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But all manufacturer's have their issues. Honda has their transmission and A/C failing under the 100K mark, and Toyota has their engine oil sludge problem's on their 3.0L V6 and not honoring warranty on them if the people didn't keep receipt's on maintenence.(Who does).
Now Nissan is sending 200 engineer's to the Canton Miss. plant to inspect why the new Titan's, Quest, Armada are having low quality issues.
So overall, everyone has their gremlins...everyone has weeds, it's just more convinient to look at the neighbors yard.
Hope the pinging problem will be resolved dthomas.
IMO their only real weakness is their interiors. Awful, awful, awful. Cheap plastic crap everywhere, trim falling off, and even though it looks like they've been trying to address it they still have a way to go.
Thousands of the Windstar head gaskets failed in the mid 1990-s and Ford just let them pile up before doing a darn thing about it. They also new they had a bonafide crummy transmission piston (replacement part is turned steel - crummy part was drawn and turned aluminum) - thousands of these failed as well. However, Ford did nothing to replace any of these parts, let alone have a recall or extended warranty.
Go to some of the other forums - almost nothing about suspension parts. I know a few mechanics who say they can almost make a living just replacing tie rods, ball joints, and wheel bearings on Fords Windstars, Taurus, Tempos, and Escorts. Keep them in stock for the relentless flow of parts. Cheaply made with poor designs. Ford would have to go a long way to redesign these areas before their van will ever be considered reliable for the long term, even after fixing transmissions and engines issues.
Maybe Ford has made progress on their engines, but why not offer the best across the line ala Toyota, Honda, Nissan? Should you have to dish out 28k for a van to get a decent engine for towing purposes when you can get the high end engine on an Ody or Nissan for 22k? Ridiculous.
IMHO I think the core "customer is on their own" attitude is still there at Ford and hence I will never buy another Ford and would never recommend one to a friend.
What about those of us that have owned Ford products and never had issues with them ?
Ironically when friends ask me (because of my automotive experience in the field) for advice on a specific car, I just mention the top 3 vehicles in each segments, and all the pros and cons from them. A few had anti-Ford bias because "OH my mother had a Taurus back in 89 (here I roll my eyes)".
And sometimes I don't have to say anything... They have seen the vehicles I've had (test driven), the grueling abuse I put them through, and seeing how I haven't had any issues with them, have bought the same models.
Although sometimes I'm a bit offended when I hear "Well the way he treated his I'm amazed it didn't blow up, I should get one as well, just not his used one". It could be taken various ways. I actually had one friend go shopping for a used LS, and he specifically asked for my VIN of the previous LS I traded in, JUST to make sure he didn't buy my leftover. Rude I tell ya ....
I think most vans can and will deliver a pretty flawless 3 yrs/36k miles. After that is when the brands separate. Anything beyond the warranty period with FMC is asking for trouble IMHO. It is based on two back-to-back negative experiences with a 1989 Escort and a 1995 Windstar). Thus I gave Ford two tries, albeit in the span of a decade. Yes Ford has had 9 years to turn their quality around, but Honda and the others aren't standing still either and have had 9 years to make their product that much better as well. The gap may not be as pronounced now as it once was, but I believe it is still there.
Back to the Freestar. I still think the rear seat is not viable for anybody over 10 years of age, but I will admit there are many that never use the rear seat or just very occasional for short trips. I have a family of 6 with a few boys beyond 10 already. Being 5-6 inches shorter in leg room than the rest of the competition in the minivan segment to me is just non-competitive in the "large" minivan segment. The category of "minivan" to me must seat 7 individuals comfortably for short and long trips.
That 95 Windstar was worth a whopping $750 for the best trade offer I could get (OK it had 125k on it). I took the tax deduction and gave it away to charity. Honda vs Ford will show the Honda worth at least 1.5k - 2k more after 3 years.
When it came down to laying $22k - 24k on the table again this spring, it was a no brainer that Honda and Nissan had a superior product at a lesser price with higher resale value. Sienna was also excellent - but $2000 more.
For those of us who value money, and I happen to be one of those, I could not justify another Ford investment. I guess it goes beyond basic treatment of the customer in the past decade - the total ownership experience of acquisition cost, feature packaging, resale value, repair costs, brand backing (having recalls when appropriate/standing behind the product) - the Ford is just not a sound investment versus the current alternatives IMHO. I'm not alone - many automotive magazines and financial magazines concur that the 6 year old Odyssey design still delivers a better value than the new Freestar.
You first need a platform, the Windstar/Freestar is based on the Taurus platform. Great for crash ratings, but it's considered dated because of it's dimensions. Then we have engines...I would have preferred a modern SOHC unit, BUT the 3.9L/4.2L are the only one's that offered the power the vehicle needed...while the development for a 3.5L DOHC V6 are still being ironed out.
In the end, your always going to have someone who is more inexpensive, or more that has a feature you really value, or one has more power, or one that has more doors, etc. That's just part of the marketplace, and as consumer's, luckily we have choices...
