What are "optitron meters"? (See description of XL model above.)
Like Bluesguy3, I will be curious to see what you can add to the Touring model. There are some things on the Limited I can do without, but others that would be nice. Is there a list of things that can/ cannot be added to a certain trim level?
Optitron is an upscale gauge currently used in Lexus models, it provides a "more pleasant glow" and is supposed to be easier to read, it also looks more refined. Go sit in an 05' ES 330 after dark and judge for yourself. I think they look cool, too bad they can't do the same with the center stack controls on the ES! The mix of Optitron dash and green center stack puts me off.
I don't have a list of available options by trim level, just new changes. I suspect we'll have to wait until at least after Jan. 10th, although I was told pricing may not be available till cars hit the dealer sometime in Feb.
Bought a new Avalon in 95 & 2000 when the model change came. Can't say enough good things about either car. Plan on getting the 2005 when it hits, but am concerned about the transmission problem people are experiencing on the Lexus ES330. Many post on this subject. Do you think that Toyota has addressed this problem in the new Avalon?
That remains to be seen, I too am very concerned about this and continued trans. problems would be a deal breaker for me. This problem would be something I am bound to find since I drive aggressively, and I did find it on a recent test drive of an 05' ES 330.
There's nothing worse than a sporty touring model that hesitates when you step on the gas.......
If it's the same transmission that's in the 2002 Highlander (seems like it is), I don't think it's a big deal. My Highlander (which may well be replaced by the new Avalon) moves, but if I stomp my foot down, I don't lurch forward violently. It takes a beat, then starts building speed, quickly, but smoothly.
To the contrary, in my dad's Camaro, if I blip or stomp on the throttle, there is an INSTANT response, proportionate to the force applied. Not sure that's the type of reaction Toyota/ Lexus wants in their car.
Might just be a matter of personal preference. I think I'd like a big touring car to accelerate like a train vs. a go-kart, smooth and powerful vs. quick and jumpy.
It's all because of the Drive-by-wire throttle instead of a direct wire throttle. It goes through some computer that thinks what gear should the car be in and that's when the hesitation occurs.
Now, I drive a Sienna XLE Limited with the 3.3L V6 and the 5AT and the hesitation occurs occasionally but it's not as problematic as others have mentioned.
My Toyota dealer here in Georgia says that no Avalons will be delivered by any dealer in the country until all dealers have one on the lot. Toyota is sure they have a winner and want everybody to get one at the same time at top dollar. Sounds reasonable to me. Will it work? Maybe. The important thing is that Toyota management appears to think the new Avalon will be a hot item...
I went to the Indianapolis Auto Show today not expecting to see the new Avalon. Much to my surprise they didn't even have a carry-over 2004 in the building, so there were no old or new Avalons to look at. I talked to 3 salesmen and they were all the dumb as a box of rocks variety. Anybody who has read this forum knows more than all 3 of them combined. Once again it is rather disappointing to see that Toyota hasn't taken the time to educate the sales force. I am getting tired of knowing more than the sales people.
"Once again it is rather disappointing to see that Toyota hasn't taken the time to educate the sales force. I am getting tired of knowing more than the sales people."
That always happens to me, in fact one time the sales manager asked me if I wanted to work there since I knew so much about the cars.
Salespeople aren't there to know about cars they can't sell yet because they aren't in stock. Knowing about cars is not the same as being able to SELL cars. In an average dealership, the ONLY thing management cares about when it comes to salespeople is that they SELL cars. They couldn't care less if they know very little, a ton or an average amount. Especially as to a car that isn't even for sale yet.
I asked about 05 Avalon at Washington DC autoshow today. They pretty much confirmed what we know already--urging me to watch Detroit webcam on Jan 10th. They said Toyota is trying to create more differentiation from Camry and comparable Lexus, though in their opinion there is no Lexus that competes directly with Avalon. They did have an 04 on the floor. It is clearly nicer than nearby ES330, in my opinion.
The local dealers I've talked with all say they are getting a Limited first, some of them even say they are "pre-sold" which I don't really "buy".
New car introductions are called a "launch" and they try to build as much excitment as they can. The manufacturers know they must capitalize on the new design status in the first 6 months, cause' sure enough there'll soon be a new competitor along to steal the thunder. It's about momentum and it has to start out right, a home run in the initial months can make the difference between a hit or walked base.
