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NEED TO FIND OUT IF BUYING OUT THE LEASE ON A 2005 TOYOTA TUNDRA SR5 / DOUBLE CAB/ 4x4/ 4.7 / V8 is the most economical way to go. The truck is coming off a 3 yr. lease (w/ $5M down) low mileage ..only 14,000 miles. The Lease Payoff amount is = $21,000. I can't afford to buy a new 08' truck nor do I want to get into another lease w/ higher payments for an 07 or 08 model. I realize this is a depreciating asset...but least I would own the truck at $21M and have closure. In addition, I would not have any more payments for several years down the road. The market value of this truck is worth at least $24M - $26M Market value. Please let me know your thoughts.
Pat
Not sure if TFS will negotiate the residual, but if it looks like the market value is less, they might be willing to sell it to you lower than the residual. Again, it's up to the bank, some banks will and some won't, but it can't hurt to ask.
I know you addressed this to Car_Man, but just thought I'd offer my two cents.
Good luck!
In general the used full-size truck market is in the dumper and your competing with new trucks that are heavily discounted. There was a time you could pick up a decent equipped '07 Tundra DC for around $25,000 and you can currently get an '08 for $27,000. Probably won't be long the '08's will have even more rebate as well. Not likely to find a buyer that will pay anywhere near what a new one is selling for uless they just really wanted the older bodystyle in which case they have gobs of choices. Toyota pushed a ton of these out on lease back in '05/'06 and there's a heavy stream of returns pouring through. I'm sure their plan was to have folks coming off lease and buying a new Tundra....but the new one doesn't interest me at all.
TFS told me to go to the dealership to process the paperwork for a buyout ..and they will not negotiate (the price is the price / a closed end contract). However, the stealership told me to contact the TFS if I want to buyout the car. I hope they don't continue to jerk me around..I really want a seemless transaction w/o any unnecessary hassles. Again, thanks for your information it is very much appreciated. Let me know your thoughts.
It's a solid truck, no doubt!
TMC told me I had to use a dealer and that's what I did. I called and talked to the credit manager who handled everything. Essentially, they have to buy it from Toyota for your residual and then sell it to you for the same amount. This is different than other leases I've used and I don't know exactly how that relationship works with the dealer. Since your residual is so much higher, I'd certainly try to negotiate with Toyota. They told me no-way, but like I said, my residual as of January 15th (i did the buyout around december 20th) was $19,400. Even with the low miles, (mine has 27k) that's a pretty big difference. The cap/running boards etc. likely didn't add anything to the residual and the residual is based on the original miles, not what you currently have. Yes, the vehicle is currently worth more but I wouldn't exactly TELL them it only has 14k miles on it...!! Mine was about 10k miles under the allowance and I told them I "thought it was pretty close". They still said no.
From what the TMC person told me, if you turn the vehicle in it's put into an online auction for dealers who can then buy it. I highly doubt any dealer would pay that much for it so TMC is going to lose out. I'd talk closely with the dealer about it and see what they say. My dealer told me Toyota would give them an opportunity to buy it, but I couldn't get any details out of him as to what he though they could get it for and if it would be less. Good luck!
To clarify, the KBB trade in value is $21M / & / Private Party value is $24M. I've also put down $5M upon initially leasing the vehicle. (That would bring the total car cost up to $34,500 or $35,500.) Does that price seem high to you ? or on target (I've lost track). I am not interested in selling this vehicle..as I want it for my own driving needs.
Pls. let me know any pitfalls to avoid when finalizing the buyout paperworkl at the dealership. This bullcrap really stresses me out.,,,for real.
The stealership keeps pushing for me to lease an 08' or finance a loan w/ TMF. When I explain that I want to buy the 05" he suddenly does not want to discuss anything further...(Things that make you go Hum?). (What gives?? )I guess that's how they make their money.
To tell you the truth I'm stuck on my SR5 05'. I noticed the newer model tundras don't have the fog lights (it's an additional option/ not standard) except on the Limited version. THANKS A MILLION FOR ALL YOUR HELP ! You guys know all the loopholes..if any">.
The Frontier turned out to be too small and too light! I feel a Tundra It's going to be much more comfortable and spaceous for the family for our summer vacation trips... besides my Shadow didn't fit too well on the back of this truck.
