Mazda - Does it have a good future in US?

seminole_kev

While we're on the make believe subject of a Miata coupe. Keep it cheap and light. Throw in a push button start as well. If you can, put the old adjustable quarter windows up front. Man I miss those things for ventilation. Cloth seats as well. Don't forget my round headlights.

Not kidding about any of the above. That would be a really fun car. Especially if it came in around $20K to $24K.

6thbeatle

i believe mazda has already released plans to build a limited edition hardtop miata-based coupe in the japanese market. it looks from the rear like a miata, while the roof line is quite swoopy but neat. check out mag-X.com to find it--it's probably there somewhere.

nippononly

everything seminole said!

...and I was thinking more in the price range of $18-20K, rather than above 20.

with a back seat, and perhaps half-doors a la RX-8?

the_big_h

just get an RX-8 instead....

nippononly

'cause the manual starts at $27,5.

I was kind of thinking of a smaller car, and one that lots of folks could afford. I mean Miata has kind of been like that for mazda...

the_big_h

leftover '03s are being heavily discounted to the point where you can drive one away for about 18-19k.

6thbeatle

i like the miata, but i won't buy any vehicle that i can't fit a guitar into. unfortunately, the miata's trunk is still pretty tiny. my old 380SL had a pretty big trunk for a convertible, as i could get an acoustic guitar case or a couple of large golf bags in there no problem.

cars like the toyota mr2 make absolutely no sense to me. what use are they as cars? you might as well just buy a touring motorcycle. at least tehn you get some hard shell saddlebags!

guest

then bring back the MX-6 for the young people please.

At least when Honda super-sized the Accord 5 years ago they had an alternative which was the Accord Coupe which kept the young buyer in the accord camp.

nippononly

for me...

hence, my desire for an inexpensive RWD coupe based off Miata...it would be fun! RX-8's baby brother. :-)

guest

can that MX-6 be based off of a shortened next generation 6 platform please so it won't be so big?

bottgers

Up until about 2 weeks ago, my answer to that question would've been an easy yes. But lately I don't know. No doubt Mazda builds some of the best vehicles out there, but latley some of their marketing decisions are more GM-esque than anything. That's to say they've been making some pretty bad decisions (in my humble opinion). Just within the last week or so I've heard Mazda has no plans to release the new MX Micro Sport in the U.S., and they plan to discontinue the MPV all together following the '04 model year. These, I believe are two very bad decisions.

The Micro Sport would compete directly with the Mini Cooper, and very favorably so. It would be superior in every way, and less expensive to boot.

Granted, MPV sales haven't been what Mazda wants to see, but the MPV is a very well built minivan and it could be very competitive with the other makes with a redesign. Message to Mazda; get your heads out of your butts and stop trying to mimic GM with your decision making.

theiceman

It appears that Mazda has decided to exploit a niche in the US with cars that it designs as "world cars". Nothing wrong with that provided that it makes money and that volumes are high enough to recoup R+D and tooling costs fast enough to keep the product line from getting stale. Frankly, I'm pleased that Mazda's current line is doing as well as it is but I still don't see the current lineup as establishing Mazda as anything but a niche manufacturer.

As good as the MPV is, Mazda has a hard time going toe-to-toe with the competition in the bread-and-butter markets in North America. Unless they can develop a minivan which can sell well in other markets as well, I can't see Mazda generating enough volume to develop a competitive minivan for an already crowded (and rebate-dominated) market. They've obviously decided that their R+D cash is better invested in other products.

While their decisions look puzzling from a North American volume perspective, Mazda's "niche-ness" is a good thing for enthusiasts - provided that they can make it stick this time.

And I agree with carguy - if Mazda is going to "supersize" the 6, it might be worthwhile to launch a coupe version of the current 6.

bottgers

From all the info I've able to gather, it appears the main reason the MPV suffers from poor sale figures is because most minivan buying consumers want the larger minivans, such as the Honda, Toyota, and DC. IMO, all Mazda would have to do is redesign the MPV to be comparable in size to the others and I believe it would be very competitive with them, especially considering the level of build that goes into the current MPV's.

