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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Stability control, ABS, airbags/curtains... all standard on the TCH.
http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroadtests/11035/short-take-review-2007-toyota-c- amry-hybrid.html
~alpha
Azera is a better deal than either Accord V6 or Camry V6.
Azera might compete in the top end of this class on a price basis, but it is considered a large car, not a mid size.
To you, anyway. Some people value economy and acceleration over size, and are willing to pay for it. (22MPG vs 19MPG and 0-60 about a sec. quicker in the Camry). This isn't my particular view, but I'm playing devil's advocate.
By the way, you want to know how good a car is, ask a mechanic. My mechanic says Hyundai's are crap and he had one on his lift and showed me a part of the steering system that had to be replaced. He said it was junk. he also noted that the customer refused to bring it to Hyndai to have it replaced so they came to him and paid him even though it was under warranty.
What car did he recommend? The Chevy Impala!
2007 BMW 530i - 19/27 mpg; 0-60 mph 6.7s
2007 Camry V6 - 22/31 mpg; 0-60 mph 6.5s
I don't think Hyundais are crap, but I'd never buy one. But I like the Impala, but would never buy one either. No brainer - buy Hondas.
While in the minority, some people continue to call Hyundais crap because they ignore facts and reality. If anyone is still skeptical about Hyundais, then sorry to say but you are living in the past. Given Hyundai's current models and upcoming onslaught, they made a believer out of me.
On the other hand. You have to admit that there are a lot of Believe-Or-Be-Beaten Hyundai loyalists. Many times when people shoot for the underdog they are more vocal in expressing their satisfaction in their purchase. If you buy a Camry and it is bullet proof... well that is what it is expected and supposed to do anyway. Very few would be so enthused and astounded by it, especially at the price they paid for it. You've got to admit that that does have an influence on these ratings. Same thing with the Milan. Some people gave Mercury a try and seeing that Mercury delivered are estatic about it.
Hertz replaced the sonata with a G6 GTP. It's loaded, priced around 28 or 29 grand new. This is a $28K car? I've driven it about a mile, and miss the Sonata.
~alpha
Though I do not like Hondas. I am with you in spirit, until the Hyundai elite find a way to track my IP and get to my house. Hondas are also great cars. My brother owns a top line Accord that I think is basically a luxury vehicle (he has extra bird's eye maple wood trim kit, sweet). I wouldn't buy one because the design doesn't do it for me and they don't offer a manu-shift but I can't fault anyone for buying one. Let me put it this way. When my brother's old Accord after 170K miles of abuse was stolen, I was the one to tell him he owed Honda another buy.
I know Enterprise rents Mazda6's or used to. I don't see many on the lots any more as I think Mazda has reduced the 6's fleet numbers. If you can get your hands on one, I say get it and have fun. Someone once posted that Mazda's tagline should be the relentless pursuit of fun. I rented a 6 and now there is one in my driveway. The good thing about renting often is you get to experience different cars.
Hertz has a few MZ6 rentals. I had a HB in either March or Feb, but it was elderly among rental fleet models, in the 30,000 mile range, so maybe you're right about Mazda reducing rentals. Still felt fairly solid though. I don't think I'd ever buy the MZ6 because the 3 is cheaper, just as fun, not that much smaller inside, gets better mileage, has better resale, etc. I don't rent from Enterprise because the man has a contract with Hertz and Avis, so they are our 'preferred' agents.
~alpha
If these "new" Hyundais are still on the road in good shape in 5 or 7 years I may then consider one..but till then I will stick with Honda/Acura.
I don't see that many Toyota's from 1998 when compared to new Toyota's. I don't exactly know where the older cars go (used car lot's or junk yards) but there seems to be loads of new cars in Los Angeles but the 5+ year old cars just seems to disappear.
I believe Hyundai's started drastically improving their quality from 2000-2004. Hyundai's of the 80's and early 90's were basically junk. I just know that my 2005 Hyundai Elantra is the best car I've had thus far (including Honda).