Therefore, could you please provide the current money factor and residual from TFS for a 2008 Tundra CrewMax SR5 4x2, 4.7L, 5 spd auto (model 8260), 36 or 39 months and 12K miles.
Thanks again for your help.
PC
Saludos,
PC
IMO, KBB is high on these in both trade and private party. At least what I've seen and was offered when trying to sell mine. I'm happy with it though but I'm not sure why your residual is so high. My truck sticker was around $34,000 and the sale price was around $31,000. Residual was $19,400. Obviously the higher residual helps you on payment, but makes the buy-out a little less attractive. But I'd say you're probably still ahead because of the low miles. If you like the truck, it really doesn't matter in my book. I didn't find anything I liked better so when nobody would give me my asking price, I just bought it.
Yet again the saleslady called today...wants me to come in to discuss my options. I specifically asked for the finance manager ...& that ended that phone call. Suddenly, when you say your buying the truck ..these salespeople literally hang up on your ear..
In any event, just got paperwork for the odometer reading..& I will meet with the finance manager next week to get things rollin... Thanks again for the heads up...on the Slow Turnaround. Like you, I am starting the process earlier to get things in order..prior the the lease end. Hopefully, I will have a seemless transaction at the Toyota dealership. Again, I appreciate eveyone's feedback it has been very helpful.
The 4k rebate and the 4k the dealership takes the 40k truck down to $32k.
With tax & tag down, my payment is at $540 for 72 months.
I think this works out better than the lease numbers.
Cap cost- $33500, Residual $18500, MF .00059, Sales Tax 7.75%, $0 down, $479 per month 36 month, 15K per year. Remember, wife tier 1+, me tier 3
We're in Southern California. Good, bad, or ugly?
the dealer, in So Cal, I'm working with is setting the cap cost at 500 over + .00059 mf (which is the buy rate)
Tier 1: .00039 - base rate
Tier 2: .00074 - base rate
Tier 3: .00134 - base rate
If they capped the cost at $500 over, but then adjusted the cap cost to include your 1st month, dmv fees, and acquisition fee, then I'd say you're looking good. Can I assume that the $33,500 is the adjusted cap cost with the aforementioned items rolled in so that you're drive offs are $0?
Toyota Tundra Double cab, Limited, 4x4
MSRP $39985
Initial Cap Cost $38412
Adjusted cap cost $38907
Lease term 36 months, 12000 miles/year
Money factor 0.00059
Residual 52.33%
Down payment $0
Tax rate 7.75% (Los Angeles Area)
Monthly payment $576 including tax.
Is this a good deal? I got so confused that I can not see it anymore ....
Thank you for your help!!!
They need to knock at least another $1000 off the cap cost to put you right around invoice.
The residual you stated IS accurate and with TFS's special money factors, you DO NOT get the rebate.
Get me the VIN and I can pull the invoice for you.
Is your credit over 730? What dealer are you working with?
As far as credit, I have 744, pulled just 3 days ago, and I am confident about this number ... I have leased from Toyota my previous 2005 Tundra, and I am leasing 3 other cars so I think I qualify for any promotion they might have.
I have this quote from Crown Toyota in Ontario California, but I think I would get a better and easier deal with Longo Toyota.
I just found a truck I would be interested in on their website:
VIN: 5TFBV58148X053419
It is listed with MSRP $$40,503
Here is the link to the car: http://www.longotoyota.com/VehicleDetails/914545334
I would appreciate your help with this truck. When I finish the deal I promise to leave the deal details as reference for all you guys.
I will do more work on this and let you know.
But I was really looking for some feedback on the deal. As I have friends/family members in the market for a new truck as well and wondered if I should refer them to this dealer or have them shop elsewhere.
Assuming a cap cost of invoice.
.00059 = ~$537/mo .00029 = ~$520/mo (figures includes sales tax)
If you roll in the acquisition fee, 1st month payment, and dmv fees so you have $0 drive offs:
.00059 = ~$579/mo .00029 = ~ $560/mo (figures include sales tax)
Today I found the perfect truck Tundra Double Cab Limited 2x4
The dealer was nice, but from start he pushed the numbers high and asked me to make a counter offer.