An uneducated sales force is pretty much the norm, I've already had to supply a sales woman with pictures and info. I've had the same problems buying an RV, they just don't know jack, and why should they? Their purpose is to make money for themselves, not help you make the best choice for your needs.
I even had one sales man slightly insult me by saying that I didn't have the right photos of the car! I know what I've got pal!
Either that or they're all playing dumb.
Were I a car sales person, I'd be working this new info. like mad with my customer base, but of course they must be careful with what they say about it until it's "official" release.
Don't get your hopes up, Avalon fans. Avalon has always been a highway cruiser, a Japanese Buick (not that there's anything wrong with that), and not a sporty car. I don't think this will change with the Touring model. It will not be a 530, a G35, or a TL or even an RL.
...but it's NOT supposed to be. If you want THOSE cars, buy those cars....An Avalon is meant for Avalon buyers, not for TL or RL or G35 buyers....
That post is really not much of a stretch from complaining that an Avalon can't pull out tree stumps or carry two tons of gravel. Nor can it outrun a souped up Mustang. Again, it's not supposed to....
At DC today I asked a Toyota rep about the look. She said they only held a photo for her and then took it away--said it is "super close-hold." She thought it was awesome. Another rep was standing at the Prius when asked the same question by somebody else. She claimed it bears a resemblance to Prius, but much larger. That would not describe the photos we have seen--on 1/10/05 we will know which is right and who has been blowing smoke.
The Touring model will just offer a package for those who want a slightly stiffer Avalon, with a little more roll control, more aggressive rubber, and stand-out (among Avalon models) styling cues. It needn't be a sports sedan, and I'm going to bet that Toyota is not going to try and play it off as in the leagues with the G35, for example.
Hell I'm just happy to have black leather as an option be it a Touring or not, and if it looks and handles a little more "sporty" then that's even better!
My options are this:
Toyota Avalon Touring
Lexus ES 330
Buick Lacrosse CXS
If I wanted a real sport sedan I'd buy a "Beamer", but then I couldn't afford food and I couldn't drive it on a daily basis or for work. So what's the point?
Just for reference, the Camry SE and the Avalon Touring use/will use upgraded, slightly stiffer suspensions and more aggressive wheels/tires. The Corolla S is a body package ONLY, with ZERO enhancement to suspension/tires.
I think your prediction is probably the best: that the Touring model will be to the Avalon what the SE is to the Camry, modest enhancements. My caveat about not expecting a 530 was based on what I sensed to be some exaggerated expectations. Also, tires on the Limited will be the same as on the Touring model, in any case an improvement over the current model.
my top choices for a car to be bought this summer are the new Avalon and the ES330. I don't think I'm comfortable buying American yet, in spite of recent data that shows improvement in fit, finish and quality.
Anyway, last summer I bought a Pilot because it's a better value (more useful, less cost, less luxury) than its close sibling, the MDX. Simiarly, I hope the new Avalon can be the better value sibling to the ES330.
I will also look at the Maxima, but think it might be a little smaller than what I'd like.
As an aside, I'm still surprised Honda doesn't have a full sized sedan to "big brother" the Accord, like Avalon and Camry. Anyone know why?
See I'm just the opposite, I've always owned GM cars except for the 92' Subaru Loyale (P.O.S.) my wife had when we met. I even worked for a few local GM dealers in my younger days. I've always had the vision of a GM car in my head until recently.
On a whim I stopped at the Lexus dealer a drove the ES 330, I left surprised at how nice the ride and feel was. Granted a few things about it I didn't like, but overall I was impressed.
I really like the Lexus but the improved power and new gadgets have me interested in the Avalon. Who knows, I may just hold out till the 06' ES 330 if my current car makes it that long.
Navigation won't be available on XL or Touring models.
The reason that some salespeople don't know much about the Avalon is that there hasn't been any salesperson info distributed by Toyota. There is info on the dealers computer system, but this isn't available to salespeople at all dealerships, and some dealers/managers don't bother to share this stuff with their salespeople.