We'll all just have to wait I guess.
As for the G6, I drove a loaded one from Hertz recently and liked the tan perforated leather in the car. That was it as far as likes. The car drove and handled without any precision, nowhere like a Mazda6 or even an Accord or Sonata. I wouldn't buy one for half that $28k. I have driven several Mazda6's from Hertz but it has been awhile, so maybe they are buying more Sonatas now since the price is lower, there is more room for passengers etc.
From talking to other Sonata owners, I think you have a bad read on us.
I don't think the average Hyundai owner is any sort of "loyalist" or "fanboy". I think Sonata owners are pragmatic about cars, and simply want the most quality and features for their hard-earned dollars. I don't think Sonata owners are in awe of badges like many other owners. Personally, if I could trade my 06 Sonata even for an identically equipped Accord or Camry, I would. Fusion or Mazda6... no, but very close.
Yes, I root for the underdog. But the underdog here is not Hyundai, it's me.
I don't know that I would take an Accord over an equally-equipped Sonata. The Accord's ride is a bit too hard for my taste (lots of rough roads where I live and getting worse per a recent study). I like the airy interior of the Sonata also. A Camry? Maybe, but I haven't driven the 2007 Camry yet. I wouldn't take a 2006 Camry over the Sonata. I might take a Mazda6 5-door over the Sonata because the 5-door is more versatile and handles better, but I'm not sure those attributes are worth the extra bucks for my needs. Thing is, all these cars are perfectly fine for family-hauling, so it's possible to shop by price unless there is some overriding requirement like needing AWD or a hatch/wagon.
Do any of you Hyundai guys have one that is older than 5 years and still running great?
Huh? You mean if you're a Hyundai loyalist you get 'the treatment'? I think most cars are great these days, just some greater than others. A car is more about a bunch of features bundled together. Its gotta have SOUL. Does Hyundai have soul? I know Hondas do. Their racing heritage is inspiring.
It seems most people who visit this board think of their car as more than an appliance.
With experiences like that, do you still wonder why some people have no problem seriously considering a Sonata, which is light years aheads of that '01 Elantra?
I personally have seen quite a few older generations of Hyundais.
"I am sure the Hyundai 06 compares well to a Honda 06 or Toyota 6. I am sure they both run great now, BUT I am not sure that Hyundai will be "running" in 5 years or more..... "
Come on now, don't be so pessimistic I have a friend who has a 06 Sonata and plans to keep at least for five years, I will see you in four years (he's coming to one year ownership) and update you on the progress - I'm more than 99.99% sure if will be running by then
Reliabliity wise, the Sonata is actually one of the top cars out there. The outgoing version acheived the #3 spot (behind Malibu and Alero) in the JD Power's 05 VDS, which measures problems on 3 years old models. More, CR gave the most reliable car nod to the Sonata as well last year. As for initial quality, the Sonata (outgoing version) has consistently finished in top three, along with Malibu, Alero, Jetta - at least once notched the #1 spot. I supsect the 06+ Sonata would follow suit.
P.S. the only other car company that seems worse in reliability is VW, and IT made that list. I'm not knocking the Hyundai here, keep in mind everyone, I'm just saying that I don't think that survey does the Hyundai justice.
That said, why are all the cars in this category so refined and good? Because that's the way Mom wants them!
In addition, a new Canadian and ??????? manufacturing plant were announced.
Honda has announced a new very large American plant to employ over 1,500 workers in response to the spectacular and rising sales of Honda automobiles (Reports are that the Civic is very short in supply). Now the individual states and regions are clamoring for the best deal for Honda -- who will get the prize.
CNN and FOX also headlined the three manufacturing plants in their news reports as being needed to keep up with demand and "spectacular sales).