Here are the data for this truck:
Tundra Double Cab Limited 2x4
VIN: 5TFRV58188X049100
The sticker is $38502 including options and delivery:
======================================
OF, - TRD offroad
BL, - BedLiner
C4, - Carpeted Floor Mats
C8, - Convenience Package - Stainless exchaust tip, pedals, shift knob anodized
RB, - Stainless side steps
5J, - Rear view monitor with parking sensors
7J, - Licence plate bracket
Delivery $685
======================================
The lease terms I asked for 36months/15000miles.
At this request the residual he gave me was $18812(by the book)
The money factor was 0.00059
Drive off $1120 (including all fees and first month)
The local tax rate is 7.75%
His offer was $643 including tax.
I know already this is out of question and I do not feel playing games for hours to get the numbers more realistic.
I do not know how to calculate the lease in detail but I think with this drive off, I should be around $500 including tax and still give the dealer something over the invoice.
If is not too much to ask please run the numbers for me so I will be more confident making a counter offer.
What do you think shoud be a decent amount over the invoice?
What is the 0.00029 money factor ? I have seen it on his list and in your calculations as well.
Thank you again.
That joker (dealer) hit you at full tilt on that quote!! Toyota also has a $550 acquisition fee, which most dealer's just roll into your payments, but I'd recommend paying it upfront in your drive offs - up to you, though.
Now, with your excellent credit, you should get the "buy rate" mf of .00029, and assuming a cap cost around invoice at approx. $35,000, you should be out-the-door for ~ $502/mo. I'll get the actual invoice numbers for you in the morning, but it's gonna' be right around the numbers I just posted.
Trying to run some numbers on various 08 Tundra CrewMax 4x4 Limited configurations. Can you please tell me the MF and residual for Tier 1 / Tier 1+ credit for 36 months / 15,000 MPY?
Looking to make this happen this weekend. Thanks!
From your numbers, it looks like $33,000 is your adjusted cap cost which rolls in the 1st mo. payment, dmv fees, and acquisition fee which would roughly equate to around $1400 in which you would have paid up front in drive offs.. If this is the case, and again, I don't have enough information from your post(s), but guessing this is the scenario, it would appear that your initial gross cap cost was right around invoice, so yes, you did good.
Let me know what you find out.
Thanks!
If .00029 is the base factor on your model, then payments would be, $602.16/mo
Again, let me double-check on the numbers and see how and if they differ from certain trim levels and I'll get back to you shortly.
Apologize for any confusion.
This is the current deal I have:
2008 Tundra Crewmax 4x4 Limited -
Factory Installed Accessories: FE AL KG NV RL SR BL CF
MSRP - $47,046
My price - $42,368
He's telling me the residual for 36 Months/15K MPY is $22,931 and states there is no .00029 Tier 1+ rate. Is this right?
Can you tell me what kind of payment I will be looking at with the .00029 and .00059 MF respectively? Assume I will pay all drive offs up front and tax rate is 7.75%.
Thanks!
My numbers show that tier 1+ customers qualify for a base rate of .00029, but Toyota can be weird and limit it to certain models and trim levels (i.e DC, not Crewmaxx, 2wd, not 4wd, etc...)
If I consider all the other fees related to the lease and the first month payment, you are right, the numbers do not add up so the dealer rolled in the aquisition fee in the lease. I will double check as soon as I will have your answer on this truck.
Thanks,
Did you get a chance to confirm that info?
Thanks!
Again, my numbers only break it down in tiers and don't specify if the rates apply to all models.
I will say this... even if they for some reason don't honor .00029, .00059 is still an awesome rate, as it's well below market.
Push for that .00029, though.
Tier 1+: .00029 - base rate
Tier 1: .00039 - base rate
Tier 2: .00074 - base rate
Tier 3: .00134 - base rate
Here's the bottom of the invoice for your truck....
Total Accessories ...........................: $ 2107.00 $ 1468.50 $ 2107.00
Destination Charge ..........................: $ 685.00 $ 685.00
TDA .........................................: $ 391.00
Gasoline ....................................: $ 10.00
Dealer Holdback .............................: $ 714.00
Whsl. Financial Reserve .....................: $ 357.00
--------- ---------
Total .......................................: $ 34871.50 $ 38502.00
Residual Value ...: 36 mo
------- ------- ------- -------
STD (12k): 18,812
LOW (15k): 15,805
WOW ... this is what I call help. Thank you !!!
