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Hi, cxc! Apparently your database is from another dimension in more ways than one - "Energy Conserving II" is an obsolete designation and has been for over six years. The EPA dropped that designation entirely with the introduction of "SL" rated motor oils. (The last motor oils which proudly displayed "Energy Conserving II" in applicable viscosities go back to the API "SJ" designation. We just entered the third year of the current "SM" motor oil era this month.) ALL current motor oils listing energy conservation qualities now simply state "Energy Conserving" in the bottom half of the API "donut" on the back labeling, though they at least equal if not better the energy conservation performance of motor oils previously labled, "Energy Conserving II". I may be mistaken, but I believe there are no "Energy Conserving" formulations in viscosity ranges exceeding xW-30. There are some European formulations* that aren't even "Energy Conserving" in the xW-30 range - Castrol Syntec "German Formulation" 0W-30 full Synthetic makes no claim of "Energy Conserving" since it borders on a 40 weight at operating temperature. (The European automakers put much more stock in engine protection than being miserly over an additional 0.5 mile per gallon.) I'll leave it to other readers of this thread to draw their own conclusions whom to believe regarding miraculous assertions of a 4-5 mpg improvement just by using 5W-20 "Energy Conserving" motor oils... I've had my say - have a good one, Bud.
This may not be a defect. Hyundai (and a number of other automakers) program the transmission control module to delay engagment of 4th gear when cold to hasten engine warm-up - a means to reduce the higher emissions of the richer fuel mixture necessary while the engine is cold. Sorry to hear of your other troubles. I agree - your fuel useage is dismal compared to mine. My '03 Sonata V6 easily attains 30+ mpg highway with the cruise control engaged (70 mph). I've achieved as high as 32 mpg on a 240 mile road trip to Las Vegas from San Bernardino. In the city, I attain 21-23 mpg - all of these figures are derived at each fill-up from a hand calculator I keep in the center console. While no ball of fire compared to most other V6 equipped cars, I've found Hyundai's 2.7L V6 more than adequate - and certainly smoother and quieter than the 2.2L 125 hp wunder-mill I4 I had in my '96 Accord, itself a nicely engineered piece. To date my only expenses have been for fuel, oil, filters and a set of quieter replacement tires than the noisy Michelin "Energy MXV4+" tires the car came with (an unanticipated benefit is that the new tires are less twitchy in x-winds and on rain-grooved pavement). To date my only warranty claim was for a defective cabin light switch discovered a couple of weeks after taking delivery. A week from this Tuesday, I'll have owned this ride four full years. The car had 3 miles clocked at delivery and I took the time and patience to break the powertrain in excruciatingly gently. The motor used about 3/8 qt of oil over the 1st 500 miles. Thereafter, nothing observable on the dipstick between oil changes. One or both of us got exceptions to the rule.
Also, when in "D" and lightly accelerating from a stop sign or light, there is a split second pause between 1st and 2nd gear, as if the car were being manually shifted. Harder acceleration reduces this effect. Anyone experience this? I'm guessing this is specific to the 4-speed tranny on the 4cyl engine. Is this normal?
I too have the pause into 2nd on light accel.
I've got the same box in my '03 V6 Sonata. My problem was just the opposite initially - the 1-2 upshift pounded home for the first two years but had a delayed downshift from 4th overdrive to 3rd direct when I punched it to pass. Eventually the 1-2 upshift smoothed out dramatically and the time to achieve a forced downshift reduced to the point it's the smoothest, best responding autotranny I've ever owned. I suspect Hyundai got enough owner complaints about harsh shifting that they re-wrote the operating firmware for a softer 1-2 shift initially. Expect the "fuzzy-logic" firmware to firm up the 1-2 upshifts gradually as the trannie continues learning your driving technique. In the meantime resist any urge to pour chemicals into that transaxle that promise amazing shift improvements. You'll only make things worse with a good chance of damaging the transaxle - Hyundai boxes are very sensitive to their fluid chemistry. Hyundai transaxles must only be filled or topped up with the proprietary "SP III" ATF only sold through Hyundai, KIA, and Mitsubishi dealerships and NOTHING else. Ever. (unless Mitsubishi eventually licences the formula to aftermarket fluid blenders for general retail distribution) You might wanna check the transaxle fluid level, too. Low fluid level could also result in soft/extended shifts. Check the "DO-IT-YOURSELF-MAINTENANCE" section in your owner's manual for instructions. There's nothing difficult or hazardous involved, but follow the instructions to the letter to assure an accurate reading.
