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Comments
Loren
I'm not fond of the nose really, and the rubber looks pitifully thin on the GS, but the overall shape and styling looks quite good in person. Can't wait to see what tuner applications evolve for the nose, chin and sills.
As is so often the case, it's a better looking car in person than in pics (IMO).
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Loren
I am disappointed in a few things. The options list is way too short. I would prefer a GT auto with cloth, sunroof, and Rockford Fosgate audio. But you can't get this arrangement! What is with Mitsu always assuming you want leather when you want a few other nice things? I've had leather and couldn't stand all the upkeep. Plus, the only option package is insanely expensive and too far out of my price range! PLEASE MITSU, OFFER A SUN&SOUND PACKAGE FOR THE GT!!!! I think you would discover a lot of people like this arrangement. Better yet, make the audio system standard on the GT. It would make sense since that is the top of the line model and most of the younger buyers look for good standard systems.
For those doubting thomases, the GS model should actually perform well. The 162 horse engine is very spunky, even with an automatic. It would easily outperform last year's 147 horse motor. It also amounts to a good deal when you consider everything that comes standard.
p.s. I can't wait to see what the Spyder will look like! I would love to own one of those but I hope Mitsu doesn't allow the price to go past 30k. I really hope the awesome stereo is standard on it too. One last thing: Mitsu, please please make the rear window bigger on the new Spyder! The last one was simply too tiny and made the inside so dark and claustrophobic as well as caused bad blind spots. It also wouldn't hurt to shape the bottom of the front seats so rear seat passengers can get their shoes under them.
Ditto on the back window in the spyder. I got used to it, but when anyone else would drive my car, they got really nervous with the enormous blind spot. It was very liberating to be able to have the top down. With the loaded up gt coupe retailing around $28K, I doubt they can keep a comparable spyder below $30K . Maybe?? I too am excited to see the spyder.
Will pass on the gs all the way around. Way too pricey for a 4 cylinder. If I was in the market for a 4-banger, there are plenty of other cars out there that I would look at before the eclipse gs.
Sorry, can't answer your question about the space under the front seat.
Don't drivers get annoyed when people put thier feet under there anyway? hehehe
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2005-06-23-eclipse_x.htm
Loren
The biggest and BEST news, was NO BUMP STICKERS and they are actually selling them for $1K under MSRP. I was proud of them and told them so!!!!!!!!!!!
I was just searching for some info and I stumbled here to see a lot of people that have never seen let alone driven the new Eclipse talk about how it is doomed to fail. I have owned a black GT 6-speed for a couple weeks. It is not slow. It does not handle poorly. It is not ugly. Mitsu is not going out of business. To get the car to do 0-60 under 6 seconds all you have to do is make sure TCL is off and know how to shift properly. If the Avalon is hitting that speed that fast that doesn't make the Eclipse slow. I have had a 2G and 3G car and this one handles better than the previous two. Even though it is slightly bigger then the last body, it drives a lot smaller. The interior is the best yet and the stereo can't be beat. I'm not sure where people are coming up with the idea the Mitsu's are unreliable. I have owned 4 of them and despite driving the wheels off them I have had virtually no problems. One of the downsides of the internet is a lot of people that are misinformed get to spead that misinformation. I have worked in the auto industry for several years. The factory hold that took place in late May is a typical thing. It is a rare week that one of Chrysler's plants don't go on hold. I have spent countless hours putting Hondas up on ramps to be checked while on hold. Heads did not roll over the Eclipse hold. This is normal procedure. Mitsu is not on the brink of closing. They made some bad decisions with financing and got bit by it. They have sold off a lot of loans and have improved the cash flow. Their line-up is strong and all models have been or are being redesigned. Want a new Eclipse but don't want to pay over MSRP? Contrary to what was said here, you will not get a break or any rebate money for quite some time. Dealers in the Midwest are getting $1K to $3K over sticker and some areas are getting as much as $10K over. People are willing to pay it. Dealers in this area are not able to keep them in stock and most are unwilling to even do dealer trades. The factory is putting out 1000 units a week and that feeds the entire market. It is going to be a while before supply catches up with demand. I'm getting tired of noseprints on my windows and people following me all over to look at the car so I'm looking forward to a few more around. There are some good dealers that will sell at MSRP or below.