Joke! ... Will Honda PASSPORT name be resurrected? Since our Canadian friends will no longer be able to enter the United States (starting in 2007) with just a driver's license and an insurance card...maybe the Canadian Hondas should go back to the name --PASSPORT? ... chuckle!
backy, that's why you like the Sonata so much. You are only focused on practical needs. That is not why car buyers buy Mecredes, BMW, Audis, Lexus, Mazdas, Subarus, and too some extent Accords, Fusions, etc. They are focused on a "soul", a personality, something that makes the car more than just an assembling of its parts. The Mazda6's qualities to dance on the road, stop on a dime, corner like it was on rails, gives it something more than the practical analysis will lead show. The sweet song the Mustang V8 makes tells you there is something more than metal in front of you. There is an experience waiting to be had. You are also focused on price. For many of us we will pay for that extra attribute, maybe it is styling, maybe it is performance, maybe it is quality.
joe97, ask your friend what he feels about resale value since he bought his Sonata basically when they came out since you said he is coming up on a year of ownership shortly and he is only looking to keep the car five years.
Bingo!
bobad, this really isn't directed at you since you haven't had the "sloshing" issue at all, it was just convenient to post as a reply to your message! Thanks!
They will stay on the road 5 to 7 years because their warranty is good for 10 years.
bobad, have you ever driven a Mazda6 or a Subaru Legacy? Have you read the numerous reviews on those two cars? Have you read about the suspension set up in the Mazda6 or about the turbo in teh Legacy GT? Take it from a Mazda6 owner, you don't know what you are saying. Also, read what otehr people on this board who have driven and/or own a Mazda6. Then take a look at the Mazda6 and Subaru forum. There's too much real life experiences to the contrary. Take a hard drive in one of those cars and you'll know why Edmunds said that the Mazda6 is the only car in the group of seven that they'd make excuses to just do out and drive and that would make a smile come to their face every time they saw a curve.
"The way I see it, a car is just a way to get from point A to point B with acceptable comfort, safety, style, and economy."
Exactly. That's the way you see it. Others see it different;y and company's cater to that niche. Even Toyota recognizes that there is something to it. That's why they dropped the 268hp V6 in the Camry. That's not for you average everyday Mom driver. Also look at the VW Passat, it too has more too it than just what you can see on a spec sheet. The quality (not to be confused with reliability) is top notch, attention to detail is very high, and luxury (have you seen the pictures with the wood?)is on par with cars much costlier.
By the way for anyone that is interested you can get the Passat woodgrain in Value Edition models aftermarket. Not the stick on wood kits, the actually wood used in the upper end models from the factory.
I drove the Mazda6, not the Legacy. I did drive a Lancer EVO, however. That's a Dad car. No way I could get away with buying that little gem.
Look, I don't put a lot of stock in car magazine reviews. Those guys bow down to the advertising Gods. I have seen them play down weaknesses and highlite strengths on big advertisers over the years. Even CR is not immune to the Money Gods.
Look, you're preaching to the choir driverdm. I know the Mazda6 is a very nice car. It was my 2nd choice overall. However, it was too noisy and rode too rough for the missus.
I admit that both of us like the Mazda's exterior styling a little better than the Sonata, but we prefer the Sonata's clean interior.
All that said, the car was for my wife, not me. The car had to be smooth and quiet, or it was a no-go.
And don't tell me a peppy V6 is not for Mom! She absolutely loves it. She was afraid to pass 18 wheelers in our old Mazda, but absolutely OWN's them now. The Sonata has a great 3rd gear from 55-75mph. Zoom zoom zoom! Oops, can I say that?
Aw come on! I don't bite! I can take any criticism as long as it's fair. Things like "the so-and-so car is crap" gets sort of irritating, but I don't let it bother me.
10 years or 100k is not necessarily 10 years. Hell, it's not even 5 years in my case.
Plus how many caveats, exclusions, and prorations are in these warranties anyway? The powertrain is the last thing to go out on a car.
~alpha
Man...if you're not into the 'soul' of cars, why bother to post on these boards? Check out the posts in other forums (BMW, Acura, Subaru) and see the vitality and spirit in the people buying and DRIVING these cars. Even a CamCord or Fusion can be pushed into delivering a racing heartbeat.