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My one real complaint about the car is price. I want adaptive headlights, BU camera & the blindspot/cross traffic system that, after using them, I consider worthwhile safety additions, The only way I can get them on the Z is to buy packages containing items I don't want or need; and they push the sticker price to well over $40,000. This not a $40,000 car. A comparable Fusion, minus the adaptive headlights, with a less upscale interior lists for $11,000 less! This one is off my short list.
As far as the options go, I too was frustrated when I went through the Z site and found that to get certain things, I had to order packages that included things I didn't want. If I didn't want them in the first place, I surely don't want to have to pay for them. I know other companies do the same thing, doesn't make it right. Making these things standalone options would help sales of the Z, IMO.
I test drove the 07 and 08 Z and didn't like the ride. I thought it was a bit stiff. I would have no interest in the sport suspension. Glad they made that an option.
And you know this how? Just because it seems overpriced to you doesn't mean other buyers feel the same.
Besides - Hermosillo is limited to about 300,000 Fusions, Milans and MKZs per year - total and the new Fusion and Milan should be able to sell almost that many on their own. Sounds like they decided to make the MKZ lower volume but higher profit. You may not like it but given the circumstances it sounds like the right business decision. I guess only time will tell.
If the Fulans can sell close to 300,000 units on their own then my guess would be that with the next redesign the MKZ will get all of the currently missing features plus 100% unique sheetmetal and possibly move to another plant. But that's probably 3 years out.
It is a blast to drive, it is quite, fast, and drives like so much better than my Zephyr. my car is number 1196 if i am reading the vin right.
Also, out of curiosity, what audio system did you get? I kicked off a few posts concerning CD changer vs the new THX so, I'm a little interested in what buyers are going for.
As I got the sport version the ride is stiff, but after the zephyr, i wanted that way as I like a performance feeling car.
I have the THX and it sounds better than the Zephyr, very clear, but does not seem as loud? With the option of burning CDs to the HD way would you need a changer?
let me know if you have any other questions.
All that being said, I would wait till the 09 inventory is gone before buying this car. The discounts will come as they always do. If the 2010 rolls down to $26K it becomes a very compelling buy.
Mechanical: More powerful and refined engine. Slightly better ride. Not quite as good as the ES but, better than my Z. Quieter. Again not quite the ES but, pretty quiet. Seemed to handle about the same.
Exterior: The first thing I noticed was the really big grill. It appears overdone. It's not as nice as the MKS front end. The MKZ grill reminded me of a mouthfull of horse teeth. Maybe it's something I could get used to but, for now, it just seems too massive. An article I read stated that the old ugly tail lights were replaced with new ugly tail lights. I agree. In fact, I like the old better. The new tail lights gave me the impression of a work in progress as though the back end wasn't finished yet. It reminded me of days gone by when the neighborhood kids would try and customize a car. They couldn't afford to go all out on it so, they would just replace what was there with something non-descript and you could see that something just wasn't right. Other than the grill and tail lights the exterior appeared identical.
Interior: This is what really disappointed me. I didn't like it. The dash has a better layout but, it's downhill from there. The first thing that jumps out at you is the immense amount of black (even with the tan interior). Two thirds of the dash is black, the console is black and one third of the door panels is black. Even the seat trim piping (which I detest) is black. The scant amount of interior wood is lost in all of that black and is barely noticeable. It created a very dark and somber feeling; not at all like the light, cheery feel of my Z. I even prefer the old steering wheel. While sitting in the car, at no time did I get the impression that I was sitting in a "luxury" car. It just doesn't seem to convey that kind of dynamic. It quite honestly, felt more like a Fusion. It needs more wood, way less black and a little more elegance and less pedestrain feel. Even without the piping, the seats don't look anywhere near as rich and inviting as the ES.
The 2010 MKZ is the car that should have been introduced in 06. Then, I think a 2010 refreshening could have made this car competive with the ES, CTS, Infinti, etc. I think it's still behind. And what is really going to punish sales is the new price point. The only options on the car on the lot was the Nav/stereo and moonroof. With tax, it came to almost $41K!!!! THIS IS NOT A $41,000 CAR. I believe this car to be at least $5K over priced. I think for this car to sell, Ford needs to come out with rebates in the $3000 to $3500 range. Otherwise, it's going to get killed. How many people out there are going to buy the MKZ when they can get a pretty much comparably equipped ES or Acura for the same price? I don't think many.