I feel as you do, I loved my 01 spyder gt, had no reliability issues, and got great service from my dealer (and I did not buy the car there).
Loren
While Mitsu was given a temporary reprieve with some short term financing (until they find more), it may be too little too late of their sales outlets keep closing up. So, the question here in the U.S., will the Eclipse (assuming it will sell well) tide them over until they can bring more new models out? Will their reputation be able to be bandaged up? Will enough dealers hold on to be able to sell Mitsus? Will Mitsu be able to lock down more long term financing and will it be enough?
Way too many questions for me to enter into one of the few dealerships still around.
Personally, I don't think they are going to be around long in the U.S. market for all the same reasons stated before.
Last I checked, Toyota didn't make TVs. GM is starting to rack up sales with their new "Employee Pricing" for everyone.
Around southwestern OH, there is 1 dealer within a 50 mile radius of me. And that one is doing poorly.
As a long time Mitsu fan, I'm just being realisitic, IMO, about this car and its impact on Mitsu USA. Mitsu as a conglomerate will be fine; no worries there, but Mitsu USA is quite another story. Paltry interim financing aside, the parent company is no longer supporting cash outlay without significant return (of which there is none) and multi-company partnerships appear to be withering faster than grapes in the Fresno sun.
Even without such considerations, the car isn't a home run in anybody's book. While the reviews are favorable, the car isn't a leader in anything, and a leader is exactly what they needed here. They won't survive on Evo sales, the Lancer is laughable, I can't remember the last time I saw a Galant that wasn't a rental and nobody wants a Montero.
Having owned Mitsus, I'll bet it's a pleasure to drive (in GT trim), and I think they'll sell it, but no where near the numbers they need, and there will be incentives without doubt. No way they'll lure Average Joe to the lots without a "sale" sign. So I'll stand by my earlier advice not to pay any mark up on this thing. Those stickers will disappear in short order, and a handful of suckers will be left even more upside down on their financing the the dolts who took the old 0/0/0 and didn't pay anything for a year!
If you want one now, and I mean right now, for Lord's sake, lease it!
BTW, Ford has something they call Mustang that I hear is selling at premiums...
;-]
Whatever happened? I remember when they had AWD Turbo Galants and Eclipses that were terrors. EVOs won't sell in enough numbers to keep them afloat, nor will the Eclipse....regardless of how good they might be.
Mitsu (cars) is walking a financial tightrope with no net. Chrysler pulled theri financial support. They are life support from some short term financing. If they can't get some other good products in their portfolio within the next several months, their dealer channel will fold up.
As you say, if you absolutely have to have one of those new Eclipses, by all means, lease it. Purchasing any Mitsu product at or above MSRP right now, is financial lunacy.
First off, I don't really think there is a lot of competition between Ford & Mitsu for a 2 door GT. The Eclipse will appeal to those who want a futuristic styled FWD, younger buyers most likely. The new Mustang is practically a photocopy of the 1970 Ford & will appeal to the 40 -50 year old crowd who never had one in high school or they got rid of thiers way back when & now want another. Nothing wrong with that if there is a market for it but it's pretty silly to compare the 2 as "identical" vehicles competing for the same customer.
Complaints about lack of dealers? Porsche posts some of the highest profit margins in the U.S. with very few dealers yet no one complains about having to drive 30-50 miles to get to a dealership. I have been to several Mitsubishi dealerships in the last 15 years since I purchased my first Galant & without exception they have been 1st class establishments. Of course there are exceptions & legitimate complaints to be sure but slamming all Mitsu dealers as crooked & lousy while hiding behind a message board is a sure sign that perhaps it's time to remember the lessons learned in Mr Browns 9th grade shop class & get a hobby.
