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Comments
I would say the style of the next Avalon is "so far so good"! It appears to resemble the new BMW's (personally, I would have no problems driving a Toyota that looked a little like a 745i!!!)
Anyway, I am *really* looking forward to seeing the front and rear view photos...
Again, thanks
The Avalon's hind quarters are interesting indeed-somewhat squat and aggressive, and I like the dual exhaust.
I'm guessing this model is the Limited trim level?
I hope Toyota's literature also shows more colors other than the fairly bland beige. With most of Toyota's sedan line-up, I feel the cars are far more attractive in darker colors. IMO, Silver and White Camrys are very plain and drab, for example, but the Indigo Ink, Salsa Red, and Black are very attractive.
Access to both front and rear should be very easy... the door openings appear HUGE.
Not a fan of that alloy-wheel design. Its too Lincoln TownCar.
Otherwise, not too bad.... should be interesting to see how the launch goes.
~alpha
One other thing it always bothers me with Toyotas interiors. While the gauges are recently blue (Camry, Sienna, Avalon, etc.) (very nice, especially the optitron in the new Camry), the rest of the cars interior (audio and climate controls) has a green background. In the Sienna, the audio LCD is finally blue too, but the rest still green - very dated, I think.
And Toyota is still from the ONLY manufacturers who does not provide illuminated controls for power door locks / power windows, and mirrors. Even many Lexus models don't, but some finally do (LS 430, for example.) Most Ford & GM models are illuminated. I really hope Toyota will change that soon, and the new Avalon will be the first one on the list.
Of course, you may totally disagree :^)
btw, i like the pics, i wish i could see a front view.
~alpha
Very impressed! Like the surface detail that runs from the front fender forward. The rims are ES300. Much better than the Maxima/GS.
I like the 500's looks, if a little too tall. The front could be better. The Montego is a step back. Only hardcore Ford guys buy Mercury anyway!
I sat in the 300C and was as unimpressed by the inside as I was impressed by the outside! Materials were average, rather hard. Space was good in back (I'm 6'4"), but not great. I remember the 2000 Avalon as being much roomier!
That's really the selling point of a car like the Avalon over a car like the 500, material quality. The 500 has fake wood and plenty of it! Avalon may use some but it is spread out better, looks of higher quality, and is complemented by Optitron displays, moving doors, Voice-activated NAV, LED HVAC controls, and superior performance.
I think the 500 would be competitive if they didn't drop the ball and get the new engine ready by launch. HUGE MISTAKE! Not that Ford hasn't dropped the ball before...
If torque steer is managed properly, I think t will take huge chunks of business from Buick, Maxima, and the 500, and smaller bits from 300 intenders who want a better interior with more trunk space. Toyota can get back to 100000 units a year if priced right with good marketing.
I think the 300 appeals to a younger set. The Avalon should do well with Ford 500 buyers, Lexus GS/LS seekers, and Buick shoppers.
In closing, the 500 is a good stake. The 300 is great sizzle. The Avalon should fit nicely in the sweet spot in the middle, and prosper quite nicely. Looks like lexus interior, 'Yota quality, high-tech features, acres of room, sub-30k staring price, better power than all but Hemi 300C, respectable, upscale looks, strong(er) resale. Sound like a great $30-35k car?
Torque steer maybe the only weakness. I wouldn't coiunt out AWD in it's facelift in 2008-9! If it has Sienna mechanicals...
DrFill
Me confused.
Click above for small blurb on the new Avalon- full details on the vehicle will be available after the vehicle debuts at the NAIAS in Detroit on January 10th.
~alpha
My major concerns now shift to the problematic Lexus 5speed transmission and the price. But for now, that's a good looking car.... !! Thanks again.
I can't wait to test drive this thing.
Although from the pics, I am not all that crazy about the styling now.
I thought the model that they showed in the latest pics was the "Touring" or whatever it is called, but it is probably the "Limited"
I remember reading somewhere that the XL is supposed to have 16 inch alloy wheels standard and that the XLS/Touring/Limited have 17 inch rims each with their own designs.
True that. Beige is a real snoozer of a color on almost any car you can name. Same with white. Both are what I call "rental-car colors."
I do like silver though. Very classy.
By personal favorite car colors are dark green (like Imperial Jade Mica) and dark blue (like Spectra Blue Mica). I like the Micas for the added effect of the reflective metal-flakes in the paint. I hope something like that is offered on this new Avalon.
You'll have to be more specific on the Lexus models you're talking about. My family has owned a 1995 ES, 1995 GS, 1999 GS and 2002 ES and all have had illuminated door lock/window switches. Now, the window lights on all but the driver's door go out when the driver pushes the "window lock" button, so perhaps you were in a car where that button was engaged.
Thanks for the clarification. This car looks super except for the problem you addressed, if the problem is still in the 2005 ES then I would assume this car will perform the same. Sure hope somebody can give a positive spin to this.