What do you think about the Micro Sport? Do you Mazda should release it here in the U.S.?

6thbeatle

the microsport is one neat little car. if mazda decides to bring it over, it may be just for the canadian market, as canadians per capita are much more voracious consumers of small cars than americans.

i think nippononly had some news regarding a new minivan that is going to slot in between a larger odyssey-sized vehicle and a smaller sleek sport minvan.

personally, i think the current mpv is an awesome deal. you get a spacious and sporty vehicle that handles well with a nice interior and good build quality. with the new colours, large wheels and GFX package, the mpv can be made to look just like a large scale mazda 3 GT! pretty cool.

guest

Comparing Mazda to GM. Come on.

The MPV is a good mini-van but the Oddy and Sienna have better packaging. I don't know where anybody got that information from that Mazda is discontinuing the MPV. All Mazda would have to do
to be competitive in the Mini-van market is enlarge the MPV(perhaps use the Ford Freestar underpinnings for a next generation MPV.)
 
However I will be a very upset if there is no coupe version of the next generation 6. I don't want another super-sized Japanese Mid-size sedan. Isn't there enough of that already? Only the Altima looks good anymore. The Camry and Accord look like they are using both NA and Japanese designers to style the current Camry and Accord. Those cars do not look right from a styling stand point. BTW, if Mazda is listening please make the coupe version of the MX-6 way different stylistically altogether from the next gen 6 and like I said a shortened next geration 6 platform.

I heard Mazda was releasing the Micro-sport in the US. Is there a new executive who is making these decisions within the last week? The super-sizing of the next gen 6 the annoucement just came this week. The Microsport not coming to the US and MPV discontinued I never even heard abut it.

Going back to the MPV if Mazda is discountinuing it they have annouced plans for a Mid-Sized Car Base SUV. I am 100% for this idea. I'll tell you why: If Ford is not involved in the building of this mid-size SUV these things will fly off Mazda lots. No matter if this SUV is made in Flat Rock or Japan without Ford invlovement its should be close to Toyota or Honda in reliability.

Also you are forgetting Mazda has announced the NA launch for the 6 5 door and 6 hatchback. How many Wagons or SUV's can Mazda have in their line-up anyway? The discountinuing of the MPV does not really look like that bad of a move. On the other side with Mazda styling they can an Mini-van look kinda cool and provide an alternative to Honda or Toyota.

bottgers

Discontinue the MPV and introduce yet another SUV a good idea? I think not. As if there isn't already 20-30 too many SUV models on the market, let's add another one. America's ridiculous infatuation with SUV's is what's ruining the automotive world. If people today were as nuts over sedans as they are SUV's, we might have some very nice 6 passenger sedans capable of running 13 second 1/4 mile times, handling like a Corvette, and achieving 40-50 MPG. Instead more and more of the sensible models continue to get discontinued in favor of introducing more gas guzzling, low tech appartment buildings on wheels.

guest

I have a coupe not an SUV but Mazda is doing with the market demands. I agree with you there is too many SUV's around but the people love them so what can you do. I disagree though on one point more people are downsizing to car-based SUV's because of the heavy fuel bills of larger SUV's. This mid-sized SUV proposal by Mazda is right on the mark I believe.

