Toyota 4Runner - 2003

rsholland · October 2002

that you wait until the V6 is released, then drive both the V6 and V8 back-to-back, so that your recollection is good, then make a decision.

The new 4.0 V6 has more horsepower than the V8, but less torque. Do you tow? If so the V8 would be the better choice. Also the V8 gets a 5-speed automatic and permanent full-time 4WD, whereas the V6 gets a 4-speed automatic and an on-demand 4WD, similar to Ford's Control Trac or GM's AutoTrac.

Bob

vixter · October 2002

Hey Bob,
I couldn't resist correcting you. The V6s will be equipped with a multi-mode 4WD set up, same as in the previous gen. The only Toyota that has an on-demand system available is the Matrix, everything else is either full-time or part-time.

rsholland · October 2002

I'll give you one more opportunity to correct me...

I was under the impression, with the multi-mode 4WD, when in 4WD high, it's really 2WD, but when slippage occurs the 4WD kicks in; just like Ford's Control Trac and GM's AutoTrac. I've had Toyota sales people (not cliffy*) tell me this. Am I right or wrong?

BTW, I'm used to being corrected; the wife does it all the time...

* = Cliffy, IIRC, said the only difference between the permenent 4WD found on the V8 and the multi-mode found on the V6 is that it offers a 2WD mode too. However, I've had couple of Toyota sales people tell me otherwise, like what I've stated above. So which is it? Selectable full-time, or on-demand full-time? Inquiring minds want to know.

Bob

mrwhipple · October 2002

Another difference between the two engines:

V6 uses Super-Unleaded fuel,
is also is about 130 lbs. lighter in weight.

V8 uses Regular-Unleaded fuel

mrwhipple · October 2002

The driver's seat does move up and down for height adjustment. It "pumps" up & down like a barber's chair. As it pumps up it also moves slightly forward to keep a straight angle with the pedals. Nice little feature.

It is the long lever on the left side of the seat.

sivi1 · October 2002

just got automobile magazine, and it says both v6 and v8 SLURP premium fuel.

intmed99 · October 2002

J/K...the salesman is wrong. The Multimode 4wd system is great! If you are in 4wd, you are FULL-TIME 4x4. Power split (for '02 4Runner) is 50/50.

rsholland · October 2002

Okay, that means it's a "selectable" (as opposed to permenent) full-time 4WD; and can be driven on any surface, any time. Is there also a "part-time" 4WD High mode too, like that found on Jeep's Select Trac? What about the 4WD low range? Can that be driven (if needed) on hard paved roads without any fear of binding, that one would get with a part-time 4WD? Or, is 4WD Low a part-time (only) 4WD mode?

Bob

geckles · October 2002

My new 4X4 Sport has All leather seats with no side air bags cost 1,200.00.. It is nice leather that feels nicer than Grandma's cadillac leather. I have been told that some of the Limiteds only offer leather trim. Make sure you get the All leather, very nice..............

vixter · October 2002

Multi-mode allows the user to engage 4WD on any surface full-time if he wishes. Locking the center diff. will give an effect of a part-time system given that they lack a center diff. My preference would be the V8 model w/full-time, it's less complicated for the user and still has low range. The extra $1500 CDN for the 8 IMO is better value, 5spd auto w/gated shifter,full-time 4WD, 87 oct.fuel, insignificant extra fuel usage and more torque.

bulych · October 2002

in regard to the question of the towing capability of the old 4runner,i have a 1996 ltd. which has a disignated towing capability of 5000#.i tow a 25 ft. travel trailer which weighs approx.5400# and i don't have any problem at all.i tow on mountain highways with gradient of 8%.i understand that the new 4runner with the v8 has the capability to tow 7000 # with the proper hitch design

rsholland · October 2002

But what about Low Range (in both the V6 & V8)? If I should have a "Senior Moment," and decide to drive down to the local Burger King in Low Range, can I do it without fear of ruining my drivetrain? Is Low Range also "full-time?"

Bob

alan271 · October 2002

Liked the 2003 for the V8 (available in Calif with 2WD or 4WD)and the wider lower overall design. It drove very nice. Smoother, quieter, and faster than both the Trailblazer LTZ and the Explorer V8. Interior looked so much better than the GM or Ford product. 5000 lbs tow capacity is enough for me.

