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Comments
-Andrew L
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Where are they?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Me: "I really like that new Mazda 6"
Him: "Oh ya? Do they put that in the Protege now?"
Me: "No, thats the name of the model - Mazda 6"
Him: "Hmmm, I've always preferred a 4 cylinder for around town myself."
They just need to get their marketing department a subscribtion to every car magazine out there, have them read their suggestions and implement most of them.
They need to fire anyone who still wants to compete with Toyota or Honda, and stick to the sporty theme with a vengeance.
The mazda 6 has a perfectly acceptable name everywhere else in the world. It is called the Mazda Atenza. I can pronounce it fine, can't you?
It seems from recent news that there has been a small shakeup in the Mazda North America marketing department, so who knows, maybe they will finally get it right over the next few years.
Maybe they can help Ford out.
Mazda went the alpha-numeric route that several other manufacturers have gone (BMW, Mercedes,Acura, Cadillac etc..) so that people would focus on the MAZDA name.
Mazda has very poor brand recognition. The name "Miata" is broadly known, but a surprising number of people can't say who manufactures it. That's a real problem.
Moving to a numeric model designation forces people to say MAZDA when they name the car. Like it or not, that's the motivation behind dropping names like "Protege" and "626".
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
MX-5/Miata/Roadster will probably keep its name, as it has the honor of the best selling roadster in the world, ever.
and all rotary cars will have the RX designation :-)
maybe they'll rename the MPV the 9, but that's just a wild guess
MY: 2003
Make: Mazda
Model: Unknown
I guess that makes me a UFO.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well, that explains a lot...since it is such a big seller in Europe, maybe the name has nothing at all to do with it. Maybe Americans just value size and mushiness more than anything else? It disgusts me.
There has to be some reason they don't sell well here in the US. Maybe it is what my last post said. I don't know.
They sell very reliable, sharp looking, sporty vehicles, that may be a little smaller than the competition. They usually sell for a good price. Is the Ford influence that bad?
2.)Mazda has been out of the spotlight so long people have forgotten about them.
3.)Koreans: With the korean auto manufacturer's offering 10 year warranty's it makes Mazda as a 2nd tier brand a tough sell.
4.)Mazda trying to regain their sporty image with buyers. Mazda lost 2 generations of people in the mid 90's. The loyal Mazda buyer of the late 80's/early 90's defected to Honda and Toyota. Mazda had really no youth cars in 1995 except the MX-6. In 95 the young people were buying Accords and Civic's.
Bottom line: the next 5 years are crucial to Mazda. If they can sell good the next 5 years they'll be ok.
Other then the people who populate car boards, there are probably about 3 people in North America who are even aware of this issue. This is way, way overblown in my opinion. If a "Ford" trasmission is horrible and such a sales killer, how can they sell 800,000 F-150's a year with Ford transmissions in them.
Reliability is of course a key concern for most import buyers, but this re-occurring claim that the average consumer thinks, 'Oh, I'm not going to go buy a Mazda because of that whole 1994 ford sutomatic transmission in the 626 thing" is ridiculous.
2.)"Mazda has been out of the spotlight so long people have forgotten about them."
Agreed.
3.)"Koreans: With the korean auto manufacturer's offering 10 year warranty's it makes Mazda as a 2nd tier brand a tough sell."
Agreed. Everyone is losing market share to the Koreans as theirs increases.
4.)"Mazda trying to regain their sporty image with buyers. Mazda lost 2 generations of people in the mid 90's. The loyal Mazda buyer of the late 80's/early 90's defected to Honda and Toyota. Mazda had really no youth cars in 1995 except the MX-6. In 95 the young people were buying Accords and Civic's."
Sorta agree. Mazda also had the Precidia and a still relatively inexpensive Miata.
"Bottom line: the next 5 years are crucial to Mazda. If they can sell good the next 5 years they'll be ok."
No offence, but aren't the next five years crucial for every automaker?
Mazda isn't one of them.
Not everyone is losing market share to the Koreans - some companies are still gaining market share year after year. However certain companies are losing LARGE CHUNKS of market share. Some do not have large chunks to give.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Gaining little chunks of market share little by liittle: Nissan, Ford, Kia, and Hyundai.
Losing market share little by little: Mitsu, Mazda, GM, and VW.
Losing huge chunks of market share: Chrysler.
It's time for all the medium-size players, mazda among them, to pick on VW. As the number of years of really problematic VW cars lengthens to a decade or so now, it may be time to foment a buyer revolt! Mazda could benefit from that - sporty, nice offerings right in some of the same segments as bread-and-butter VWs.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Are they kidding? With all of the problems they had with window regulators and windows falling into the doors, why would they want people to possibly remember that with an add campaign called "windows down, stereos up"? Yeah, maybe the windows will be down and the stereo will be up, but not because customers wanted them to be.....lol
I hope Mazda does take a chunk of out VWs [non-permissible content removed]. VW deserves it. If there is any company that doesn't deserve their success, it's VW IMO and if there's any company that deserves to sell more cars than they do, it's Mazda. VW makes some appealing products, but I don't think I have ever heard of a brand where so many owners cry lemon and swear to never, ever, buy one again. VW customer loyalty has to be pretty poor right now.
