If the dealer told you they have NO information on the Avalon, you had better go find another dealer. The posting a few weeks back with the artist sketches and the specs was the dealer info that was released to them. They should have at least that info. I am not familiar with the Toyota order process to know whether or not the dealers actually order the vehicles from the plant or not. My understanding is they do not order the cars, instead they get allocations from the distributor who does the actual ordering. Someone may know about the process than I do.
I would say the style of the next Avalon is "so far so good"! It appears to resemble the new BMW's (personally, I would have no problems driving a Toyota that looked a little like a 745i!!!)
Anyway, I am *really* looking forward to seeing the front and rear view photos...
I am not quite certain if I am a fan of the overall shape, however, I'm glad that the design at least will illicit a reaction. Ford's Five Hundred is just so conservative.
The Avalon's hind quarters are interesting indeed-somewhat squat and aggressive, and I like the dual exhaust.
I'm guessing this model is the Limited trim level?
I hope Toyota's literature also shows more colors other than the fairly bland beige. With most of Toyota's sedan line-up, I feel the cars are far more attractive in darker colors. IMO, Silver and White Camrys are very plain and drab, for example, but the Indigo Ink, Salsa Red, and Black are very attractive.
Access to both front and rear should be very easy... the door openings appear HUGE.
Not a fan of that alloy-wheel design. Its too Lincoln TownCar.
Otherwise, not too bad.... should be interesting to see how the launch goes.
Maybe it's my age, certainly subjective, but I like Toyotä's beige, white and silver colours (in that order). They don't show the dirt as much and scratches are less visible with light coloured cars. On the downside, they are less visible in some situations. Black is beautiful, but I'll never buy another one. Felt like I had to wash it every day.
Alpha, as we all know, styling is subjective, and I just love the new Ford 500 design - and I also love the Town Car (and the wheels), IMO it is much better than Camry or Avalon... Not that I don't like them. I think the Camry and Avalon are quite good, and surpass Ford with quality and engines, but design..... it's not my cup of tea... Same is with Sienna... I think DC vans design is 1000 times better than Sienna...
One other thing it always bothers me with Toyotas interiors. While the gauges are recently blue (Camry, Sienna, Avalon, etc.) (very nice, especially the optitron in the new Camry), the rest of the cars interior (audio and climate controls) has a green background. In the Sienna, the audio LCD is finally blue too, but the rest still green - very dated, I think.
And Toyota is still from the ONLY manufacturers who does not provide illuminated controls for power door locks / power windows, and mirrors. Even many Lexus models don't, but some finally do (LS 430, for example.) Most Ford & GM models are illuminated. I really hope Toyota will change that soon, and the new Avalon will be the first one on the list.
Does anyone have any idea if the 5 speed in the avalon will be the same as the one in the lexus es330? The transmission in the lexus seems to cause owners all sorts of grief...(see the lexus es300 transmission problems forum). its what kept me from seriously considering the es330
btw, i like the pics, i wish i could see a front view.
All I said about the Five Hundred was that it is conservative, I didnt state whether or not I liked it. By and large, you will find that many agree that the Five Hundred's styling is so conservative that it doesnt even illicit a reaction. I dont think that will happen with the new Avalon- people will either feel strongly for or against it, from what I've seen, thus far.
Already blows away the new GS eyesore at the Auto Shows!
Very impressed! Like the surface detail that runs from the front fender forward. The rims are ES300. Much better than the Maxima/GS.
I like the 500's looks, if a little too tall. The front could be better. The Montego is a step back. Only hardcore Ford guys buy Mercury anyway!
I sat in the 300C and was as unimpressed by the inside as I was impressed by the outside! Materials were average, rather hard. Space was good in back (I'm 6'4"), but not great. I remember the 2000 Avalon as being much roomier!
That's really the selling point of a car like the Avalon over a car like the 500, material quality. The 500 has fake wood and plenty of it! Avalon may use some but it is spread out better, looks of higher quality, and is complemented by Optitron displays, moving doors, Voice-activated NAV, LED HVAC controls, and superior performance.
