Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?

bean3422

Mazda does not have the engine experience or budget that Honda has. Not a big deal. Even a hard core Mazda fan like myself will admit that Honda builds good engines...

On the other hand, they engineer good engines, but somehow they can't engineer the "soul" into their cars like Mazda. Mazda can take a loaner "block" from Ford, and by the time they are done with the whole car, it has that tiny little extra "something" that makes all the difference. I can't explain it, and if you don't get it, then you probably never will.

As far as the turning circle goes, there are so many variable that go into a turning circle that you certainly cannot judge a car by that. Even changing tires to a wider tire will affect the turning circle. (I will make it wider, but trust me, it does not make the car handle worse!)

AMBULL...as much as we complain about it, I think the pre-order program with the RX-8 was a good thing. It let them know as least at first how many manuals to make. (And if you check the future dealer inventories around the country, you will find a majority are 6-speed sticks.)

fezo

No, they certainly don't determine sportiness or such. My old Volvos had the tightest turning circles you'd see but weren' exactly sporty....

tboner

The real question is what is the fastest speed you can turn in that circle?

TB

ambull

I dunno about around the country, but I did check a few dealers in my area last night, and yes, the great majority (80%) of RX-8s were manuals. I was kinda suprised to see fewer cloth than automatics. Did you notice that?

alternator

Isn't it odd that that Business Week article is dated July 14, 2003?
It's still July 10 where I'm at.

guest

In my opinion the way its going Mazda will probably sell 52,000 6's this year.

davem2001

Yep, and that's for the basic 2.5L 150hp version - the one with the "upmarket" engine will definitely be more than a TSX...no wonder they aren't selling

dondilio

I recently read here on the internet that Ford will use the same 3.0 duratec with vvt on the Mazda6, in their upcoming Futura and the Five Hundred sedans, and that they could manage to "massage" 245hp of that engine. I suppose Mazda will beneficiate from this increase in hp. Then in 1 1/2 - 2 years the 3.5 duratec will be ready, which can produce up to 290 hp. If anyone haves further information post it, in the meantime I'll check and find that article again.

While I look for the article check these ones:
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=15897
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=15897

importfan14

"In my opinion the way its going Mazda will probably sell 52,000 6's this year."

I agree there. I think the sales are speaking for themselves that boy-racerish styling, and underpowered, subpar engines are not what the majority of buyers are looking for.

guest

As we all know Mazda really messed themselves up on the 6 with the launch. I think Mazda has learned from that. As for Mazda engines the 6 people like to say well it doesn't go against the Honda Accord Engine very well but who is going to beat Honda in Engines? Nobody so thiat kind of comparison is unfair.

The Corolla has boy-racer racer styling and everybody is buying it mostly the older crowd though.

ashutoshsm

Since styling is subjective (and I happen to think the Mazda 6 is one of the classiest, if not the best-looking automobile in its class!) - I'll ignore that.

But and underpowered, subpar engines are not what the majority of buyers are looking for. is just hilarious

nippononly

the corolla being said to have "boy racer styling" (????!!!!)

theiceman

Yeah, I don't get that either.

dinu01

All that body cladding:

- exaggerated side skirts that would chop your legs if the car came too close to you
- the rear bumper add-on that seems to have tried out at the National Snow Removal Competition and failed: only the sides were low.

You think we're joking? Take a look at this:

http://www.velocityjrnl.com/ip/stk/4359.html

and

http://www.velocityjrnl.com/ip/stk/4360.html

Funny how Toyora tries to spice thei bland models - adding tons of pastic, but still keeps high-profile tires on.

Cheers!
Dinu

nippononly

are to keep the ride comfy...which is the Toyota priority...which is why corolla will never compete for sport with the other entries in the segment...but I can't fault Toyota for at least trying to make their models look more exciting.

Pro5s are everywhere now - like those cars! Why oh why did Mazda wait until mid-cycle to introduce this model to the U.S.?

landru2

front and rear valences that don't meet in the middle? I thought that sticking on plastic bits to make a car "sporty" went out in the 80's.

lichtronimo

and the reason for slow sales has to be its size compared to Altima, Accord and Camry. Even the Passat feels bigger.

ashutoshsm

I found the Mazda6 to be roomier inside (especially the back seat) than the Passat, and the back seat is a lot more comfortable (angle, raking, backrest angle, seat leangth) than the Acford or Altima - to me anyway. Sometimes legroom doesn't tell you the whole story!

dinu01

When it comes to cars, the Camry is just too big. The M6 is just perfect. If you have a family it doesn't mean you must drive a big car, but one designed intelligently.

