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There is one old Lincoln name that is actually not bad, and has no baggage: Lincoln Premier.
I'm sure the name Zephyr won't deter committed buyers if the car is worthwhile but I do feel certain, a name like that ain't gonna help. I just don't understand the need to hobble it with one more needless obstacle.
Ford and LM have enough issues as it is.
Sable - Sephia - Camry - Avalon - just to name a few.
I ran out of time before I could expand upon my list of irritating car names. Add to my list;
Windstar, Freestar, Milan, Fusion, Lumina, Cobalt, LaCrosse, Rendezvous.
That (needing glasses) doesn't really happen, BTW.
I find it disappointing that the latest Ford models with the 6 speed automatic lack the ability to manually select and hold the intermediate gears. Some of the early driving reports have also commented on that. Before someone says, "you should just leave it in "drive," anyway, let me give you a couple of examples of why manual control is desirable for me.
In our nasty Twin Cities traffic, I am often on freeways crawling along at between 5 and 25 MPH, sometimes for several miles. With my LS, 3rd is perfect to avoid the constant upshifting and downshifting. With my Ranger, 2nd (which is really 3rd) is great. With my wife's Taurus, however, which lacks any meaningful manual control, it is constantly upshifting or downshifting at the wrong times and a smooth driving experience is difficult. Also, manual control is very desirable in mountain driving.
Can we look forward to a "select-shift" type shifter or at least a revision to the current set-up on future models - especially on the upcoming 500-based Lincolns?
That will be rectified when the new 6 speed transmission being built with GM, debut.
While I wouldn't consider the current Zephyr to replace my LS with 100,000 trouble free miles on it, I think it could be more popular than some think. I wish they had waited until the 3.5 was ready to introduce the car, though. The initial road tests will likely criticize the 3.0 and those first impressions can be important.
Other than those owned by the rear-wheel drive purists, I would not be surprised to see some V6 LSs replaced with Zephyrs. Having a car with a real name (like it or not) and equal or higher levels of luxury and performance at a decent price could be pretty compelling for some.
The CVT might post 20/29 on the window sticker, yet average 24-26MPG from the data I'm seeing. So possiblities are there, but some vehicles cannot work with a CVT (such as a Mustang), or with trucks (limitations). Therefore it's still being debated as to what the next steps will be.
Personally, I would like to see a CVT Focus. But because of the high costs of manufacturing an CVT, it's not something you wish to implement on a vehicle with lower margins, "economy class" vehicle as a Focus.
Speaking of CVT, there's IVT's (Torotrak), which can work on any vehicle without limitations.
Bruce,
The V6 standard engine on the LS was dropped for 2006 so the Zephyr becomes the V6 recipient (different version though). This will allow the implementation of the future 3.5L and be able to tool up for it's production.
By the way, when the 3.5 is available in the Zephyr, will it replace the 3.0 or will the 3.0 still be offered? I understand AWD should be available at about the same time. Will the 3.5 be available in the front drive version or just the AWD?
Obviously Lincoln would have preferred to debut the Zephyr with the 3.5L but since it isn't ready and they desperately need new vehicles they chose to go with the 3.0L rather than delay the car for another year or two.
Originally the 3.5L was to be the replacement engine for the 3.0L in the LS, but since that program was killed prior to the release of the engine, deemed pointless.
Exactly. Judging from the
Five Hundreds I DON'T see on the road, I'm assuming the introduction of this new car hasn't been the Taurus reborn. That sickens me, because I believe it to be a great car, groundbreaking in the tall nature of the seating, which, by the way, I like. Why though, did they have to make it so bland? Just because Toyota is stunningly successful with ugly cars, doesn't mean Ford will be. Toyotas still sell because they're so good, not because they're ugly. Chrysler proves that - they bring out knockouts, one after another, and under the skin, they're pretty mediocre, IMO, but they sell.
I don't think the 3.0L is the problem with the 500, or the Zephyr. It'll depend on the look and feel of the car, more than the engine, especially with the gas like it is.
http://tinyurl.com/c9728
For example, the 3.5 coupled with CVT or even a select-shift 6 speed automatic would help move the Zephyr up the rung a bit from where it is now from a mechanical standpoint. Perhaps, setting new standards for some other thing like low noise levels, best in class driving dynamics, or "surprise and delight" features would also help it apart and have people say, "Wow, I really like this!" instead of "Hmmm....this is not bad...." Hopefully the Zephyr will have that special "something."
I agree it's not all the engine - particularly in the 500. The lack of power has been addressed by most of the automotive press, however, and that couldn't have helped. My wife, who drives a Duratec Taurus and never reads road-tests, drove a 500 that we rented from Hertz and noted that "it drives nice but it's not as zippy as my Taurus."
As NvBanker says, the bland look of the 500 is a problem. There was a 500 and a Fusion on display at the Minnesota State fair and based on the crowds around the Fusion, it will not suffer the same fate. The Fusion looks like a home run in the styling department. The 500 just sat gathering dust while the Fusion was getting very strong compliments from everyone.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/auto/car-news-car12.html
Hmmm.