Ford could have done a much better job on the 2010. IMO, the MKZ presents itself better online than it does in person. I really wanted to like this car but, I just don't. Check it out.
Again, IMO.
And while it may not have as much wood, the new interior looks way better than the old one. I actually bought a Fusion back in 05 over the Zephyr because of the interior. The wood was nice but the angle and design was terrible.
IMO of course.
Your complaint about the interior is mostly about color. Some people prefer black interiors, but I don't like them either. Too much black, but to each his or her own. The 2010 interior however does use better materials and has better cut lines. To me it looks more competitive.
And the thing is quiet. That is a must for a luxury car. Ford should have cut the price while giving more equipment. That is working for other companies. Bottom line, the current MKZ no matte what they do will be an also-ran until the next generation gives Lincoln something unique from a loaded Fusion.
We liked the black interior, although we wouldn’t buy black just for the heat gain, and didn’t think it looked too somber. We did look at a couple with the parchment interior, and I thought the combination of tan and black looked good. I also thought the interior was a great improvement over the 2009 MKZ in terms of design, ergonomics, and apparent materials quality.
As for the exterior styling, I think the taillights are a vast improvement and are what they should have been from the beginning. While the grill will obviously be polarizing, I liked it, too, although I like the 2002 Continental concept grill better. But, the split wing grill is very distinctive.
Shortly after our test drive I saw a red 2010 MKZ on the road and thought “that’s one sharp looking car”.
My Z has been the most dependable, trouble free car I have ever owned and I truly wanted to get the MKZ this coming December/January. But, I honestly don't like it. I believe you are right when you say the MKZ will be an also ran until the next generation. I'm afraid that by then, the MKZ will be defined by the buying public as just that - an also ran. If that's the case the MKZ will continue to struggle with sales. It was important for Ford to nail it with this revision and they simply didn't do it. It's an improvement but, after the 06, 07, 08 and 09, the 10 should have been better.
More and more, it seems as though the consensus on this board is that the 2010 MKZ is over priced. No reason to think that the buying public will think anything different.
I know this is the MKZ board but, does anyone know how sales are with the MKS? I'm on I-95 and the Baltimore beltway everyday and I have seen only one.
Through April, YTD sales of the MKS totaled 5,775 and the MKZ was 6,706.
My wife saw the MKZ sitting next to the Milan and wondered about the price difference, too. In her mind, the styling differences and badge weren't worth the extra dollars. I believe akirby has said the Z offers more sound deadening, thicker side glass, maybe some doodads its stable mates don't, and pointed that out to her. We probably should have driven the Milan or Fusion back to back with the MKZ in order to judge the ride, quiet, etc. But, point is, you may be right about what the buying public thinks. Lincoln has a tough road to travel to turn perceptions around.
Given the 2010 MKZ was just a mid cycle refresh, I think Ford did a heck of a lot more than should be expected. Who puts out a brand new car and puts in new interiors, new front and rear clips and 4 new drivetrains after only 3.5 years (not 4)? Nobody.
When the new models arrive in 3 years or so I think you'll see unique sheetmetal all the way around (like the MKS) and a more cohesive design along with more amenities and a new drivetrain. By then Ford will be over the hump on the new products (Fiesta, Explorer, Focus) and will have more resources to spare.
Your Thoughts :shades:
Automotive Addicts review of the 2010 Lincoln MKZ
I went back to the L-M dealership to have another look, in case I could be persuaded when the big rebates start. I liked the interior even less the second time. There's more black than I first thought: almost the whole dash, the console, 1/3 of the door panels, the carpet, door pillars, lower interior door wells and piping. Wow, might as well make everything black. I wonder if those of you that say you prefer the new interior are, in fact, focusing on the new dash and lines and not the entire package. The new lines are an improvement but, I actually prefer the old interior overall. To me, it has a more elegant look and feel about it. Reducing all of that black would really help. Here's a somewhat funny story that I swear is true. I had just gotten out if the new MKZ when a salesmann came over. He asked how I liked it. I said too much black inside for me. He said, well that's the charcoal interior. If you got the camel interior it wouldn't be so dark. I said, it is the camel interior. No, he said, this has the charcoal. I said, you better check. He walked over to the car, looked in the window and still refused to admit it was the tan until he looked at the invoice. Finally, he said, you're right, it is the tan. Said the car has been on the lot for 2 weeks and the whole time he thought it had the charcoal interior. I felt vidicated.
