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The one area it is probably short (besides styling) is in terms of real off road ability. However, if the Ridgeline trades off some off road capability for better ride and handling than a traditional truck (as I expect that it would), I would have to think about it.
Hope you enjoy your new Frontier. I'm not in the market yet, and am on the fence as to what I will do.
In case of Pilot, Honda suggests maximum towing capacity of 4500 lb at sea level with four people on board the vehicle. I suspect Ridgeline would be rated something along the lines.
Payload being transported could affect (remaining) towing capacity of any vehicle. But I doubt all automakers follow the same standard when it comes to it (similar to measure trunk/cargo space, some quote it using SAE standards, other do it via VDA method).
It might have more of an impact on an auto tranny due to add'l heat build up.
The Frontier comes in far more combinations that the one-size-fits-all approach of the Ridgeline. Its also cheaper, even with the more powerful V6. But when using a CC with 4wd and similar equipment, there are some good comparisons.
The Ridgeline tows 5,000 lbs, which is not bad. But its 1,100 lbs short of the Frontier.
The Frontier has a payload of 1381, 1098, or 1365 lbs depending on whether you chose the SE, Nismo, or LE. The Ridgeline leads this category with 1549 lbs. The Frontier will come within 100 lbs of that, but you have to drop 4WD on the SE or LE.
Nissans website has apparently goofed up their labeling of the bed dimensions. If they mean what I think they mean, the beds are about the same length. Width depends on how Nissan measured it. The number they list on their site is 10 more than the Ridgeline. But Honda specifies that theyre talking about the distance between the wheel wells. Nissan does not. And when you look at pics of each bed, the Nissan wheel wells are much larger.
Besides on steep grades, payload must affect towing capacity. If the vehicle is operating at GVWR, it may or may not be ready for its rated towing capacity.
In some 4WD pickups towing capacity is rated lower than their 2WD counterparts. That must have some reasoning (added weight of the 4WD?).
Also, payload is critical in vehicles that can carry 4-people and stuff. If each person weighed 175 lb on average, half of the total payload is gone, right there.
"**Maximum trailer weight ratings are calculated assuming a base vehicle, except for any options necessary to achieve the rating, plus driver. The weight of other optional equipment, passengers and cargo will reduce the maximum trailer weight you vehicle can tow. See your dealer for additional details."
xwesx - I didn't mean to imply any significant advantage for the Ridgeline. I agree that 100 lbs isn't much of a difference. Though it's more like 200 lbs when similarly equipped. I was just listing the capacities.
"If you tow 5000# regularly, you probably shouldn't buy a Ridgeline to tow it..."
Ditto that. It's best to leave a little extra "in the bank". As a general rule, towing something that weighs more than the vehicle pulling it probably isn't wise.
Haha! Just read your last sentence: "As a general rule..." Hey, didn't I tell you that my '69 weighs over 12000#? *sheepish grin*
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=320271
Also, I read somewhere that the Ridgeline will have traction control. Does anyone have information as to how that will work?
Thanks.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
To bring home the point, I will use Acura RL’s SH-AWD. RL has 58/42 static weight distribution. During moderate straightline acceleration, weight shifts towards the rear and so does power distribution (40-60). The rear wheels can get up to 70% of the total power. During cruising, the weight bias is up front (nearly 60%), and so is the power distribution (60-40).
Depending on these parameters, and combined with the “intelligence” of the computer involved, Ridgeline could have several variances of its own depending on the situation rather than having a fixed 50-50 split.
As far as traction control goes, in Ridgeline, Vehicle Stability Assist (w/traction control) is standard. VSA allows against side-slip while traction control does what it does. Combine with VTM-4, and this should be one stable pickup.
While I am still thinking about an SUV for my next vehicle, I think a crew cab pickup makes the most sense for me. I'd wish I liked the Tacoma more, but that is one vehicle that I have been less impressed when I have seen it in real life as compared to pictures. The Dakota does not do it for me either. A V8 is intriguing, but to put higher grade fuel to get 250 hp is a joke. The GM twins (Canyon / Colorado) with their 5 cylinder engines and cheap interiors are also a joke.
As of right now, I think it is between the Ridgeline and the new Frontier. Slightly different flavors, but both have some impressive strengths.
VTM-4 technical details
VTM-4 will typically power the front wheels with 100% of the engine's torque. Power is managed by the system's ECU. More slippage = more power sent to the rear. Originally, VTM-4 could send upt to 50% of the torque to the rear. A few years back, the version used in the MDX was upgraded to about 70%. Not sure if the Pilot ever got the same upgrade. The link above hasn't been updated since 2002.
VTM-4 also incorporates a "locker" of sorts on the rear axle. The two rear wheels may be locked together when the system engages.
There are 3 situations which will engage VTM-4. Here's the short version. VTM-4 will engage when....