What's the rationale for not offering popular options on selected trims? For example, I'd love to have the HID headlights, but the XLS doesn't have 'em. Similarly, the Touring doesn't offer the NAV system. Same goes for the "black leather" in the Touring -- if people want it in their XL, XLS, or Limited, why not give it to them? Doesn't that concept of "selective loading" loses some potential buyers that would otherwise be willing to get the car (and pay for the options)? I don't get it -- can some one explain?
Any word on whether the rear seat will fold down? It seems to me that reclining rear seats probably wouldn't fold. They won't in the '04. I like what I see otherwise, but lack of a folding seat is a deal-killer for me. And a pass-through, if available, just won't cut it.
He probably did what I did. Out of curiosity, I typed Avalon into the search window at the top of the page, and Voila! -- the link to the "unlisted" article appeared!
The interior pictures answer a few questions for me re the Nav system; the unsightly "remote" previously piggybacked by the shifter has been modified and moved behind a hidden panel. Thought the stereo and Nav screen might have been behind the larger console panel (with "soft" buttons ala the Nav on the Sienna screen, but apparently instead there is a "traditional" hard button stereo hidden, with the Nav screen up on the dash as per current Avalon. Works for me. First real shot of the back seat.
I tried registering as a "reporter" on the Toyota pressroom site to get a peak at other advanced photos, but their screening system is apparently pretty efficient! Oh well.
Thanks for these new links/pictures. And Happy New Year as well.
How many 4-door sedans have rear seats that fold down? There may be some, but can't think of any at the moment. If that's a deal-killer for you (you're giving up a lot!), then maybe what you're really looking for is something more like the Dodge Magnum.
The Avalon may have some torque steer problems. Any front-drive car with more than about 250hp may have the problem. The recent Maxima is plagued with it. Even some reports of torque steer with the Acura TL. The Accord V-6, 240hp, seems to have avoided it.
Many luxury sedans don't have folding seats. For example, the ES330 doesn't, even thought the Camry does. It's done to cut down noise from the trunk area and also to make the seat more comfortable because they don't have to change the shape of the cushions to let it fold right.
I thought MOST modern sedans include this feature.
My Passat does, the new Ford Five Hundred does. Once you have this feature, you will find it hard to give up.
I've never had a "reclining rear seat" so I don't know how useful it would really be. (I expect rear headroom when not reclining will be at least as much as the current Avalon, which is fine for me at 6'1")
I thought I saw that the Avalon would have split folding seats somewhere, but until the complete feature list is released, I won't be certain.
While not a deal breaker for me, the lack of this feature would be a big disappointment.
The new Buick Lacrosse does, but with only one problem:
The rear seat head rests interfere with the front seat backs, thus you must have the seats forward a good deal for the backs to come all the way down. Seems silly to me.......they could have made the rear head rests removable.
Comments
NAV should be optional across the board since it's the buzz word in the industry, whether it's worth it or not is another issue.......
Like Bluesguy3, I will be curious to see what you can add to the Touring model. There are some things on the Limited I can do without, but others that would be nice. Is there a list of things that can/ cannot be added to a certain trim level?
I don't have a list of available options by trim level, just new changes. I suspect we'll have to wait until at least after Jan. 10th, although I was told pricing may not be available till cars hit the dealer sometime in Feb.
Blues
There's nothing worse than a sporty touring model that hesitates when you step on the gas.......
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
To the contrary, in my dad's Camaro, if I blip or stomp on the throttle, there is an INSTANT response, proportionate to the force applied. Not sure that's the type of reaction Toyota/ Lexus wants in their car.
Might just be a matter of personal preference. I think I'd like a big touring car to accelerate like a train vs. a go-kart, smooth and powerful vs. quick and jumpy.
Now, I drive a Sienna XLE Limited with the 3.3L V6 and the 5AT and the hesitation occurs occasionally but it's not as problematic as others have mentioned.
All 2002 Highlanders are equipped with a four-speed electronically controlled automatic
All 2005 Avalons are equipped with a five-speed Super Electronically controlled automatic
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- =2005Avalon_r
That always happens to me, in fact one time the sales manager asked me if I wanted to work there since I knew so much about the cars.
Salespeople aren't there to know about cars they can't sell yet because they aren't in stock. Knowing about cars is not the same as being able to SELL cars. In an average dealership, the ONLY thing management cares about when it comes to salespeople is that they SELL cars. They couldn't care less if they know very little, a ton or an average amount. Especially as to a car that isn't even for sale yet.
