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The 626 after awhile became associated with Ford. The Protege is not associated with Ford so I don't want the 3 to be. The 6 is kinda associated with Ford on consumers mind. Thats not a good thing.
If the Volvo version does not use Mazda engine, then... For the N.A. market, Volvo will only use 5-cyl, both turbo & non-turbo, so that's a Volvo engine.
The Mazda3 will not use a Ford auto tranny, 'cause even the N.A. Focus I is already using a Mazda auto tranny.
I haven't read the second article before though. It talks about Hyundai. I didn't realize they were doing so well.
"Hyundai has eclipsed Mitsubishi, Volkswagen and Mazda to become the fourth largest import brand in America."
I guess a good warranty can go a long way. Sure the prices are cheap, but I think the warranty is what really does it. Struggling companies like Saab and Mazda might want to consider upping their warranties another year or two to attract customers. If Isuzu, Suzuki, Hyundai, Kia, Chrysler, Infiniti, and others can do it, then I'm sure Mazda could too. Not saying Mazda would have to do it but if they get desperate then maybe it would help.
My guess is: Just like the platform, they probably chose the "best" suppliers among those who use to deal with Volvo/Ford/Mazda. It will save the cost in two ways:
- they can negotiate a better price based on greater number of purchase.
- they will spend less time to study, define the spec, design, and qualify the specific component.
For now, I don't see how the sharing of components could compromise the quality, and shouldn't be object of concern for us. Just my $.02.
Bruno
http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/images/12195.1.gen.jpg
If I'm not mistaken Volvo is suppose to officially release pictures and info on the 26. Kind of a teaser until the Frankfurt show, so if anyone is interested in this car keep an eye out for that. Also here is the article where that picture comes from. Maybe Volvo already released the info or someone jumped the gun too early and released it before they were suppose to? Not really sure, but anyway here it is. I haven't translated it so I'm not sure if there's any relevant info in it about the Mazda3.
http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/?id=12194
I like the 3 best :-D
http://www.autoweek.nl/newsdisp.php?cache=no&ID=1742
Wow, good questions about exactly which parts & suppliers are being shared. I have no idea. But, FWIW, if you want to see the Ford Focus C-Max's suppliers (C-Max being the first vehicle on this platform), click here:
http://europe.autonews.com/files/cutawaycmax.pdf
In terms of where those 60% of shared parts are, I suspect the Mazda3/euro-FocusII/Volvo S40/V40 to be like this:
http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/28923.jpg
http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/28920.jpg
Pretty similiar isnt it? Those are underhood pictures of the Mazda2 and Ford Fusion. They are platform shared (and the euro-specs are even assembled at the same factory), but they do look different on the outside.
Fortunately, as we can see with the above Volvo S40 and Euro-Focus II pics, the looks of these 3 cars will be quite different.
Mazda3 Job 1 on Sep. 2:
My earlier information was that N. American job 1 would be on Sep 16, but that was from a long time ago and Mazda could very well have changed the timetable since then (maybe production is going better than expected?).
pzev, I don't know which forum you got the Sep. 2 info from, but can you post on that forum and ask where the Mazda3 sedan is assembled? I'm starting to suspect it's not going to be Ujina (Hiroshima) plant I anymore (and I know for sure it's not Ujina plant II). The hatch is definitely at Hofu plant I though.
Mazda horsepower:
The big news from today is Mazda down-rated the RX-8 to 238hp man. & 198hp auto. Don't worry about this for the Mazda3 2.3l. In N. American spec, it has been dynoed at approx 130hp at the wheels (so the 160hp is true).
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=3511
As you can see it's almost a year old so it may not be accurate. That's the last I heard about it so anything beyond that I'm not sure about. You did mention though that you know for sure it's not plant #2. How do you know this? The article seems to hint that it will be, but Mazda never gave any official word in that article so there's no way to know. Also I was curious if there is any advantage in being built in one factory over another?
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38122
"For the U.S. market, Mazda will:
- Replace both the Millenia and aging 626 with the 6.
- Add muscle with the RX-8.
- Give the MPV a more powerful drivetrain.
- Add a second roadster to accompany the Miata."
Does anybody know anything about this second roadster? And why a second roadster, why not a coupe instead?
Based on that insight, he says: "To me, the most efficient way to market is to get vehicles physically out to where consumers will be and start the word of mouth, which means you have to seed the message much earlier."
For the Mazda3, which replaces the Protege, that will mean "a lot of events, buzz marketing and relationship marketing," he says.
He added that the marketing plans are not final, and said he is waiting for his local marketing managers to come to him with plans."
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=44603
Dinu
I know the Mazda3 sedan (at least initially), won't be assembled in Ujina plant II because Ujina plant II isn't expected to re-open until 2nd quarter '04 at the earliest.
As for dealer info on the Mazda3, all I have to say is that if you look on the Mazda3 boards here, all the specs and options I posted earlier have been removed (and removed for a while now). Let's just say I got contacted. But it had already spread out too much on the internet by the that time.
