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Ok - anyway.... I was/am now in Pennsylvania where the salt isn't so bad - so I replaced my entire subframe . I have since had my exhaust fully replaced, new catalytic converter, rear struts, numerous wheel bearings. Always stayed on top of oil changes. It has never run so well. Quiet and getting about 25 mpg. Heading into year 13 with about 115,000 miles. I want 200,00 miles.....
So here is my question.....I have about $800 in credits from using a Subaru credit card. My last official Dealer Maintenance was at 60,000 mile interval. I don't want to throw the money away but I do want to prevent problems. I am about to contact my dealer to bring it in. I need an oil change but what should I tell them to do? I don't think I ever had the belts changed. They look ok. One thing for sure my a/c is on the fritz only get about 5 minutes of cool air when I start up. Change fluids? - which ones? It is a manual transmission.
But how do I best approach the dealer - are there things you would just tell them to do or leave it up to them? (BTW, my check engine light is always on but I don't believe in them
Any tips or phrasing would be great. I do have a slow leak in one wheel. If I was made of money I would buy 4 steels wheels - I am all about function - never care about how my car looks - just care about performance.
Ok - that's it - I am sure I forgot some stuff but will check in later. Thanks Everyone Peter.
Based on what you've written, I'd go thru the maintenance manual and see what's recommended for 120,000 miles and pick the items you'd like the dealer to perform.
My mechanic and the dealer both replace the water pump, timing belt tensioner, and "fan" belts when they change the timing belt. You might check your receipt to see if the belts were already replaced.
Personally, I do a lot of my own maintenance. But I don't do timing belts on Subarus. The last time I took it to a dealer was to add freon to the a/c...paid with Subaru bucks.
Be ready for all the "recommendations" for additional work they'll want to perform! Good luck.
I am going through my list now to specify what I want them to do. As I said I have credits but don't want to go crazy - the car has never run so well. Plus, I have a friend that owns a Midas and I will let him inspect my brakes, wheel bearings, boots, ball joints. For now I want all connections and fluids replaced; engine is looking a bit old. Timing Belt already replaced. Any suggestions/deletions welcome.
Here is my to do list and have two questions - the thermostat and general lubrication:
Rotate Tires
Change Oil/filter
Change front and rear differential oil.
Change Radiator coolant and replace all hoses.
(Should I have them change the thermostat or if it ain't broke....)
Replace power steering fluids and hoses.
Replace brake fluid and and hoses.
Change all drive belts p/s, a/c and alternator - throw old ones in car.
Charge the a/c system - not as cold as usual.
Change Spark plugs (and wires?).
Replace fuel filter - inspect the lines.
Replace Air filter.
Replace battery cables.
Right rear door needs lubrication...should I have them do other areas?
Thanks
Peter
Thanks again...
This past year I have pulled two units down, 94 auto & 97 manual, down for head jobs from our fleet and have one more, 03 manual, on the books due for this headache. I plan all of the maintenance work at one time. If you pay attention to what goes on with other units like this, you will pull way past the 300k mark.
So, what I say here goes for everyone. 105K pull the OEM belt and replace it along with crank and cam seals. 210K pull everything off and replace. idler rollers, belt, seals, water pump and tensioner. Change your coolant and stick to Subaru's coolant and additive. Now if you have a non highway unit, you may have already had a dance with the head gaskets. If you have not, always watch for the red flag of temperature gauge going up as you increase load. As long as she holds steady, you are fine. Make sure you know where your normal mark is on that gauge.
Change the oil, change the tranny and rear axle fluids yourself. Easy to do and you know it is done! When you drain out the fluid, measure what comes out to know how much to put back in. Too many times someone was paid to change/check the diff and they did not. I come along at a major maintenance point and check to find out they had not! Needless to say, my client fires that shop shortly afterwards. Given you are in the north, I would consider the proper synthetic gear lube over the regular stuff. Also, if you are not running it, consider synthetic oil for the engine if you are not losing it out of the rear oil galley plate. Look for leaks between engine and trans. As for the tire, Slime it! Look for that at Wal-Mart. It will seal up any leak in the tread area. It will not seal bead or side wall leaks. Can't balance the tire afterwards is the only problem. But from what I am seeing in terms of wear here. That does not matter.