1. The system detects slippage. If a front wheel slips, the system will send power through the propshaft to the rear wheels. The system "detects" slippage based on input from sensors in the ABS system, so it reacts purdy darn quick.
2. The driver steps hard on the accelerator. There's a sensor hooked up to the throttle which will enage the rear wheels if the driver aggressively hits the gas. It does this to prevent slippage.
3. The driver puts the vehicle in lock mode. There's a switch on the dash meant to be used at low speeds, on slippery surfaces, or when doing something like pulling up a boat ramp.
My guess is that when loaded with heavy materials, towing a boat out of the water, or other stuff like that, the driver will be stepping on the accelerator with a heavier foot than normal. That might qualify as a #2 situation. Pulling from a stop, they can certainly use the lock mode (#3) to get going. Of course it will revert to reactive mode when they get up around 18 mph, so it's only for that initial tug.
In case of RL (SH-AWD), the setup is for permanent AWD (both axles are powered at all times, with rear wheel(s) receiving as much as 70% and never less than 40% of the torque.
I think the SH-AWD is capable of a permanent power split because it has what Honda calls an "acceleration device" forming a coupling between the rear diff and the prop shaft. That device varies the speed of the front vs the back and thus prevents binding. The VTM-4 design doesn't have one. Hence the 100% FWD mode for regular driving.
Also, I'm wondering, if the Ridgeline is carrying a load in the bed, or pulling a trailer, is more power is shifted to the rear wheels?
Bob
Bob
But given the weight bias, I wouldn't be surprised if Ridgeline is more similar to MDX and Pilot.
The Ridgeline should hit it just right. If Subaru doesn't come in with a contender in the next 2 years, I will very likely swap out my Forester.
John
I don't think the acceleration device is necessarily responsible for distributing power. I believe the clutch packs are capable of handling that. Sending more or less power is not a problem. Allowing the wheels to spin at different speeds (while powering all of them) is the hurdle.
For many designs, this means a center differential.
I expect one of the reasons why VTM-4 (and RT4WD for that matter) revert back to FWD mode as soon as traction is restored is because traction + turning = binding in a system without a diff.
I think the accel device handles that part of the job. It prevents binding.
The Avalanche doesn't do this. On the Chevy, the roof tapers to the bed, then it goes straight back. But that taper (and lack of a 90 degree angle) is just enough of a visual oddity to make them seem similar.
I kinda like the front end of the Ridgeline. The lights are interesting and it's masculine without being over-the-top. But I don't like the profile. Can't tell if it's coming or going. I think Honda could have come up with a better way to make the design stand out from the pack.
Bottom line - From my driving experience, VTM-4 seems well engineered. Honda's been working it out over the years. If Ridgeline version is similar - this is a fairly significant advantage over other pickups .....
<http://www.unimogusa.com/> PS:click on applications when site loads.
John
Oh yeah, the HMMV would turn tail at the sight of one of these bad boys! Talk about reviving all my childhood car dreams.
I posted this a while back, but one of the things Honda had in mind when they designed the bed was crash safety. With cargo in the bed, a frontal crash becomes an automatic rear-ending for the passenger compartment. Honda tested a Toyota (I think it was the Tundra) and found that the cargo easily smashed through the back wall of the cab.
Anyway... wonder if their choice of material was partly driven by that concern. A Honda engineer at NAIAS claimed that the Ridgeline's passenger compartment can withstand the crash test which the Toyota failed.
What is up with the headline?
Anyway, one point of interest. They said they drag raced a Ridgeline and an F-150 with the 5.4 V8 (I think), both pulling 5,000 lb trailers. The F-150 won, but apparently not by much. Looks like the Ridgeline will have enough towing capability for me.
Sounds promising, but you have to remember that sprinting and hauling over distance are two different animals. Heat build-up would be one of the important factors that would probably not show up in a sprint.
3.5L VTEC-V6 vs. 5.3L V8
255hp & 245 ft lbs vs. 295hp & 330 ft lbs
Mileage 16/21* (Estimated) vs. 14-16/17-20mpg
Width 77.8" vs. 79.8" (excludes mirrors)
Length 206.8" vs. 221.0" (Av has bumpers F/R)
Height 70.3" vs. 73.6" (Wheels can affect this)
Wheel track 67.1" vs. 66.9"
Seats 5 vs. 5 or 6
Hip Room F/R 40.7/39.1 vs. 40.7/38.6
Leg Room F/R 40.8/36.4 vs. 41.3/38.9
Shoulder Room 63.2/62.6 vs. 65.2/65.2
Hip Room 57.6/57.2 vs. 61.4/62.0
Ground clearance 8.2 vs. 8.6-9.6
Bed Dimensions
Length 60.0 vs. 63.0
Depth 20.7 vs 22.5
Width 49.5 vs 49.0
Storage 8.5 in trunk vs. 6.2 in side boxes
Covers Optional vs. Standard 41.0 Sq ft lockable
Bed Mat Optional vs. Standard
Composite bed Yes vs. Yes
Tailgate Capacity 300lbs vs. 1,500 rolling
Midgate No vs. Yes
Rear Window Power vs. Removable
Towing Up to 5,000lbs vs 7,000to12,000 lbs.