Please correct me if i am wrong ....
Offering the dealer $35000, his profit is $1199.5 on a vehicle sitting on the lot.
Do you think this is something a dealer will accept?
How do you see a good scenario to lease this vehicle 36months / 15000miles?
How much down (drive off - including what) and what do you esimate as monthly payment including tax (7.75%).
Regarding the money factor I asked 2 dealers today and all gave me the 0.00059 (ends 3/3/08) for credit score 744 - TransUnion.
The residuals you state, are correct but I do not understand why the dealer told me $18,812 on 15K miles .... Do we have different residuals for Limited editions or he did a mistake. Is it possible to negotiate the residual?
I am using some formulas to calculate the payment but I would like to check with you because you are very well informed about fine detais, fees, and othes BS included in lease terms.
I know I am a pain in the butt but, if we started and got this deep I would really appreciate your feedback to the end.
Maybe our discussion will give other people more accurate ideeas about lease calculations and what it takes to get a fair deal.
Thank you again ...
You're NOT a pain in the but... this is the whole idea of the forum - to help people get great deals and gain knowledge before entering the dealership.
I'm exhausted right now, but I'll run the numbers for you tomorrow (Friday), and then send you a reply.
Hang tight...
Sorry , was tired and made a mistake on the residuals when I posted.
Here are the correct ones for your truck.
STD ( 15k) 18,812
LOW (12k) 19,526
As for your truck, I'd really aim for them to cap the cost at about $400 below invoice. So, assumimg a cap cost of $34,471 ($400 below invoice), you're looking at monthly payments of $467.23 + $36.21 (7.75% tax) = $503.44/mo
Drive offs would include: 1st mo payment of $503.44 + License Fee of ~ $250-$300 + Registration of ~ $15-$25, Ca Tire Fee of $8.75, Doc Fee $45-$55, Lease Acquisition Fee of $550. You're looking at ~$1400 in total drive off fees.
If you cap the $550 acquisition fee into your lease payments, you'd be at $482.83 + $37.42 (7.75% tax) = $520.25/mo. Your drive offs would be ~ $900.
Numbers are based on a 36 month/15k-mi/yr lease term.
Good Luck... hope this helps.
For all DIY people, I hope this discussion was helpful.
1) in order to get the right information, provide the specifics of the vehicle and lease terms.
2) do not negotiate from MSRP down. Use the invoice to set the price you are to pay (CAP Cost)
3) know your credit before calculating rates
4) ask multiple dealers about the money factor and residual for your terms.
Things I have learned with the help of ocautoseeker:
1) Using KBB or Edmunds, figure the invoice of the base vehicle.
2) From the KBB invoice subtract Dealer Holdback (2%) and Wholesale Financial Reserve (1%) - (from KBB invoice substract the Destination charge as well)
3) To this number add the Toyota Dealer Advertising fee, Gasoline( price of 3 gallons) and Destination charge.
4) To this result, from KBB, add the invoice of the options you want on your vehicle.
Using this approach you will have a number close to the dealer invoice.
If you offer the invoice as a negotiated price, the dealer has a profit
of DHB+WFR ~$1000-$1200 on a car sitting on the lot.
This, I think, is acceptable from the dealer side but depends on the demand.
If you want to pay more(???), just add the amount to the calculated invoice and
present the new offer.
Dealers will accept with no much push a $500 over the invoice, generating for them $1500-$1700 profit.
As a lease scenario I would take ocautoseeker advise:
Drive off = 1st month payment, License Fee, Registration, Tire Fee, Doc Fee, Lease Acquisition Fee
Use a car lease calculator to figure your monthly payment, subtracting from the financed amount the 1st. month payment.
Add to your monthly payment the tax, and you will be close to what you should pay.
If you feel comfortable with this payment, try to knock off another $5 just for fun and take the car.
Please feel free to correct or add to this anything you might think will help a more accurate calculation.