All that being said, apparently most people do not notice the hesitation or care as sales of the ES (and RX) have set records and are still going very strong (especially good when you consider the car is getting a bit old as it is in its 4th model year).
FWIW, our 2005 drive-by-wire Legacy (N/A) reacts similarly when you dig your foot into it coasting at moderate speeds, and its only a 4 speed auto.
That said, I believe buckwheat earlier stated the Avalon will use the U151E transmission... isnt the ES's "U150E"??? Would that then mean that the two units are different?
Buckwheat- where did you find the tranmission designation for the 05 ES? (Please correct me if I'm wrong).
~alpha
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04343/423383.stm
Lexus vehicles - ES330 - Features Specifications..
For the Avalon that info: appears on page 11 of the 2005 Avalon Introduction
I suppose this is going to be the one big factor with regards to how well the car aficianado public perceive this car. I hope the throttle/tranny issue has been remedied.
More questions: what is the "name" of the 5 speed auto in the Camry 4 cylinder? And why does the ES330 have a higher incidence of issue with the transmission than the other vehicles with the same drive-by-wire and transmission unit. Reading the PGH newspaper article, Consumer Reports concurred about the ES330 they tested for the February issue (and the transmission's reluctancy to downshift was noted in the text), but there isnt a mention of anything wrong with the Highlander's transmission (in the Dec 04 issue, for ex).
~alpha
Like slate gray or the "Smoke" color of my 05 Altima.
I also like colors like Black Walnut that was available on the 02-04 Camrys.
Silver, I cannot stand.
White I like though especially when clean.
I don't like Beige that much....and I don't like Beige interiors either.
What's probably the case is that the ES330 buyers are not looking particularly for responsiveness and performance. Nevertheless, I think it's reasonable to expect a nearly flawless car from the brand that proclaims the "relentless persuit of perfection". I test drove the 2005 ES330 and also noticed the tran hesitation (albeit fairly short, around 1/4 of a second).
It would indeed be a great plus for the new Avalon if that issue with the "learn-by-wire" tran has been resolved, especially considering that it's going to be the "high-performance" flagship.
"Lexus passenger cars also posted strong sales of 12,762, an increase of 13.9 percent. The ES 330 luxury sedan recorded best-ever May sales of 7,099 units, up 23.9 percent"
Judging by the ES330 sales figure, the transmission problem doesn't seem to be hurting their sales. That means the overwhelming majority of the owners are either not aware of the problem or haven't felt the problem.
My heart might break if the avalon has the same problem...
Our next door neighbor (over 50 female) has an ES330. If it has the drivetrain problem, no one can tell. Not her and not my wife as a passenger. But they are not looking for it and she probably never drives her car the way a man might. No one but her drives it.
With the Lexus sales numbers shown in a prior post, it appears that many do not care about this problem or trust Lexus to fix it. Sales are great. They buy on name alone. If this becomes a constant issue with Avalon, the car is in deep trouble. A fine automobile, Avalon is still a Toyota, not a Lexus.
As always, these boards will have the answer first, once the car is available for a test ride. Like most, I can't wait to get my hands on one. Let's hope the problem does not exist for Avalon and the new model is a winner....
Looks like 2005 Camry V6 uses U151E (the same one that causes the "throttle delay" grief for 2005 ES 330), while 2005 Camry V4 uses U250E. I should note that I did see a few discussions around the throttle lag in Camry V6, so that's yet another pointer to U151E (or the software that controls it).
I would agree with the statement that most ES drivers probably dont look for/don't notice the throttle/transmission interaction issue. I am virtually certain neither of my parents (both 49) would notice it.
As a final point, the ES sales figures are very impressive when you consider that Lexus is behind only the Mini brand in terms of incentives (or lack thereof) offered, according to last month's data of major mfrs (excluding the Ferraris and Lambos, obviously).
So.. whos going to the Detroit show that can post pics?
~alpha
"Just wanted to update you that we have received news that the first 2005 Avalon will hit the production line 1/5/05. I will keep you posted as to our allocation.
Happy Holidays,"
I'm looking forward buying one ASAP.
I intend to query my dealer about the transmission lag/hesitation problem seen in the Lexus ES330, which shares the same transmission with the 2005 Avalon. They HAVE to have been briefed about that, even if it's only to tell me that's not a problem, if it ever was. Officially Toyota's working on it, per the news article link above, which I will show them (the article) if they deny the whole thing.
*NOTE: The 2004 model year Avalon will continue to be sold until the launch of the 2005 model in February 2005.
I pretty much settled on the 05 Avalon (probably XLS, although I don't like the fact that this trim doesn't offer the HID lights). The worst that can happen to me is that you guys put too much demand for it, and I'll be forced to pay above the MSRP -- a sort of thing that happened to Prius. How likely is that scenario with the new Avalon? I would think one factor would be the volume of the new Avalons that Toyota plans to put in production -- does anyone has an idea of what it would be?
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/dealers/vehicles/2005-Avalon/index- .htm#_Toc88045337