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1. Rebadged Ford Rangers sold as Mazda B series turcks - Pieces of Junk
2. Rebadged Ford Escape sold as Mazda Tribute - not much better than a piece of junk. Drives great, but limitless niggling defects and problems
3. Rebadged Protege sold as Escort - great cars, great engines, disappointing electricals and body finish/quality (the only Ford parts)
4. Rebadged MX-6's sold as Ford Probes - see #3 above.
Conclusion - Ford has a bunch of things they can learn from Mazda, and so its worth it to them
Mazda has a lot to learn about keeping business profitable, and is learning it from Ford, hopefully without entirely selling its soul to the corporate, bottom-line mentality
Just Ford $$$ >>> Mazda YYY
Pity.
That would explain it better because the Mazda's I have seen didn't look like the Escort my Mom had. 87-97 180,000 miles fuel pump and water pump replaced. And then it went on in the family until 2001 when it was sold out of family. Had over 200,000 miles on it, didn't use any oil.
To my eye, Mazda had the best-looking cars at the show. And for the price range, the 3 is loaded and still manages to have the nicest interior I saw in any non-luxury brands and some luxury ones too. VW excepted. But Golf-Jetta are more expensive than the 3 sedans.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Don't miss the newest addition to our live chat events here in Town Hall. Join us every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!
Whether you own a Mazda, would like to own a Mazda, or just like going ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM... be sure to stop by and meet and greet your fellow Town Hall users! (We may even pull out some Mazda triva questions)
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"IRVINE, Calif., Dec. 2 /PRNewswire/ -- Mazda North American Operations (MNAO) today reported sales of 19,306 units in November -- a 21.9 percent increase versus the same period last year. The increase was the best November year-over-year jump for Mazda in the past decade.
The company's strong month was led by its sporty Miata roadster, which posted a 32.6 percent increase in November sales. In addition, Mazda reported sales of 6,180 units for its MAZDA6 flagship sedan. Sales of the MAZDA6, which celebrated it one-year anniversary in November, continue to build momentum."
Dinu
It does seem as if Mazda mis-planned the availability of Pro5 a bit, at least judging by my local dealers, who have dozens of them left on their lots and are running "fire sales" on Pro5s with prices advertised as low as $12K.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Also the increase of Miata sales what brought that on? I wonder if Mazda is just cleaning out excess inventory which is leading to good sales or the what the deal is. I know if I was 19 years old I would want a Pro 5 though.
$2500 cash back or 0% financing IIRC.
Thats the thing that hurts Mazda is the incentives. The import buyer always looks for great resale value on cars something Mazda has never had. Honda and Toyota and even Nissan spend alot less on incentives than Mazda does. I would like to see Mazda sells cars for 500 dollars over invoice with no discounts like Subaru, VW, and Honda do. With Toyota there is actually discounting on remaining 03 Camry's: 1,000 dollars cash back, and 04 Camry's 750 dollars cash back. There is also discounts on 4 4runners not sure if its remaining 03 model's or 04's though. Also have seen 750 dollars cash on Highlander. Nissan has a 1500 dollar cash back on Sentra, and Xterra but no discounts on Altima.
Just a reminder that every Thursday you can join the Subaru Crew for a chat session from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Stop in to talk about Subaru or just to say hello!... We had a great turnout last week, but there's always room for more, so stop by and join in this week! Hope to see you there!!
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if you want factory incentives, look at GM ;-) ;-)
Why? See the review below from TCC, daily news, dec8,03
If they could do this..... then they'd gain more customers.
2004 Kia Amanti
A luxurious sedan marks a real departure for Korea’s number two.
by Bob Hall (2003-12-08)
SAN DIEGO- Say Kia to most people and you'll get predictable responses, something on the order of, "Korean cars like Hyundais, right?" Or "they make cheap cars for college kids and have that big warranty."
So what's your response as a knowledgeable auto enthusiast? How about, "they're good entry-level cars with a great warranty and now they're making a minivan and a sport-ute too." If you're really good you can identify the latter as the Sedona and Sorento, respectively.
Prepare to seriously re-examine your Kia pre-conceptions, brothers and sisters. For the Amanti is coming soon to a Kia dealer (they hope, an exclusive one) near you. The "premium big sedan" is not only unlike any previous Kia, but also given its $25,535 starting price, it conceivably could be the most car for the least money available in the U.S. Skeptical? That's understandable. As journalists gathered here for the Amanti's press introduction, most expected to drive nothing more than another version of Hyundai's XG350 sedan. Well, remember the old saw about what happens when you assume?
