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Comments
Depends on your budget as well. If you want more luxury in the ride, the Toyota Camry Hybrid is better. MPG champ is the Prius, but the HCH is respectable.
If you are in a budget crunch and don't mind a small car, the Honda Fit or Toyota Yaris get very good road mileage. I mention this because Hybrids are at their absolute best in stop and go driving - at highway speeds the gasoline engine is always running.
You could get the Fit (for example) for around $16K (more for the sport model). No batteries, very reliable, good MPG. Just something to consider.
They didn't do the trans fluid flush or check the EGR valve, and I'm wondering if there might be a less expensive fix available?
thanks,
Stephen
I'm at 75K.
thanks.
Thankfully this thread exists or I might feel even more frustrated than I already do. I have a 2003 Hybrid Civic with nearly 40,000 miles on it. I've recently encountered this shuddering issue when accelerating and my Honda dealer is currently "fixing" the problem by flushing the transmission fluid and replacing it. I am skeptical that this will work, but what makes me even more skeptical is that the fellow I am dealing with says that this repair isn't covered by warranty.
Am I missing something? Isn't the powertrain warranty for 5 years or 60,000 miles? It has only been four years since I purchased the car, and it has less than 60,000 miles. I just thought I would clarify before I made a fuss about it.
Thanks,
Cameron
http://www.hybridcars.com/forums/2003-civic-hybrid-t943.html
As far as the flushing, it did NOT fix the problem in my case. Trust me, it WILL continue, 109K and still shuddering.
In my opinion, these '03 Honda CVT's :lemon: are defective!
Sorry but the trail has gone cold on that 1+ year-old link. I remember what I did, though, and it's pretty simple (I am definitely NOT a mechanic but managed fine, didn't even swear once): you just unplug the electrical connection from the EGR valve unit, then remove two bolts that hold the EGR value unit to the engine. Once free, turn it over and you'll see the inside of the valve. I soaked it in carb cleaner overnight, which removed a ton of carbon desposits. Then I just bolted it back on, plugged in the electrical, and goodbye low-speed bucking! However, imediately thereafter I traded the car in, fearing my luck was due to run out (1st trans died at 30K, and I had about 30K on the 2nd one). I would not buy another CVT honda, to be honest - I think they have a REAL problem, wich explains why they usually do the 1st replacement for free even for cars with expired warranties.
I should mention that the low-speed bucking that was fixed by the EGR cleanout is not quite the same as the growl-shudder-buck of the dying CVT. I experienced both (separately, thank God). The EGR-bucking has no growl or shudder, only the buck-buck-buck before you get up to speed from a standstill (particularly on an incline). The two might be easily confused, so I'd recommend disconnecting the electrial connection to the EGR valve and driving the car around to see if there is any change, before you assume the problem is or isn't the EGR valve. I only did the removal and cleaning of my EGR valuve after I first unplugged it, and the bucking stopped. Of course, if you unplug the EGR and the bucking stops, and then after cleaning out the EGR the car bucks again, it probably means you need a new EGR valve, which you can get at an auto parts store for about $150-$200 and install yourself, or have a garage install for you for probably about $50. Still a long cry from the $3+K new trans.
One funny memory I have from all this was how when the car had the EGR-buck problem I took it to Clinton (NJ) honda and the very friendly folks there looked me in the face and said, "our service technician drove the car and didn't notice anything unusual"! OF COURSE NOT, I'M A SCREWBALL WHO IMAGINES THINGS. When I mentioned the EGR problem that was being talked about on this forum, they replied, "there's nothing in any service bulletins regarding problems with the EGR valve." OF COURSE NOT, I'M A NUT-CASE WHO JUST LIKES TAKING DAYS OFF OF WORK TO SPEND ALL DAY AT THE DEALERSHIP FOR THE FREE COFFEE AND YEAR-OLD TIME MAGAZINES. What a hoot.
Bob Guynn
Bob Guynn
Bob Guynn
The green drive light turned red, and I limped to side of the road in heavy traffic.
The trouble light had come on, and I completed my trip of 30 more miles off the main road, much to the displeasure of my wife.
Took it to my dealer and they said I needed a new transmission for a cost of $3300.00, of which they agreed I ONLY had to pay half.
