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Comments
50-ish mpg up to the GWB.
55-ish mpg in 'normal' traffic across GWB
60-ish crawling down the FDR
35-40 mpg zig-zagging across Manhattan!!!
70 mpg running down Bway/7th Ave and out through the Holland Tunnel at 20-25 mpg
Watch out for overfilling though. There are two risks...serious risks, Check PriusChat.com for a more detailed explanation.
It's a well known fact that calculated individual MPG numbers can be misleading. I was always "skeptical" of posts of calculated individual tank MPGs and want to know what the previous and next tank calculated tank MPG is. This would be the case for any car, but more so for the Prius due to the fuel bladder.
There is a simple way to get around it: the MFD MPG is accurate on a tank by tank basis. These are the numbers quoted in my posts. Now I know how much you doubt anything >50 MPG as indicated in a number of your posts. Those of us who track both calculated and MFD MPG have proven that the MFD MPG > than the long term calculated MPG by ~2%. As an example since Apr'07 to now my calculated total MPG is 57.6 vs. the weighted average of the MFD MPG of 58.6. The MFD MPG is > than the calculated MPG by 1.8%. I would say that is not material. However on a tank by tank basis you can have much larger differences for the reason you correctly stated.
I think for some reason you're motivated to disprove anyone quoting MPG numbers > 50 as evidenced by many of your posts. You even went as far as doubting pictures of MFD MPG saying it doesn't show the first 5 minute bar ... and the first 5 minutes is always low.
When I've a chance I'll post my pictures of >60 MPG tanks and pictures of some of my typical commutes (and just 4 u include the first 5 minutes). If you don't want to learn or apply how to maximize the potential of the Prius you don't need to discredit those who do and please don't turn off others from trying by saying no one consistently can and achieves >50 MPG.
Gabe
Yes, I doubt the 'normal' driver will consistently get over 50mpg. I do believe it can be done if you drive on a flat road, no going up-hill.. not passing anyone, and going the speed limit. I have seen numbers on my car that show this (>50mpg).. but let's be honest, most of us don't drive on flat roads all the time, most of us do not drive at 50mph on the freeway, and there are external factors that prevent most of us from getting >50mpg.
I would like to see the 1st 5 minutes shown.. I have been told this is when the cat-converter heats up and the motor runs most of the time. Now, you may be able to shut the car off - after being run, then turn it right back on again and see a 1st 5 min graph in the 50 area.. but I know you would not do that.
Honestly, I'm not out to prove anyone's numbers wrong, we all have the same car.. but road conditions vary, as to terrain we drive on / in, as do driving speeds.. so you being able to get >50mpg is great news.. bet I could too if I drove where you were. I would need to coast when you do, basically 'follow you' and I would get the same mileage.
Oh, I don't think comments of 50mpg (I get 49.2 'normally') turns off anyone from getting a Prius.. this should encourage them. I do think if a new buyer reads some posts, and thinks they will get >55mpg, they will be disappointed.. and if they think they will get >60pmg.. we are misleading them. In the next 100 buyers, perhaps 1 will see 60mpg.. most will see close to 50mpg however.
I hope this has cleared up any Prius Smashing that you may have felt.
Scott
Welcome to the Prius world..
sc
You own a great little car, and it will serve you well. Be happy with it no matter where in the MPG spectrum you are.
sc
Yes there are extremes of drivers getting over 60 mpg and under 40 mpg... however the histogram is very very accurate in that the middle 50% is between 45-50 .. on average ... over an entire continent's driving. The results therein reflect Canadian and Dakota type winters and Arizona summers; Rocky Mtn driving and dead flat Florida driving; NYC driving and Texas plains driving.
The Median value for the entire population for all kinds of drivers over millions of miles of driving in all kinds of conditions is 47.7 mpg. That's the best guideline on average for anyone new.
Special conditions may results in this unusual statement.
Your Mileage May Vary
Keeping the battery as fully charged as possible is where you need to focus. Since we don’t plug our cars in at night, there’s a few tricks. The #1 best way to charge the battery is when you are coasting at a speed with your foot off the accelerator. This charges the battery more quickly than braking or the gas engine charging it.
