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Frontier vs Ranger - II

meredithmeredith Posts: 578
edited March 13 in Nissan
This topic is a continuation of Topic 853....

Frontier vs Ranger. Please continue these
discussions here. Thanks!

Front Porch Philosopher
SUV, Pickups, & Aftermarket and Accessories Host
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Comments

  • cncmancncman Posts: 487
    Yea, I am the first one here!!!!
  • goobagooba Posts: 391
    Right behind you.Maybe vince will not find his way here.
  • mahimahimahimahi Posts: 497
    Alright, alright, alright...I'm number 3 but i'm here too! Gooba, unfortunately the 'Skim Reader' will find this page, the instructions were short enough to skim and comprehend. LOL
  • wdoyle9752wdoyle9752 Posts: 73
    And what grade are you in? It sounds like 2nd or 3rd. Mommy wrote you a template and told you to fill in the blanks with Ranger and Frontier. Good job!
  • goobagooba Posts: 391
    vince,I guess you are as big an idiot as you come across as.
    The safety issue has not been swept under the carpet.They tested a 2000 Ranger and a 1999 Frontier.Also,they did not test the CC.
    As far as the normally aspirated engine question,you are asking the wrong people.I do not believe anybody on this board works in the upper levels of Nissan's engineering department who would be the people to answer that question.Besides,WHO CARES.
    The JD Powers results show that BOTH Nissan and Ford has some improving to do.Sure,the Ranger fared a little better than the Frontier.Just remember where ir finished and the Ranger numbers.You can't be proud of that.
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Posts: 290
    Boy! Vince is bit peeved. I would be too if I owned a Ranger that was in the shop every weekend getting the tranny fixed. Anyway, Vince, why is Ford "band-aiding" the 3.9 V8 with a supercharger? Huh? Heh!

    And remember back a few months ago - I posted the survey results where Ranger owners ranked their own trucks quote "WORSE THAN AVERAGE" Yikes! Can you believe it? The only two trucks that ranked "ABOVE AVERAGE" were Toyota and yup, Nissan. Can you imagine ranking your own truck WORSE THAN AVERAGE on a survey? LoL. That's a Ranger owner for ya!
  • wdoyle9752wdoyle9752 Posts: 73
    Obviously by Vince's logic, we are just plain stupid for buying a Frontier.

    Makes me wonder about how I don't seem to have any complaints about my truck, but Vince has to tell me how bad my truck is even though he doesn't own one. If I wanted a ranger I would have bought one. I'm glad that you don't work for Ford's marketing, because you would be one big insult to Ford. (Ex. Ford is better than Nissan, buy Ford Today!)

    Oh, and it is typical that we sweep the safety issues under the carpet, which did not even occur. You can't even address one issue we bring up to you. You just respond with....

    "Ford has more torque than nissan, look at this site to see the specs. LOL. I am cool, look at me, I am the only Ranger owner who rates his truck perfect above everything else."

    How about answering the supercharge question for the ford V8. Is it a bandaid? I'm sure you will answer no. Everytime the blueoval news site is brought up, you just ignore it, because it shows all the crap that goes on at Ford. Show a site that does the same for Nissan in a 5th of the volume in one place! I'm sure if we had a Ranger vs F150, you would do just the same that you did here. I guess we should just give up, you are just so big bad and powerful and always have to be the arrogant Mr Right.
  • goobagooba Posts: 391
    vince,this is an excerpt from an article about Ford sales and the Rangepart I put here.You will notice 2 things here.1)The 3.0L V6 is the POPULAR powerplant.In your words the consumer rules.They want the 3.0L.2)You should pay attention to the savings discount packages.The financing of a Ford vehicle has more bearing then the quality of the vehicle.I personally know of 10 people over the past year who filed bankruptcy and this year and wanted to buy a new car.Four of them went car hunting within 60 days of their final ruling ALL of the dealerships could not get them financed except for Ford.Ford financed the vehicles and gave them the low rate.It was not so much the vehicle that drew them it was the financing.