Transfer case No vs. Yes
Lock Rear Diff? No vs. Yes
Base price $28,000+ vs. $32,000+
So, the numbers were closer than I imagined! The Ridgeline is only 2 inches shy in width! It's 15 inches shorter overall, but lack the protective Fron and Rear bumpers that most trucks have. The front seat dimensions are competitive, though the back seat seems to be tight in comparison to an Av. I also must admit that the price and MPG were closer than I expected. Given the fact there are no stripper Avalanches, plus the new Toyota Tacoma, Nissan Frontier, Chevy Colorado, and Dodge Dakota...I'd say it'll be an interesting battle in the marketplace. Just what does American want?
What are your impressions thus far? ???
ALSO- and this is important--AWD and IRS on the Honda.
John
My competitve set was the Tacoma and Frontier in crew cab... I wanted the passenger space of four doors put more utility than your average SUV. I don't really tow things but wouldn't mind the capability should I need it. I need the bed to transport landscaping materials as I've recently built a house and will be doing all the landscaping on my 3 acre + lot. I'm sure the bed will come in handy for hauling plenty of other things in the future as well (mountain bikes, skis, golf clubs, building materials, furniture, etc., etc., etc.)
And I need AWD/4WD for our New England winters.
I was prepared to accept the comprimises of those vehicles (less than ideal ride, higher step in height, less than spacious back seats, etc.) until I saw the Ridgeline... I haven't tested it yet, but I'm 99% sold by what I've seen so far in terms of design.
As per the styling, yes, I agree that some angles can look odd. But then again, it's starting to grow on me and I think it's not a deal breaker... I'm not into how it looks, I'm into how it works!
I went over to that "Temple of V-Tec" site linked above... great video with the engineer in charge of the project talking about facets of the car. It is exteremly well thought out and executed of a design... pracitcality/utility and a good understanding of how the target consumer would really use the vehicle drove several smart design decisions.
Pros-
+ The trunk is brilliant.
+ Composite cargo liner is nice and the payload/towing are more than adequate for my needs.
+ Best in class gas mileage
+ Best in class interior space... esp. the back seat
+ very smart touches in the interior... the center console is trick! All controls are designed to be easy to operate with gloves on... that's just good thinking.
+ Rear seat provides additoinal functionality/storage by being a 60/40 split
+ Can carry 4 ft. building materials BETWEEN the wheel wells.
+ tie down cleats and good lighting in the bed
+ It's a Honda, so you know it will be well built and reliable
The minuses
- I would have loved to see an integrated roof rack of some sort
- No pass through ala the avalanche
- Styling is different... but I'm warming up to it
- No rail system for adjustable cleats/devices ala the Frontier
- didn't see a power outlet in the rear.. (the one on the Tacoma is trick)
- Can it accomidate a bed cap?
- It's not at my local Honda dealer RIGHT NOW!
I'm geeked to drive one...
Pete
One thing not mentioned ...
Side CURTAIN airbags:
STANDARD in Ridgeline
NOT AVAILABLE in Avalanche
Avalanche has OPTIONAL SIDE airbags to protect shoulder - but not the CURTAIN type that protect head in side impact or rollover.
This is major advantage IMHO ...
That high line makes the bed harder to get into from the sides, which limits it's usability. Not to mention is makes the vehicle just look plain weird.
Other minor points, I expected a little better gas milage from Honda. I can get 20 MPG in my big V8 chevy full size. Why only 21 in a 6 by Honda? I also hope the radio options are a little better, as the pictures don't give a good feeling that it's a decent system.
Everything else is extremely positive. Having driven some of the Honda SUV's this guy has a lot of potential.
"I don't understand the need or desire for the high angled line on the sides of the bed. If they straightened it out, and simplified it would be 1. less expesive, 2. more attractive (imo)." - narg
The sides are that high to cure a few aerodynamic issues. In the videos mentioned above, the LPL explains several aero-related enhancements, including the odd-looking tail gate (doesn't match the height of the sides).
I agree that it will make getting over the sides more difficult. The whole bed seems kinda high, too. Liftover may be a problem for some.
I think the Honda representative pointed out the reason why composite beds are not more widespread: they are far more expensive (pound for pound) and most consumers, given the option, do not care enough about the material to incur the added expense (and wait, as apparently GM did not mfg the composite bed unless it was pre-ordered).