Surpassing Buick
"The Amanti's platform is about a fourth-generation evolution of the XG350's," said Kia public relations director Kim Custer, "with improved side impact protection and four inches of additional length. Plus they're not built in the same plant; no Kias or Hyundais are." To expand the comparison a bit, besides the additional 4.1 inches of length (1.9 of which is wheelbase), the Amanti is 0.9 inch wider and 2.6 inches longer than the 2004 XG350. But it weighs 370 pounds more, which might explain the Hyundai's slightly better fuel economy, 17 city/26 highway vs. Amanti's 17/25.
Power for both is a 3.5-liter, dual-overhead cam V-6 with a cast iron block and aluminum cylinder heads. In the Amanti, it produces 200 horsepower and 220 pound-feet of torque, the latter delivered with a very flat torque curve, Custer said. The XG350 delivers a little less, 194 hp and 216 lb-ft. Both cars utilize a five-speed automatic transmission with a sequential manual mode. But hey, why am I comparing them? According to Custer, "We're not trying to compete with XG350. Ours is a completely different type of car, roomier and more quiet." Kia says the Amanti's main competitors are the Buick LeSabre, Chrysler Concorde, and Toyota Avalon.
As good a car as the XG350 is, the Amanti does surpass it (marginally) in every published interior measurement save rear hip room, and we can personally attest to its quiet. During our 150-mile drive, my driving partner and I commented numerous times on Amanti's smoothness of operation (up- or down-shifts and tire noise for example) and how little noise filtered into the cabin. Not having first-hand knowledge of the generations of evolution involved, I would say that Kia's engineers have worked some magic with the Amanti's platform. Its ride quality is superb ¾ practically Lexus-like smooth ¾ with its double-wishbone front and multi-link rear suspension soaking up bumps and undulations with aplomb.
Safe inside
Part of the credit goes to the attention paid to Amanti's unibody to ensure high torsional stiffness, which also helped in front and rear impact resistance. Reinforced A- and B-pillars and increased overlaps between the rear door side-impact beams and the wheel arches are expected to give Amanti superior side-impact and offset crash ratings. Thanks to a total of eight airbags ¾ really a quantum leap in standard equipment in this price range ¾ occupants inside should be in pretty good shape no matter what happens.
To help prevent the worst from happening, four-wheel disc brakes (ventilated in front) with anti-lock are standard. They ride behind 6.5-by-16-inch, nine-spoke cast aluminum wheels wearing 225-60 tires. There's no optional wheel or tire, but Continental Teves' Electronic Stability Program, traction control and brake assist are a $550 option package, but it's available only after you've opted for two other packages costing $1805 and $900. Not quite a pyramid scheme, but it would be nice if you could get those extra safety features without also paying for a sunroof, leather seats, an up-market Infinity sound system, et al. That said, a completely loaded Amanti lists for $28,790, and as I said above, it's a lot of car for the money.
Another mechanical reason why is its steering, something the Kia folks didn't really talk about much. We found the power rack and pinion system outstanding. As we negotiated the twists, turns, curves, and hills of California Route 78 (one of our favorites) from Escondido east to Santa Ysabel, the steering proved responsive and precise with a great on-center feel. We exercised the transmission's manual mode during that portion of our drive as well, to maximize our driving pleasure. While Amanti may never tempt those whose hearts are set on a 5-Series BMW, Kia's big sedan needs apologize to no car for its fun-to-drive factor. It makes us believe in the "big doesn't have to be boring," advertising tagline Kia will use to push Amanti beginning in January.
Classical influences
Like some recent BMWs, the Amanti's styling might be questioned by some. Kia calls it "Neo-Classical" and "heavily influenced by European design themes." You might call it derivative and see previous generation Mercedes-Benz headlamps, a Chrysler Crossfire grille and a formal-looking C-pillar that could've come from half-a-dozen cars. Beauty, as always, is in the beholder's eyes. The Amanti looks pleasant enough, although some of its styling cues look better or worse depending from where you view them. Inside the cabin there's much to laud; the Kia folks proudly pointed out little touches such as solar glass all around, chrome step plates, window surrounds to reduce rattles, and lighted steering-wheel redundant controls.