    Ranger – Popular four wheel drive supercab model with the 3.0L V6, accompanied with huge package savings discounts and terrific Ford Credit – Red Carpet Lease programs, have left many dealers bone dry. The Ranger has been America's top selling compact truck for 13 years in a row.
  • goobagooba Posts: 391
    I just thought of something vince.Are you stuck on this hp/torque issue because YOUR PERSONAL Ranger has less hp then the Frontier even though it is a bigger engine?
  • mahimahimahimahi Posts: 497
    Hey Sport,

    Why don't you look at Edmunds used truck values and see how the two trucks(Frontier and Ranger)compare in value. I know, I know... don't tell us if equiped the same...the frontier is HIGHER in value, Now who's laughing! hahaha. Oh one more thing I called my insurance agent and you're right there is a difference...the ranger was higher $15 more for every six months! You should do better research. Here let me put in "skim read" form:

    Vince, compare ranger(XLT 1999)to lowest xe 1987 Nissan Hardbody compare values, brag to everyone ranger values, insurance rates higher for ranger because they must be worth more-higher theft because everybody wants one, don't read posted sources all the way through but, use them as proof or evedience to show unclear point. Ford rules and so does the comsumer even if they hate their ranger.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Posts: 1,102
    If you consider the 3.9L V8 to be "weak", then why is does it produce more power than ANY of Nissan's powerplant offerings?


    Ford 3.9L V8 252hp 267ft/lbs

    Nissan 3.5 V6 250hp 240ft/lbs


    Just wondering...

    The 3.5L V6 offered in the Pathfinder is the most powerful of Nissan's engines here in North America. And, I don't see other countries getting beefier pushers with us power hungries here in the states.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Posts: 1,102
    I'll tell you exactly why Nissan is putting a supercharger on the 3.3L V6.

    (1) They've fallen far behind their competitors in power.

    (2) They need a competitive offering even if most people buy less powerful offerings anyways. Your flagship can't be a dingy.

    (3) They're too strapped for cash to put the 3.5L V6 in the Frontier with all of the additional R&D, production capacity, and higher costs.

    (4) The [temporary] solution is to slap on a supercharger. Much less R&D. No worries about production capacity. They can now keep up with the bunch.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Anyone who has had Psych 101 knows people name call when they have been proven WRONG!! I have shown you the Ranger rates higher at JD Powers, The RAnger rates better in crash tests, The RAnger rates better on performance!! LOL.
    I got hammered for bringing in other engines, I wonder why noone is saying anyting to cygnusx??
    I am staying with Ranger vs Frontier, not Pathfinder or Maxima, or .....
    Sorry folks your bubble has been officially burst. Enjoy your underpowered, severly under torqued, high tech 3.3! LOL..... Ranger stomps Frontier!!
  • mahimahimahimahi Posts: 497
    cthompson21,

    Let's talk about behind the competition: Where's the four door ranger? Current 4.0L putting out 160hp? Ranger frame construction/design? You're right nissan is far, far behind the competition when it comes to consumer complaints! If anything, I think that the supercharger(temporary as it may be) is a fad item just like that useless step-side bed that ford and chevy put on their compacts. And as for the competition I've owned a '94 s-10 and had to replace that auto that was mated to the awe mighty of small truck engines and I can't tell you how many times I've been stranded in the woods in friends rangers & bronco II's- mostly due to tranny failures. But anyway, the comp. can have all the power they want but if it isn't dependable it ain't worth a @#*& ! But not to worry since you work for Nissan(R&D dept. I'm sure, since you drive the competition's product)you guys already know that many of us are ecstatic with what you guys have built and we thank you :).

    I didn't want to bring this up but I feel I must. This Sunday my joke of an engine with it's meager little 170hp and sputtering, struggling 200ft lbs. of torque coincidentally had to hook to a 1998 Ranger with a.... that's right a 4.0L! He needed help pulling his boat out of the water. I hooked to his boat and pulled his boat out. I won't go into long boring details here but my point is...awe I don't have to spell it out I'm sure you get it.