And the competition, will make current products, better. Next generation of Ford minivans will be quite impressive. Based on a CD3 derived platform (Mazda6), and much more modern engines as well. With all the toys and gadgets possible.
ANT14: As much as we know that Ford tried the best, it does not work for everybody. Customers will look on the bottom line: Who has the best product? And that's what counts.
Nobody would say, hmmm... Toyota has such a good minivan, much better than Ford's, but I'll take a Ford because they tried very hard to make a decent minivan!...
The only think Ford can do is to lower the prices and give huge rebates (like they're doing now).
Ford Freestar/Mercury Monterey: Problems & Solutions
Steve, Host
Just off the top of my head, I wanna throw out some strategic moves to Ford AND GM AND Chrysler/Dodge:
1)make radical design changes inside and out to make your vans at least look modern and appealing! Need I say "Quest"? Style sells!
2)make radical engeering changes too. First, save all of us some trouble--just drop one kick-butt engine with kick-butt power and fuel efficiency (if you have one...if not MAKE one!) into all of your trim models, like Toyota, Honda, and Nissan all do! And while you're at it, drop in a 5-speed auto too. Or be a class leader--use a CVT transmission!
3)make all airbags(side, canopy, knee, etc), ABS and traction control standard. That takes care of the all important safety. Then make all of the cool features standard such as double power doors, power lifetgate, Stow-n-go or whatever else you wanna call it, adjustable pedals, etc. Leave the DVD and Navigation as options. And this takes care of comfort.
4)copy Hyundai's warranty!
Mass production of these extras will lower the cost. A better product will raise the price threshhold that the customers are willing fork over. Then you set the MSRP somewhere in the middle to make it an irresistable value, and you have a winner! I garrantee you if you do this you'll shut up A LOT of people. And I'll be sure to get in line to check them out.
Actually Quest sales are not at all great, and they are re-evaluating the situation since they aren't selling as well as they had first projected.
I do not think lowering the MSRP matters with all of the REBATES. I would rather see them lower the MSRP, but I think the dealers want the higher MSRP so they get more cash.
I think that STOW-N-GO is great and Ford will put it in within 3 years.
The Freestar should have had a new platform, like the Freestyle.
The domestic vans are very decent and will serve most folks just fine. But the big three will NOT hold their grounds for long if they're just satisfied with adequite vehicles. This applies to their complete line of products. Toyota already outsells Ford and is currently No 2. To compete, you have to OUTCLASS and OUTPERFORM your competitors in every way. Your products have to make your customers fall in love with them at first sight and completely blow them away.
We need somebody in Detroit who thinks radically and dares to break the rules.
Look at the Focus. It is not a radical design, just a good vehicle. FOrd knows what to do, it just needs to do it better in minivans. That being said, I really love my Freestar. I have had no problems and I like everything about it.
As for the recalls, you are mixing apples and oranges. Recalls are free repairs performed on all vehicles to correct a problem likely to occur on an very minute percentage of vehicles. Ford has issued a tremendous number of these over the past few years. The Focus may have set some sort of record in its first year. Recalls however do not necessarily correlate to long term reliability.
Someday (hopefully in my lifetime) Ford or GM will be tops in the J.D. Power survey and they will post that in every single ad they run. Of course then all of the people who have made excuses for them over the years, will suddenly jump on the bandwagon to emphasize how important the survey is.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/products/fleet_showroom/2005fleetshowr- oom/2005-freestarwagon.asp
http://www.fordaxz.com/pdf/2005_freestar.pdf
***PDF File format
I would like them to change some option packages if I'll get one. I would like to have the SES (I think it looks much better than SEL and Limited), but I would like to have the following (as a 'convenience' package or something):
- Message Center
- Heated Outside Mirrors
- 3rd Row Reading Lamps
- Rear Sensing System
- Illuminated Sun Visors
- Keyless Entry Keypad
I also hope Ford will bring back the light in the glove box, and the power/volume control of the audio system should be lighted as well.
I did not heard or read anywhere any differences between the the 2 engines (3.9 / 4.2), So I guess it shouldn't be a big difference between the two.
I think that 4.2 is a bit more noisy (truck sound), and also uses more fuel.
This is almost $3000 less than a comparably equipped 1995 Ford Windstar GL, that had less features (3 doors vs four, etc - I paid $19,600 way back then). At least the competition is driving down prices for all. Not endorsing this vehicle as a must buy - but at that price point it is a definite buy over the short wheel base Caravan and could suit many folks basic transportation needs.
The Freestar is a very good van and it has a great price point now. The Honda is very low price now too. Good time to buy either.
Bottom line, they took it back on a buyback. I had to buy another Ford product and we exchanged at MSRP. Unfortunately, that blocks you from recent rebates. Overall, we are very happy with a replacement Merc Monterey.
Good Luck,
Trainboy
I am thinking of buying in the first week of Sep. So, any historical perspective as to whether the rebates go up or down in Sep, would be appreciated as well.
Thanks,
Jim.
If you check 'consumer reatings' section of Edmunds, you'll see what I'm talking about.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/ford/freestar/100289819/ratings_c- - onsumer.html?tid=edmunds.n.crrindex...1.Ford*
I'll post some of the comments here. It's a long post, but since this board is so quiet for the last few weeks, I'll add it up with some good points from owners...