Speaking of braking. That’s another subject. The car has regenerative braking as well as conventional brake pads. Regenerative means that energy is going back to charge the battery. You can learn to control this. When you use the brake pedal lightly, it is in regenerative mode. When you use a medium or firm brake pedal, braking is done by way of the brake pads, and the car is not capturing as much energy to charge the battery.
The next thing I’ve learned has to do with basic physics. It takes more energy to push a car that has its front wheels turned to one side than a car that has its front wheels straight. What this means is that whenever possible, I do not press the accelerator pedal during a turn until I’ve straightened the front wheels. I accomplish this by having enough speed before starting the turn that I have time to straighten the wheels again before applying the accelerator. Can you always do this? – No. You may have people behind you or you might otherwise need to stay with the accerator during a turn. But doing it whenever you can is where the benefit is.
I used to drive more with the regular flow of traffic, 10 mph or so above the speed limit. Now that I’ve got a car that can literally give a very wide range of gas mileage, I try not to drive over 57mph on the highway (unless I’m in a real hurry), and I find that not very many people stay behind me on the road which gives me much more opportunities to work the accelerator pedal in such a way that the car is charging the battery as much as possible. The highlight of my day is on my morning commute. There is a 2 lane city street in Houston (Windfern) that’s more like a drive in the country that I take every morning after getting off the beltway. I can drive for about 5 miles on this street without the gas engine coming on at all. The speed limit is 35, and I go about 37-38. I’ve noticed that speeds above 40 tend to keep the gasoline engine on rather constantly.
It takes learning some new tricks, and allowing yourself to be taught how to drive again, and not by a driving instructor, but by a car that gives you a visual indicator of what’s happening in the drive train.
I did a Google search early on after getting the car, and I stumbled on this film clip of a group of a dozen or so people in Japan that are known as ‘hybrid hackers.’ They have hacked into their Prius’ computers, and get over 100 mpg, and in the case of the one lady in their group she gets 150mpg out of a Toyota Prius. I know that hacking into the computer would void my warranty, so I’m not going to that extreme, but I am working with the car by way of ‘massaging the accelerator pedal’ rather than just depressing it to go.
I hope this helps. The main thing is to take a deep breath, and don’t allow yourself to be in such a hurry. When you drive more relaxed, you will see an improvement. The more it improves, the more you challenge yourself to keep getting higher & higher gas mileage.
Also I keep all tires at 40PSI
I read about Japanese hypermilers but not that they achieved >100MPG through as you stated hacking the computer. Perhaps you like to provide the link to this story? Good / great mileage can be achieved without hacking the computer.
You always going to have a variance between the MFD MPG as compared to your manual calculation. How do you know that you filled up to the same level as your previous fill? Do the calculation and you'll find just a small variation will have a great sensitivity to the MPG numbers. Added to this complexity is the fact that the Prius has a fuel bladder that expands / contracts over time and its flexibility depends on outside temps. The level of fill-up depends on pump shut-off (some pumps shut off sooner); how fast you fill-up; how level your car is; and temps. Because of all these variables the MFD MPG is more reliable on an individual tank basis. In the long run the MFD has been found ~2% (only) more optimistic than manually calculated MPG over the same extended period.
As an example I had my Prius now for 18 months and have driven it for 27K miles with 62 fill-ups. My life-time weighted average MFD MPG is 59.4 compared to 58.3 calculated. On an individual tank basis some tanks have large variations but overall 1.7% difference only.
I don't advise to hack the computer instead recommend to study up on the car on www.priuschat.com where you can get lots of great tips from many experienced Prius owners.
Good luck,
Gabe
I think you answered the question yourself; what people "claim" in reports on the internet is not necessarily what they actually got. There are various possible reasons for this, such as incomplete refills and reporting only the highest calculated outliers. But the idea that you're doing something "wrong" by getting only 44 mpg; ummm - - - I think you're beating yourself up over nothing.
Quite a few people I know drive the prius where I work; we also have some in our fleet that I've tried. They all get low to mid 40's mpg on average. Nobody gets even 50 mpg, and none of them post on edmunds.
Hope this helps you feel better.
...followed by many more and higher MPG numbers.
how is this possible given your stmt?!!!
link title
I finally broke the 100 mpg/tank barrier! On 9/16/08 I filled up with 8.58 gallons after traveling 867.4 miles for 101.096 mpg.
link title
__________________
re"Nobody gets even 50 mpg, and none of them post on edmunds."