I still say they could compete with the Camcords but they have to bulge out that interior a tad. Right now, I'd say their powertrains have (finally) become competitive.
And that's a good start.
ice
How about a Mazda6?
Dinu
NO!!!! The Mazda6 is the perfect size. I don't think I could own a bigger car. The new Camry looks like a Hummer next to the Mazda6.
As far as VW is concerned the 02+ Passat is a very beautiful looking car but aside from that all the rest of their cars have very poor reliability. All the rest of their products are very crisply styled including the Audi line but the reliability problems are really bad.
As far as the Camry is concerned the car is big enough. I hope when Toyota releases the next generation Camry they don't put any more room in it. I don't need to feel like I am driving an 80's full size domestic. The 6 is as roomy as a 94-97 Honda Accord which is good enough for me. If I want a car with lots of room in it I'll go buy a Pontiac Boneville or a Lincoln LS.
Now the new 6 has more power and that's a good thing. And the style is very good (at last). And I'm also sure the handling is top-notch for what it is - à la Mazda (remember, I'm a convert). And they're a little bigger than they used to be (I sat in one a little while back & was impressed). All good things.
So I agree it's a good car - it's just not for me. And it's because of the size. Alright, I'm not the market but I contend that the 6 is not going to stack up favourably against the market it's aimed at: the people who are buying mid-sized cars. The Camry, Accord, Impala, Taurus, Altima, and Malibu - all cars in the top 10 in sales - are all significantly larger than the new 6. The remainder of the top 10? Corolla, Civic, & Cavalier - all decidedly smaller.
Where's the 6 size-wise? Comparable to the Focus, Passat, and the Mitsu Gallant - and almost as big as the Saturn L. Apart from the Focus, none of these are market rockets - and, don't forget, the Focus is Ford's "small" car while the 6 is Mazda's "big" car and I think the Mazda can compete well with the Ford - I just somehow suspect that Mazda's target's a little loftier. Er... and bigger.
I agree that there's a darned good chance that I'm off base here. What the heck, this is and open discussion. Right?
ice
"The Camry, Accord, Impala, Taurus, Altima, and Malibu - all cars in the top 10 in sales - are all significantly larger than the new 6."
Honestly, I wouldn't own any of those cars and I'm not sure the Malibu is bigger than the 6, but who cares anyway? I hope people aren't cross shopping the Malibu and 6. The Camry is great, it just isn't me. The Accord is great, but it looks weird IMO. The Altima looks cheap inside and out, IMO. The Impala and Taurus are too rental car. The Mazda6 is perfect. Not too big, not too small. Drives like a dream. Looks cool, sounds cool. Handles very well. For the money and for what I want, perfection.
The Tarus is old and so is the Malibu. The Accord is too big now. Last generation model was big enough.
As far as Mazda's edge is concerned Mazda's are for people who don't need the room of a Honda or a Toyota and like more sophisticated styling than a Honda or Toyota. Like I said before Mazda tried to be roomy before with the mid 90's Protege and it bombed. Why would Mazda do something again that was a bomb before? It makes no sense in doing that. The next generation Protege was smaller and sold more.
The VW Passat sells what 100,000 units a year? That doesn't sound bad.
Mazda weak sales are because of bad Ford Tranny's that damaged Mazda's reputation and the last generation 626 really didn't sell well. Mazda needs time to rebuild iself. When Mazda was going through their 1st phase of their rebuilding process the Koreans with their 10 year warranty's were taking more market share making Mazda a tough sell as a 2nd tier Competitor to Honda and Toyota. Mazda is now going on their second phase of rebuilding.
I don't get how the 6 is too small. Its the perfect size.
The Chevy Cavilier because its based on a platform from the 80's. The Chevy Cavilier is light years behind a 6. The Focus could be comparable.
If you want a car with a lot room there's always the Domestics.
Let's face it, Mazda has to get its buyers from somewhere. The 6 isn't really positioned as an entry level car and Mazda doesn't have enough of its own customers to make the 6 a sales success. So, they've got to convince somebody else's buyers to try the 6.
But to do that, it has to get top of mind first and then get cross-shopped. Getting top of mind means hitting their target markets with advertising but also getting positive reviews from the ocean of car reviews in all sorts of publications (newspapers, magazines (not always auto ones either), Consumer Reports, etc.). From what I've read about the 6 in these sources, the journalists are almost unanimously glowing about the 6. Most also point out that the 6 is smaller - while some point out that it is more expensive in its base form - than the Accord or Altima.
Perhaps the best conclusion was one article I read that said something to the effect that "sure it's smaller but the 6i is decidedly sportier and therefore is not a direct competitor to...".
The problem with that - if the market really sees it that way - is that the Camry, Accord, Altima, et al represent one honkingly huge market. I don't think Mazda really intended to distinguish its bread and butter sedan out of this market.
Unless it's hoping that the market for "middle class enthusiast cars" (as one article I read labelled the 6) is sufficiently large.