"Quiet nice ride, a great van! A big improvement over the Windstar..."
"Comfort is outstanding for a minivan along with a quiet tight ride... Better than any other minivan. The look of the 2004 Freestar stands apart from the same old bullet looking style of other minivans, It looks in a class of it's own with stylish body sculpturing, headlighting all in a hermetically attractive look..."
"I really like the way this van rides. It has a very smooth feel. The tranny shifts smoothly and the seats are very comfortable..."
"This 2004 Ford Freestar is a real winner. Rides better than a Lincoln Town Car! Gets almost 600 miles to the 26 gal tank, wow wow wow!... Very happy. The 3.9 liter engine is very powerful, excellent on the highway, good response, and holds the road... Also has a powerful stereo system... Air condition is freezing cold..."
"Not a van person but I love the Freestar... Love the room, safety features, acceleration, looks and the quiet ride..."
"Our new 2004 Freestar is much quieter, and the 4.2 liter power plant is much more responsive than the 3.8 engine of our 2000 Windstar... The instrument cluster is much nicer in the Freestar, and the fold down rear seats will eliminate many hernia operations..."
"The van has exceptional safety feature, and I have first hand experiecne. I was amazed at how well it protected my family..."
"I love how the Freestar handles. Its smooth ride is very similar to the Sienna and the two tone exterior makes it a very classy look. You forget your driving a minivan, except that you have so much room especially with the rear row tucked nicely into the floor..."
"My wife likes the easy fold up middle seats, and the pop-in-the-floor rear seat. The steering wheel controls are very good, the interior styling looks much like a BMW (!), and the center-dash controls are very good too. She likes the separate driver/passanger auto-air setting..."
"I have had many vans and cars (mostly new ones), BUT when I bought my Freestar van ..I fell in love with it... It's great! It has everything I want in a van plus more... I always make up places to go just to drive it... Thank You Ford. You out did yourselves with the new Ford Freestar..."
"I love this van !! This is my 3rd Windstar/Freestar, and I wouldn't drive anything else! It has lots of room, its great looking..."
"Great van for the do everything family. Sound systen is awesome, as well as the overall comfort of the van. Ford really did their homework on this model. Great engine with the 4.2 litre, it actually drives like a car!"
"I absolutely love my new Freestar. I have owned several Windstars and my biggest complaint was always their lack of pep. Not so with the Freestar -- its new engine size offers pep, easy handling, interior comfort and top notch safety features. I love this minivan enough to want to sell it -- being a fussy owner, that's saying a lot. Congrats to Ford on a real winner..."
"It is the most comfortable car I have ever driven, I love the interior... it's like I am in my living room. The only item I would change is to be able to open the rear window..."
"Shopped Toyota and Nissan, but the Freestar had superior features, safety and price. suprised how much I like this van! this is my first Ford but not my last!..."
"This vehicle is wonderful! I have owned Caravan, Windstar and 2 Explorers before this. As a mother of grown & nearly grown children & new grandma I am probably not a typical minivan owner. The ride is the smoothest yet and everything is at my fingertips. It is fun to drive and I am proud to own it..."
"Owned a Windstar previously, No comparison! Not only enjoyable to drive, but the bigger engine gives the Freestar new energy..."
"I love everything about the Freestar... I think Ford needed this van for a long time and when this they made this one they made the best... Thank you Ford, this van is a keeper..."
"We disagree with some of Editor's review. Even though we've only had this vehicle a short time, driving is a definite pleasure; even better than our Taurus. We do have almost all options on our vehicle; most importantly, all of the safety features available. Have plenty of power for both around town and highway driving..."
As far as the Zone Rep, we are in north part of Southern California. Pretty strict lemon laws. If the Zone guy gives you grief, ask to speak to his boss. Keep a log and ask for phone numbers. Also ask for guaranteed call back time. Also, if the Zone guy is a bum, then get in the dealer's face and stay there. My sales rep was a nice guy and he told the sales manager, "these people are not going away, deal with them".
thx.
Aceman
Doors on the sliders are fixed; i.e. glued in.
I realize this is all subjective!
thx in advance...
Aceman
We have about 6,700 miles on our limited. We love the unit. The wife and I recently drove round trip to Wilmington, NC. from Buffalo, NY area. Averaged 22MPG according to the computer. Then we just got back last week from Branson, MO. Averaged 22.7MPG according to the computer. While driving the hills in Branson (in tourist traffic), we averaged 16-16.3MPG. Not bad at all since it's real close to what Ford specs out which is normally higher than one gets in reality. I am going to be installing AMSOIL synthetic lubes and a water injection system on the 4.2, hopefully this weekend to see if that will boost it up even more. Since the RPMs average 2500 at cruising speed, I will be tuning it for that RPM range. Our 1994 Aerostaer extended van that the Freestar replaced averaged 26-30MPG on the highway with the 3.0 which was no slouch at 247,000 miles.
Nope, it's a Monterey exclusive.