I think the 500 would be competitive if they didn't drop the ball and get the new engine ready by launch. HUGE MISTAKE! Not that Ford hasn't dropped the ball before...
If torque steer is managed properly, I think t will take huge chunks of business from Buick, Maxima, and the 500, and smaller bits from 300 intenders who want a better interior with more trunk space. Toyota can get back to 100000 units a year if priced right with good marketing.
I think the 300 appeals to a younger set. The Avalon should do well with Ford 500 buyers, Lexus GS/LS seekers, and Buick shoppers.
In closing, the 500 is a good stake. The 300 is great sizzle. The Avalon should fit nicely in the sweet spot in the middle, and prosper quite nicely. Looks like lexus interior, 'Yota quality, high-tech features, acres of room, sub-30k staring price, better power than all but Hemi 300C, respectable, upscale looks, strong(er) resale. Sound like a great $30-35k car?
Torque steer maybe the only weakness. I wouldn't coiunt out AWD in it's facelift in 2008-9! If it has Sienna mechanicals...
Great post, but moving doors? Don't ALL cars have moving doors? (well, cept the hotrods that you have to crawl in the window, and I don't remember the Five Hundred having those!)
Click above for small blurb on the new Avalon- full details on the vehicle will be available after the vehicle debuts at the NAIAS in Detroit on January 10th.
Thanks, for the info. What looks interesting to me is the new crossover vehicle to be introduced. Is Toyota finally going to offer a Camry based AWD sports-wagon? It's what I've been waiting for. Heck, I would settle for an AWD Camry or Avalon.
There is a 500K file posted there, but it requires a username and password given to media representatives only. Wonder what's up there. I am guessing, the same dealer spec that was posted in this thread?
Thanks for the great picture. I have always said this board would be the first to actually see a new Avalon. Can't wait for a test drive even if I really won't be a serious buyer till this Fall.
My major concerns now shift to the problematic Lexus 5speed transmission and the price. But for now, that's a good looking car.... !! Thanks again.
I want to see the new Avalon in different colors outside of "Beige".
I can't wait to test drive this thing.
Although from the pics, I am not all that crazy about the styling now.
I thought the model that they showed in the latest pics was the "Touring" or whatever it is called, but it is probably the "Limited"
I remember reading somewhere that the XL is supposed to have 16 inch alloy wheels standard and that the XLS/Touring/Limited have 17 inch rims each with their own designs.
The problem with the ES330 is not the transmission, it is the drive by wire throttle used by Toyota/Lexus, this causes the hesitation. I owned the 2004 ES330 and got rid of it due to hesitation lasting approxiametly 1.5 seconds during initial acceleration. There seemed to be poor communication between the throttle and the transmission, which gave "jerky" starts and stops. At all times during decelaration I could feel the transmission downshifting, to a point where my body would move back and forth with the car. I am very eager to test drive this new Avalon, especially with the new engine and increased power. I believe the ES330 is ULEV 2 and that the programming causes a problem with the initial acceleration(delay). The new Avalon will also be ULEV 2, and have the same 5 speed transmission of the ES330, this is of great concern, because Lexus has not fixed the problem on the 2005 ES either. This is just my 2 cents but if the new Avalon produces the same hesitation characteristic as the ES then I definitely will not buy this car no matter how nice it looks. The ES is a very nice car, but the hesitation/transmission issues are enough to persuade consumers to shop elsewhere. I hope that Toyota/Lexus gets this right, otherwise Avalon sales will be less than desirable.
"I want to see the new Avalon in different colors outside of "Beige."
True that. Beige is a real snoozer of a color on almost any car you can name. Same with white. Both are what I call "rental-car colors."
I do like silver though. Very classy.
By personal favorite car colors are dark green (like Imperial Jade Mica) and dark blue (like Spectra Blue Mica). I like the Micas for the added effect of the reflective metal-flakes in the paint. I hope something like that is offered on this new Avalon.
"And Toyota is still from the ONLY manufacturers who does not provide illuminated controls for power door locks / power windows, and mirrors. Even many Lexus models don't, but some finally do (LS 430, for example.)"