I know that others have said that their mileage has improved as they have accumulated more miles on their cars. Possibly this is what is happening to me.
I took a trip of 204.5 miles traveling at a speed between 60 and 65 mph. I would judge that approximately 75 percent of the trip was at 63 mph. I had of course started with a full tank of gas. When I got to our destination I filed up again and it only took 5.4 gallons. According to my calculations this works out to 37.8 mpg.
The trip computer in the car actually showed 36.9 mpg. So it was a little bit pessimistic. I am anxious to try another trip and see if I can duplicate this mileage. This is almost as good as the EPA mileage for a Toyota Corolla. I will keep you posted.
Thanks,
txn428
*When California switched over to ethanol from MTBE as the State mandated fuel oxygenator January 1, 2003, I did notice some driveability issues for the 1st several tankfulls. With 20/20 hindsight, I suspect now that those driveability problems (poor fuel mileage, hard cold starting, "missing" under hard load, etc.) were the result of the gasahol gradually ridding my car's fuel system of accumulated condensation. The severity lessened with each subsequent tankful and, after the fourth tankfull of E10 gasahol, all those issues were totally resolved and have remained so since.
My car is still under 500 miles, so I rarely go over 55-60mph since the engine is still in its break-in period. I'm hoping my mileage will increase over time, but have others experienced this kind of mileage in their first month of ownership? Better, same or worse -- using similar driving techniques? Thanks.
Gosh, ya' think? My '03 Sonata 2.7L V6 was terrible right out of the chute, too. EPA rated for 19/27, I only got 16/24. Things didn't jibe with EPA until I had nearly 5K miles clocked. Like you I observed the owner's manual run-in procedure (mostly - I did find myself creeping into 60-65 mph territory ocassionally...) There's nothing magic about Hyundai's 1,200 mile nominal run-in period - the motor hasn't suddenly finished running-in as the odometer crosses from 1,199 miles to 1,200 miles. While you're then free to run with the rest of the freeway-fliers, in reality the motor is still running-in, albeit more subtley. I even continued noticing slight fuel economy improvements past 5K miles. By about 22K miles things finally leveled out.
(Those reporting extraordinary fuel economy within the first month of ownership may've put a lot of miles on the first month, bought a dealership demo, and/or used the "run-it-like-ya'-stole-it" break-in technique. Time'll tell whether doing the latter is in the motor's best long-term interest - but it'll probably be a subsequent owner's issue to deal with in any event. {Ask me why I would never consider an off-lease purchase...} Keep doin' whatcher doin', xj220 - you'll be fine.;))
Everyone drives differently and lives in various parts of the country, with various type of traffic and road conditions. All of which impact gas mileage readings.
However, having said that, I feel that Hyundai does have a protracted break-in period. Possibly due to using harder metals in their engines. It seems that everyone is universally reporting break in periods that can exceed 10,000 miles. Although most seem to have achieved their maximum gas mileage by the time they have put 5,000 miles on their cars.
The 37.9 mpg that I achievement on my last road trip, was driven at approximately 63 miles per hour for something over 200 miles with almost no town driving. The city driving makes a tremendous difference on your gas mileage. Even driving around town for ten miles or so prior to hitting the road on a shorter trip can take several miles per gallon off of your test tank.