I hate to see the coupe market go away of the dinasour but Americans decided in 1993 they wanted the coupe market to comletely go away. In 1997 Americans demanded SUV's. Me myself I would never own a full-size SUV. A car based SUV if I had a family maybe.

bottgers

...for gas guzzling SUV's remaining high, this keeps OPEC and big oil companies right where they want to be.....being the ones who dictate gas prices. If people could get over this silly love affair they have with these huge, wasteful vehicles, and learn to live with smaller, more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly ones, we wouldn't have to allow OPEC and the likes to tie our hands behind our backs and let them put their hands as deep as they want into our pockets. Then gas prices would truely be controlled by supply and demand rather than OPEC being able to do what they want with prices by simply cutting back on production. Unless auto makers can figure out ways to get SUV's into the 40-50 MPG range, I wouldn't mind seeing them go away all together. Right now, they're a senseless waste.

guest

OK we'll talk about that: the younger people seem to not like SUV's like me. It just seems to be we all thought 4 years ago SUV's would go away. They haven't. Personally I think they will never go away. Thats just my opinion. There is just so much demand for them that they can't fade. I agree OPEC's got us where they want us. Alot of people who previously owned cars are buying SUV's. It just seems like the SUV thing never stops.

nippononly

crossovers crossovers

That is what all the previous SUV owners are buying now, and isn't that exactly what mazda is proposing - to have a larger car-based high wagon than Tribute available in the line-up? That's the meat of the larger-vehicle market - I bet it will outsell the 6 when it comes. It is a smart decision for Mazda to do one, although I am still convinced it will be a rebadged, recosmeticked Ford Freestyle. Hopefully not, though. Or at least I hope they tweak it some, like they did with the Tribute from the Escape. Make it sportier.

As to the MPV, despite being one of the first companies to offer a minivan, Mazda has never sold very many. First they were slow, then they were weirdly proportioned and odd-looking, and to my mind they have only just now, for '04, gotten it right in one package. So it will be some kind of irony if this is the moment they pick to discontinue it. I will be sad to see it go, since it was about fourth onto the minivan scene - it's a veteran.

But it's true - they either have to compete on price (they can't do so with Ford and GM incentives in the game, even the Dodge is cheaper) or they have to compete on quality and amenities, for which Honda and Toyota (and now Nissan maybe) are the well-known names. And the biggest reason the '98-'03 Sienna didn't sell in huge numbers is because it was smaller than everything else. Now it's supersized and flying out the dealership doors. The MPV has to get bigger too.

6thbeatle

mazda does have a good future in the US as long as they don't model themselves after VW.

wimsey1

QUALITY CONTROL!

seminole_kev

Good looking, functional car. Glad to see a decent sized 5 door hatch back in the states. Sharp looking.

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guest

Mazda has proposed plans for a large SUV based off the based off the Mazda 6 platform that will be in the 30K-40K range I believe. Selling a Mazda that high in price worries me though. Also, Mazda has announced plans for a mid-size SUV(I would think that means one of those car-based SUV's.)

nippononly

are you sure you are not referring to the same model twice? I can't imagine them building a mid-size AND a large SUV off the Mazda6 platform - in fact I can't imagine them building a large SUV off any car platform they currently have, unless it is that of the MPV - the MPV doesn't use the 6's platform right? It can't, because it predates the 6 by a couple years (thinking aloud).

I am surprised Mazda has enough resources (people and money) to come out with two new SUV models at the same time. Or are we talking really long-term plans here?

Yes, I also would be worried about any new Mazda model priced above $32K or so.

groovypippin

talking about the same model twice. And again, it's going to be a car-based cross-over built off the Mazda6 platform not a "SUV".

guest

Mazda was talking about about building a large SUV not off the Mazda 6 platform(my mistake)but off of a Lincoln variant(whatever that means.) Mazda said they want the large SUV to drive like a car. I don't think mid-size SUV or large SUV are the same thing.

bottgers

....another stinkin' SUV

groovypippin

is being built on the Mazda6 platform. That's the confusion here folks. Mazda may borrow parts of that vehicle (AWD system, 3.5L V6) but would likely create a final product that was still highly differentiated from the Aviator (which looks like it is going to be a very nice vehicle by the way).

newcar31

Are we going to see a sporty "euro" version of the Excursion too?

bottgers

Maybe Ford should rekindle their old idea of a SHO Taurus wagon and rename it as a new SUV model. This SUV crap is ridiculous!

nippononly

(just looking at Ford's history and projecting here) that Ford is going to rebadge a Freestyle as an Aviator, with some minor tweaks, and that Mazda could quite likely get the same car with its own face, and hopefully more extensive tweaks from the Ford?