LINCOLN NEEDS TO MARKET THIS PRODUCT RIGHT...YA SEE...THE WAY HONDA AND TOYOTA HAS BRAINWASHED THE MARKET...THIS WAY LINCOLN COULD DOUBLE AND EVEN TRIPLE THEIR PROJECTED ZEPHYR SALES...MARKETING IS THE KEY.
THE ZEPHYR IS A BEAUTIFULLY ARTICULATED COMBINATION OF SPORTY AND SLEEK LINES, AS WELL AS, LUXURIOUS AND TASTEFUL DETAIL...IT'S ALMOST PERFECT. THE WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION, SUSPENSION, TRANSMISSION TORQUE, AND ENGINE HORSEPOWER (EVEN ON THE 221HP 3.0L - DESPITE WHAT THE KNOW IT ALL PINHEADS SAY) FIT LIKE A GLOVE...A GLOVE THAT CATCHES EVERYTHING...AND I HOPE IT'LL CATCH THE DISCERNING BUYER WHO WANTS VVAALLUUEE!
I HAVE NOT BEEN THIS EXCITED ABOUT A LINCOLN SINCE I STARTED SELLING THEM 7 MONTHS AGO.
Thanks for the input, but use the shift key, please! We really can see, even if we are the target market for one of the oldest lines of vehicles in America...
I don't know if the Zephyr will sway customers looking at a Lexus ES330 or even a Chrysler 300, but there are tons of people out there driving Taurus and Sables who will have a high-quality similar sized FWD Ford product to move up to without breaking the bank. That is more than they had before.
As for marketing of the Zephyr, you might want to read this.
What, you don't know that Lincoln makes an Explorer based SUV called the Aviator? :confuse:
What, you don't know that they KILLED the Aviator back in July and are no longer making them? :confuse:
When you start comparing the Zephyr to other cars, the surface glitz doesn't hold up. How can Lincoln promote a near luxury car these days, with no electronic stability program, no brake assist, not electronic brake force distribution, no nothing (to set it apart from Camrys, Accords, etc.)?
The 2006 Hyundai Sonata offers all those things STANDARD, plus better mileage, more power, more room, same quiet interior for $10,000 less. Of course the Sonata does not pretend to be near luxury, like the pretend Lincoln.
Looking at true near luxury competition, use Lexus as an example. The IS 3.5 has more power, far more electronic drive controls, similar quiet, good mileage, more power, and the more expensive-to-build rear wheel drive. The ES330 is similarly priced and better equipped, although certainly a more boring car than the Zephyr.
The reason why Zephyr looks so good to some people is that the Fusion is good--and Lincolns in general are so mediocre (the LS excepted). The best Lincoln is the LS, but Lincoln has ignored it. Although it is balanced, powerful and well-sized (only 3" longer than Zephyr), it has never been promoted properly and should have had a re-skin and new and classier interior for 2006.
HID headlamps
THX Stereo
Navigation system
Memory Seats
Dual-Zone automatic HVAC
Keyless entry Keypad
Chrome wheels
Upgraded Leather (sat in both and there is a big difference)
Upgraded sound insulation
Upgraded interior (granted it's not a huge upgrade)
Yes, it should have the 3.5L V6 but that will happen next year. The best direct comparison is the ES330, not the sporty RWD IS.
Whether it's worth the price difference is a matter of personal preference. And most people buying this type of car won't care much about HP.
FoMoCo is short of engine choices across the line. Compare the options between the F150 and Silverado, or 500 and 2006 Impala. Even with one engine choice, Ford is outgunned usually (Navigator v. Escalade, Town Car v. DTS). They simply must do something about that. Putting a 3.5 in the Zephyr is a start, but then that engine will also likely go into 500, Montego and who knows what else? What's coming after the 3.5? Does Ford have a clue yet?
Marketing does not equal a localized New York city advertising blitz campaign although after reviewing some messages I admit the brainwashing of the public with Lexus ES330, Acura TL, Mercedes, etc. is almost impossible to overcome...step outside of the box of limited space and time and realize many are brainwashed by the imports. All Lexus, Acura, and the like, are, deressed up versions of Toyota, Honda, Volkswagon, etc...and quality cutting corners of the same (to save money) that effect performance are proven (by empirical evidence)not only in expert opinion reading/magazines but in reliability, dependability, and test driving as well...yet it is this so called expert trade magazine and media reviews which stay in business with/by corporate payment and backing with mind controlling promotion and endorsement. All these so called superior vehicles are not what they used to be...also they cost an arm and a leg to maintain and repair properly...(remember the Acura Legend...now that was a true winner in its day)...remember they do not make them like they used to...the RL can not touch that car...Also addressing the chatter about limited options, engines, etc....too many choices, too much product, and over manufacturing leads to cost over runs, consumer indecision, and compromised production quality...and poor management decisions.. then the government is queried to help the industry out...the market is too segmented as it is...and in the mean time while the so called upper echelon has cut corners...the domestics are constantly improving...kind of like Nissan...marketing means perception...which is accomplished by brainwashing...just keep reading the internet chatter of the so-called "pin-heads"...and I do not mean this term in any negative connotation...we are who we are...keep an open mind despite the odds." The Zephyr is a great car and for the money I would buy one!