Usually average 26 MPG on 60% moderate suburban driving 5% downtown traffice 35% highway. If wife or daughter drives the car mileage drops approx 15%.
QuikTrip
Chevron
Conoco
Phillips
76
Shell
Entec Stations
MFA Oil Company
Kwik Trip/Kwik Star
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Chevron-Canada
Aloha Petroleum
Tri-Par Oil Company
Shell-Canada
Texaco
Petro-Canada
Wait until you can take a trip of several hundred miles on the highway. You'll probably be looking at 30 mpg with the cruise set at 65.
First tank - avg 19.7 mpg (strangley, it first said 22.1 mpg, then went way down. Maybe because I keep it under 55mph.)
Second tank - avg 19.7 mpg (still keeping it under 55-60 mph)
Third tank - avg 20.2 mpg (yes, it's finally going up! But I'm also starting to go as high as 70mph. Oops!)
Current odometer reading: 970 miles. Mileage nowhere near what I hoped, but we'll see. I do about 80%hwy/20%city. If I can get it up to 24-25 mpg I'll be very happy.
Question: The MPG reading on the dash NEVER goes up or down much (except when I test drove the car and it strangely said 22.1mpg). In other words, the reading (and I check it everyday) has never been lower than 19.6mpg or higher than 20.2mpg. And at most the change is 0.2 mpg on any given trip, no matter what the driving condition and whether I'm on the hwy or not. Is this normal for the Sonata? I'm asking because I'm reading others here say that they got as much as 10mpg difference from one trip to the next. (I reset the trip on every fill up).
On your 80 hwy/ 20 city usage, how much of your driving includes stop signs, sitting at traffic lights or drive-up windows at a bank or fast food joint. Whenever you're stopped, you are getting zero mpg. Spend 10 minutes in a drive-up lane and you'll see the trip average mpg drop like a rock if you reset it every (both times so far) tankful.
If you want to see how you are dong per tank full, reset it everytime you gas up. If you want to se how the car is doing overall reset it every 1,000 to 1500 miles.
I'm guessing (& could be wrong) that this is the first time you have had a trip computer. Many people who have never had one before don't understand them.
I back out of my garage and have to stop the car to get out and shut the garage door (zero mpg) go up the driveway and stop to pick up the newspaper (zero mpg). Then I drive to the first stop sign (having to accelerate twice in the process). At the stop sign I get zero mpg. If I can pull right out, great, but if I have to wait for 20 cars to go by, all that time is zero mph. Your trip computer is counting every drop of gas that you burn whenever the engine is running.
I was confused the first time we had a trip computer in 1987. Want to get a little more confused, turn the display to the average speed setting. You'll be surprised at how slow your average speed is compared to what you think you were averaging. Stops, slowing down for traffic, turning from one street to another, accelerating back to desired speed all cut down your average speed.
And yes I'm familar with digital trip comp, which is why I'm bringing this up. I also own an 03 Elantra GT and I occasionally drive my Aunt's Lexus ES330. While I have to admit I've hardly paid attention to the Elantra's trip (someone else drives it regularly), the ES330's mpg indicator changes at a moments notice (i.e., goes from 22mpg one moment to 16mpg the very next second). I'm not seeing that in my Sonata. Ever. This is why I'm wondering if this is typical for Sonata/Hyundai or if there is something wrong with my particular car.
Higher octane gasoline is more difficult to ignite, too, which might be marginally problematic for startups in very cold weather. Hyundai, as most current automakers, uses knock sensors* to "tell" the ECM how far to advance ignition timing - to a point just shy of detonation ("pinging"), and do so dynamically regardless of load, barometric pressure, and vehicle speed. What this translates to is that if an owner goes to the expense of premium unleaded gasoline (91 pump octane), there will be a subtle increase in engine power and torque (perhaps 3-5 additional horsepower where the rubber meets the road after subtracting for parasitic losses through the transmission and differential). Whether the difference will be noticeable to most drivers is debatable, but it can be measured with the car on a dynomometer. I suspect there's little or no improvement in fuel economy, though - certainly insufficient justify the extra $3.50 or so at nearly dry tank fill-up time. Higher octane gasoline will not damage an engine or increase fuel useage - sorry, both of those statements in your post were incorrect.