Dinu

nippononly

I agree with you totally, but we are both at odds with the trend in the NA market, which is toward needlessly large SUVs...to American buyers, bigger is always better, unfortunately.

They always said the reason the first gen Altima didn't sell as well as its main competitors was that it was a quarter or half size smaller than them. Hence, the significant enlargement for the current gen, and whoops! Sales took off. (of course, power had something to do with this too)

guest

No, the first generation Altima(93-97)did sell very well. The 98-01 Altima was found too be to bland looking on the outside by most consumers. Remember thats when Nissan in the mid to late 90's started to make the cars look blander on the outside. Nissan thought they were going to gain market share by doing that then they lost lots of sales by being bland(95 Sentra, 95 Maxima, and 98 Altima)in the mid to late 90's. With that said Nissan is very dangerous right now since they have returned to their roots on exterior styling.

The reason why Toyota sells alot of cars is because of their reputation. Nothing much else. The 6 is the same size as the Accord was 2 generations ago. Its just that the Accord has gotten bigger since then. The 03 Accord and 02 Camry have the interior room of a Pontiac Boneville. The Accord and Camry are nearing full-size territory. The 6 is mid-size at least it would have been Mid-Size 5 years ago.

To compare of a Nissan Altima of 93 to an 02+ Altima is a little awkward and shouldn't even be compared.

Finally, the 99+ Protege didn't sell that well when it first came out. Sales took off in 01. The 6 is doing better where I live than the Protege did when it first debut with the new bodystyle in 98.

The Passat does have good interior room but still looks compact which is pretty cool.

nippononly

it is a good idea to compare the 6 with things of two generations ago...it is more relevant to compare it with its peers in its price range now...for people who buy on room as a top priority, it probably does not help if the 6 is smaller than the others...if the corolla has the same amount of space for instance, people prioritizing room might likely buy the cheaper model...

PLEASE bear in mind this is only a hypothetical example to make a point. I will bet corolla is in reality smaller. But my original point was that size matters to a significant portion of the NA market, and that will be true no matter how slick the product.

guest

If size mattered the 95 Protege wouldn't have flopped like it did. I just think Mazda always has slow launches with cars. The option packages the way they were set-up on the 6 were very poor. Nissan has crazy option packages but Nissan can get away with that for some reason while Mazda can't.

I have analyzed Mazda sales of late. The reason why they are down right now is because the Protege in its last year of bodystyle. Also, Mazda sales were down overall in 2002 because the 626 was in its last year of bodystyle and a new Camry and Altima came out. So once Mazda get the new 3 established and the 6 is on the market longer Mazda sales will go up again I think.

I think the 3 is going to be like the 6 when it first debuts since Mazda is going to launch the 3 in January. Along with the name change from Protege to 3 the 3 I don't think will sell well at first but hopefully sell well in the long run. I think Mazda has a good future long-term wise but not anything in that short-term.

nippononly

people had reported that the new 6 is not selling any better than the old 626? If this is the case, it is hard to see how sales will rise as the new model ages.

Now it is possible that the new 3 will sell better than the Pro. It seems like a slick little car - let's hope they launch it well.

guest

The 6 is selling alot better than it when it first came out. The old 626 sold what 50,000 a year(98-02 version) so Mazda wants to up that to 70,000 to 80,000 6's a year. It takes a while for a car to be established. The 6 is selling better than the 626 did last year at this time so yes the 6 is selling better. To me Mazda got lost in the shuffle when the whole SUV trend hit big in the mid 90's.

I have seen pictures of the 3 and I'm not happy with the pictures I saw. The front end ruins the whole look of the car buy I'll wait for my judgement when the finished product comes out.

hjr2

They closed two down in past year, now only one left, in Dayton,Ohio. Rest are 90 miles away, south , east, or north.. Well, One is in Columbus, 80 miles from Dayton. One in Indy, 120 miles away.

newcar31

They have plenty of them here in the Twin Cities, 4 or 5 I think. Maybe Dayton isn't big enough to support more than one Mazda dealer.

nippononly

for most cars it seems to me they sell hottest when they are new - that has been the case for every gen of the Accord and Camry, as well as the latest Altima, and even for new models like the Z car and the G35.

