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Comments
I agree an overheating car can be kept cooler by running the heat.
-mike
-Colin
Alan
98 OB Ltd
Amsbear, funny you should bring this up. My '97 does the same thing. When I push the temp full hot, it springs back a quarter inch, and the temp lever moves toward cold easily but with resistance in the warm direction. I was going to get under there to see if I have a cable binding, but sounds like it's a "feature" of this HVAC system. Mine also stays full hot after it's warmed up - must be a temp expansion related quirk as you surmise.
IdahoDoug
However, if we define "warmed-up" as meaning when the engine has reached it's normal operating range, then I think the temp gauge can be misleading. It takes considerably longer for the oil temp gauge, which is measuring the oil temp in the pan, to reach normal operating temperatures. I found this a bit surprising when we first had the oil temp gauge installed.
Also, I remember reading a post somewhere from someone with access to the appropriate service manual volume, that the engine coolant temp gauge is engineered with a "flat spot" in the middle of the response curve, to keep the needle from "floating" due to normal temperature fluctuations while driving.
I've noticed that our engine temp gauge very rarely moves off of dead center, while in other cars we've had, you could tell when the thermostat opened and closed.
-brianV (trying to keep one eye on the road while watching his temp gauges.... lol)
That's an interesting observation and I'd be curious to get an estimate from you how long it takes after the water temp is normal to see a normal oil temp.
On the flat spot thing, I'd be skeptical of that source. If a manufacturer could be shown to have engineered a false reading into their temp guage, or even an area of lesser sensitivity, they'd be liable for every overheated engine that took place with that guage. I think it's more a matter that most modern cooling systems are pretty well engineered and matched to the vehicle's needs.
IdahoDoug
Howard
-mike
thanks mike k
-mike
thanks mike k
One owner had his oil filter clog up, and guess what? The gauge read fine, there was pressure - way too much pressure. Ka-boom.
I use 70 lbs for alloys, 75 for steel. But there's little realy difference. You basically don't want someone to have their torque settings set for an ML320 (120 ft-lbs), then do your Subaru at that setting. You'd end up with warped rotors, most likely.
-juice
-Dennis
That's assuming it's still under warranty, is it? You didn't mention what year/mileage.
-juice
-mike
If I had an engine that was using coolant, I'd call the nearest Caterpillar dealer (or other semi-truck service center) and ask about their engine fluid testing service. It's probably going to cost $75 or so, but if I liked the car I would be upset at the expense, but do it anyway so I could sleep at night.
It takes a week or more to get the test results back, but it will tell you unequivocally if you have an internal coolant leak or not.
Continuing in the "If it were my car vein", I'd next have the cooling system drained and refilled by a competent mechanic (me, in this case) to be sure that all air was purged. My 97 2.2 is inordinately prone to developing internal air pockets and has an air purge valve located atop the radiator specifically for this purpose. The only other Subaru I've worked on - an identical engined '96 also had issues with air pockets when I also drained and refilled it.
If these fast and relatively cheap steps do not take care of the problem, I'd develop that "coolant recovery tank too small" issue a bit.
IdahoDoug
-juice
Thanks,
Dennis
New here, so I have a few topics. Thanks in advance for any help!!
I bought a 2002 LL Bean Wagon in June and love it! A couple problems though...anybody else encountering?
1) Acrid 'exhaust' smell since new, intermitent, especially on hot days. Not really an exhaust smell, but similar. Much worse, actually. Live at 9,000 ft in CO...after 30 minute drive home into the mtns, the smell would occur. Could not even open the windows while driving. Very noxious smell that is different than exhaust, much more 'chemically' Dealer found exhaust leaks, has replaced different exhaust parts 4 times (finally the whole system at the request of the local SoA rep., last week). So far so good, but have not had hot days.
2) Warped brakes 3 times. I have lived in the mtns for 7 years and am very aware of the need to drop into 2nd gear when coming down steep mtn. roads and not riding brakes. I do this 100% of the time in my daily commute, no exceptions. No problem with much heavier Eurovan or old Pathfinder. Subaru says brakes are overheating, but has no sympathy (my fault as rotors are blue). I don't agree as I am doing all they ask (down shifting) and this is suppose to be a mtn capable vehicle. Ideas??
SPINOUTS
Our friend hit a small patch of gravel in her '99 Outback Wagon on Saturday, going the speedlimit (55 MPH). She ended up going backwards, into the other lane, and rolled the car 3 times. Not hurt. On another occasion we say a '99 style Outback going less than 20 MPH suddenly do a 180 in 2 inches of snow, right in front us. Very spooky.
Wondering, could all wheel drive make this worse? Is this a known problem? Should my family be concerned? My wife wants to upgrade to VDC, but my car in only 4 months old!
Have any of these mysterious level drops in coolant been checked with a cooling system pressure test?
And yes, an oil analysis would be a good idea. I don't like the idea of coolant disappearing. That's very troubling if it isn't an air pocket issue.
mrk610 - Our '01 Forester owner's manual calls for 58-72 ft. lbs for the alloys. I always set mine to 70, and specify that number to my tire and brake shops when necessary. Seems kinda low to me - my wife's car calls for 85.
-brianV
But you got a new exhaust, so I'd consider that problem resolved.
Why are the brakes warping? Well, first thing I'd check are the torque of the lug nuts. You should have them torqued to about 70 lb-ft. If the guy who mounted them had just done, say, a Mercedes ML320, he used 120 ft-lbs for that, and that is WAY too much for your Subie.