You'll have to be more specific on the Lexus models you're talking about. My family has owned a 1995 ES, 1995 GS, 1999 GS and 2002 ES and all have had illuminated door lock/window switches. Now, the window lights on all but the driver's door go out when the driver pushes the "window lock" button, so perhaps you were in a car where that button was engaged.
How would you test drive to determine if the new Avalon has the hesitation problem? Lots of acceleration/deceleration? I've also read about the ES 330 hesitation problem in user forums. I'd have thought that these buyers would not have purchased the car if it was evident during a test drive. Could there be something about the smart software that causes the problem?
Thanks for the clarification. This car looks super except for the problem you addressed, if the problem is still in the 2005 ES then I would assume this car will perform the same. Sure hope somebody can give a positive spin to this.
There was an article in the Pittsburgh Gazette about the transmission hesitation. It said Toyota/Lexus is working on an acceptable "fix" for the issue. Apparently they saw that the first attepmt to solve this, reprogramming the transmission computer last year, was not successful in all cases. The article also says that only drivers who were unusually sensitive to their car's shifts would notice the hesitation.
All that being said, apparently most people do not notice the hesitation or care as sales of the ES (and RX) have set records and are still going very strong (especially good when you consider the car is getting a bit old as it is in its 4th model year).
I think people who rarely drive agressively would never notice the kickdown issue. When I test drove an ES330 earlier this year, I did not personally feel that it was a big deal (but it was noticeable b/c I was looking for it), and it definitely felt as though it was an accelerator issue. The bigger issue for me was that I actually had a hard time launching the vehicle precisely; without decent pressure on the go pedal, I couldnt move off the line with authority, but when I hit just a little harder, the vehicle would step out of the gates with more balls than I wanted. I definitely am a fan of Toyota/Lexus, but I was NOT impressed with the throttle/engine/trasnmission interaction of the ES I drove. That said, I dont believe it would stop me from buying the car.
FWIW, our 2005 drive-by-wire Legacy (N/A) reacts similarly when you dig your foot into it coasting at moderate speeds, and its only a 4 speed auto.
That said, I believe buckwheat earlier stated the Avalon will use the U151E transmission... isnt the ES's "U150E"??? Would that then mean that the two units are different?
Buckwheat- where did you find the tranmission designation for the 05 ES? (Please correct me if I'm wrong).
I suppose this is going to be the one big factor with regards to how well the car aficianado public perceive this car. I hope the throttle/tranny issue has been remedied.
More questions: what is the "name" of the 5 speed auto in the Camry 4 cylinder? And why does the ES330 have a higher incidence of issue with the transmission than the other vehicles with the same drive-by-wire and transmission unit. Reading the PGH newspaper article, Consumer Reports concurred about the ES330 they tested for the February issue (and the transmission's reluctancy to downshift was noted in the text), but there isnt a mention of anything wrong with the Highlander's transmission (in the Dec 04 issue, for ex).
All that being said, apparently most people do not notice the hesitation or care as sales of the ES (and RX) have set records and are still going very strong (especially good when you consider the car is getting a bit old as it is in its 4th model year).
What's probably the case is that the ES330 buyers are not looking particularly for responsiveness and performance. Nevertheless, I think it's reasonable to expect a nearly flawless car from the brand that proclaims the "relentless persuit of perfection". I test drove the 2005 ES330 and also noticed the tran hesitation (albeit fairly short, around 1/4 of a second).
It would indeed be a great plus for the new Avalon if that issue with the "learn-by-wire" tran has been resolved, especially considering that it's going to be the "high-performance" flagship.