Thanks again ocautoseeker
According to ocautoseeker's rule here's a lease scenario I ran for a 39 X 12.000 miles 2008 2WD Toyota Tundra CrewMax SR5 V8 4.7L 5 1/2 ft 5-Speed Automatic (8260) I'm interested on:
KBB Invoice: 26,854.00
dealer holdback (2%) 537.08
Wholesale Financial Reserve (1%) 268.54
destination charge 685.00
25,363.38
Dealer advertising fee (3%) 805.62
Gasoline (3 gallons) 10.95
destination charge 685.00
Invoice price: 26,864.95
Deck Rail System SR5 : 108.00
Fog Lamps : 88.00
Daytime Running Lights : 32.00
Radio, JBL w/6-Disc CD Changer in Dash : 780.00
Running Boards : 276.00
Wheels, Aluminum Alloy : 816.00
Total invoice price: 28,964.95
AGREED UPON VALUE (SELL PRICE) 28,560.00
Lease Acquisition Fee : 550.00
Processing Fee : 45.00
License Fee : 250.00
Registration Fee : 15.00
Doc Fee : 45.00
1st Month's Payment : 312.60
Gross Capcost : 29,777.60
Cap Reduction : 0.00
Residual Factor : 56%
Money Factor : 0.00029
Lease Term : 39 months
Base Monthly Payment (w/o Tax) : 294.93
Broward Sales Tax Rate : 6.00%
Taxable Payment : 294.46
Monthly Sales Tax : 17.67
Monthly Payment (w/ Tax) : 312.60
Are these numbers right?
Thanks for your help
PC
Starting from KBB invoice of $27,539, dealer cost of this car with the options($2100) you want should be around $28000
The advertising fee (TDA) is $391 so the invoice will be around $30000 (includes Destination, Dealer Hold back, Wholesale Reseve, TDA and Gasoline)
From this about $800-$900 is the Dealer Hold back and Wholesale Reseve.
If you offer the dealer 30,000 (invoice) his profit will be around $800-$900 (Dealer Hold back and Wholesale Reseve)
As far as the accuracy of this calculation I am not 100% sure but I hope ocautoseeker will help us out.
I did a basic estimate of the lease with $905 in fees as total of drive off for 39 months, and based on your stated 56% residual (I am not sure about this) and 0.00059 money factor (the 0.00029 I do not think is right) your monthly payment shoud be around $380-$390 including tax.
One more time .... I am trying to figure out this calculation approach and any feedback would be apreciated.
ocautoseeker ... please help us if you are not too tired )))
First, the KBB and Edmund's invoices already include the Destination, Holdback and Financial Reserve. Whether it includes the $10 fuel charge is really insignificant as ten bucks isn't going to break anyone. The only discrepency you should see from an internet invoice and a dealer invoice is the advertising fee (TDA). This fee will vary from manufacturer, but Toyota's is ~ 1.25% of the BASE invoice. Some will question as to whether this fee is legit, but most manufacturers factor the cost of advertsisng into their products and dealers typically don't like to haggle on this fee.
For Toyota: the holdback is 2% of the BASE MSRP and the Financial Reserve is 1% of the BASE MSRP. The destination is set and non negotiable, so don't even bother.
Below is a partial factory invoice from stef 3's ideal truck. I highlighted the important parts to better illustrate how the fees are itemized. The bottom line is this: when negotiating, knowing how much the dealer has in holdback and financial reserve is a great tool if you're looking to get really, really, really aggressive, and hit them at the right time of the month.
Retail Dealer
Vehicle Base Model ....................: $ 35710.00 (Base MSRP) $ 31246.00 (Base Invoice)
--------- --------- ---------
Total Accessories ...........................: $ 2107.00 $ 1468.50 $ 2107.00
Destination Charge ..........................: $ 685.00 $ 685.00
TDA .........................................: $ 391.00
Gasoline ....................................: $ 10.00
Dealer Holdback .............................: $ 714.00
Whsl. Financial Reserve .....................: $ 357.00
--------- ---------
Total Invoice/MSRP .......................................: $ 34871.50 $ 38502.
So, basically, the total invoice you would see here on Edmunds would most-likely read $34,480, which is only less the the $391 TDA fee. Make sense??