What I'd suggest is you specify the torque specs and then ask the installer how much they used when you pick it up. This is every time the wheels come off the car (tire rotation, any brake work, etc).
AWD certainly improves your traction, but it does not break the laws of physics. Furthermore, in steady-state cornering and braking, AWD doesn't matter much (except on long down hills with engine braking going to all 4 wheels).
My guess is those drivers became overconfident. VDC is a nice safety net if you think you'd need it, but even that won't do miracles.
-juice
If it were my car, I'd have the car put up on a lift (or crawl under it at home) and I'd want to look at the entire exhaust system with a very bright light. Something is likely melting onto the exhaust - likely the undercoating as mentioned. If so, a new exhaust system would leave things unchanged as it would simply drip onto the new exhaust. Since it's heat related, I think this is your answer. Now it's too cold for the heat radiated to the coating to cause it to flow and burn. Perhaps that particular day the guy at the plant got a bit carried away with the undercoating sprayer?
On the sliding, reams of evidence and study show that AWD is more stable under any conditions of transition or traction than FWD or RWD. I can only assume you happened to see a Subaru spin on a slippery spot due to a driver input that others drove over without that driver input. And unless your friend's rolled Subaru came to rest against several other vehicles that met the same fate at that spot that day, I think it's safe to say she also provided some improper driver input to cause the accident. I'd imagine it's a public road where this 'gravel patch' was and that hundreds or thousands of other motorists safely negotiated it before her on that very day. I've read research on single vehicle accidents, and drivers of these vehicles invariably find something that "caused" it to happen that was beyond their control. Nothing personal against your friend, but rarely will a driver in these circumstances say something like "I guess I was running a little fast and didn't see that turn/gravel/ice/deer/parked car/pedestrian in time". This psycho-social phenomenon is what produced the Audi sudden acceleration sensation. A father who's just run over his own son in the garage with the Audi is unlikely to say "Whoops, guess I pressed the wrong pedal, folks". It's human nature, I guess.
So, to answer your question, Subarus are not known for being unstable on slippery surfaces.
IdahoDoug
A 180...sounds like ice under that snow.
BTW, I have beaten the Outback's 180 before on snow in an integra. Did a 720 before coming to a stop along a stone wall when I was in high school. Luckily for me there was only minor damage to the car, and none to myself.
Maybe if the Outback was another car without the AWD, it would have been a much worse situation.
And of course the Outback is shorter, heavier, and has a wider track, all making it even harder to roll. But if it's tripped by a curb, any car could roll. I've seen pics of Golfs and NX2000s that did.
-juice
Greg
The only thing "holding" you on the road is those 4 tiny patches of rubber---that's it. It all depends on that ultimately.
tks - ken
I think the Outback Sport is the only Subaru that still has built-in tie-downs in the roof rack. Even the Outback doesn't. (Bob pointed that detail out to me).
-juice
-juice
Have you ever blown into a glass bottle and made it whistle? Same principal, but on a bigger scale.
A deflector helps, and sometimes opening a rear window also helps. I guess they create a turbulence that cancels out the buffeting.
You probably thought I was the phenomenon where Jimmy Buffet fans like to crank up the tunes! :-)
-juice
-juice
It's standard on the Outback Sport, but if you get the optional crossbars for the WRX or TS wagon, they're the same.
Bob
-Colin
-mike
Oh yeah, but does yours have one touch open/close, and programmability so it closes when you remove the key? ;-)
-juice
* one touch open all the way from any position
* one touch tilt all the way from any position
* one touch close from any position
* programmable to close/not close when you pull the key
* or hold any button to open/close it any amount
Basically you touch one button a single time and can get it to do whatever you want. If it's all the way tilted up, and you want to open, just hit the Open button and it'll tilt down, then slide back. Very cool.
-juice
On the rollover, the right conditions can roll anything from an SUV (on flat pavement) to a Vette or Ferarri (usually need to hook a rim in gravel or on a curb). Nothing is immune, but I'd say the OB is tough to roll with stock tires - easier with wider grippy tires of course. In the past year or so, there was a series of spectacular photos from a guy in a modified Golf/GTI on a flat parking lot who rolled it while simply turning sharply. Come to think of it, my stock Jetta used to corner on three wheels (you could hear it bark down like a landing airplane if you braked fast enough).
Here's a cheap trick for tie downs. I use 18"lengths of surgical tubing with a 1" circle in one end. Use a hog ring to make the circle, clamping it with pliers. Then, passing the free end around an object and through the hole, I tie a single overhand knot. Because the rubber is extremely grippy it will not move around, slide along the rails, nor untie itself. Because whatever you tie down is under tension, it will not work loose even if the object moves on a rough road. And because I'm cheap, I like the fact that $15 got me about 8 such tie downs, however the UV from being on the roof weakens them after about 3 years of occasional use. I've used them to hold lumber, skis, smelly hiking boots, sweaty bike helmets, kids toys, and duffel bags of all sizes up there. It started as a frantic effort to find a way to secure 4 sets of skis for a 2400 mile round trip, but later I realized they'll work for anything you can get them around. As a bonus, all 8 of them will fit in a dinky cubby or spare tire for instant availability when you find yourself at Home Depot carrying that 8 foot gasoline powered bird feeder.....
IdahoDoug
I have GOT to get me one of those! ;-)
-juice
Thanks,
Mark