As for the 6, I really wish autosite would update its sales report from May 31, but as of that date, Mazda had sold 18,398 6's, which when projected over the year nets them 44,155 sales for 2003 (if sales continue at that rate). And for 626, you should really use the last full year of sales, which would be 2001, because once it is known a car is due to be replaced, sales of the "old" model drop off.

Now that it has been a year since launch, I think it is safe to say that 6 is a disappointment to Mazda in the U.S. Of course, it is selling like gangbusters everywhere else, where its smaller size probably is a huge point in its favor. Perhaps if Mazda's aim is to produce smaller, sportier cars in each segment, their profitable future lies in Europe and Asia rather than the U.S.

qbrozen

Is 44K units bad? When the WRX premiered, they shot for 15K units, then bumped it to 18K, then up to 22K, and subaru (and critics) considered that to be a huge success.

ashutoshsm

Someone somewhere (on anotehr Edmunds discussion) reported a huge sales spurt for the 6 in June - over 7K if not 8K? ANyone recall who/where?

That pushes them a bit higher for annual sales, although some Mazda higher-up expressed disappointment over the NA sales and the botched intro - and the top gyu lost his job!

guest

Not where I live. Maybe somewhere out in Vermont or something but here no.

Also the 6 sold 7,000 + units in June and sold 6,242 units last month in July. The next year or 2 6 sales should go up. The botch intro and option packages were a big reason for the sales dissapointment early for the 6. The 6 has sold 32,297 units to date. That 18,000 figure is old.

Also I do agree Mazda dealerships are spread very apart. In New Jersey there is really none by the Jersey Shore(none that I know of anyway.) In Central Jersey there is alot so the 6 is doing well in Central Jersey where I live. In Northern Jersey there is really no Mazda Dealers except for East Coast Mazda on RT 17 in Wood-ridge, NJ but thats about it.

Also, 6 buyers tend to be younger than Camry and Accord buyers. The Accord used to used to be a youth car but not anymore.

graphicguy

SInce I'm new to the "Mazda Club", I can say I was never drawn towards the Mazda dealership for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, there is all of two Mazda dealerships in my vicinity. Honda and Toyota have double the number of dealerships. The Big 3 have triple the number of dealerships in the same geography.

So, around here you really have to seek the Mazda dealerships out.

Second, before the Protege, the 6 and the RX8 there was very little that I would have considered in the Mazda lineup. I don't think I've seen one TV commercial for any Mazda product. They do have some marketing in the "trade rags", but certainly no radio nor TV. I'm in a larger city in Southwest OH, so media accessability should be fairly available.

With all the great press Mazda products have had over the last 12 months, and the positive comparisons against its rivals (Toyota, Honda) I would suspect that they would be sought out more than in times past. I'd say give the brand another 3 months or so and more and more people would venture into their showrooms.

Just having purchased an RX8, I've seen more people come to my dealership just to oggle the RX8 and leave with the keys to a 6 or Protege.

I also have to give Mazda credit for making their "tuner" are more accessability than with Toyota and Honda, too. Both dealerships in my area are MAZDASPEED certified.

Long and short of it, it seems that Mazda is tarkgeting more the "sports car" enthusiast rather than the vanilacar buyer.

dinu01

"Long and short of it, it seems that Mazda is tarkgeting more the "sports car" enthusiast rather than the vanilacar buyer"

And as long as they keep making affordable, fun to drive and well-styled cars they got a Mazda-buyer for life out out me.

Dinu

nippononly

the sales numbers as reported above for the 6 for June and July, that only extrapolates to 54,240 sales for the year. With Mazda hoping to boost sales to 70,000 per year with the new model, it qualifies as a disappointment if the new model can only sell 4000 or 5000 more per year than the old 626.

Now it is true that RX8 is going to be around more and more as a presence at Mazda dealers after the initial shipments get sold, and maybe that will bring in more customers.

guest

I have seen a couple RX-8's on the road both black(could have been the same one) but I doubt it. The last one I saw with the new car plates was like 3 weeks ago. I saw a yellow 6 outside my local dealership. Its not there anymore. Could have sold it already.

Everybody says how the 6 doesn't have interior room. The Chrysler Sebring is kinda cramped too. My Dad has one. I had a 98 626 which on the outside which looked smaller than the 01+ Sebring. The Sebring has a little more front legroom than the last generation 626 but backseat room in both cars is about equal.

Going back to the subject of 626 vs 6 sales. I have seen stats from the 2001 model year and the 626 sold 50,000+ units.