About this "daimler chrysler dropping Mitsubishi" thing. dc with thier pick of Pierre Gagnon as CEO with his 0-0-0 policy is what ticked off so many people against Mitsu in the 1st place. Of course, it's easy to get a deadbeat angry at you, just tell him/her it's time to pay the bills. Unfortunately, thanks to Finnbarr, Mitsubishi will have to allow a pick up truck from dc to carry thier name (for now) & poor forward thinking is the only reason Mitsu didn't market one of thier own designs that won the Paris- Dakar Rally. How many people who post here even know what the Paris-Dakar race even is, much less how Mitsubishi has constantly posted more wins in it then any other manufacturer in history. dc is planning to build the... what? The neon? The caliber? The stratus? All on Mitsubishi platforms they got from Mitsu. I don't know of any dc platforms that Mitsubishi wants. Even the new 4 cyl engines for chrysler from GEMA is technology from Hyundai & Mitsubishi & recently Mitsubishi Heavy (who pretty much runs MMC now) cut dc out of technology sharing regarding fuel cell research. Go to Lima, Peru or Cairo, Egypt or Upchuck, Russia & see who has more cars, trucks & vans parked in the street. Mitsubishi or dc? I'm not going to excuse the Japanese chiefs at Mitsu who lied about recalls out of some poor misguided sense of honor but it's a fact that they are now paying the price for thier duplicity with loss of benefits, monetary compensation & even jail time. Who in the Ford family paid the price for all those Pintos that blew up.
As an aside, I sure was sorry to hear that Bricklin booted Pierre Gagnon out of Visionary Motors LTD. From what I've heard about Malcolm in the Canadian press, him & Pierre would have made a really, ummm...great team.
I also am in the process of driving the wheels off a few Mitsu's that I own. It has been my experience that if you take a reasonable amount of time to maintain them properly they will very rarely let you down. That's true of most Japanese cars IMHO. I have owned GMs & Fords also but they just seem to have a shorter life span. I have never owned a European car ( although I'd like to try a Peugeot.)
Well Kamatz, kudos again on a most intelligent post. I'm sure all the earnest Mitsu bashers out there can't wait to talk about the latest gossip regarding how simply awful those pesky Mitsubishis are, especially those crummy Lancer Evolutions with that archaic design technology. How DO they keep getting put on those top 10 lists all the time?
Mitsubishi products are not in the same class as Porsche, and I
see no reason for people to seek out their product by driving miles
and miles. A Porsche is usually a richman's second or third car for
fun. Miracles do happen, so it is possible dealerships hold or
multiply. Just don't like the odds of that happening. This doesn't
make the car good, bad or anything in-between, until you consider
the whole package, as in service, parts, and resale.
Loren
I'd say any vehicle made today, if properly maintained, will be relatively trouble free.
What's at issue here is Mitus's dire financial condition here in North America with their automobile division. Mitsu also does not have vaible products in the volume market of the car biz....that is sedans, small cars and trucks.
If they are to survive, they will need to put a sedan on the market than can compete well against some top notch competition in the Accord, Camry, Chrysler 300, etc hotly contested market.
Even in the truck market, where GM is wiping up with their employee price program, Mitsu doesn't have anything that can compete with the top line trucks/SUVs like F150s, 4 Runners, GMC, even the Honda Pilot and Ridgeline.
EVO and Eclipse alone won't pull them out of this financial mess.
Mitus is hanging by a very thin financial thread. The only way out is to close up shop or to quickly bring out some world class sedans, SUVs and/or trucks. Mediocre offerings in any of these segments will doom them....as we are seeing today.
I've yet to hear or see anything they've got on the drawing board that will pull their butts out of the fire.