If you can, save your Subaru points for the dreaded head job when it, if it happens. The next one I do will be the 03 which will have work on all sides of the motor since it leaks from the rear oil galley plate, due for T belt change and everything else up front, and is know to have head gaskets beginning to fail. I plan to make that job real easy and just pull the dang motor out to deal with it. Being a manual trans, that will need a new clutch as well because the old one is oil soaked. Oh, this unit I believe is about 250K miles sitting 700 miles away from me. Always best to group repairs as much as possible. Exactly why my hair has not gone totally gray yet like my brothers! Otherwise you find yourself going back and tearing stuff back down to do something else you wish you did the first time.....like that $40 water pump! Oh, I have learned to cuss better than a sailor over those times! So since I plan to behave like a Lady, I change those headaches out. Like I say when it comes to major work, if in doubt whip out the new part. On the other hand like a 89 DOHC Volvo sitting here right now, there comes a time to no longer hold 'em, just fold 'em.
I realize it is low mileage but it is driven 6 days out of 7; 11 miles to work. Long trips ~ 4 times a year - 1000 miles or more. Never had any leaks. I'm hoping since I got screwed with the undiagnosed broken timing belt tensioner and the rotted out undercarriage - I will be given a dispensation on the dreaded head gasket replacement. I did have the timing belt changed but not the water pump.
And while I have done my share of driveway oil changes back in the day. Never did a differential change. And while it might not be a mind- blower....I'd need to get the thing off the ground. Not as skinny as I used to be. If I wanted to do all I listed myself - do I buy a Chilton's manual and two ramps? But shouldn't the car be totally level when draining fluids like differentials? How do you get the car evenly off the ground - safely?
Listen, I'm not bitchin' - just asking.
The accessory belt work worries me - not sure I would tighten belts properly. Is it really that easy?
How about my a/c. It only lasts for about 10 minutes now. Is that just a case of adding freon?
Leave a working thermostat alone?
Any thoughts will be appreciated. Maybe I'd just have them do the belts and a/c charge for now????
Thanks
Peter
You convinced me about doing more stuff myself. I will hold my SubaruBucks for now and just have them perform an Oil Change tomorrow. But as I noted, the after market repair manuals seem to be lacking. I will definitely need a go-to source if I start doing more of my own work.
I have a 2002 Impreza OBS - I found a couple of places on the web with exploded diagrams but not much text. I need a bit of hand holding.
Where do you guys go when you need assistance on how to tackle a task?
Thanks
Peter
If you can't find a paper manual, scout around for an electronic version.
John/Fresno
Don't know if this link will work properly or not.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBARU-OFFICIAL-FACTORY-SERVICE-REPAIR-MANUAL-MANY-MODEL- S-YEARS-WORKSHOP-/171103385054?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3- ASubaru&hash=item27d68e75de&vxp=mtr#vi-ilComp
Now, when things get really tough, I pull the professional grade manuals out from the library or the ones I have already bought. That is very rare. We also still have contacts with dealer parts supplies who are very happy to share some of their mechanical nightmares and how they solved them. Needless to say, we share ours as well when they need help. For example, I do not replace the oil galley gasket with just silicone! I make a paper gasket and coat both sides with a thin coat of silicone. Needless to say the paper and the silicone must be correct for the application. Edmunds.com has become a good repository of repair info from many of us as well. Just search a topic and read. Lot of stuff there that will open your eyes just surfing and reading. Lot of stuff that will keep you out of trouble before you get in it. This info I have even used before buying a new car to see what kind of headaches people are having. Before buying the Yaris, I solved the problems others were having before the first dollar went out. Now there are 4 Toyota Yaris's in service replacing the Subaru's. 36-40 mpg is a real good deal and the maintenance needed is a lot lower than Subaru engines. NO timing belt!!!! But before you jump up and down on that one, timing chains do require service eventually. Ignore it, and you bang pistons into valves!
Bottom line, the more you know about your own car yourself, the less likely you will get screwed by a mechanic, the more likely you can head off major trouble before it comes and the longer that car will serve you. Not to mention you begin to know what parts fit what years! Huh....can you imagine knowing more about that car, like can you push it into at the rate you are driving......to age 30 with the original driveline!? Yes, if you can still get parts! I know, because I have a few up in that age bracket!