No question that the Amanti is an important car for Kia, a "breakthrough" in their words. "A way to move the brand to the next level," Peter Butterfield, President/CEO, Kia Motors America told us. "Any time you move a brand up market you have issues of perception. It's a challenge to our marketing people to get customers to put us in their competitive set." At least Kia has given their marketing folks one heckuva car to work with. And anyone not considering the Amanti in their shopping considerations is making a big mistake.
2004 Kia Amanti
Base price: $25,535
Engine: 3.5-liter V-6, 200 hp/220 lb-ft
Transmission: Five-speed electronically controlled adaptive automatic with manual sequential control, front-wheel drive
Length x width x height: 196.0 x 72.8 x
Not anymore.
They still do the best, but, you do not get a say 12K car built like a 18K car.
Sounds like Toyota is having some success going back to that type of formula, with Scion,so far...
making 12-15K vehicles, that are as nice as some 18-20K vehicles, made by other makers.
They are hitting their target audience, also, or youth, unlike the Element, and a lot of Mazda stuff...(Mazda lost one of 2 dealerships in Dayton, Ohio area, not a good sign)... makes things more difficult for a comeback.
Kia, Mazda, and Mitsu are virtually in a "3 way race" for 10th place in sale, the past 2 years.
Deal is, Kia has only been around 10 years, versus 2-3 decades for these others(of course, if Hyundai did n't bail them out, they'd be liek Daewoo is now).
Take care.
Mazda is NOT in the market to compete with Buick. They make sporty cars with high-quality interiors and newer technology than you would expect from a minor player in the auto market. They have (finally! Again! Whew!) chosen to compete for a smaller niche of customers and drivers who need the utility of a vehicle with many features and luxury appointments, but that have some soul as well. In my opinion, and that of a multitude of reviewers who know what they're talking about and understand what Mazda wants to be to its cutomers, they're succeeding admirably at this goal.
Would Mazda like to sell hundreds of thousands of more cars that are appliances? I'm sure! But with the seriously entrenhced regulars in that market, they're better off doing what they already do well.
Have you folks seen the Top Gear review video by Jeremy Clarkson, of the Mazda RX-8? They called it the BEST car they've reviewed in 2003. That, coming from the MOST respectable source of reviews of (mainly) higher performance cars, is HUGE!
Posting a copied and pasted Kia review about how its the next Buick adds NOTHING to this dicussion. Mazda has never been about appliances or market share (except the dark years in the 90s) and hopefully will not bother to be again - so long as they survive. And with enthusiasts who love what mazda stands for and provides, I don't think they'll have a problem doing that. Ever. I hope!
At least Mazda would have been smart enough to make something that heavy with a larger engine and rear wheel drive.
The Amati is a big fat bust right from the start. It is also kind of funny in the section someone (probably the poster) wrote 'Surpassing Buick', the actual text of the article says the Amati surpassed the Hyundai XG350 it is based on.
What a waste of posting space!
I am a big fan of Mazda, and I hope they succeed. But it is a good thing that the new 6 is a little "sporty" and a lot "Camry". (with a significantly nicer interior).
They can always develop sporty offerings to be their rep, while making their bread and butter on the likes of the 3 and the 6.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Mazda is, indeed, going after the high quality, sporty, fun-to-drive, precision engineered "niche".
You can tell that with the RX8, the 6 and with the new 3. You get the distinct impression that you are getting more for your automotive dollar with any of these vehicles.
Regarding the "Buick analogy", I can't even remotely make that connection.
The ultimate goal is to sell 1 million units per year around the globe through the various pieces in the Ford group.
Mazda will do all the preliminary work. Ford will probably just change sheet metal on its version. I suppose Volvo will probably make some changes so it can have a luxury subcompact to compete with the new little guys coming from BMW and MB.
This is where Mazda fits. It makes sporty and small cars. Mazda is not, and has never been a Buick/Avalon competitor. Ford has Mercury, Lincoln and base Volvo to do that.
It is cool that Ford is finally giving Mazda a free hand to do what it does best: the engineering. AND it is smart enough to spread that engineering around.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Mazda was a powerhouse in the late 80'/early 90's. Everybody thinks Mazda has always been a bankrupt company or something. I think Mazda's big problem over the years has been living in the shadow of Honda and Nissan. Another thing everybody thinks Mazda's aren't reliable cars. Their pretty reliable. They have problems like other car companies but they are a well built car. I hear from some people Mazda's are a piece of junk. Then you hear from some other people Mazda's are just as reliable as Honda's.
Mazda may not be the smartest car company in the world but they are better than Mitsu.