Is that so?!!! Then what is this: :confuse:
link title
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/prius/2009/consumerreview.html
HMMM phd really does mean "Pile it Higher and Deeper"!!!
Due to variabilites beyond our control from the gas station to the fuel tank/bladder to the outside environment watching one tank or another is far too specific ( looking at a tree ) to have any concern. Only after accumulating a sufficient amount of data can one really determine what the vehicle truly is using in fuel. This will take a year or two ( the forest ). And the result will be be about 47-48 mpg.
A couple of other important suggestions:
1. Short trips are death on fuel economy. You can see this on your MFD every day that you drive. Look at the first 5 min bar on the CONSUMPTION screen. It will almost always be 25-35 mpg. THIS is the anchor that is holding down your average fuel economy. Having to overcome this first 5 min of relatively inefficient driving brings down your daily/weekly average. DON'T TAKE SHORT TRIPS!!!!!
2. DON'T STOP - EVER!!!! This may seem ridiculous but no vehicle can overcome Newton's First Law of Physics. Succinctly a body at rest will remain at rest unless a superior force overcomes it's inertia. When you come to a stop light or stop sign normally you will stop the vehicle. It takes a huge amount of energy to get the vehicle rolling again. That energy always comes from the ICE through burning fuel. Now some of it may have been stored in the battery previously so it's the stored energy that first gets you rolling away from a light but all that does is deplete the battery quickly such that the ICE has tokick in sooner and replace the used energy in the battery reserve.
You will likely get your best fuel economy on a 30-60 min trip where you never have to stop and you must keep to driving at about 35 mph due to traffic or to road laws. I've averaged 65 mpg for such a 50 mi trip.
93,000 miles with a lifetime average of 2.1 gpc used ( 47.9 mpg ).
2. DON'T STOP - EVER!!!! This may seem ridiculous ...When you come to a stop light or stop sign normally you will stop the vehicle. It takes a huge amount of energy to get the vehicle rolling again.
You will likely get your best fuel economy on a 30-60 min trip where you never have to stop and you must keep to driving at about 35 mph due to traffic or to road laws."
Thanks for the great :surprise: advice spyder! "Don't stop - ever" ... "normally you would stop...". You must have a lot of followers, based on my observation of driving behaviour.
Can you please help me with my mileage? I'm struggling :confuse:
So far have driven 26,999 miles since Apr 2007 and pumped 455.46 US gallons of fuel. No matter how hard I try I can't average " And the result will be be about 47-48 mpg". I can't even get that on a single tank let alone overall. Can you help me out please?
I do stop when I have to (stop signs/light ...) and I do take frequent longer trips than the 30-60 minutes you stated as best for MPG. I admit driving on the HWY (50% of my driving is HWY) and do go up to and over 60 MPH. Are these the reasons why I can't get your predicted 47-48 MPG?
Thanks in advance for all your help
Gabe
Your advice is good in fact I do the same, but if you listen to the experts / people with more experience with the Prius they will tell you this:
There is an energy conversion loss (gas to electric or electric to kinetic). Guess well all the stored battery energy comes from - yes your gas engine. Initially it had to come from the battery and any replenisment has to come from the battery. They recommend to stay off the battery and that a no arrows glide is better than running off the battery. Like you, I also coast (blue arrows only going to the battery) when approaching a red light / stop sign. I've been doing more gliding (no arrows) as a result whenver possible, but since I don't want to hold up traffic I do also run on the battery often.
Good luck sounds like you're doing well
Gabe
You hit the nail right on the head - the claim is that there is no friction when gliding. BTW the Prius MFD is great in showing instant MPG but it only goes to 99.9. I recently bought a Scangauge which goes up to 9999 MPG and even better if you switch it to L/100KM a zero reading means there is not even a trickle of gas is being used when gliding.
Best of luck , sounds like you got the bulk of the concept and you can put it into practice,
Gabe
You obviously got the secret Super Ultra Efficiency option package that very few knew about and which allows you to be in the upper 1% of all Prius owners. I didn't know the code for that option or I would have chosen it also.