So much for shop talk today! This is what the pros use to get the tips they need for headaches....shop talk. Go get that Haynes book on Amazon.....that is your first textbook! Back to school! Imagine this it less than an inch thick and you will use it more than your college textbooks that were several inches thick! What a deal!
Back to edit.....another thought. The local library here has a subscription to Alldata. I rarely use it, but when I need it, it is there. Helpful when it comes to stuff like that DOHC 89 Volvo which has even less info available. So check your local library to see what resources they may have available.
Try here too:
Online Repair Manuals
They called me mid-day to say that the a/c compressor was not working. They had already charged it with freon. I paid $155.25 at pickup ($37 oil change - $118 a/c charge ). The a/c is working fine now but I haven't had it on for more than 20 minutes at a time.
They performed a multi-point courtesy inspection and here is what they itemized:
New a/c compressor w/ Labor - $920
Rear wiper blade torn - $16
Both Drive Belts (I assume P/S and Alternator) - $150
Both front marker bulbs - $26
Front left axle needed (torn boot will dry out?) - $340
$1452 - the above work + Tax
GirlcarlBuilder - I ordered the book from Amazon. I am in the process of moving to Long Island from Pittsburgh - where I will have a big driveway.
Any suggestions about stuff to buy for driveway work....pans, tarps, ramps?, whatever... greatly appreciated. As I said before back in the day I used to be able to slide under my oldsmobiles, however today, I am a bit more well nourished.
Thanks for the input everyone
Peter
Other than this, it's pretty simple.
I used jack stands the second time.
The first time, one of the bolts WAS installed by said 1000# gorilla.
So, with the car on the ground, I set-up the wrench with a long cheater bar, used a jack to apply pressure on the bar, then bounced on the car to break the bolt free.
YMMV. This is information only and I'm not responsible for injury or damage to anyone replicating my actions.
Also 2 bolts, removed the top one first. I bought a cheap hand held oil pump to pump diff oil UP in to the pumpkin. It's full when it spills out.
Your sig other will hate the smell of gear oil cologne.
When I was walking away from my car I noticed that my exhaust was leaking water. Something it has never done. Please tell me this is not the head gasket issue.....
It seems that whenever I take my car into a dealer all my problems get worse. I have been through the mill with this car. Ugh....
As long as you are not seeing the temp gauge take off under load, forget head gaskets. The nature of this beast is there is always small amounts of leakage. It starts out very small and builds gradually to the point of overheating under load. This can take years in some cases.
Compressor shutting down early? Check your Freon levels. Check to be sure your cooling fans are running.
My questions for those with more experience with Subarus: is this oil consumption typical of the boxer engine and is this oil consumption something I should be concerned about?
When I took my car in they charge the a/c system ($118) and then told me my compressor was shot. They quoted $900+ to replace compressor. I can't afford that but I really don't want to go without air next summer. The a/c is fine for the first 15 minutes but then loses its ability to cool. Does that sound like a compressor. If so Can I buy a rebuilt one and dIY?
Thanks
Peter
I think we used to change oil every 3k miles and probably never noticed. With a longer interval more common nowadays, we might.
Are you doing changes every 3750, 5000, or 7500 miles, or what?
I should add that this all assumes there is a correct charge amount on the system. If the charge is marginal it will begin to cycle on/off, but not a total shutdown.
Personally, around 200k miles or so, I like to pull the system down, pull a vacuum on it and a new filter dryer on it. There is some moisture invasion over time which is another reason I like to dry out an older system. Lot of the newer stuff is integrated in different ways. The new Toyota Yaris's we have, have that filter system inside the condenser now. Unless you have refrigeration experience, best left to a good pro with a specialized shop that does a/c work exclusively.
Rebuilt compressor......I do not care for them. I do know that Tri-State refrigeration in Louisiana has a rebuilder he swears by for Subie compressors. Otherwise I prefer new. They specialize in semi-trucks and may have a branch near you.
As a layman - it would seem that everything is fine but then something shuts down/fails. Does it make sense that it is indeed the compressor?
I wouldn't worry about that consumption level unless it has changed over time. If the car didn't use any for 30K, then suddenly started using a quart every 3K, that would be worth inspecting.
If you have that rate going on, you most likely have a leak! If no leak then someone put a heavier weight in and the engine wore out to that point for that weight! Highly recommended to stick to OEM recommendations! Even to this date, what the maker says is close to the deity speaking.