    Ok, I'm sure by now you think that things weren't equal as to why he couldn't pull it out but, I could right?
  • mahimahimahimahi Posts: 497
    It didn't stomp my crew cab this weekend...but that's ok the owner was cool and we shared our own war stories after I got HIS boat out! I actually told him about this particular web page and he laughed. I told him that the guys on this page weren't going to believe this! But I didn't rag on him because as he knows(because I told him) I'd been there with a S-10. As you might think i didn't do it because it was a ranger and I could come on here and boast or because it was a Ranger...I did it because there was a fellow truck owner, a person in need of help who was with his two little girls.
  • goobagooba Posts: 391
    I think you misunderstood the question.vince asked:
    Why can't Nissan make a normally aspirated 3.3 to
    compete with Ford/Toyota/Chevy?
    That is a different qestion then why are they putting a supercharger their engine.Did it ever occur that maybe it might have something to do with marketing the vehicle?Offering a factory supercharger rings of days gone by.The Gt350 Shelby's and more recently the Thunderbird Supercoupe on their 3.8L V6.It may not be ALL power related.The T bird is a good example of that.
    vince I say again YOUR PERSONAL Ranger is underpowered.You have less hp than my Frontier.
    AGAIN YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE THE QUESTIONS ASKED.Why is that.Are they too difficult for you to understand?
    You said that JD powers rated the Ranger higher.That is correct,but it was not that much higher and again you can't be that proud of the rating.The performance aspect you got from Edmunds.If you read a little further in their site,those ratings are SUBJECTIVE,not OBJECTIVE.It is based on the opinions of people who have no stake in the ratings.They have a base criteria,and we do not know their motivations for their ratings.
    This last post from you vince shows that you are all mouth with no substance nor idea on what you are talking about.By ignoring the questions and comments you just show your ignorance on the subject or that your position is indefensible when confronted with contradicting facts or substance on the other side of the debate.
  • mahimahimahimahi Posts: 497
    Sorry, I have to write something else here. Back in 1994 I owned a 1981 Toyota 4X4 long bed SR5 that I had restored and added a 3" suspension kit and 33" super swampers. Until this vehicle my favorite vehicle good truck certainly not the most powerful thing ever but, nonetheless a good truck. Anyway my boss at the time leased a brand new 1995 xe 4x4 patfinder. Totally stock he wanted to go through some of the places that my friends and I used to go when we went off roading(mudding... in Fl. it's the only offroad we have). I thought this pittiful excuse for a 4-wheel vehicle won't last 60 ft where we go, he doesn't have the clearance, the tread, for that matter he doesn't have a real truck or even any real offroad driving experience. So one day I agreed to take him, I thought it would be funny to watch him sink his truck and make him get out in the mud to hook the two trucks together. He was to follow me, deep rutts, edge of swamps and mud pits. I know its hard to understand especially without being there but, it was some bad stuff trust me. Still to this day I can't believe the stuff we went through and that damn little gold pathfinder right behind me the whole 7 hrs we were out there. I even went through the holes first and spun my tires in the middle trying to make it harder for him. Never one stick, unbelievable. So when somebody says this "truck stomps that truck" I always remember the little no ground clearance gold pathfinder that followed me that day.
  • wdoyle9752wdoyle9752 Posts: 73
    Vince doesn't care, he still has more torque
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Posts: 290
    Sthompson, why does the weak Ford V8 produce only a measley 2 more HP than the Nissan 3.3 V6? Shouldn't a V8 with a supercharger have *a lot* more kick-in-the-pants than that??? That's why it is a weak engine. And why is Fordb bandaiding it with a supercharger????? I thought superchargers were only for weak Nissans? Basically what I'm pointing out in all of this nonsense is that Ford seems to need this "bandaid" just as badly as anybody. They're no better than anybody else is they have to resort to "bandaiding" the weak 3.9 V8.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Posts: 1,102
    The 4 door ranger is a Sport Trac. Ford can sell a Sport Trac at a higher price than a club cab Ranger. Aside from some styling cues, they are essentially the same vehicle. (Ford did build a prototype 4dr Ranger if you're wondering). Simple mathematics, higher selling price = more profit. BTW, I wouldn't want either.

    The current 4.0 is better suited to truck applications than the 3.3 currently offered from Nissan. The cammer 4L will be the same when you compare it to SC 3.3 when they both arrive this summer. Plus, you won't have to worry about the added stress of a forced induction system accelerating engine wear and tear. Has Nissan used a supercharger in a truck application before?

    Frame/construction design? Hmmm... I'm not quite sure what you mean. Body on frame construction is a necessity for ANY truck. Unit-body construction is not strong enough in truck applications and will bend and flex like Jell-O when used to haul, tow, and off-road.