Anyway, Ford has made a grave error in pricing this car at over $34K. The price point puts it right in the middle of some serious heavyweight competitors at the same time the buying public essentially considers the MKZ nothing more than a loaded Fusion. Therefore, they either get a loaded Fusion and pocket about $12K or they buy elsewhere. Perception is everything. This is set up to be a sales disaster.
Here's my suggestions to Ford:
1. Lower the base to just under $30K. For now, this is where this car should be.
2. Get rid of the interior black overload. This will give it a more rich, elegant look.
3. Offer an interior upgrade option. More wood on dash & doors.
There are other improvements needed but, for 2010, they are not doable. The things I listed can be done quite easily. I think Ford really has to do something quick. Mechanically, I think the MKZ is competitive but, I don't think it has the look and feel the buying public has in mind at the current price point.
I think you're overestimating the sales targets for this vehicle. Since Hermosillo can only produce 300,000 vehicles (including Fusion, Milan and MKZ and including exports to South and Latin America) and the Fusion and Milan sales are expected to be quite high I think Ford will be happy with lower volume and higher profits on each one.
The point is you can't look at the MKZ as a stand alone vehicle due to production capacity limitations.
A few minutes ago I was at a traffic light behind a new black Avalon and that reminded me of something else I thought peculiar when I was at the L-M dealership on Saturday. Since they dropped the navy blue on the new MKZ, my next choice was black. However, it's not black - it's black metallic with a gazillion gold flecks. From a distance it looks black but, up close, it kind of grays out. And depending on the angle, it can really look "different." Next to the MKZ was an SUV of some sort and, like the Avalon, it was a true black. Deep and glossy, what black should be. The sticker didn't indicate a special paint so, I'm assuming you can't get true black exterior paint in the MKZ. That's really weird.
It is tuxedo black - first introduced on the MKS last year. Now it has spread to the MKZ and Fusion. You are right - the traditional gloss black clearcoat is not available. Apparently a lot of people like the tuxedo black. I don't happen to be one of them. It looks like a dark gray to me - or black with a coat of dust on it.
it would probably be tough to paint match for a repair though.
i would want it over a straight black.
to me, lincolns look best in black.
Just finished looking at Infiniti, Audi, BMW middle lines, plus AWD MKZ Quickly ruled out Lexus 350 as too boring. It came down to the Bimmer vs MKZ. Back-to-back test drives led to my choosing the Lincoln. You're probably thinking I'm either a fossil or a wacko, and in either case I probably wear a white belt and white shoes and still watch Lawrence Welk and Love Boat reruns.
Nope -- I'm not 500 years old. In fact, I've leased both a 528i (my favorite car in 40 years of buying cars) and an MKZ in recent years, and was really wanting another Bimmer.
In favor of the MKZ -- A surprise to me: More acceleration than the 528 (not the 535 though); quieter running; much more comfortable seating (even without factoring in the cooled seats) more back seat legroom, fold-down seats at no extra charge, backup camera and BLIS vs. BMW's front/back sensors, better driver crash ratings (I found that hard to believe, so I doublechecked: five stars for the MKZ driver and three (!?!?!?) for the BMW. Lincoln --better sound system, though I could care less about Synch (like I'll ever figure THAT THING out!) MPG roughly comparable, but Lincoln does it with "regular."
MKZ price was about $12-14K less, but that was far from the deciding factor. Going into the process, I knew the BMW would be that much more, but I still in my heart of hearts wanted the Bimmer. Until I drove them back to back.
Looks -- defnitely subjective. But both interiors seemed a little plainer than I would have liked, though in different ways. Too much Ford in the MKZ interior, but much too bland in the BMW and with needless, affected starter button. Exteriors: To me the Lincoln design (albeit as one forum writer put it, a tarted Fusion) equals or betters the BMW. I've never been a Bangle fan though, and neither exterior is merits any special praise to my mind.