The hesitation problem should be evident in stop and go situations. Test drive the car where there are lots of traffic lights and stop signs. My ES did not react well to this type of driving. That said once it got up to speed it was the best car I ever owned, with quietness and smoothness throughout. When test driving the Avalon press the accelerator normally and see if there is some form of delay until the car starts to move. For some people it is unacceptable, for others it is ok. The ES is no sports car, I left a V6 Camry for the ES and wished I had kept the Camry. Everyone that I talked with said that the programming for the drive by wire throttle is what causes the hesitation, and that was built into the design for the car to be classified as ULEV 2. I hope that the Avalon does not have this problem, or at least is not so profound. Almost every person that had been in my ES noticed the problem, and they were not even driving the car. With a 280 hp engine it would be a shame to have some form of delay when you step on the accelerator. One other thing after the initial 1-1.5 second delay the ES would take off with decent speed. The ES on occasion had "rough" shifting but that was not all the time. Usually during downshifting was it most noticeable. In conclusion my 1999 V6 XLE Camry drove smoother than my ES330. I can't wait for the new Avalon, I would like to purchase one over the summer, assuming the car is as good as I think it will be. I just hope it does not have the same problems as the ES, otherwise someone will start a thread for engine hesitation/transmission problems on the Avalon page.
"Lexus passenger cars also posted strong sales of 12,762, an increase of 13.9 percent. The ES 330 luxury sedan recorded best-ever May sales of 7,099 units, up 23.9 percent"
Judging by the ES330 sales figure, the transmission problem doesn't seem to be hurting their sales. That means the overwhelming majority of the owners are either not aware of the problem or haven't felt the problem.
Agree. But if you go to the NHTSA website you will see that almost all complaints for the ES are geared towards the hesitation/transmissions problems. Besides that "glitch" it is a great car. My only fear is that the same glitch will work its way into what looks to be a great redesign of the Avalon. But make no mistake about it, there is a problem with the ES and its been around since 2002. The current(2004) Avalon is very smooth and quiet, I hope it continues into the next generation Avalon.
I saw the complaints on the NHTSA website. So the question remains why hasn't the NHTSA done something about it ? Didn't they think the issue was serious enough to warrant a recall?The "problem" has been around for about three years now. And why would Toyota put the same drive-by-wire throttle and 5 speed auto in the new Avalon. Incidently, I wonder if they made any change to the 05 ES330.
Owners concerns about the es330 transmission is what kept me from buying that. As I recall, at least one of the messages on the es330 tranny board suggests that it might be fixed for the 2005 es. Although future1 suggests it is still there. I first drove a 330 about 8 months ago before looking into the car at all (i.e., before I knew anything about the tranny) and did not notice the hesitation...but I was not looking for it, and did not gun it.
My heart might break if the avalon has the same problem...
Everybody who reads and posts here was among the first to see the new Avalon. And thanks again for that great photo! It appears we are also among the first to openly discuss a potential flaw..the misconnection in the current Lexus ES330 drive train, if Avalon gets it.
Our next door neighbor (over 50 female) has an ES330. If it has the drivetrain problem, no one can tell. Not her and not my wife as a passenger. But they are not looking for it and she probably never drives her car the way a man might. No one but her drives it.
With the Lexus sales numbers shown in a prior post, it appears that many do not care about this problem or trust Lexus to fix it. Sales are great. They buy on name alone. If this becomes a constant issue with Avalon, the car is in deep trouble. A fine automobile, Avalon is still a Toyota, not a Lexus.
As always, these boards will have the answer first, once the car is available for a test ride. Like most, I can't wait to get my hands on one. Let's hope the problem does not exist for Avalon and the new model is a winner....
More questions: what is the "name" of the 5 speed auto in the Camry 4 cylinder?
Looks like 2005 Camry V6 uses U151E (the same one that causes the "throttle delay" grief for 2005 ES 330), while 2005 Camry V4 uses U250E. I should note that I did see a few discussions around the throttle lag in Camry V6, so that's yet another pointer to U151E (or the software that controls it).
Thanks for confirming what I believed- that the Camry 4 and V6, while both using 5 speed autos, use different units. Primarily, I was wondering if complaints against the Camry 4, which accounts for 3 in 4 Camry sales, were going to start surfacing. My guess is not, and thats a good thing.
I would agree with the statement that most ES drivers probably dont look for/don't notice the throttle/transmission interaction issue. I am virtually certain neither of my parents (both 49) would notice it.
As a final point, the ES sales figures are very impressive when you consider that Lexus is behind only the Mini brand in terms of incentives (or lack thereof) offered, according to last month's data of major mfrs (excluding the Ferraris and Lambos, obviously).