    If I had a nickel for all of the posts that sound like "my friend's so and so is always in the shop and breaking down, but my so and so has had no problems for the last 625,000 miles and will last forever"... I see them on every board for every make.

    Also, I don't work for Nissan R&D. But, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Nissan's motives. All you need is a little bit of common sense.




    As for your friend with the boat, he either

    (1) has a huge boat and needs a bigger truck with V8 power

    (2) needs 4wd or a LSD as he isn't getting the traction he needs on a slippery boat ramp

    Why didn't you just offer to pull it out for him?



    As for step/flare-sides, they're styling cues like the fins of the '50s and the spoilers seen today. If you like them, you buy them. If you don't like them, you don't buy them. I don't quite see what's your beef here. Are you upset that Ford (and Chevy) are offering their prospective buyers different choices?
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Posts: 1,102
    Please read more carefully.

    The 3.9L V8 is NOT supercharged. In naturally aspirated form, it produces more power than Nissan's most powerful engine offering, which is the 3.5L V6 in the Pathfinder.

    You consider an engine that produces more power than ANY current engine offering from Nissan to be "weak"?



    Ford is also adding the supercharger to keep up with the competition, which is the likes of the 5-Series BMW, GS 300/400, A6, S-Type, etc... All of the competitors to the LS (the home of the 3.9L V8) have 300hp V8 offerings.

    Why incur added expenses in R&D, production, and EPA certification to put one of Ford's more powerful V8s in the LS, when you can just pull the supercharger out of the Jaguar parts bin? The 3.9L V8 is closely related to the V8s offered in the Jags.
  • mahimahimahimahi Posts: 497
    ct,

    I did pull his boat out, because he couldn't. Let me explain. On some ramps they have a lip at the end so you don't back down too far. Well this guy backed over that lip and he has a tandem axle trailer so this lip of concrete got wedged between the axles. His 4-wheel drive would not work for whatever reason it wasn't engaging. So we unhooked his truck and hooked mine to the trailer and I pulled it out no problem in two wheel drive!

    As for my friend's rangers I only brought those up because I was THERE this wasn't hearsay.

    Talking about design, I believe it was cncman that brought it up, look under truck. C-channel or tube frame? I never mentioned uni-body.

    That's right the step-side is styling... a fad. Something for appeal to set the trucks apart from the norm. Here I was relating the supercharger in that I see it for those guys that add performance stuff to their trucks like k&n air filters, exhausts, manifolds and so on kind of a fad or trend. In my opinion, I like the supercharger better than turbo no matter who makes it, instant power, no lag. I don't think that Nissan or anybody else for that matter has ever put a supercharger in their compact trucks, but then again Nissan is kind of known for doing 'firsts' in the compact truck arena.
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Posts: 290
    CThompson,

    please read more carefully:

    Ford Motor Company IS ADDING A SUPERCHARGER TO THE 3.9 V8.

    Why can't Ford build a normally aspirated V8? Why are they going to "bandaid" it with a supercharger?
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Posts: 1,102
    OK. Listen very carefully.


    In NATURALLY ASPIRATED form (this means no supercharger or turbo), Ford's 3.9L V8 produces more power, both in torque and horsepower, than ANY single engine that Nissan currently produces.

    You consider this to be a "weak" engine.

    Assuming that you drive a 3.3L Frontier. Exactly how "weak" would you consider your engine with 82 less horsepower and 67ft/lbs of torque?


    To answer your question, Ford can and does build many naturally aspirated V8's. How about the just the 3 different naturally aspirated V8s offered in the Mustang alone? What about the F-Series trucks or Lincoln's?

    If you're wondering why they're supercharging the 3.9L V8 offered in the LS, check out post #23. It seems that you've skipped right over it as you keep asking the same questions.

    BTW, it seems that you can't/won't answer questions posed to you. I wonder why...
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Posts: 1,102
    First does not always mean best. Just first.

    It sounds more as if the guy didn't know how to operate his truck & trailer. It's a good thing you happened along or else his truck would probably be in the drink.

    I'm not sure what type of frame construction my truck has. It sounded as if you were talking about frame vs. unibody. I'm not really sure of the merits of c-channel vs tube frame construction.