Against the MKZ -- dealer experience. Long drawn out waits (at times, 15-20 minutes) in the not-to-classy Lincoln showroom while the sales person went behind the curtain to confer the Wizard of Oz. Lack of inventory at the Lincoln store -- had to order it. Zero MKZ dealer discount vs. $3k discount from BMW. No loaners for the MKZ when being serviced, but always available BMW loaners at the BMS dealer. BMW showroom and service areas immaculate, professional looking as befitting the brand. As for the Lincoln digs, they're shoved into what used to be the used car building(?) adjacent to the dealer's Ford store, with people nearly tripping over one another, and room for only one car on the floor at most.
Also working against the MKZ -- absolutely no cachet, prestige or whatever you want to call it. None, no how and no way. Zilch. What I usually got with the last MKZ from people was something like, "Hey sharp car -- what kind is it?!" When I'd tell them, the subject changed.
One other point -- yes, certainly in the hands of a competent sports car nut, or professonal driver, the BMW will out-everything the Lincoln. But unless I inadvertently become a star feature on "World's Greatest Police Chase Videos," I will never need or experience the differences. And beside -- even a Bimmer can't outrun the LA traffic copters.
I think Ford will have to wait for the Fusion/Mondeo merger where we'll see a new U.S. plant in addition to Hermosillo and we'll see the Milan dropped and the Fusion move upmarket some (just like the Taurus). That will allow the MKZ to also move upmarket with unique sheetmetal and Lincoln's best gadgets and powertrains.
Ford did take my advice on one thing. Late this summer an "Executive Appearance Package" will be available for the MKZ. Among other things, it includes upgraded seating, new door trim (hopefully getting rid of that black vinyl overload) and a wood console. This will certainly help out with the interior but, you are going to have to pay for it. I'm going to get 2010 something or other and would consider an MKZ. The problem, though, is that I want a nice stereo and Nav. Since I don't like the std interior I would have to opt for the upgrade which would bring the MKZ in at about $42K! THIS IS NOT A $42,000 CAR!!! AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN!
My advice to Ford - make the interior upgrade pkg std and offer a $2,500 rebate. The MKZ is competitive in many ways. It is not competitive in name recognition, cachet, image, perception, prestige or whatever you want to call it and unfortunately, those things are very important at that price point.
There are obviously discounts to be had on an MKZ and there may be rebates at some point. Earlier this summer, local dealers were advertising 2009s for around $26,000, IIRC. However, I kind of like the idea of limiting inventory, pricing cars reasonably with minimal need for rebates, and making profit.
Yes, Allen, that is all well and good. However, it makes my point too. Well before auto sales tanked, and going back to the tail end of the era when Lincoln was doing well, they only issued concepts they had no intention of building. Now, Bill Ford may have hated Lincoln--I don't know--but the Continental, Navicross, Mark X, etc. were given no chance of production precisely at the time Lincoln really needed some new metal.
The Zephyr/MKZ was a total afterthought (after everyone was saying, OMG we got nothin'). For the first couple years of its production, it really showed. No, Ford wouldn't need to build any MKZs, as the capacity could be used fully for Fusions and Milans. But what poor planning. With as much hurt as Cadillac is in now, where would they be if they had decided to use a bit of excess Malibu capacity to build a tarted up Chevrolet into a Cadillac?
If Lincoln had actually invested in a dedicated mid-sizer as Cadillac did, I daresay Lincoln would have been doing significantly better than Cadillac these past 4-5 years. As long as MKZ is really not necessary to Ford's bottom line (and it is not), Lincoln will continue to suffer lower sales.
But what poor planning.
Exactly. Mulally and the new regime changed all that thinking 2 years ago but as we've discussed over and over they have to fix the volume brand first before they can fix Lincoln. Ford can't survive if they don't fix the core brand so Lincoln will just have to get by on table scraps until then.
Even so, there are a few good signs that Lincoln is headed in the right direction:
100% unique sheetmetal for the MKS
new interior for the MKZ (not usually done on a mid cycle refresh)
New MKS tech features (adaptive cruise, park assist, etc.)
What good does it do to jack up rebates just to get sales volume unless you're temporarily overstocked? That's what got Ford in this trouble to start with - making too many cars and putting too much money on the hood. That kills resale value. What Ford is doing now is cutting production to match demand so that they don't have to put cash on the hood.
Putting cash on the hood is not the answer to sustainable profitability. Any extra plant capacity not used by the MKZ can be filled with Fusions and Milans which are selling quite well.