All of the newer Toyota's here are not using any oil between oil changes. Stick to what Subaru says to use. Tolerances in these newer engines are much tighter than years ago. Stick to synthetic oil also, because that light of a weight oil in mineral type will break down from the heat quicker.
I will also ad that Toyota has a portion of ownership in Subaru now!
Is this a rip off? What should something like that cost? Does anyone know a good independent mechanic in North NJ?
I have changed these things more than I care to in our fleet units. To date the replacement units have averaged 40K miles. True we buy mostly from rockauto.com. The last set came from the "top of the price and brand list." The clock will tell us! Does not matter whose name is on the box, the bearings are either NTN or Koyo. Discussion here lately has been about parts grade. We are hoping the higher price will be buying the higher parts grade. Manufactures do sell the poorer grade stuff at a lower price, but with rebox/resellers in the picture, it is hard to see who might be price gouging. There is a history of even Subaru dealers getting some poor quality stuff. I suggest you search my other write ups on this subject. Very long and informative on this big Subaru headache.
$485 sounds a bit right, but I would be more concerned about how many years the person doing the repair has under his/her belt. I have 40 plus years and 40K miles is the best I am getting? Our cars are snow birds with 250K- 320K of service each. All seals must be seated carefully. All seal mating surfaces must be clean, smooth and free of rust. That includes the halfshaft mating surfaces! I had to replaced those shafts recently because of rusted surfaces. If you have to replace a halfshaft, the best value for the dollar has been A1 Cardone NEW! Rockauto again.
Needless to say, this has been one of the rubs with Subaru and has put Toyota on the list for newer replacement units.
The low hum started at about 150k miles, and at 172k, was getting to be a pretty noticeable buzz. I still had no noticeable play in the wheels.
I replaced them with the updated Subie roller bearings, much more robust than the ball bearings that were original. The 2 Subaru bearings and 6 seals cost $170, an additional $20 for a machine shop to remove the old bearing race from the hub, and $110 for a Harbor Freight wheel bearing adapter kit. The kit is about a B-, the screw portion is rather weak, but is 3/4" x 16 thread so additional bolts can be bought to keep the rest of the well built parts going.
So $300 and 8 hours of time for a DIY bearing replacement. Step by step instructions are available on subaruforester.org.
John
John
Looking at the BMW i3. Among others. Lots to look at in 2014, 2015.
John
Try it out and make sure your family finds it comfortable.
I'm sure you're aware of the lowered EPA numbers, too.
Still, it has a bigger gas tank than any Prius and should be more fun to drive. I was kinda bummed the fam vetoed it.
I can remember how 30 years ago it was speed, looks, noise, and constant tinkering. We sure change over the years.
John
I have a 2003 Subaru Legacy LSE 5 speed manual wagon bought 9/11/2002 with 68,950 miles as of 12/16/2013.
Yesterday, I learned my head gasket is leaking and that there’s a coolant leak “somewhere behind the engine”. A new battery is also needed, but who’s counting? If I heard correctly, the head gasket would be about $2500, and the coolant leak could also be quite expensive, depending…
I made a plea for a consideration for relief from the manufacturer as this car has, but for one very, very minor issue, been serviced by nobody but Bloomington Subaru. It has never missed any service. Obviously, it’s old, but few cars could claim to be better maintained or perhaps as over maintained. Bloomington Subaru has always seemed reasonable. Do I?
Friday 12/20/2013 it goes in for diagnosis of the coolant leak behind the engine, and I’ll find out if prostrating myself on the Subaru altar helped.
A couple of questions:
First of all, any general advice? There are only 2 or 3 other minor issues with the car as far as I know. Is it stupid to invest this amount of money in this car? I’d hoped that by caring for it over zealously, the reward would be a longer life than this.
For some reason, I can’t search the forum right now, and this might be answered there. Sorry. Something with the server? Is it the design of the gasket and/or head, the integrity of the gasket itself, or perhaps is it also a measure of how vigorously the car has been driven? Mine is rarely pushed hard, and even then, not very hard. Passing, on-ramps, and the like.
Are there other expensive problems like this one which it would not be unreasonable to anticipate for this vehicle in the near- or medium-term future?
Is it reasonable to hope for some assistance on this? It’s particularly untimely financially to have to consider replacing this vehicle.