I think you hit it right on when you said that Mazda has to get people to just test drive their cars before going to H/T. If they can do that, their sales will increase.
Dinu
Ok now I see why US dealers haven't said anything yet. I'm sure Mazda will give us some good info in a couple of weeks though.
So it would be assembled in plant #1 then right?
Mazda needs to make these cars as reliable as possible and hope CR and JD Power reflects that since a lot of average people rely on sources like this to influence their decisions. They also need improved fuel mileage and improved crash test scores. All these things weigh more on the economy car shopper's mind than the control blade suspension.
I think they have the product part down. No problems there in my opinion. I don't see them taking the cheap price or huge warranty route, this has to be about convincing Honda and Toyota shoppers to go to the Mazda dealership. This niche car stuff can't go on, they have arguably a far superior product than Honda and Toyota at a very similar price. They can win buyers over on product but they need the additional ingredients to success which is reliability (somehow get rid of the Ford stigma), crash test scores on par with Toyota and Honda, and fuel mileage on par with them. A typical buyer is going to say the Toyota and Honda offers me great fuel mileage, good crash test scores (good safety), great reliability, and good resale value at the same price as a Protege which offers only average fuel economy, average safety, and in a lot of people's minds average reliability. Short of offering huge discounts or a great warranty they'll have to improve in these areas.
I never really paid attention to Mazda's association with Ford. My Dad mentioned it to me in 1997. I thought since Mazda was a Japanese car company they made reliable cars. Of course I know more about the car industry than I did 6 years ago. Even American Cars are fairly reliable now.
Thanks, got your email. Again, the Mazda3 hatch is definitely at Hofu plant I. From what I know, the sedan will either be at Ujina (Hiroshima) plant I or Hofu I (same as the hatch). I just registered on the forum and will ask that fellow.
carguy58:
Yes, Mazda's doing something about the RX-8 mistake. They are going to send a letter to all US & Canadian owners and those with pre-orders that haven't taken delivery yet. The letter will give the customers 2 options:
- Mazda buy the car back
- free scheduled maintenance for standard warranty period, plus $500 debit card
Customers then have like 30 days to respond.
The reason I buy Mazda is the fact I owned a RX7 that was good to me and I'm familiar with them. It's the Mazdas that were built 2-5 years ago that are going to create the most customers for Mazda. And with those dreaded auto 626's out there, things don't look all that promising. Now the Protege with the 1.8L...That's a gem.
About the Civic if Ford hadn't messed up the Focus it would have probably outsold the Civic. I liked the Civic back in the mid to late 90's. The new ones are ok but auto magazines really weren't that enthusiastic about the 01+ Civic.
Abou the 3 hatch it looks great in the back but the front of it spoils the whole cars look.
About the whole Ford thing why do so many people buy Ford's if they their quality is bad?
The N.A. Focus sold more than it should, 'cause the consumers had a false security that Ford compacts have been ok in reliability for several years after the Protege-design took over the American Escort during the '90's. The real name of this 323-based Escort/Tracer body style is suppose to be Ford Laser, also built in Japan by Mazda. So the introduction of the Euro-designed Focus in America was a sudden death trap.
My theory is that some people want to buy "American" so they will buy a car from one of the Big 3. Take a look at the sales last month. Compare the Ford Escape to the Mazda Tribute.
Ford Escape 16,168
Mazda Tribute 5,657
Also worth noting, the Mazda appears to have bigger rebates on the Tribute compared to the Escape. Also some of this can be credited to a typical SUV shopper would go to a Ford dealer first over a Mazda dealer since Ford dealerships have more SUV's to look at and test drive, etc. Tributes and Escapes are pretty much the same right? So unless the person just doesn't know they're almost the same car, why wouldn't they get a Tribute with bigger rebates and probably can negotiate a better deal since they're slower sellers? Also look at the Mazda Truck and Ford Ranger. The Mazda has a slightly better rebate also.
Ford Ranger 19,179
Mazda Truck 1,422
Also the same time a year ago, the Ranger sold 27,558 and the Mazda sold 2,069. This kind of goes back to what I said in an earlier post. If people were to look at a Mazda3 as just another Ford and as a Ford Focus clone that would not be good at all. If someone wanted a Focus they'll buy the Focus at a cheaper price compared to the Mazda3. Sure we know better, but does the average customer know better?
I agree. But I do think they have to target the Civic and Corolla anyway, even though they have no chance in beating them in sales. Why do so many people buy those cars? Because they're looked at as reliable. People simply don't care what kind of chassis the car is on. As long as they can put a decent interior and exterior on the car they will sell with no problem. Mazda can offer a better chassis, better exterior and interior and everything else and they simply won't sell as much. Why? Because they never even consider the Mazda or it's simply another Ford. They can win some sales by getting the product out there and having people try it. If the reliability holds up then that's some good word of mouth.
So will you get rid if the Dodge or Accord?
Dinu
As for Mazda with Ford I just thought it was the auto tranny's in the mid 90's that hurt Mazda's reputation alot not the rebadged Ford pick-ups that hurt their repuatation. Mazda really didn't really sell alot of B-Series cabs in the 80's. Was Mazda heavily associated with Ford before 1994 I wonder though.