Finally, Kia's are value cars. They are way different from Mazda's. mazda is in 10th place right now in sales: 3,000 units behind Mitsu. I don't think Mazda is going to catch VW for 8th place in the next 5 years. Mazda needs better marketing: something that is going to bring buyers to their dealerships. I think they are starting to do that now though. The new 6 is actually showing signs of life lately in terms of sales.
So, for all intents and purposes, Ford is letting Mazda do its own thing and using their engineering for all sorts of models.
What you are seeing is recognition of some good engineering and design work from Mazda being used in a wide range of vehicles.
Just looking at sales volume doesn't tell the whole story with Mazda. You also have to look at what their products are being used for in some of Fords other products.
I can't speak to Kia as I've never even been in one of them. I do see them on the road, though. They seem to be another of those companies trying to tear a page out of the Toyota handbook from about 25 years ago.
Usually, it's the other way around. Ford would be hoisting their engineering on Mazda.
I believe that speaks highly of Mazda.
Toyota is the 800 pound gorilla in the segment and is recognized as the Japanese mark leader. With the recent 6 and 3 offerings, Mazda has shown they can go up against any of them...if not in volume sales, then certainly in quality, design and engineering. Mazda's vehicles have been all getting high praise as of late.
The Mazda 3 platform is the basis for the new Volvo S40 and V50, as well as the Euro-Focus (the U.S. won't see it until at least 2007).
This is all part of Ford's new strategy to combine the best elements of each of its major brands (Ford, Mazda, Volvo) to develop new platforms that can be used across market space and tailored for several different types of vehicles. I think this is an excellent idea and about time.
I picked up my 2004 Mazda 3s sedan a week ago, and haven't been able to get the grin off my face yet. It's well-built vehicle with plent of power, superior handling and loads of features - for the money, you simply can't beat it.
If I had the extra $10k, I would have looked at the 2005 Volvo S40 T5 - but alas, my finances and common sense steered me into a Mazda :-)
I guess you never heard of the millenia or 929.
On the Millenia that is no Buick. The Millenia was one of the best looking cars of the 90's in my opinion. Mazda is not a Japanese Buick. They are a Japanese Chrysler.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2.) As some people know on these boards I live in New Jersey and lately I have been seeing RX-8's building on 2 dealers lots. Thats not good for Mazda that the RX-8 is sitting on lots. I think the RX-8 might be too expensive price wise for Mazda's core buyer like the Millenia was.
3.) The 6 is showing signs of life but if Mazda could sell 6,000 6's each month in 2004 maybe it would lower the discounts a bit on the 6 thus allowing better resale value.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Another problem I see with Mazda is who is the new 3 going to sell to?. I saw one outside my local Mazda dealer. It looks too funky for the women and too playful for the guys. I posted the same thing on the Protege board. It seemed Protege fans agreed with me.
I look at Mazda and I see a company with promise but alot of gaps: resale value is not that good, their reputation among the NA Market is not that good, products that don't want to make people switch from another make to Mazda. Mazda if they want to succeed they have to build a following like Honda and Toyota have done. The strengths I see with Mazda are great styled cars, the young people know about Mazda(people in their 20's), and good interiors in their cars.
Finally, Its like a football team you may have strengths at postions like running back and defensive end but if your quaterback isn't good your football team doesn't make into January. I just see Mazda as a company that has many weaknesses too overcome some of their strenghs.
These problems aren't going to fix themselves overnight. Mazda needs to help themselves in some way. Their commercials need to tell me why am I going to buy a Mazda 6. I already know why but the "average joe" doesn't. The "average joe" is going to buy GM, Toyota, or a Honda because those are brands that the "average joe" knows.
Its not like Mazda hasn't had good marketing. Their marketing is very "hit and miss" at times.
-Mazda 3 sales are off to a quick start.
-Overall in December Mazda sales were up 35.9% from last December's sales figures.
Mazda has something to worry about again. Mitsubishi from what I understand is going to start offering 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty's. Will that have an efffect on Mazda sales? When Hyundai did the whole 10 year/100,00 miles warranty back in 1998-1999 it did impact Mazda.
In some ways, I think I actually like it better than the 6! Mainly, I think because the 6 is supposed to be a midsized car, but feels cramped to me, whereas a 3 doesn't feel bad for what's supposed to be a small car.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
basically the middle rear seat spot will be more tolerable in the 6 than the 3.
other than that I didn't notice any significant space difference between the 2
but of course the 6 has a MUCH bigger trunk