Unrelated, but upon full acceleration, I get a sound that I compare to the thing on the top of a pressure cooker when the RPMs get over about 3000-4000. A sort of high, quick, rattly/buzz from the engine. The service manager drove it with me a year or two ago and said it was some bearing behind the clutch and also that I wouldn’t have to worry about it until either the clutch needs replacement or the mileage is well past six figures. Can you figure out what he was talking about, and might this be related in any way to the coolant leak and/or head gasket?
I believe Consumer Reports has singled out this model and year as used a car not to buy.
Any insights appreciated. Thank you.
Wow! That's not very many miles for a ten-year-old vehicle! That aside, I doubt Subaru will do much on this, but perhaps they'll throw a little good will your way. 2003 was an awkward year because that is the year they apparently switched gasket materials, which cut down on (but clearly did NOT eliminate) the frequency of head gasket issues. The problem is a design flaw in the 2.5L engine that allows too much movement of the cylinders at their junction with the heads. With all the coolant and oil passages through that area, something is bound to cross channels or leak externally (or internally, sadly enough).
Expense-wise, your head gaskets are the primary cost. If you opt to have that done, I really doubt that any sort of coolant leak will create a large incremental expense given the amount of disassembly, etc., that goes into the head job. Will it come back? As surely as the sun rises and sets... BUT! That doesn't mean it will happen in another 60K miles. It could take that long, longer, less, or even not while you own it. You can also reduce the likelihood of the worst manifestations of this manufacturing flaw by using a coolant additive (Subaru's additive is essentially Stop Leak (proactively used!)). Starting around the time of 2003, Subaru required this additive in all naturally aspirated EJ25s mostly, I think, to cut down on the number of HG failure claims.
The rattly sound is probably a heat shield. Those can sometimes get to harmonizing given the right vibrational frequencies.
As for whether the expense is worth it.... Probably not if you plan to sell it anyway, but a definite YES if you want to keep the car and your alternative is to buy a new car (or even a "new used" car), as this cost is WAY lower than alternatives, you have already amortized the purchase of your car and any maintenance/repair work into it over the years. Consider that even if the sum of all this repair work is $3,500 - 4,000, that's still less than a year's worth of car payments. So, you dump some serious cash into it now, and get another five years out of it. You just came out four years ahead of simply paying off the purchase price of a new car.
Unless the car is worn out, I always recommend repairing unless you want a new car. If you do, then there's no reason to even justify the decision: You just want a new car, the end.
The search tool is the little magnifying glass up top or down below next to the list of pages (and other search links are around different areas of the site). Searching this discussion should return a list of posts.
If I heard correctly, the head gasket would be about $2500
That's a very hefty price for head gaskets on a 2.5L Subaru. As xwesx stated, this is a known defect, usually occurring like clockwork at between 100,000 and 130,000 miles but I guess in your case possibly age-related as well.
The car is certainly worth fixing but i think you are being quoted much too high a price for the gasket work. In any event, once repaired properly, you should not have any more trouble with this.
I doubt Subaru would be interested in intervening on a car this old, although, given how many thousands of 2.5L engines have failed because of this, they should. But I doubt they'd open the floodgates, and after 2003 or so the problem became far less prevalent.
XWESX, STEVER, & MrShift -- Opinions from people who know what they are talking about are highly valued and highly appreciated. Thank you for going all Click & Clack for me. Best wishes.
gjksn963 FYI,
I had a 2000 Legacy 5M. Head gasket issues at ~120k miles. Repaired by my local mechanic. Replaced my Legacy in September 2013 after 278k miles w/ no further head gasket issues. (Now driving my 2nd Subaru.)
Hoping it works out well for you whatever you decide.
My Outback is a '97 with the original head gaskets at 93k. I already asked my local mechanic what the going rate was and the estimate is around $1,300. So you may want to shop around Gjksn963 if Subaru and the dealer don't go to bat for you.
yes I was going to add that about $1500 in California does this job. Of course, that quote they gave you might include a whole lotta "while we're in there let's repair or replace the __X___"
The rattle sound is definitely not heat shields. I just had those tightened up recently. The sound I'm not describing well is not as loud as loose heat shields and is definitely linked to laying on/off the gas pedal at higher RPMs. Is there a bearing behind the clutch as described, and could the service manager's assessment be correct? Or does that just not make sense to anybody?
I really do appreciate all the information and thank you.