Time will tell. In the meantime, you've got yourself a nice car - did you get the 6 or the 4? Manual or Auto?
ice
It does match or beat the Altima and Accord in at least one catagory.
#1 It's more fun to drive than either of them
#2 The interior is better than the Altima
#3 It looks better than either of them IMO.
Take all 3 equally equipped sedans on a track and ..... oh, wait, you can't .... Honda doesn't offer a V6 Accord sedan with a stick .... so much for looking at speed from them, huh?
Base V6 Altima is $1400 more... I would expect to get SOMETHING more for that money. So you get a bigger engine.
Everything else is subjective, so I'll stay away from fun factor, etc.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
My 130HP 01 Protege is a blast to drive and has plenty of power to go 100+mph. My 91 Maxima w/160HP V6 cruises at 3000RPMs at 90mph and is so quiet you can barely feel you're going that fast. A faster car will only get you in trouble - if you don;t feel like you're moving you tend to go faster, which in most jurisdictions automatically activates blue and red lights behind you...
As for size, the 6 is great - roomier than a PRO, not as huge as a Maxima/Accord/Camry. Great to maneuver around town and to cruise on the highway.
Dinu
I also don't think sales success in the intermediate car segment is about speed. Horsepower is a number that most people don't understand. But the manufacturers have to post good numbers because people do compare them: "Oh, looky, the Altima has 240 horsepower!" But only handfulls of enthusiasts look at gearing, final drive ratio, or curb weight. My experience is that most people would view all these numbers as closely competitive and make their decision based on other things.
Heck, if the Mazda 6 is a dollar late and a penny shy at 220 hp, where does that put the 210 hp Camry?
As important as they are, I doubt if ponies or even "tossability" alone can sell many cars in this market. This segment is, after all, for mid-sized 4 door sedans. And manufacturers sell a heckuva lot of 4 bangers with auto trannies in this market. Which is consistent with the meat of the market being economy-minded families, not youthful enthusiasts.
Mazda's obviously taking a different tack. And the future appearance of a sportswagon will only make it a little more interesting...
ice
I agree with Iceman, that while big hp numbers sound nice, it's probably some other aspect that ultimately sells the car.
The Protege 5 is really nice - as is the 6 - and the RX8 also looks like a winner. It's all good - now. Two years ago? Different story.
But that might just be my perspective.
I am sure you will find a Lincoln Navigator just as maneuverable as Mazda6 because both have the turning diameter of 38.7ft.
OTOH, the supposedly huge Camry does a full circle in 34.8ft - which is less than that of a Mini Cooper!!!. Even the Altima beats Mazda6 by 1 feet.
Most people are baffled how an Accord I-4 can get better performance *and* gas mileage on a car with bigger interior compared MZ6 - Mazda/Ford engineers can't figure it out either.
Bottomline: with Mazda6 you do not get any advantages with it;s smaller size except handling.
FWIW, an '85 Caprice also has a turning circle of 38.7 feet. But it's not going to handle as well as a 6 (although it may out-slalom a Navigator!). That's going to depend on things like the tires, wheels, suspension, steering ratio and response, etc.
As for the Accord, one reason it may get such good gas mileage is that it has a 5-speed automatic. In 5th gear, it's effective final ratio is something like 2.0:1, whereas most comparable cars are probably more like 2.4-2.6:1, once they get into overdrive. The Accord can get out on the highway and loaf, burning very little fuel, but when you need the power, you can stomp on it and take advantage of the lower gears. Pontiac used to do some of the same tricks back in the 60's, and got better mileage and performance out of their engines than Chevy, Ford, and Mopar did out of some of their much smaller engines in competing cars.
And that's what I care about.
The Protege has worse gas mileage than the Civic/Rolla but it makes you feel like you're driving a car not sitting on top of a soap bar that's being pushed downhill.
Bottom line for me and many Mazda enthusiasts: I still fill-up once a week in the Protege, just like I did in my Civic and Tercel (back in highschool), so that argument doesn't fly too high - yes I'd rather spend $5-10 more/week and drive a fun car.
As far as the turning circle goes, I don't see anyone complaining about how hard the car is to park or take turns in the city - you adjust to the car.
Bigger interior is great - if you wanna haul a hockey team, but I bet that the vast majority of people drive alone or with only one passenger over 90% of the time. For many, a family car doesn't need to be a land barge (the new Camry).
Dinu
New models ranked by passenger volume
A car can compensate for a deficit of 1 or 2 cu. ft. by just having a very well designed interior and easier door openings.
About turning radius my Acura CL has a large turning radius.
2 years ago: 2001 well Mazda had the Pro 5 that was debuting as an 02 model in the US than there was the Protege MP3. The Tribute is a nice looking SUV that debut for the 2001 model year.
Aboyt Gas Mileadge Honda's always have gotten great gas mileadge because their technology is just so good.
In the early 90s, Mazda was tops as far as design went but that evaporated within a few short years. Let's hope that history doesn't repeat itself.
I hope they figure it out and change the mix of the cars they are producing, but the businessweek article is already calling the intro of the 6 "botched"...
The RX8 is available any day now...hopefully it will be on fire and get some people interested in mazda.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)