So.. whos going to the Detroit show that can post pics?
New Avalon debuts at Detroit show, January 10. But what have local dealers said about availability? Chicago dealers say end of January. Any earlier elsewhere?
"Just wanted to update you that we have received news that the first 2005 Avalon will hit the production line 1/5/05. I will keep you posted as to our allocation.
I would think that all depends. The Ford Five Hundred, for example, went into production in mid-July, but was not seen in any numbers in dealerships til mid-October, and not seen in ANY dealerships until late September...
Our Sienna arrived in February 2004 3 weeks after production date. One week for manufacturing and checking it out, two weeks for transport to our dealer. I would guess that SOME Avalons will be in SOME dealers by the first week in February. Haven't gotten any similar heads-up e-mail from my local dealer.
I intend to query my dealer about the transmission lag/hesitation problem seen in the Lexus ES330, which shares the same transmission with the 2005 Avalon. They HAVE to have been briefed about that, even if it's only to tell me that's not a problem, if it ever was. Officially Toyota's working on it, per the news article link above, which I will show them (the article) if they deny the whole thing.
According to joedbob via his dealer, production starts 1/5/05, but the actual launch of the car is not scheduled until Feb. 2005, that was pointed out in an already published Toyota press release, below is a cut/paste blurb from that release:
*NOTE: The 2004 model year Avalon will continue to be sold until the launch of the 2005 model in February 2005.
What's the typical price dynamics over time for a new model? Is it a high initial price boosted by the novelty factor, gradually subsiding over time? Or is it the other way around -- the low "teaser" price to compensate for the unknown factors (such as reliability), followed by higher premiums as the buyers recognize the value?
I pretty much settled on the 05 Avalon (probably XLS, although I don't like the fact that this trim doesn't offer the HID lights). The worst that can happen to me is that you guys put too much demand for it, and I'll be forced to pay above the MSRP -- a sort of thing that happened to Prius. How likely is that scenario with the new Avalon? I would think one factor would be the volume of the new Avalons that Toyota plans to put in production -- does anyone has an idea of what it would be?
I'm new here, so forgive me if this is old news but I didn't see this link in recent messages. I am still driving my '97 XLS with 130K miles and haven't found anything to get me really interested in changing. Now my car (finally) needs brakes so I need a new car! This '05 Avalon looks good to me, and the info on the Limited version sounds better than the ES330.
Comments
I would say the style of the next Avalon is "so far so good"! It appears to resemble the new BMW's (personally, I would have no problems driving a Toyota that looked a little like a 745i!!!)
Anyway, I am *really* looking forward to seeing the front and rear view photos...
Again, thanks
The Avalon's hind quarters are interesting indeed-somewhat squat and aggressive, and I like the dual exhaust.
I'm guessing this model is the Limited trim level?
I hope Toyota's literature also shows more colors other than the fairly bland beige. With most of Toyota's sedan line-up, I feel the cars are far more attractive in darker colors. IMO, Silver and White Camrys are very plain and drab, for example, but the Indigo Ink, Salsa Red, and Black are very attractive.
Access to both front and rear should be very easy... the door openings appear HUGE.
Not a fan of that alloy-wheel design. Its too Lincoln TownCar.
Otherwise, not too bad.... should be interesting to see how the launch goes.
~alpha
One other thing it always bothers me with Toyotas interiors. While the gauges are recently blue (Camry, Sienna, Avalon, etc.) (very nice, especially the optitron in the new Camry), the rest of the cars interior (audio and climate controls) has a green background. In the Sienna, the audio LCD is finally blue too, but the rest still green - very dated, I think.
And Toyota is still from the ONLY manufacturers who does not provide illuminated controls for power door locks / power windows, and mirrors. Even many Lexus models don't, but some finally do (LS 430, for example.) Most Ford & GM models are illuminated. I really hope Toyota will change that soon, and the new Avalon will be the first one on the list.
Of course, you may totally disagree :^)
btw, i like the pics, i wish i could see a front view.
~alpha
Very impressed! Like the surface detail that runs from the front fender forward. The rims are ES300. Much better than the Maxima/GS.
