I got that quality and safety.
Just to bring some info to the table (something that may not have been re-hashed in awhile), here is where the pricing table of the Odyssey currently stands.
$25,645 LX
$28,695 EX
$31,095 EX-L
$32,695 EX-L w/DVD
$34,895 EX-L w/DVD and NAV
$36,895 Touring
$39,095 Touring w/DVD and NAV*
*2008 will represent the mid-model change for the Odyssey, in which the Touring will come only equipped WITH DVD and NAV.
It will also feature VCM on all models, tri-zone temperature control on lower models than before, and a few other features that I can't seem to remember right now. For more info, check out Vtec.net and look for the Honda press release info for 2008 in the rumors and news section.
They are trying to make them LOOK nicer, but they really should work on quality and safety. I'd much rtaher pay in the $30's for a bare bones Odyssey or Sienna and feel I got that quality and safety.
What massive recall? I haven't heard of any.
I think Chrysler has come a long way with quality control. Have you looked at the recalls on Honda's transmissions from 1999-2002? Some of those people have traded trannys 2,3, and 4 times. Most of Chrysler's tranny problems were garages using the wrong fluid.
My 2005 Dodge GC has had one recall in two and a half years and that was only for a possible pinched hose, that I had looked at when I got my oil changed. With all the electrical stuff I have on that van, everything has worked as designed from day one.
You can't beat a lifetime warranty on engine and drive train, if you keep that van.
It's got many features on the new one, no other van has and all the safety features Honda and Toyota has. I think Chrysler will do quite well selling them.
Now I'm psyched to see the Limited or even something with leather.
Your seatbelts are set up opposite of mine. My front two seatbelts have the red release button flush with the retainer. All of my PASSENGER belts have the red release button protruding from the retainer. These are the ones that are the GEN 3 belts.
We have also noticed that are daughter's car seat had completely UNBUCKLED from the van a few times - for no apparent reason at all. We were thankful we did not get into a wreck during one of those times.
When I do the ball test on our REAR Gen 3 belts - they do NOT pass. Again, my 2 front seats are good (pass the ball test with flying colors)... it's my back seat belts I'm worried about (where my CHILDREN are).
Regardless of my degrees (which I do have), I'm going to draw my own conclusion about the information I have found.
We can respectfully disagree.
I assume you're a mature, respectful adult - engineering degrees and all.
All it takes for the passenger (GEN 3) seatbelts to unbuckle is for the red release button to become FLUSH with the retainer. We're talking less than an inch compression.
In addition, it doesn't take much pressure at all for the buckle to release. During a collision, a loose cell phone, or child's toy... or even an elbow or foot could accidentally release the seat belt and have a child ejected from the vehicle. (And it's already happened to other families. Chrysler has settled millions of dollars in lawsuits, but still refuses to do a recall.)
My driver and side passenger seat belts are different. It takes MUCH MORE pressure to release them. Also, the red release button has to be forced INTO the retainer pretty DEEP for the buckle to release.
If you look at the list of models affected, you will see that my vehicle (02 Caravan) only has Gen 3 belts in the rear, which is consistent with what I'm finding.
http://www.unsafebelts.com/known.cfm
I believe only your rear belts are affected too.
Is it POSSIBLE my children will be ejected during a wreck? YES.
Is it PROBABLE? Probably not.
But after obtaining this knowledge and doing my own testing with my own seatbelts, I am going to be a VERY cautious driver until we get this van replaced with an Oddy.
Each family needs to weigh their own risks vs probability.
My family is choosing to replace our vehicle as soon as possible. Until then, I'm going to limit projectiles in our van and drive as cautious as I can.
(Although, it's not me I'm worried about driving... it's all the other idiots out there on the road.) :mad: :sick:
2008 T&C Pricing, with destination:
$23,190 LX
$28,430 Touring
$36,400 Limited
The LX & Touring models have three option pakcages each plus individual options to play with.
With the trims/features/options of minivans ranging from $22k to $45k, it's hard to compare any particular vehicle trim level to antoher. I may regret it, but True Delta's comparison is a reasonable tool to commonize features between competing models. The MSRP of the 2008 Chrysler minivans undercut Honda and Toyota on a feature by feature basis except for powertrains of the base models.
Allan
Best Regards,
Shipo
allan
While none of the above are a really big deal, if you're 400 miles from the nearest large town the last thing you need is a radiator hose or some such to go sour on you. Another thing to consider is when is your next oil change due? It's kind of a pain to have to stop for an oil change mid trip.
Another good thing to do is to evaluate the condition of your spare tire. Once again, getting a flat in town is no big deal, but of you're a long way from nowhere and the rubber on your spare is old and cracked, you may very well not make it to the next tire shop.
FWIW, I took two 2,000+ mile trips this summer in our old 1998 Grand Caravan with 150,000 miles on the clock and had absolutely no worries about it going the distance. Said another way, it's really no big deal for a well maintained older car to go on long road trips. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Anyway, sorry for the rambling but many thanks. The rad flush is due and so is brake fluid.
Allan
Received a mailer from a local Dodge dealer offering a $19.95 oil & filter change and a coupon for a free 23 point safety check. Dealer did a good and honest job and said low front brakes, nothing else. I then asked them to check the suspension since everything is still original except struts and shocks which I replaced at 143,000. Dealer said bushings are worn. Brake job at dealer $200, bushings $200. Paid only $19.95 for the oil change.
Have had only 1 brake job -- at 105,000 with Midas who gives free pads for car life. Replaced front brakes for $90 instead of $200 with Midas's free pad replacement warranty (still pay for labor though). Said they can do bushings for $150 but it is not unsafe if I do not replace them, just noisy and perhaps bouncier. If my new van does arrive in time I won't replace them.