Does anybody know how many units Mazda wants the RX-8 to sell in the US yearly?

Mazda has so many new products coming out its just crazy. First the 6 than 7 months later the RX-8 debut than 6 months after that the 3 debuts.

logic1

It is a very good looking vehicle. Much better looking in person than photos. The roatary engine turns me off a little. Reviews say this version of the engine is much more enjoyable -- and economical -- than earlier manifestations.

guest

The previous generations of Rx-7's with the rotary had problems with emissions. I think Mazda has taken care of that. I'll agree the RX-8 looks alot better in person than in photo's. The first RX-8 I saw on the road I was like thats my dream car. If Mazda made an All-Wheel Drive version of the RX-8 my Acura CL would be traded in a few years. I would take the RX-8 with the 5 speed automatic if it only had AWD.

nippononly

you'd give up 50 hp to have the auto?

It is hard to stand out in the compact segment, but 3 is a really nice little car from all accounts...I hope the launch goes better, and sales increase significantly over Protege...I know there will be a 3 hatch...will it be 3-door or 5? Even though the Protege has to go, I wish they could keep the Pro5 around a little longer...

guest

I love the Pro 5. I think the 3 hatch will be a 5dr at least thats what it says it will be in the Future Vehicles Section.

Yeah, If Mazda has the option packages straightened out on the 3 the launch should go over better than the 6 did. I think the 3 will stand out. The compact segment is a hard segment because the 03 Corolla has raised the bar even though my personal choice in that segement is still the Protege. I left Mazda right when they started to make exciting vehicles.

dinu01

"Mazda was the second fastest growing marque in Europe in the first half of 2003"

http://www.waitnews.com/mazda3_european_debut.htm

Dinu

nippononly

are those rims on the 3 hatch? That car looks sweet.

dinu01

Come visit us in the Mazda3 Sedan forum and 5DR HB forum for more pics!

I suspect 17" will go on the 2.3L variant of the 5Dr HB.

Dinu

nippononly

regfootball

the mazda 6 has good room in it. better than passat for sure.

guest

rust problems with new 6. Mazda just keeps on figuring out ways to lauch new products unsucessfully. HP miscalculations with Rx-8. Mazda just kills itself all the time. They make great styled cars and appealing products but when its time to launch a new product they always figure out new and off the wall ways to mess up new product launches. I never recall a company(not even the Big 3 in the 80's) mess up product launches the way Mazda does it especially in the last 10 years. Mazda messing up goes all the way back to 94 with the Ford Tranny's in the 4 cyl auto Mx-6 and 626's self destructing. The 99 Miata HP miscalculation. The 03 6's crazy option packages. I mean how hard is it to make simple option packages choices? Oh then to top it off the whole rust thing now. I thought rust on cars was left in the 80's. This is embarassing for Mazda with the whole rust issue on 03 6's. Will Mazda ever get their act straightened out?

hjr2

Dayton has 250,000 people, and the surrounding county has another 500,000= 3/4qtrs of a million people within a 1/2 hour drive of Dayton.

They have 2 Hyundai dealerships, 2 Kia, 2 Nissan,
5 Toyota and 3 Honda dealerships, not to mention 2 Suzuki, (had?) 2 Subaru,... there are enough people buying cars to support more than one Mazda dealership in Dayton.

Problem is, Hyundai, Kia kind of stole some of their sales.

I like the new Mazda 3 that is cominbg out, and the 3 door hatch sounds more like what I'd want.
Problem is, when loaded to what Most customers want these days, the thing is rumored to go up to $21,000 MSRP.
It is sad that they have only 1 dealership, to be honest.
I remember back in 1986-87, we looked at Mazda vehicles, and they were too costly, to us...
they should have been priced more like Nissan.

I dunno.

guest

Mazda's are priced a little bit less than Nissan's I think. Mazda's are pretty reliable cars. I think the 3 will go up to 20K with Navigation. The pics of the 3 do look good. I hope there is no rust problem though.

PF_Flyer

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the_big_h

from all the Mazda-doubters at the chat...

PF_Flyer

As long as people can be civil, we can disagree about things....

But they should come looking to have a little fun as well!

on't miss the newest addition to our live chat events here in Town Hall. Join us every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!

Whether you own a Mazda, would like to own a Mazda, or just like going ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM... be sure to stop by and meet and greet your fellow Town Hall users!

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