For the rest of us plebians we have to make do with just good normal results. Nice hand, sir.
When you are driving, and you take your foot off the accelerator (coasting), the car then uses the momentum of the wheels to back-drive the electric motor, thus charging the battery. This method of charging is much more efficient than regen braking since there will not be as much energy lost due to heat being generated.
Its true that gliding can help you go a little further than coasting, but gliding does nothing at all to charge the battery. What may be perceived as friction while coasting is actually the electric motor being back-driven. And yes, with any rotating part, there is friction. That's just something that cannot be avoided. You even have friction in the wheel bearings while simply gliding.
I don't know. There's people that get better gas mileage than me, but I'm happy with my average of 57.5.
When you are driving, and you take your foot off the accelerator (coasting), the car then uses the momentum of the wheels to back-drive the electric motor, thus charging the battery. This method of charging is much more efficient than regen braking since there will not be as much energy lost due to heat being generated.
Its true that gliding can help you go a little further than coasting, but gliding does nothing at all to charge the battery. What may be perceived as friction while coasting is actually the electric motor being back-driven. And yes, with any rotating part, there is friction. That's just something that cannot be avoided. You even have friction in the wheel bearings while simply gliding.
I don't know. There's people that get better gas mileage than me, but I'm happy with my average of 57.5.
The Scangauge sounds interesting. Where would one get it, is it hard to install, and where does the unit sit int he car?
Thanks for all your help and advice. I loved my Prius even with the lower mpg than I was expecting but now I love it even more knowing the reasons why I'm not getting that mpg. I'm working more on all the suggestions and this tank is showing 50 mpg. That makes me very happy.
Thanks again,
Jana
I was just reading this tread over on PriusChat on SGII:
link title
you can also use their search function. Also on www.cleanmpg.com you'll find lots of good info on the subject. Both sites at times have a group buy or discounted price on the SGII and advertise it on the site or look in the PriusChat shop. I think the price is already discounted. The manufacturer's website is: link title
One reason I got it is to monitor my water temp to feel safer when using grill block. You can also get segment MPG numbers. BTW congrats on your great MPG (WOW you got to 50) with your short trips and all. You're another proof that if people are interested it is possible despite of all the nay sayers. I'm going to read some of your prior posts to get more details of your driving profile and if possible offer you some additional tips. You got some good ones already from cdhc he knows what he is talking about
Best of luck,
Gabe
For (especially) short trips an engine block heater (EBH) helps. It will improve warm up time thus the first 5 minutes MPG. This is especially useful in colder weather. They can be put on a timer an kick in say 3 hours before taking off. In colder weather lot of us use grill blocking partial to full pending how cold it is. Also have you looked in tire pressure you may want to consider it. You already talked about combining short trips - that's great too.
link title has many other great info - there is a Fuel Economy forum. Good luck,
Gabe
Great! I've checked them out and have put both in my favorites. I'll have my mechanic friend check it all out for me for further guidance on the SGII.
When I filled up today (less than 5 gallons actually), the actual came up to 56.57 so I probably didn't fill it up all the way because of the bladder but that sure was nice to see (the computer still said 50 which I'm happy with). Next fill up should give me a better idea of the real numbers.
I live in Las Vegas so the summer heat does affect the gas mileage--sorry, must use AC! The winters are very mild but the evenings can get down into the upper 30's (usually more like the 40's though) and the days range from the 40's to the 60's. I can't say I noticed any better or worse gas mileage last winter but am now keeping track of it all so I'll have a better handle on the numbers.
I'm going to get my oil changed tomorrow morning and will have them put the back tire air pressure at 40 and the front at 42. At least I think that's what it said to do. I'll double check that. I think it said the front should be 2 lbs higher than back.
Again, thanks for all your help.
Keep up those good habits! :shades:
A lot of folks in the The Inconvenient Truth About Ethanol discussion are reporting 7-10% mileage reductions vs regular gas. I assume this would also affect hybrids but might tend to be a bit muted because of the hybrid system.
My data clearly shows a decline in MPG during winter. How much of it is due to E10 vs the cold I don't know.
Spring Summer Fall Winter
2007 50.4 59 57.5 55.3
2008 62.4 64.5 63.1
change 23.8% 9.3% 9.7%
Gabe