That said, Mitsubishi, for better or worse, has always hung its hat on the performance hook. That certainly poses a risk in a constantly shifting business & their success in so many areas of motorsports has earned them a lot of rancor from a great many people. Also, they are paying a huge price for poor management, not just in the U.S. but also in the world. To accurately predict the demise of a global company though, you have to look at a very big picture. Admittedly I myself am unable to do this with any degree of certainty but I will say that Mitsubishi is still heavily involved in worldwide racing competition, The Mitsu (bring it here) Colt recently won the prestigious (but goofy sounding) Golden Steering Wheel Award in Europe, the Lancer won Car of the Year Award in its class in Russia, Mitsubishis E-Boost concept vehicle last week was awarded the 2005 IDEA (Industrial Design Excellence Award) by the Industrial Design Society of America, no small feat. Lastly, with oil prices hovering at $60.00 a barrel do people still want to sneer at a company designing electric cars for the inner-city environment?
So... While the picture looks grim indeed at least Mitsu is still fighting. I worked for Rich Gilligan for 5 years & he is a very solid guy who puts everything he has into his job, which he knows pretty well. It's a tough environment right now with the GM fire sale going on & the only way Toyota is going to slow down is if potential future drivers decide they may want something just a little different parked in their driveway then the 1001 other camrys currently in the local hood. Is this camry thing Orwellian, or what?
Finally, I don't expect Mitsu to come out tomorrow with a car that flies on sugarwater & sales aren't going to take off for the moon either but the product they put out is a pretty good value if you respect the opinions of most automotive experts.
You just won't find that many experts at the local autoblog.com.
Right now GM is trying to make cars which go head to head with Toyota and Honda, and having the same results, as in little or no profits. Just like Mitsubishi, they need to make fewer cars and trucks, but make them unlike, and more desirable than the rest. If the best Mitsubishi can do sales wise is the New Eclipse, there ya go! Make these super looking cars, which dazzle the eye, yet cost less than say a Porsche. Reliable and boring is being made every day, and sold every minute of the day under well established names, like Toyota, so IF say Mitsubishi, or GM makes a car just as good, so what, it still has to sell for less, and thus no profit. Look, the New Stang, by Ford is selling well because there is not other car like it. Without independant suspension, only fair gas mileage, and such, technically it may not be as good as say brand X or the Eclipse, but who cares - it sells - it is different, and not a boring Solara, or is that wierd looking Solara. Personally, it is a bit too retro ( replica car ), though not a bad looking car. It too, seems to be gaining weight and size, but that is not the point. Perfect for many, the New Stang or older Mustang, which may be better, is something that Honda and Toyota do not have. Mitsu can make a wonderful car to compete against the Camry, but then again so does every other car manufacturer in the World - just about
What sells, and for a profit is something like the Magnum, or PT = different.
Loren
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I know that doesn't lessen your inconvenience though, and if I hear any news of your specific problem I'll make a post if it can be helpful.
I have the same basic 4 cyl & auto transmission although it's in an 04 Outlander. My wife doesn't use the manual mode but I like it a lot in the city as I practically never have to touch the brakes.
Meanwhile, there's another discussion in News & Views that touches on Mitsu's difficulties: You Are the Mitsubishi Marketing Manager.
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I noticed a news item this AM about Pontiac offering a blown version of the Solstice. Now, before we go off half-cocked about how that's not direct competition, I think it embodies where more of the market is headed, and certainly based on price point and number of doors, it's competition in one form.
With highly anticipated performers like the Solstice (that also look sumptuous) hitting the market at near $20K price points, it will be harder to achieve and maintain broad based appeal with a heavy FWD coupe. Basically the demographic aged dramatically with the 2000 Eclipse, and this one, while apparently more refined and certainly better looking, pushes even further in that direction. Unfortunately, it's verging on being a modern iteration of the old "personal luxury coupe", a la those last versions of the old Fox-based (IIRC) Cougars or the old Monte Carlo, or even the newer Sebring and Stratus coupes.