Very disappointed in the body cladding on the SR5
and Sport. Really ugly and cheap looking. Would have to spend the extra money for the Limited to get around the body cladding look, even though I do not really need leather.

In Calif, the Limited is only available with two "option packages", both include the upgraded stereo, which is ok, but they also include the
sunroof and the rear spoiler, which is $2000
worth of stuff I don't need or want. You must
pick an "option package". Does not sound like an "option" to me.

Anyone know about purchasing the Limited with
only the options the buyer actually wants? Any dealers out there taking orders? Can I order a car delivered to another "zone" that does not come with the Calif option packages and still register it in Calif?

Anyone considering getting a Sport and altering the body cladding?

Anyone used the 2003 to tow a small boat, such as a 19 foot runabout, yet? I'm curious if there is much droop to the rear when the trailer is connected. Seems the 2002 and prior models had weak rear suspensions.

Kirstie_H · October 2002

Don't forget to join us for tonight's open, member-to-member chat, 5-6pm PT/8-9pm ET.

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html

Our loose topic for tonight is most anticipated 2003 models. Hope to see you there!

kirstie_h

Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

intmed99 · October 2002

With my 4Runner (2002), you can drive in LOW range on ANY surface (slow speed of course). Only when you lock the center diff that you MUST drive on slippery surfaces.

rsholland · October 2002

That's good to know. Not so with many other 4WD Low Ranges...

Bob

stopgo · October 2002

I just sold my '94 4Runner that had the 150 HP 188 torque engine. I used it to tow my 17' boat/trailer (no brakes) rig that i estimate weighs about 4000 lbs. loaded out. I never had a problem stopping the rig, only had problems getting it going and keeping it going up hills and such, this was a sadly underpowered vehicle.

My interpretation of the 1000 lb. limit highly debated here is that the car manufacturers are legally bound to make this statement based on some calculation for purposes of liability.

My '94 would have pulled much more than 4000 lbs. and had a rating for 5000 lbs. I drove the '03 4Runner with the V8 and I know it will pull way more than 5000 lbs. However, the truck may not be specifically engineered to do that with it's current suspension, hitch, and brake arrangements.

I ended up buying a Land Rover Discovery, go ahead and slam away, I am very happy with my decision. It too is rated similarly to the new 4Runner, it has a 7700 lb. total capacity, 5500 lb. capacity for trailers with brakes, and 1650 lb. capacity for trailers with no brakes.

Bottom line, I would not and will not spend much time thinking about towing anything up to 5500 lbs. without brakes, I believe that the Discovery, 4Runner, GX470, and others with similar ratings and specs can handle it. If you need more than that, you'll have to get a bigger truck that allows for 7500 lbs. plus capacity.

For those towing in the 5000 lb. range, I say go for it.

intmed99 · October 2002

I like the '03 Disco! The '03 Disco ride is REALLY nice...they really tamed the solid axles! Excellent ride...easily rivals the '03 4Runner BTW. The new engine is a nice upgrade but drinks tons of premium gas! It is a proven unit. Really, the ONLY two criticisms are: 1. questionable quality (improved in recent years); and 2. Extremely narrow rear doors. Other than that, i love it!

My brother has an '01 Disco. He loves it! No problems except for a frozen driver door lock (fixed under warranty). We even went off-roading a few times. The Disco has GREAT wheel articulation!!

fishingguy · October 2002

OK, I had to climb underneath a 2003 4runner and Sequoia to look at the hitch. In the end I tend to agree with post #168 that the 03 4runner is gonna handle up to 5k so I should probably stop thinking about it. Anyway here are my thoughts.

- The 4runner hitch adapter is bolted onto the bumper with two 1/2" (or so) bolts. The bumper is welded to the frame so probably not the fatigue risk associated with older bumper hitches. The whole hitch adapter and bumper basically form one large bracket with the weakness of only the bolts connecting the adapter to the bumper and only one point of contact from the bumper to the frame.

- The Sequoia hitch adapter is bolted to the bumper and then extended via a bracket to bolt directly to the frame. Roughly 6 points of contact, just a better design IMO.

- It looks like the spare truly did create a challenge for the Toyota engineers. Rather than dropping down a few inches and creating a bracket that could attach to the frame, they said "let's just bolt it to the bumper, that is enough." Pretty dumb idea, hard to believe that with such a solid V8 they would settle for with a seemingly weak link.