I like the 500's looks, if a little too tall. The front could be better. The Montego is a step back. Only hardcore Ford guys buy Mercury anyway!
I sat in the 300C and was as unimpressed by the inside as I was impressed by the outside! Materials were average, rather hard. Space was good in back (I'm 6'4"), but not great. I remember the 2000 Avalon as being much roomier!
That's really the selling point of a car like the Avalon over a car like the 500, material quality. The 500 has fake wood and plenty of it! Avalon may use some but it is spread out better, looks of higher quality, and is complemented by Optitron displays, moving doors, Voice-activated NAV, LED HVAC controls, and superior performance.
I think the 500 would be competitive if they didn't drop the ball and get the new engine ready by launch. HUGE MISTAKE! Not that Ford hasn't dropped the ball before...
If torque steer is managed properly, I think t will take huge chunks of business from Buick, Maxima, and the 500, and smaller bits from 300 intenders who want a better interior with more trunk space. Toyota can get back to 100000 units a year if priced right with good marketing.
I think the 300 appeals to a younger set. The Avalon should do well with Ford 500 buyers, Lexus GS/LS seekers, and Buick shoppers.
In closing, the 500 is a good stake. The 300 is great sizzle. The Avalon should fit nicely in the sweet spot in the middle, and prosper quite nicely. Looks like lexus interior, 'Yota quality, high-tech features, acres of room, sub-30k staring price, better power than all but Hemi 300C, respectable, upscale looks, strong(er) resale. Sound like a great $30-35k car?
Torque steer maybe the only weakness. I wouldn't coiunt out AWD in it's facelift in 2008-9! If it has Sienna mechanicals...
DrFill
Me confused.
Click above for small blurb on the new Avalon- full details on the vehicle will be available after the vehicle debuts at the NAIAS in Detroit on January 10th.
~alpha
My major concerns now shift to the problematic Lexus 5speed transmission and the price. But for now, that's a good looking car.... !! Thanks again.
I can't wait to test drive this thing.
Although from the pics, I am not all that crazy about the styling now.
I thought the model that they showed in the latest pics was the "Touring" or whatever it is called, but it is probably the "Limited"
I remember reading somewhere that the XL is supposed to have 16 inch alloy wheels standard and that the XLS/Touring/Limited have 17 inch rims each with their own designs.
True that. Beige is a real snoozer of a color on almost any car you can name. Same with white. Both are what I call "rental-car colors."
I do like silver though. Very classy.
By personal favorite car colors are dark green (like Imperial Jade Mica) and dark blue (like Spectra Blue Mica). I like the Micas for the added effect of the reflective metal-flakes in the paint. I hope something like that is offered on this new Avalon.
You'll have to be more specific on the Lexus models you're talking about. My family has owned a 1995 ES, 1995 GS, 1999 GS and 2002 ES and all have had illuminated door lock/window switches. Now, the window lights on all but the driver's door go out when the driver pushes the "window lock" button, so perhaps you were in a car where that button was engaged.
Thanks for the clarification. This car looks super except for the problem you addressed, if the problem is still in the 2005 ES then I would assume this car will perform the same. Sure hope somebody can give a positive spin to this.
All that being said, apparently most people do not notice the hesitation or care as sales of the ES (and RX) have set records and are still going very strong (especially good when you consider the car is getting a bit old as it is in its 4th model year).
FWIW, our 2005 drive-by-wire Legacy (N/A) reacts similarly when you dig your foot into it coasting at moderate speeds, and its only a 4 speed auto.
That said, I believe buckwheat earlier stated the Avalon will use the U151E transmission... isnt the ES's "U150E"??? Would that then mean that the two units are different?
Buckwheat- where did you find the tranmission designation for the 05 ES? (Please correct me if I'm wrong).
~alpha
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04345/424551.stm
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04343/423383.stm
Lexus vehicles - ES330 - Features Specifications..
For the Avalon that info: appears on page 11 of the 2005 Avalon Introduction
I suppose this is going to be the one big factor with regards to how well the car aficianado public perceive this car. I hope the throttle/tranny issue has been remedied.