I believe my old favorite Eclipse is about to be left behind as it evolves into a car away from which the market is evolving.
In the performance coupe division you've got....
(high teens price)
--'06 Civic Si (new platform and design)
--Acura RSX
--Scion Tc
--MiniCopper
...to name a few...
(mid-high $20s price)
--350z
--RX8 (rotary)
--Mustang (GT with a V8)
...to name a few....
Any of the above cars either perform better or costs less or are better design studies.....in many cases all the above. Plus, all the above have better credentials from a corporate standpoint, both in absolute terms and/or in reputation.
So, the Eclipse may be a case of too little too late for Mitsubishi....even if it were a "homerun". Most believe it's good, but not great. Great is what Mitsubishi needs, across their entire model line.
I do think a homerun could've helped, if not cured all. Just look at what the 300C did for Chrysler, and the PT before it. Certainly a big hit can keep you in the game while you groom your prospects.
It'll be interesting to see what the sales figures are for July. Prior to release they were clearing old units at about 1200-1500 a month on steep discounts...
My other/practical car is a Nissan 240SX 1993 which I LOVE. I've had it this long because I've never had any problems with it and I've never found a car I liked as much.
That being said...age is catching up with 'er and while I love the convertible BMW for long trips and "fun" I need a more practical/affordable everyday car now.
I assumed I'd look at Mitsu GS...but then Scion TC caught my eye and interest and that is where I stand now. Honestly I don't know which way to go. I did not want to get the first year TC 2005 nor did I like the Mitsu GS 2005 so now the 2006's are here.
A couple of questions I hope folks can answer here for me. I am very short...and in test drives of Eclipse's / Spyders before..I noticed a huge problem with lack of visibility out of the rear window. Used to be because of that tall spoiler..not it looks like it still may be a problem because of two things..one the driver's seat is not height adjustable (TC it is) AND the window is almost flat to the roof line instead of a true rear window..at least it looks that way. Would LOVE to hear from other SHORT women re: the 2006 GS.
Also...one thing about the Mitsu I noticed was it was not a tight turning car..by that I mean I'm used to being able to do full swing turns into opposite parking spots in my 240SX. Sure enough I looked and the Mitsu's have a very wide turning radius.
And there is cost. Priced with all I want (yes I would spring for the two GS packages and several of the comparable options on the TC as well) I would spend about three grand more for the GS vs TC I think. I'd have a (hopeful) incredible stereo system that I can't get in TC for that and a few other "goodies" but I can't find three grand worth ya know?
As far as dealers go...I have also in SO CA. There aren't that many Scion support Toyota dealers at first glance either so it would be about the same. And NOT to go off topic but it DOES concern me...their future...only because I am one who has ALWAYS strictly adhered to scheduled maintenance at dealers. As I said my 13 year old 240SX has had NOTHING major go wrong...brakes and I think one hose.
The other concern is ROOM. The TC is a fully operational hatchback..like my 240SX. I assume the 2006 GS is not...it has a trunk right? I won't have passengers that often..but the Mitsu has less room than my 240SX, especially leg room and far less than TC for rear passengers. AND I wonder after adding the stereo component for the upgrade in the trunk...also gonna cut way down on space right? THIS is why I need a practical car LOL...obviously a Z3 has NO ROOM for anything but fun.
So..would appreciate any input on the above..specifically on the 2006 GS Automatic. Thanks.
Loren
(high teens price)
--'06 Civic Si (new platform and design)
--Acura RSX
--Scion Tc
--MiniCopper
...to name a few...
(mid-high $20s price)
--350z
--RX8 (rotary)
--Mustang (GT with a V8)
...to name a few....
The cars you've mentioned are very different to Eclipse by purpose and looks. Eclipse has advantages over any of them in certain areas - in looks in/out, performance, comfort and it's new. I don't like Eclipse all that much, but neither I like any of those cars you've mentioned for a lot of reasons.