    Yes, yes, we've all heard the break-down stories. Most of my friends and family drive "domestic" vehicles. There have been a couple that had some problems, but the vast majority have been extremely reliable. My own personal experience shows quite a different tale than all of the stories posted to these boards by "import" owners.

    BTW, I'm not knocking "imports" or any other vehicle. I buy whatever gives me the best value. Well, at least until I can save up for that M5 :oD
  • cygnusx1cygnusx1 Posts: 290
    Oh, I see. So your reasoning in post #23 is ok for Ford, but not applicable to Nissan?

    In it's "naturally aspirated form" the 3.9 V8 produces more hp tourque than the Nissan 3.3 V6. Ok. So then WHY is it being bandaided? No one can answer this? So I'll go ahead and answer it and say maybe it's because it's a weak engine and Ford feels in needs more ooomph. I mean, why else? After all that's why Nissan is "bandaiding" their 3.3, right?

    Also, the main reason you give seems highly subjective to me. "To compete with..." is a stab in the dark. I think it has more to do with meeting green standards than anything else. But never the less, what you're saying is that it's ok for Ford to add a supercharger (just because they're Ford), but all of a sudden when Nissan adds one it's a "bandaid" fix to a weak engine? Please.

    And yes, if a 3.9 V8 can only slightly out perform a 3.3 V6 - I'd say it's a weak engine. Just my .02.
  • mahimahimahimahi Posts: 497
    cthompson21,

    If my numbers are right you're saying that the 3.9L naturally puts out 252hp and 267 ft/lbs of torque right? If so, how can you possibly make the statement:
    "Ford's 3.9L V8 produces more power, both in torque and horsepower, than ANY single engine that Nissan currently produces."?

    Because the 4.1L V-8 that Nissan produces for the Infinity Q 45 produces 266hp and 278 ft/lbs of torque. This engine is currently produced, so I don't know how you can say this.
  • mahimahimahimahi Posts: 497
    You're right first doesn't mean the best, but that was my rebuttal to Nissan catching up to the competition. This brings me to a point, think about all of the body styles or changes that Toyota and Nissan have made through the years, just in their trucks alone. And think of the body changes that the big three have made Dodge 2, Chevy 2, ford 3(if you include the flush mounting of the headlights in was it '87 or '88). What's my point? That the Japanese constantly change their style to appeal to different times, give a fresh look...I know this is more prevalent in their cars and the big three are now starting to do the same. I like some of the innovative features that Ford has come up with their sport-trac like the waterproof seats power rear window and if memory serves me they came up with the second power port in their f-150's. I'm like you I'm not loyal to any one brand or knocking ford, I just don't agree that putting a supercharger in a truck engine is bad. Just to let you know the Sport trac is not a Ranger it's the suspension, frame design and body of the Explorer hence the name.

    I don't know what the guys story was..just that the hubs weren't engaging eventhough his 4 wheel light was on, whatever.

    I've always heard that the tube frame construction is stronger, but I didn't buy the Nissan for that reason. In fact, it wasn't even part of my buying decision. I'm with you on the uni-body, I think it has no place in truck design.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Posts: 1,102
    Are you actually taking the time to read my posts?

    First, I was talking about the 3.5L V6 offered in the Pathfinder. This engine is DIFFERENT than the 3.3L V6 offered in the Frontier.

    Second, you seem to be the one absolutely obsessed about bandaids. I never said it was a bad thing for Nissan to add a supercharger (or Ford for that matter either). I said that the 3.5L V6 out of the Pathfinder would be more desireable.

    Third, with 82 more hp and 67 more ft/lbs of torque, the 3.9L V8 will not only "slightly" outperform the 3.3L V6. It will massively outperform it. If you consider this to be a "weak" engine, then you must feel like you've got a hamster on a wheel under your hood.

    Fourth, refer to all of my prior posts for the same questions you keep asking again and again.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Posts: 1,102
    Okay, ya got me.

    I didn't even think to look at Infiniti. I about forgot they were still making cars. I never see them around these parts.

    Alright, Ford's bottom of the barrel V8 is bested by the Q's V8.

    Is that the only Nissan/Infiniti V8 available?
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