Or will Mazda really be allowed, small company that it is and so soon after developing the RX-8 wholly on its own, to develop its own large crossover on its own? And this while it is completely redesigning the Miata for the first time ever in that model's life?

I am REALLY thinking Freestyle tweak-and-rebadge on this Mazda SUV project here...which is fine too, because the platform is designed by Mazda (from the 6) and look how good the Tribute has been (rebadge-and-tweak of the Escape).

newcar31

a tweaked, rebadged Mazda Excursion. Maybe with a 5.0L rotary engine (great gas mileage) and a six speed manual and all bucket seats. There's got to be a market for a "sporty" rotary powered 6000 lbs SUV, right?

wimsey1

I'll wait for the Turbo model. 900hp might be enough. :-D

nippononly

that would be 900 hp with 250 lb-ft of torque - just enough to get it rolling from stoplights! :-P

qbrozen

With all the RX8 naysayers already complaining that the 1.3 liter gets less than 20 mpg, I can't imagine how they'd react to a 5 liter!

newcar31

it was a joke. It would get horrendous gas mileage, but it would have a heck of lot more than 250 lbs-ft of torque and would probably make around 900 hp without a turbo.

wimsey1

I figure 2-3 mpg, torque 400-500 lb-ft @ 6250 rpm.
But it should spin to 8000 rpm so you can gear it lower. Oooops, lower that to 1-2 mpg!
Good gag.

seminole_kev

I present to you, my crudely done in MS Paint - Mazda Miata MGB GT



142HP, 6-speed manual RWD hatchback weighing in at around 2600lbs. Optional Mazda speed version with 178HP, 166LB/ft of torque available.

;-)

newcar31

ehhhh, I dunno about the hatchback look, but I would kill for this Miata coupe:

http://www.miata.net/news/images/MiataCoupe2.jpg

seminole_kev

you can almost get that right now with the bolt on hard top for the Miata. I wonder if anyone makes a "swoopier" after-market add on hardtop for the roadster than the factory "bubble" Mazda sells?

newcar31

The hardtop just doesn’t look the same as the coupe and I’m not really big on convertibles, but I love Miatas.

That Miata coupe is simply gorgeous and if you threw a rotary in there, it would be as close to perfect of a car as you could get IMO.

nippononly

you live somewhere the dealer feels safe leaving the cars unlocked when he closes for the night?!

Most modern cars have body panels made of steel thin and light enough to bend when you lean on it. And many economy cars have driver's seat height adjustment nowadays too, which is not to say it is a bad idea, just that it is not exclusive to Mazda! :-)

the_big_h

is good for weight reduction, as long as the unibody frame is strong, keep thinning out the body panels!

who wants to carry around unnecessary weight around anyway? ;-)

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guest

Mazda recorded is best selling March last month since 1996. Mazda March sales resulted in a 36.6% increase from last years March Mazda's 2003 sales. Sales were led by the Mazda 3 which sold 7,173 units last month(the 3 is really in demand.) The Mazda 6 recorded a 60.1% increase in March sales from March 2003 6 sales figures. The 6 sold 6,428 units in March.

In March Mazda sold overall 25,321 units compared to 18,539 units a year ago.

Overall Mazda sales are up 26.9 percent for the year.

qbrozen

oddly enough, I've seen more Mazda6s on the road this week than I've ever noticed before.

wimsey1

I think the question about Mazda in the US is answered for now! At least on the car side they are rocking. Keep up the good work Mazda.

nippononly

...get to that Freestyle clone quick! Keep it all fresh!

When will I be able to see the "freshened" Tribute at my local dealer? I am curious what it will look like. I have seen the "freshened" Escape and it seems unchanged to me. I am hoping the two have diverged further than when they were new.