Why? Because there are no standalone Lincoln-Mercury dealerships in SF Bay area anymore. How can you imagine Silicon Valley and SF types who used to buy BMWs and Porches suddenly ecide to go to Ford dealership’s to buy presumably “luxury” car. Even though they know that Lincolns are just more expensive versions of Ford models neverless.
Even Honda has dedicated Acura-only dealerships. But even when there were separate Lincoln-Mercury dealerships – they were in worse shape than Ford dealerships. So may be by merging with Ford dealerships Lincoln-Mercury actually went UPSCALE. I remember several years time ago shopping at Sunnyvale Lincoln-Mercury and sales consultant offered me to buy Kia (it was actually Lincoln-Mercury-Kia!). Insulted I left dealership immediately. Even My son refused to consider Huiday, let alone Kia, when we were shopping for his first new car.
I have a great idea. Let's stop making the MKZ altogether. That way ALL capacity can be devoted to the Fusion and Milan. You seem to be fixated on the idea that Ford isn't interested in selling any MKZs. Perhaps you are correct but, I think Ford better be interested in selling MKZs because I think that is the most important vehicle in the Lincoln lineup. They will never sell a lot of MKSs. It's a nice car but, the price point will make it a hard sell. It may be overpriced (I'm not real familiar with that market segment) but, I think the problem is that when people think of spending upwards of $50K for a car, they think "foreign." The Town Car is going away and I don't think SUVs or Crossovers represent the core segment for a luxury brand. They help but, I think the work horse for any luxury brand is still the "intro" vehicle - the ES, the CTS, the 325i, the G37, etc. This is why the MKZ is so important.
IMO, Ford needs to sell more MKZs. There need to be more on the road. Lincoln needs to be more visible. The buying public needs to know Lincoln is still around and "desirable." No one advocates giving the MKZ away but, it has to be priced appropiately at this point in time. Again, IMO, the 2010 is significantly overpriced and is not going to sell in numbers the Lincoln brand desperately needs. I get the concept that Fusion is very important to Ford, but the MKZ is also very important to Lincoln.
And in a long winded way this gets me to the heart of my post. I think "Kirby" and "brucelink" are missing the point of my rebate comments. Ideally, the 2010 MKZ would have been priced at $2500 or so less right out of the gate. This would have gotten more people into the showroom. No company likes to lower the price of a product midstream. It just doesn't look good. However, companies get around inappropriate (for whatever reason) pricing by the use of rebates. It's been done in the auto industry now for almost two decades, the public completely buys into the concept and the company still turns a profit. Companies that follow a policy of selling one item for $1000 profit rather than selling 10 items for $500 profit each, usually aren't in business very long. It's not about "putting cash on the hood." It's about adjusting the price to a point where the public will buy your product and you still make money. If Lexus can offer rebates surely Lincoln can. The idea is to get more MKZs on the road and viable. Once it has been accepted as a "Lexus alternative" you can raise the price gradually.
Can anyone give a link or website so we can actually see how ALL car sales are progressing? I would be interested in knowing how the 2010 MKZ and its competitors are doing.
Lincoln does not need "numbers" or "market presence" right now - they need profits - pure and simple.
You want Lincoln to go after market share by pricing a competitive vehicle way below the competition. If Ford was not struggling to make a profit AND the MKZ was where Lincoln wanted it (100% unique sheetmetal, new powertrains, new Lincoln styling) AND they weren't constrained by plant capacity - then it might make sense.
All I'm saying is they can't do it NOW - it doesn't make business sense in the current environment.
How will customers who come from Lexus, Acura , etc., ever accept the downgrade in amenities? These two Lincoln stores had none of the following, but the BMW, Audi, Infiniti in the area do: snack bar, free water bottles and soft drinks, muffins (a.m.) baked on the premises, hook-up ports for computers, large comfortable chairs, Starbucks coffee machine, wide-screen monitors, etc.
You get the idea. I imagine that both LM stores are just hanging on. There is no money to put into facilities that customers from other brands are used to. My point is that, we can talk about increasing Lincoln's cache, the value and such, but the surroundings these cars are in send a negative message. The message to first-time Lincoln shoppers is this: "Lincoln, you don't show a commitment to playing on a level I am used to."