You also forget the fact that at least half of buyers are women. They have different preferences than hardcore racing people and certainly appreciate cars that looks like that.
Also you forget that vast majority of buyers are ignorant and don't spend days on automobile forums. There are uglier and slower cars that still sell pretty well thanks to them.
I think Eclipse has the same chances for nice sales as every other make/model.
Also you forget that vast majority of buyers are ignorant and don't spend days on automobile forums. There are uglier and slower cars that still sell pretty well thanks to them."
Wow.
That almost sounds like you're saying potential success for the Eclipse will hinge on ignorant women who don't know much about cars but only appreciate cars with certain looks. :surprise:
Excuse me while I go get my flameproof suit on....... :P
So, the Acura RSX, Scion Tc, et al are different in purpose to the Eclipse? Ummm....they all are coupes....they have sprightly engines. Going the 6 cyl route.....again, the 350Z is a 6 cyl sports coupe (RX8 is a bit of a different animal with the rotary, but still a sports car.
No doubt, they all look different (I should hope so, they come from different manufacturers with different design studios). No surprise, no was one expected.
I don't know that the Eclipse would have any advantages over the others if compared "like for like" vehicles.
So, what we have here is a Mitsu coupe that's relatively new, not in concept, but certainly by design.....that you say appeals mainly to women, who don't like hardcore racing. OK, but you believe that there are other people who think other cars are uglier and perhaps slower, but they will still sell well. That's quite the demographic!!!!! :confuse:
In a perfect world, where everything is equal, I'd agree with you that the Eclipse had the same chance for success as every other make/model. Fact is, there are many different manufacturers, that make many different brands and many different models for all different types of users for all different types of reasons.
Although, I've never driven a new Eclipse, being a car fanatic, for a long time, I can tell you that it's probably about middle of the pack in the sports coupe world as far as appeal. Those that like Eclipses, in general, will like this one. I don't see anyone beating down Mitsu's doors coming from a Celica, Prelude, Mustang, GM F-bodied cars, or any other sports coupe for that matter.
There are just way too many good looking sports coupes from manufacturers that..
A) have a better reputation
put out a better product
C) have better performing vehicles
D) have similar vehicles that costs less
E) have vehicles that are better looking
F) aren't in the dire financial straigts Mitsubishi is in
G) All the above
You are right...nothing will probably ever live up to my 240SX. I cannot understand why Nissan discontinued it. Before that I owned a 310GX, then a B210 and before that a VW bug.
I'm gonna agree with nuieve on one thing though: I think they'll get some sales out of this unit. I'll disagree at the same time, however, in that I don't think they'll be nice sales at all. I think they'll end up being sales on incentives, and ultimately the margins and the overall volume will hurt the company and the dealers. There is nothing substantial enough here to really hang a hat on.
BTW, nuieve's also right about the mostly ignorant public, IMO. Look how many Cavaliers and Sunfires have been sold over the years...
;-]
Loren
Don't care about snow...never see it here in SO CA LOL. The Mitsu seems to take a huge effort to turn and I do not like the WIDE turning radius either.
The offers I get on the 240SX even now are amazing considering the car is 13 years old. Need to replace the windshield and repair one hole in the seat cover. Other than that it looks great...scratches aside here and there. I may just keep it FOREVER.
Thanks for the input..hoping to see it continue...I truly don't know what to do. WHY OH WHY did Nissan quit making the hatchback 240SX. It was indeed the best combo of sporty handling, looks, features, storage space and most importantly reliability.
I autox'd the previous gen of that car for a bit....the 200sx.
I've got an '05 Mustang GT. It's quite the performer and a lot different than the previous generations (in a good way).
The last Eclipses I saw racing were the AWD Turbo versions. Don't see many of the most recent or current Eclipses at the track.