Within this last month we have taken this high mileage van on three 200 mile trips. Goes fine. Suspension is worn but adequate.
If you have maintained the vehicle reasonably well (and I am not NEARLY as good as some of these posters) you should be fine.
So if things work out, husband will trade it in for a toyota truck, as old as maybe the van or slightly newer, but hopefully we'll have better luck with it.
Wish us well the next few months that we can somehow budget that in.
Then she said her son was pinned in the sliding door and her husband had to work frantically to get that child out, not to mention the dog being pinned. At least it was a big dog I know, not funny, but I can't help it.
She also said her brakes are worn. She has to brake about a block away. LOL Well, that's what she said. So more time off work to get that fixed. What gets me is that this car is newer than my car which I bought March 07 and she's had that many problems.
My van is a 98 and it started having problems within a week or two of having it, but darn, it wasn't as many as that. Not sure what quality control is like these days, but they failed on her van.
sigh.....it stinks when all you can afford is this. I told her to force Chrysler to take it back, but she won't. I know her and she'll keep dealing with all that. I'd be a wreck right about now.
So yeah, at least I can hope and pray we'll be rid of ours soon. The phenomenal deal we got early on on it has been spent towards repairs. I won't even count the regular maintenance. Right now we are holding it together with spit until we can get something else.
you sound like us with our first dodge. We have a 93 shadow and our 16 year old is now driving that. We bought it when he was 2 years old. We kept it in great shape and other than the typical chrysler crap paint, it's been good to us.
Good luck to everyone else on their car buying.
Then she said her son was pinned in the sliding door and her husband had to work frantically to get that child out, not to mention the dog being pinned. At least it was a big dog I know, not funny, but I can't help it.
She also said her brakes are worn. She has to brake about a block away. LOL Well, that's what she said. So more time off work to get that fixed. What gets me is that this car is newer than my car which I bought March 07 and she's had that many problems.
Leaked so bad she had to call the fire dept. because it pooled up in her driveway? I would think most of it would have run down a driveway onto the street. If not, all she would have had to do is hose it off.
Having to break a block ahead to get it to stop in time?
I have to wonder if she's telling you the whole truth. That sliding door has a sensor on it that will make the door pop open if anyone touches the edge of it while it's closing. Same with the rear hatch. The whole thing sounds fishy
Now, there's been some changes in our family and my wife wants another minivan (she's currently driving a Subaru Outback wagon). But, I have mixed feeling about buying another DC minivan because of all the bad press about drive train issues. I'm not worried about the smaller stuff because I can do almost all of the other work (brakes, struts, etc) myself. I'm leaning towards the Honda Odyssey. Either one will have to be a used vehicle, but the Odyssey's, are $5K-$8K more expensive than the DC products for comparable years and mileage. I can find a low mileage 1-2 year old T&C for $12K-$14K, while a year older Odyssey seems to be running more like $18K. Should I gamble on a DC product, figuring I have $5K-$8K to thow at it, or go with the more reliable Odyssey. Note that we intend to keep this van as long or longer than we had or Caravan, so longevity is a major consideration, not trade-in value. :confuse:
They have a really poor history of failures. There was a class action lawsuit for the '99-'01 models. The '02-'04 models also have numerous failures reported.
The '05-'06 models have the same transmission as the '02-'04's so don't expect longevity there.
'07+ Odysseys have a redesigned 4-shaft tranny shared with the Pilot & Ridgeline trucks. Have to wait for reliablity data on these models.
Overall, if you can afford one, I think you are better off with the Honda. They drive like new after 150k+ miles & are worth a good trade when you're finshed. I know that re-sale is not a factor in your decision but it is nice to see at least $5k for an 8 year old van (We got $5k for a 2000 Odyssey with 165k miles).
That snow did a number on the underside of the vehicle. I don't know if other cars have issues with rust and snow damage like ours did. I kept it garaged and hosed it quite a bit, but darn! Of course, we have a 93 shadow and the paint on that was never terrific.
Sensors do occasionally malfunction, but that I had heard from a friend who had an imported van. I just have never trusted power sliding doors myself. Us getting power windows was a big step for me
I spoke to another close friend of mine who has a caravan one year newer than mine. We almost wet our pants laughing because all the stuff going wrong with mine is happening to her right now. Luckily she has a friend of a relative who can fix them for cost of parts. I was afraid to know what it would cost for us. We just give up, kwim?
Luckily dh was able to find a used Tacoma that he wanted and they were willing to take the van. I feel like we cheated them in the deal. ROFL.
Thank God it never left the kids and I stranded like it did my one girlfriend. I had to pick her up an hour away in the middle of the night at -45 degrees northern NY winter. I will say this, it was practical when the kids were little, when it wasn't in the shop, of course But I did find out that my van could hold 3 half frozen kids, two addtl adults and the tow driver on the floor. yes, the tow drivers truck wouldn't kick over. rofl
I had to drive him up to Watertown to get some addtl fuel for his hydraulic lift maybe, can't recall, and then drive him back to his truck and it STILL would not start. But my little caravan kept on ticking
But I'll pay a little extra maintaining the Honda and hopefully won't have the repairs like the van. I wonder if it has to do where they were manufactured, or just that myself and two very close friends got lemons, altho we bought ours in different states, NC for us, OK for one and MO for the other? hmmm.....
I think in the end it's going to come down to money, or more properly, value. Unless I stumble upon an Odyssey who's price difference is significantly less than the $5K-$8K I mentioned in my earlier post, I'm going with a low mileage T&C.