- Anyway my guess is that the attachment is just fine. My boat is probably 3k pounds loaded with a cooler of fish from a successful outing. I will bet in a year or two, a very solid after-market hitch is available. Still hard to believe that engineers as meticulous on suspensions would make the hitch an afterthought.

- Boy the molding over the fender on the SR5 is UGLY. I will probably by it anyway since I am too cheap to step up to the Limited. It looks way better in my opinion. Maybe one of the body colors will do a good job of hiding the molding.

rsholland · October 2002

No one is disputing these SUVs ability to tow 5000 pounds. That's a given. It's just they can't *stop* an extra 5000 pounds within a reasonable distance, and certainly not in an emergency.

And yes, the lawyers are clearly earning their money here. However, they do have valid point. Also, virtually all states have trailer brake laws. Here in Maryland, any trailer over 3000 pounds must, by law, have it's own set of brakes.

Bob

mrwhipple · October 2002

The '03 Disco is a fine machine. Handles very well too. At 12 / 16 mpg, you're right, it isn't exactly a fuel miser. One problem though, if you're tall, it's hard to get very comfortable in the driver's seat. The tilt wheel doesn't move very far.

aufan1 · October 2002

For those who do not like the cladding on the SR5 and don't want a limited...
I talked to a dealer today and he said Toyota could make a midyear revision IF they get enough complaints about it.
GO TO toyota.com, then to contact us section, then to FAQ, then EMAIL TOYOTA and TELL THEM YOU DO NOT LIKE THE GRAY CLADDING ON THE SR5. TELL THEM YOU WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO PURCHASE IT IF IT WERE BODY COLORED CLADDING(LIKE THE LIMITED). IF THEY GET ENOUGH EMAILS, HOPEFULLY THEY WILL CHANGE IT AND GIVE US A CAR WE WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT WHEN WE BUY!!! Thanks guys!!

wwest · October 2002

I had my 01 burnished gold AWD RX converted from two tone to monotone for $1300.

bleesfp · October 2002

I've heard that when the V6 does come out in Dec/Jan that it will only be available in SR5/Sport and not Limited, has anyone heard differently???

nippononly · October 2002

would it cost to go to a body shop and have them pull the cladding off? Would it need to be painted underneath, or is the cladding put on over the top?

aufan1 · October 2002

I dont know how much that would cost, but I don't think it would cost Toyota too much to switch to the body colored cladding in the production process, especially since they are already used on the limited.

Even if they charged a $400 option fee to make them body colored, I think people would jump on it.

Any idea of how sales are doing for the new SR5. I wonder if the sales will be as high as the typical 4runner has been. (hopefully not... get the message toyota)Probably the only thing that will make them change is if sales are down because of it.
The dealership here has had one SR5 on the lot since the 10th and has not sold it yet. They just got a limited this week and it has not sold either. I don't know if it has to do with the price or the look. I would have thought it would have sold quickly.

wwest · October 2002

If one (john Q public) doesn't know, understand, the difference, why would anyone buy the 4runner over the HL?

Both are marketed as competent (soft-road, wintertime on-road low traction conditions)AWD vehicles which is where the major market segment resides. Absent Toyota getting the word out that the HL is only a "pretend" AWD why would anyone pay more for what on the surface appears to be the very same "value"?

mike387 · October 2002

I am just wondering can someone explain why the tmv pricing is so low on the 03 4Runner, based on the edmund's tmv, 03 4runners are selling $600-$700 above invoice, I think it's a bit strange, since it's brand new and consider the Pilot or MDX are selling at MSRP. Does that mean toyota is having difficulty selling them or??

thanks in advance

nippononly · October 2002

TMV based on one pricing formula, adjusted by area for lower/higher incomes? If that is the case, it cannot take into account the factor of hot new cars vs poor-selling older models.

Many people on the Civic SI board are quoting prices paid of more than $1000 below invoice, but I bet if I went and put that car into the TMV calculator, it would give me some small percentage above invoice too.

wwest · October 2002

Could it be?

Just stopped by the Toyota store to look at the 03 4runner and pick up a sales brochure. I'll take back any statements I have made about the 4runner vs the HL or RX, the 4runner is just plain too damn big and bulky.

But.

From the brochure on the TORSEN limited slip diff'l:

"For example, when the vehicle is traveling straight, 40% of the torque is distributed to the front wheels, while 60% is allocated to the rear (40/60), providing the driver with a feel typical of a rear-wheel drive vehicle."