~alpha
Rumor is there will also be an auxilliary jack added to the stereo and I'm guessing Sirius satellite will also be available.
They are purposely introducing new things slowly to ensure a quality and recall free launch and will be adding things as they go.
Supposedly there will be an AWD Fusion ST next year with the 3.5L duratec.
Now, look at what Toyota does with the ES300 and Camry. They do not share a single body panel or even the roofline. Or the Lincoln LS and Jaguar S Type (no one could tell they share a lot underneath just by looking at them). Even GM, though its cars are not selling like hotcakes, completely differentiates the alike-underneath Chevy Impala, Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick LaCrosse. They don't even share window glass.
Lincoln needs more differentiation from its sister divisions to justify the prices. The Mark LT is the most egregious example. It IS an F150 with more chrome. They didn't even change the front facia--only the grill insert.
Lincolns are not bad vehicles. Sales would jump if they readjusted prices downward to highline Mercury levels--which is what Lincoln is now (the soon-to-be-killed LS excepted).
It's sad that Lincoln lost the Aviator. It has always been a person favorite in that class. Now Lincoln's lineup is now 5 cars, with the LS near it's end and the Mark LT's demise can't be too far away. That new Mustang based coupe better hurry, 2009 seems too far away to go on with such a limited lineup.
Lincoln really missed the boat (as Ford did by not marketing the 427 concept) by not bringing the Lincoln Continental concept (reminiscient of the '61 Lincoln) to market. As the new Mustang shows, if you do heritage well (very current but respectful of the original design), everyone loves it. If you don't do it well (new Thunderbird), it flops. The two sedans will be front-drive....unfortunate as the rest of the luxury industry gravitates toward RWD. Still, if they do them right, like Audi, the AWD versions could shine. Plus, there is that 2009 Lincoln Mustang. Remember how differentiated the 1980s T-bird and Marks were? It could happen again.
And they will only be offered with AWD and at least an option V8. FWD is only for the Zephyr.
The LS didn't die from lack of marketing. It died because Ford decided not to sell them in Europe and also decided not to make any new vehicles from the dew98 platform. It's too expensive (ok for jag since they're considerably more expensive) and can't use the corporate 4.6L V8s. Without european sales and more models to share the platform costs plus the one-off 3.9L V8 and all aluminum suspension it became too expensive to keep. And it wasn't that rigid - the thunderbird had to use cross braces behind the seats which made it impossible to use for the new mustang convertible since it had to have a back seat.
I think closing Wixom was also part of the long term plan. Why waste advertising on a car that loses money? I love mine but it just doesn't make sense to keep it from a business standpoint.
As for the LS, platforms can be modified. The Mustang platform is a derivative of the DEW98. So is the new Jaguar XJ sedan. If Lincoln had chosen to keep developing it, there could have been a new Town Car and/or Continental (for cost sharing) built off a modification of it. But what do I know? It's dead regardless, and Lincoln is making the dubious decision to go front drive with all their sedans when the rest of the luxury car industry seems to be staying with or moving to RWD. Maybe it will work for them. We'll see.
The only part of the mustang platform that is even remotely related to the DEW98 is the floor pan and fuel tank. That's it. Everything else is new, stiffer and cheaper.
Lincoln is not going FWD with all their sedans. Only the Zephyr will be FWD - the 2 new D3 sedans will be AWD only. And I bet the Volvo/500 D3 platform cost a fraction of what the DEW98 platform would have cost, especially if you factor in the cost to convert to AWD.
And there is just as much (or as little) difference between a Camry and an ES330 as there is between a Fusion and a Zephyr. The grilles and rear ends on the zephyr and fusion are totally different. The Camry/ES330 are almost identical.
I have to disagree with you about the Camry and ES 330. Although they share a platform and lots of other things, they do not share a single body panel in common. They even have different versions of what is essentially the same engine with different hp ratings. On the other hand, the Lincoln and Ford have the same windshield opening, same rear window opening, same door skins, same window glass openings, same roof, exact same engine...I could go on, but maybe you get the point. It is little more than badge engineering, which was the way of doing things between strapped divisions some years ago--not now.
The grills and rear ends of the Fusion and Zephyr are different. However, every body panel is different between the Lexus and Camry and this has been so since the two were separate models back in the 80's. All I expect is that Ford make the same effort to differentiate their divisions as other companies do.
BTW, I prefer Fusion/Zephyr styling to the Toyota cars. I am merely wishing Lincoln would give us something unique--like the difference between the S-Type and the LS, or the difference between the Mazda6 and the Fusion.
That is why the Jaguar T Type has gotten its largely undeserved criticism. It started as a FWD Mondeo. What Jaguar ended up with is very different in character from a Mondeo--and arguably much better--but the fact remains that the platform is FWD with AWD added. The AWD Mercedes sedan is based on RWD, with front drive added. A Mercedes could not reasonably be converted to FWD only by disconnecting the RWD, but it could be easily converted back to RWD by disconnecting the front.