*A knock sensor is literally a small microphone that picks up detonation shock waves traveling through the metal at sound levels even too low for the human hearing response to perceive. Hyundai 4-cyl engines have one screwed into the block. Hyundai V6 engines have two knock sensors - one each per cylinder bank, and mounted in the valley between the cylinder banks.
I am still getting around 28 on highway only with speeds 65-70 mph. I have noticed a gain or loss of about 2 mpg with signifigant tailwind or headwind. Mileage also varies greatly with speed... 62 mph might get you 30 and 75 mph drops to 25, again the wind seems to have effect.
Add to your list uncorroborated promises that measurable increases in engine power will occur with the use of synthetic motor oils. (Respectfully to those who believe that - baloney.) What synthetic oils bring to the table are somewhat reduced wear (though no where nearly to the point that synthetic advocates often claim), easier starting in very cold weather, and better stability against chemical breakdown in the presence of high heat - particularly over extended oil change intervals*. If I lived in Antarctica or towed a heavy trailered boat routinely across Death Valley in August, I'd use a full synthetic. For those who want to use a synthetic - by all means do so. It's your money and it can't hurt. Just be aware that how you drive and otherwise care for your ride determines far more how many trouble free miles you'll enjoy than the type or brand of motor oil you choose - presuming you stick with the latest API/ILSAC quality ratings for American and Asian cars or ACEA ratings for European cars.
*which, by and large, American and Asian automakers don't recognize for warranty purposes... :confuse:
The new Sonatas are substantially larger (heavier) than the prior generation models they replaced.
The new Sonatas' 3.3L V6 engine is substantially more powerful (thirstier) than the 2.7L V6 engine it replaced.
Nevertheless, expect further improvement in highway fuel economy as the engine continues running in. (Hyundai does set their engines up on the tight side during build and recommends an extended break-in in the owner's manuals.) City useage is predictably worse - especially in "'rush hour' crawl" (Am I the only person who sees that phraseology as a non-sequitur?), since you get zero mpg when stopped with the engine idling.
Addendum - I just took my own advice. The following is a list of Top Tier gasoline providers, though I make no claim to its completeness:
U.S. TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:
Aloha Petroleum
Chevron
Conoco
Entec Stations
Kwik Star/Kwik Trip
MFA Oil Company
Phillips
QuikTrip
76
Shell
Texaco
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Tri-Par Oil Company
Canadian TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:
Chevron-Canada
Petro-Canada
Shell-Canada
Mexican TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:
Get Real! (There's a reason many Americans mispronounce PEMEX, "Pee-Mex"... )
Yes I drive fast and accelerate fast but my previous V6 Accord would average about 24 to 26 miles per gallon.
My Sonata averages between 16 and 18 miles per gallon. The highest I ever averaged was about 19.5 mpg once.
Also, I use both the 'computer' on the dash, as well as fill up the car completely and check the mileage as I know that both together provide the best average.
Needless to say I do drive fast on the highway usually always over 80 unless its rush hour. But I had MUCH better mileage with the Accord I traded in (wish I hadn't now).
And no - I don't tow 2000 lbs with me, its just usually me and nothing more than a few CD's in the car!
Very dissapointed to say the least. I will not buy another Hyundai again based on my experience (not to mention 3 trips to the dealer - two for warranty work and one for a recall).
Thanks for the encouragement, I am hoping for it (MPG) to keep increasing. Unfortunately, most of my miles will still be around town, with maybe a short run to see family, about 125-150mi each way. This (KW) trip happens maybe once a year, although I keep threatening to relocate somewhere else.
van