Thanks
http://www.naias.com/
http://autoshow.msn.com/as/default.aspx?shw=autoshow2005
New car introductions are called a "launch" and they try to build as much excitment as they can. The manufacturers know they must capitalize on the new design status in the first 6 months, cause' sure enough there'll soon be a new competitor along to steal the thunder. It's about momentum and it has to start out right, a home run in the initial months can make the difference between a hit or walked base.
I even had one sales man slightly insult me by saying that I didn't have the right photos of the car! I know what I've got pal!
Either that or they're all playing dumb.
Were I a car sales person, I'd be working this new info. like mad with my customer base, but of course they must be careful with what they say about it until it's "official" release.
That post is really not much of a stretch from complaining that an Avalon can't pull out tree stumps or carry two tons of gravel. Nor can it outrun a souped up Mustang. Again, it's not supposed to....
The Touring model will just offer a package for those who want a slightly stiffer Avalon, with a little more roll control, more aggressive rubber, and stand-out (among Avalon models) styling cues. It needn't be a sports sedan, and I'm going to bet that Toyota is not going to try and play it off as in the leagues with the G35, for example.
~alpha
This probably means, like Alpha said, minor suspension and tire tweaks, as well as fog lights and a body kit (on an Avalon?! lol).
Even with that said, I'm still looking forward to seeing it in person.
My options are this:
Toyota Avalon Touring
Lexus ES 330
Buick Lacrosse CXS
If I wanted a real sport sedan I'd buy a "Beamer", but then I couldn't afford food and I couldn't drive it on a daily basis or for work. So what's the point?
cove148, I think the webcam will be up when the show begins on Jan.09 (on the official MSN site)
~alpha
Anyway, last summer I bought a Pilot because it's a better value (more useful, less cost, less luxury) than its close sibling, the MDX. Simiarly, I hope the new Avalon can be the better value sibling to the ES330.
I will also look at the Maxima, but think it might be a little smaller than what I'd like.
As an aside, I'm still surprised Honda doesn't have a full sized sedan to "big brother" the Accord, like Avalon and Camry. Anyone know why?
On a whim I stopped at the Lexus dealer a drove the ES 330, I left surprised at how nice the ride and feel was. Granted a few things about it I didn't like, but overall I was impressed.
I really like the Lexus but the improved power and new gadgets have me interested in the Avalon. Who knows, I may just hold out till the 06' ES 330 if my current car makes it that long.
The reason that some salespeople don't know much about the Avalon is that there hasn't been any salesperson info distributed by Toyota. There is info on the dealers computer system, but this isn't available to salespeople at all dealerships, and some dealers/managers don't bother to share this stuff with their salespeople.
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/naias_2005/0501_toyota_av- alon/
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/naias_2005/
and noticed that the 05 Avalon link to the preview is not listed. How did you know about that URL extension ?
BTW, Happy New Year to everyone
The interior pictures answer a few questions for me re the Nav system; the unsightly "remote" previously piggybacked by the shifter has been modified and moved behind a hidden panel. Thought the stereo and Nav screen might have been behind the larger console panel (with "soft" buttons ala the Nav on the Sienna screen, but apparently instead there is a "traditional" hard button stereo hidden, with the Nav screen up on the dash as per current Avalon. Works for me. First real shot of the back seat.
I tried registering as a "reporter" on the Toyota pressroom site to get a peak at other advanced photos, but their screening system is apparently pretty efficient! Oh well.
Thanks for these new links/pictures. And Happy New Year as well.
My Passat does, the new Ford Five Hundred does. Once you have this feature, you will find it hard to give up.
I've never had a "reclining rear seat" so I don't know how useful it would really be. (I expect rear headroom when not reclining will be at least as much as the current Avalon, which is fine for me at 6'1")
I thought I saw that the Avalon would have split folding seats somewhere, but until the complete feature list is released, I won't be certain.
While not a deal breaker for me, the lack of this feature would be a big disappointment.
The rear seat head rests interfere with the front seat backs, thus you must have the seats forward a good deal for the backs to come all the way down. Seems silly to me.......they could have made the rear head rests removable.