WHEN THE VEHICLE IS TRAVELING STRAIGHT ????

Is it entirely possible that Toyota has figured out how to design a truly excellent AWD vehicle?

The statement implies that the torque to the front wheels might be something other than 40% if the vehicle is turning. I have always firmly believed that it is wrong to have driving, motive, force to the front wheels while turning.

Motive forces, acceleration or deceleration, to the front wheels should be reduced altogether when turning, or as a function of the level of need from tractive adhesion to be allocated to directional control.

Maybe, we can hope, Toyota has arrived at the perfect AWD solution.

40/60 normal, 29/71 w/front slippage, 53/47 w/rear slippage, AND 29/71 (5/95 severe turn??) when turning.

Now, can I have an RX with this feature next spring?

Or even an HL??

popeye5 · October 2002

I picked up a brochure today at our local toyota dealership titled Toyota Today (September/October 2002). On page 4 there is a black and white photo of a Toyota 4 Runner SR5 without the cladding...the caption says it's a 2003 4Runner SR5 but it looks like a 2002....I was hoping it was a 2003 since it was sans cladding....anyone else see this photo?

gerbspa · October 2002

I have heard most dealers are selling the new 4runner at MSRP. Why is the TMV so Low on this website? I really do not think you can get a 2003 LIMITED 4Runner for $800.00 over invoice. At least this year.

ray_c · October 2002

I did it!

mackabee · October 2002

IRT TOYOTA TODAY, that picture is a 2002 the caption was a misprint or rather the caption was correct but they put the wrong picture.

: )
Mackabee

dust90 · October 2002

Drove them both. Envoy is noisier, lacks power until the revs build(this one had the 3.73 gears), and the rear end wanted to sway quite a bit with any steering input. Envoy didn't feel near as solid as the Toyota(no surprise). The Toyota JBL, 10 spkr stereo is probably the best stock system that I have ever listened to, reminds me of the Nakamichi in the earlier Lexus. The ONLY down side to the 4runner is the ugly cladding. Mine will be a Limited!

airbur · October 2002

All....

I just talked with Toyota Customer Assistance and gave them my opinion of the Grey Cladding that looks so horrible on the 2003s. They were VERY HAPPY to hear this and to get my report. They told me to let EVERYONE know to CALL them DIRECTLY! Here is the contact info:

Toyota Customer Assistance
6am - 6pm Pacific Time
800.331.4331 Option #3.

Call and let them know what you think! Pass it on.

aufan1 · October 2002

I recently emailed Toyota about the ugly cladding. They replied today that they have no plans to change the gray plastic cladding on the SR5.

Email Toyota PLEASE!
All we as consumers can do is refuse to purchase and email and call letting them know our reasons. Please email and call letting them know!

toyota_cares@toyota.com

khaug · October 2002

2003 4WD 4Runner LTD V-8 with:
-JBL 6-CD changer stereo
-Moonroof
-Rear air suspension
-Curtain & side airbags
-Rear spoiler
-Daytime running lights
-Carpet floor mats

MSRP: $41,016; My price: $38,815

The dealer also made a very attractive offer for my '98 4Runner LTD, an amount well above Edmund and Kelly Blue Book trade-in valuations. I gladly accepted the deal and we're now waiting for a vehicle to become available. The dealer (Metro Toyota, Kalamazoo, MI) estimated delivery at sometime in November.

22rrules · October 2002

I just e-mailed Toyota and said:

I love the cladding! Please do not change it until I get my V6 Sport. I actually go off-road sometimes and this thing is perfect. No more paint chips and scraps. I own a Tacoma that gets them all the time.

I definitely will not buy it if you put paint on the bumper like the Limited. If you do any parallel parking in a city you know why. Thanks!

intmed99 · October 2002

aufan1 · October 2002

I think the cladding should be offered on the Sport model but not the SR5. It is very useful for the sport and the people who would want the cladding would probably also want the other features that come with the sport.

I dont think anyone would disagree with offering cladding on the sport and body colored on the SR5.

4runnerpilot · October 2002

FYI-I am sure 3-4 different companies will offer paintable aftermarket fender flare/panel/bumper kits. They're available for all previous 4runners/Sequoias/Tundras.