The Focus is built in N.A., but it's not really an American car at all, design-wise & engineering-wise. A Mazda3 or a cosmetically-different version can be rebadged as a Ford, just like the Mazda B2000 pickup imported from Japan was rebadged as Ford Courier.
"But I do think they have to target the Civic and Corolla anyway, even though they have no chance in beating them in sales. Why do so many people buy those cars? Because they're looked at as reliable."
Most people are cheapskates. From the people I talked to, they know most Japanese cars are reliable anyway, but the resale value is what determines which car to get. So they rather sacrifice driving fun for the rest of their life & live boring. I do believe Mazda's noisier fwy cruising hurts the resale value in America, however.
I'm a cheapskate, too. But I don't care. Resale value won't happen until sometime in the future when I sell the car. But my entertaining '90 Mazda Protege LX w/ Gabriel struts is also comfortably riding & lasting forever, I don't even have to sell it. Even if I will sell it eventually, what's the big difference b/t a $500 Protege & a $1000 Corolla? That $500 is well worth the fun for way over a decade.
The car I'm selling is the '98 Corolla LE 5-sp. Despite quiet for a small car, the boring steering/handling & shallow uncomfortable ride make me want to get rid of it early & therefore wastes even more $ than my worse-resale Mazda.
About resale value if you are going to keep a car for 3-4 years you mine as well just lease if you don't travel alot of miles. Its not worthed to buy a car under the circumstances that I just mentioned. If you plan on keeping a car 5 years resale might be a factor in making a car buying decision. Than again 5 years is when all cars depreciate 50% from their orginal purchase value. 6 or more years of owning a car resale isn't a factor in my opinion. Some people buy a car every 2 years and take the heavy hit on losing money on a trade-in which isn't always smart.
On the reliability front Mazda does get good marks from Counsumer Reports. The 90 day surveys they don't do well in where as the Domestic Big 3 do good in those surveys but 90 days to own a car isn't enough to judge a cars reliability as we all know.
On Mazda sales Mazda sales have been down because the 626 was in its last year of body style last year so Mazda sales were down. This year the Protege is in its last year of body style and the 6 got off to a bad start sales wise in the beginning of this year. Thats why Mazda sales are down. With the whole RX-8 HP thing that will hurt Mazda sales more. I wonder if Mazda has to deduct some of their units sold of RX-8 from the year total sales so far if some RX-8's are returned to dealers.
That is if we keep the household population down to 3.
http://www.autoweek.nl/forum/read.php?f=4&i=56005&t=56005
Hopefully mazda NA will not do anything stupid to change the design too much.
Dinu
PS: WOW! This looks good! Sorry, I just can't get over it
The non-sport front end looks good in silver as if all the powerful lines integrated well w/ a V-shape theme. Maybe this is my choice.
The sport-grill front end also looks good in grey, but not in blue, which looks PT Cruiser-ish.
The sedan's short rear deck, although may look a little "compact-cheap", seems like it's design to compete w/ the upcoming BMW 1-series. In other words, this is the future BMW looks. So BMW will be accused of imitating Mazda. Watch out Mazda, the 2005 4-cyl BMW 1-series(w/ the 4-dr sedan being built here in Carolina planned) might cost only $22k. Just like the later-introduced Euro Accord(Acura TSX) seems to be copying the Mazda6, although it was Mazda that followed Honda's grill shape.
That VW interior must be the future Golf/Jetta's, as hinted by the new-A3-ish "handles at the base of the dash". This time, VW no longer followed the idiotic "piling from the bottom" dash-center layout as "pioneered" by the the Audi A4. Neither is the intelligent Mazda3's "A4-style" dashboard doing the same. This time VW still seem less intelligently designed than the Mazda3. The big screen isn't set high enough like the Mazda3's pop up unit so the driver can see the road while reading it. The center of the instrument is occupied by the warning screen that keeps the 2 main gauges wide apart from each other, making the driver doing the frequent reading of the 2 main gauges together less easily at a glance.
The Mazda3 only got black or beige interior? That sucks. Give me grey, stone green, or som'in classy as seen in the Lexus & old VW/Audi. Of the few choices, I dislike the blue/black the least.
Okay, NOW I am impress with the 3
Only one exhaust pipe? Will it come in leather?
For Canadian-spec anyways, the only interior combinations are: black, beige, and sport-type (black/blue or black/red). And of course, the interior colour is dependant upon the exterior colour and trim level.
drumm01:
Yes, only one exhaust pipe. The Mazda6 isn't a true dual exhaust system anyways (it's an X-type).
Leather is available, but it's black only (not two-tone like the sport cloth).
I am taken with the wagon. Yeah, some aspects look like a few of the X-overs of other companies, but it will, of course, be much smaller, and the front end gives it a distinct look. I am in LOVE.
If its quick enough and I can fit comfortably in it (i.e., power seat to fit my 6'5" frame), then I will be taking a long hard look at this when it hits here (hopefully unchanged).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S