More questions: what is the "name" of the 5 speed auto in the Camry 4 cylinder? And why does the ES330 have a higher incidence of issue with the transmission than the other vehicles with the same drive-by-wire and transmission unit. Reading the PGH newspaper article, Consumer Reports concurred about the ES330 they tested for the February issue (and the transmission's reluctancy to downshift was noted in the text), but there isnt a mention of anything wrong with the Highlander's transmission (in the Dec 04 issue, for ex).
~alpha
Like slate gray or the "Smoke" color of my 05 Altima.
I also like colors like Black Walnut that was available on the 02-04 Camrys.
Silver, I cannot stand.
White I like though especially when clean.
I don't like Beige that much....and I don't like Beige interiors either.
What's probably the case is that the ES330 buyers are not looking particularly for responsiveness and performance. Nevertheless, I think it's reasonable to expect a nearly flawless car from the brand that proclaims the "relentless persuit of perfection". I test drove the 2005 ES330 and also noticed the tran hesitation (albeit fairly short, around 1/4 of a second).
It would indeed be a great plus for the new Avalon if that issue with the "learn-by-wire" tran has been resolved, especially considering that it's going to be the "high-performance" flagship.
"Lexus passenger cars also posted strong sales of 12,762, an increase of 13.9 percent. The ES 330 luxury sedan recorded best-ever May sales of 7,099 units, up 23.9 percent"
Judging by the ES330 sales figure, the transmission problem doesn't seem to be hurting their sales. That means the overwhelming majority of the owners are either not aware of the problem or haven't felt the problem.
My heart might break if the avalon has the same problem...
Our next door neighbor (over 50 female) has an ES330. If it has the drivetrain problem, no one can tell. Not her and not my wife as a passenger. But they are not looking for it and she probably never drives her car the way a man might. No one but her drives it.
With the Lexus sales numbers shown in a prior post, it appears that many do not care about this problem or trust Lexus to fix it. Sales are great. They buy on name alone. If this becomes a constant issue with Avalon, the car is in deep trouble. A fine automobile, Avalon is still a Toyota, not a Lexus.
As always, these boards will have the answer first, once the car is available for a test ride. Like most, I can't wait to get my hands on one. Let's hope the problem does not exist for Avalon and the new model is a winner....
Looks like 2005 Camry V6 uses U151E (the same one that causes the "throttle delay" grief for 2005 ES 330), while 2005 Camry V4 uses U250E. I should note that I did see a few discussions around the throttle lag in Camry V6, so that's yet another pointer to U151E (or the software that controls it).
I would agree with the statement that most ES drivers probably dont look for/don't notice the throttle/transmission interaction issue. I am virtually certain neither of my parents (both 49) would notice it.
As a final point, the ES sales figures are very impressive when you consider that Lexus is behind only the Mini brand in terms of incentives (or lack thereof) offered, according to last month's data of major mfrs (excluding the Ferraris and Lambos, obviously).
So.. whos going to the Detroit show that can post pics?
~alpha
"Just wanted to update you that we have received news that the first 2005 Avalon will hit the production line 1/5/05. I will keep you posted as to our allocation.
Happy Holidays,"
I'm looking forward buying one ASAP.
I intend to query my dealer about the transmission lag/hesitation problem seen in the Lexus ES330, which shares the same transmission with the 2005 Avalon. They HAVE to have been briefed about that, even if it's only to tell me that's not a problem, if it ever was. Officially Toyota's working on it, per the news article link above, which I will show them (the article) if they deny the whole thing.
*NOTE: The 2004 model year Avalon will continue to be sold until the launch of the 2005 model in February 2005.
I pretty much settled on the 05 Avalon (probably XLS, although I don't like the fact that this trim doesn't offer the HID lights). The worst that can happen to me is that you guys put too much demand for it, and I'll be forced to pay above the MSRP -- a sort of thing that happened to Prius. How likely is that scenario with the new Avalon? I would think one factor would be the volume of the new Avalons that Toyota plans to put in production -- does anyone has an idea of what it would be?
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/dealers/vehicles/2005-Avalon/index- .htm#_Toc88045337