PS. How bout no one buys an 03 4runner (in WA) until December. That way the dealers will be happy to sell the excess at around invoice. deal?

Also, why is it that I have only seen 1 '03 4runner on the road (Sport Ed)? in Bellevue.

thebigshow · October 2002

I have found a few different 4Runner 4X4 SR5 that I am interested in purchasing. These 4Runners have a combination of the following options:

C7 Convenience Package- Floor Mats, Cargo Mat, Cargo Net, First Aid Kit
FO Sport Bumber Trim
V5 VIP RS 3200 Alarm System
XY70 Toyoguard Plus Protection Group
WK30 4-16" Enkei Alloy Wheels
TR10 Color-keyed Lighted Running Boards
LE10 Pref. Perforated Suede Seats W/

These options are not listed on Edmunds and I have not been able to find pricing information anywhere on the Internet. Does anyone know where I can found descriptions and invoice pricing?

Are these Port options? If so, what is a Port option? Thanks in advance for the replies.

mdwmdw · October 2002

As a salesman who sells these I should let you know, we all hate the grey cladding also and they are selling for about $2000 - $3000 over invoice in our area despite what Edmunds is showing. I am wondering where Edmunds.com gets there TMV numbers now.

If you haven't yet driven the new 4Runner, I love it. It is so much more comfortable than last years. Fact is I now own a 1985 with 250,000 miles on it I use for offroad beating and I still can't getover how well the darn things hold up. Two flips and not a single mechanical problem. Obviously the body is mangled but it still runs.

Enjoy.

toyotaken · October 2002

First, to let you know, I work for a Toyota Dealership in New York State. I started selling Toyota's about 10yrs ago, so I'm pretty familiar with them, so if you have questions, feel free to ask.

There are two different places that options are installed into Toyotas. The first is the factory. There are options that are ONLY available as factory options and some that are ONLY available as PPO options. Factory options, for the most part, are not able to be individually changed by the dealers. Trust me on this, I tried when I ordered a Tacoma for myself to get bucket seats for a truck that was being built with only the split bench, waited six-months and it still came in with the spit bench. This does not mean that you can't, just it is VERY difficult and time consuming. These are typically hard-wired or hard-attached options such as audio upgrades, changes to the suspension, etc.

The second place is at the "port" or central distribution point for the vehicle. These are called PPO or "post production options". These are options that are easy to "bolt-on". Things like floor mats, cargo nets, etc. These can be individually added or deleted by the dealer if caught early enough in the production cycle for a particular vehicle.

Feel free to ask if you have any other questions. You can e-mail me directly if you want at wnyken@yahoo.com

hpilot1 · October 2002

I saw the new 2003 4Runner today and it is outstanding. I really like it a lot. There are, however, a few problems:
*The price is simply ridiculous. To get the Limited with a NAV System (a must for me), you are talking about $44,000! You have got to be kidding.
*I want to get a Limited, but I absolutely hate running boards! You can't get it without the boards. I guess I could just rip them off, but what a waste.

wwest · October 2002

Don't get the limited, paint the cladding to match, and get a "goes-anywhere" laptop with a GPS reciever and software.

brwndoggy · October 2002

The 2002 was a nice looking vehicle.
The 2003 is quite the missup of cladding and pieces sticking out in the rear, just look at the silly thing above the rear hatch... A Spolier?
I looked. Didn't believe how ugly the SR and Sport are.
Asked about limited's - non to be seen... All bought, even at msrp... I guess it's a nice vehicle but I'm not paying 40 + K for this weird truck when I can get a much more confortable MDX with NAV that is faster and won't get discounted in 6 months like these once the Lexus version comes out and people see how smart toyota was putting out their 'cheaper' line out first....

Glad we have these boards to share our findings.

hannerhan · October 2002

brwndoggy,
I don't think the MDX is faster than the V8 4Runner. If so, maybe .2 seconds or something, but I think they would both run high 7's to 60. Also, if you want to get an MDX with nav, you're looking at $39K, and a 4Runner would be the same thing (without all the extra options).
So do you want a more comfortable, more roomy people-hauler, or do you want a real 4WD off-road capable vehicle?
It's not about the features or price, it's about what you need...

intmed99 · October 2002

An MDX is a dressed up Honda minivan. Blah.

Off-road ability is now where near the 4Runner (past and present).

Toyota 4Runner - 2003

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