I called Honda service in California to seek some recourse on the matter, as I only had 25,000 + miles on the car.
After much bargaining, they dealer said that it would only cost me the labor of $481.95 to replace the tranny, and I agreed, and they would order the parts.
This was on June 6.
I phoned my dealer asking had the parts arrived, and they said that Honda in California stopped the order, and that it might just be a computer upgrade to the ECM!
Helloooo!! A few days later they scheduled an appointment and did the upgrade for free. Will wonders never cease!
I had been driving the car for more than a month with the trouble light on, and no problems.
Just last week, I received from Honda in California, a RECALL notice referring to the trouble light problem, and that it would be fixed free.
I phoned them and said I was charged almost $100.00 to trouble-shoot my trouble light problem.
They said to send a copy of my bill to them, and they would look into refunding my money. Harold
thanks, and hopefully this works
I've only had the Prius for a couple of weeks but it already is getting 10miles per gallon better mileage than the Honda. The Honda only got, at best 39mpg, sometimes it only got 34mpg. Doesn't a regular non-hybrid civic beat this?
My advice, trade in the hybrid while the resale is still decent and get a Prius.
And, btw, whoevers posting this stuff about "All cars have problems" and "This is probably a really small percentage of Civic Hybrids that have a problem", Do you work for Honda or what?
Any thoughts? Has anyone else had a problem like this? I can't get to the dealer until the weekend at the earliest. Is this some sort of defensive mechanism that's coming on because there's something seriously wrong with my brakes? (I got had the brakes checked when I got my oil changed a month ago and the mechanic said there was nothing wrong).
Just got rid of a huge gas guzzler chevy truck and purchased a 2004 AT HCH w/ 77K miles on it. Love the car and ESPECIALLY the MPG!
I 've only had it a month, and been reading the threads about the CVTs. Every now and then, my green drive indicator dot flashes momentarily, then returns to a steady state. I'm thinking of changing the CVT fluid myself (I'm fairly mechanical)and seeing if that solves the problem, before going any further w/ the burnishing technique the dealer uses.
I haven't been to the dealer yet, but before I go was curious about some questions.
What is the powertrain warranty on the HCH?
Are there any service bulletin related to this year or CVT in general?
Are there any recommended extended service warranties (from you folks)to pursue?
Any other issues (I've also seen the threads on the EGR valve) I need to be aware of ?
BTW, love the forum, lots of GREAT information!
Honda came out with the following information below... years after they might have known of the problem which may have caused a lot of people a lot of money and frustration.
_____________________________________________________________________
Service Bulletin 07-049
Warranty Extension: CVT Start Clutch Judder
Released: August 24, 2007
Cars Covered:
01-05 Civic GX with CVT - All
01-05 Civic HX with CVT - All
03-05 Civic Hybrid with CVT - All
01-05 Insight with CVT - All
Background:
"On affected vehicles, a momentary judder may be felt after accelerating from a stop, but only up to about 15 mph. The most likely cause of the judder is a worn start clutch in the CVT (continuously variable transmission). To increase customer confidence, American Honda is extending the warranty for this potential problem to 7 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. This extended warranty covers only CVT start clutch judder below 15 mph and CVT drive belt slippage (see Service Bulletin 07-050, Warranty Extension: CVT Drive Belt Slippage). Any other customer complaints with the CVT are covered by the normal 3-year, 36,000-mile new vehicle warranty.
This waranty extension does not apply to any vehicle that has ever been declared a total loss, or any that has been issued a salvage, branded, or similar title under any state's law."
"Out of Warranty: Any repair performed after warranty expiration may be eligible for goodwill consideration by the District Parts and Service Manager or your Zone Office. You must request consideration, and get a decision, before starting work."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------
In short, if you're having this problem, get it to the dealership asap. You don't want to go out of this warranty. If you do, it'll cost you a lot of money and time. The labor alone on changing the CVT starter clutch was quoted to be about $800.00 if you were going to pay out of pocket, and the CVT starter clutch kit is only available through their Controlled Parts Ordering System where you can only guess how much it it will cost you...
I hope that this information might be helpful to someone. Let us know how your experience went.
Would really be helpful. I'm sure Honda will not even send the notice to those of us who are over 100K miles. Appreciate any further details. Like to be as well prepared as possible when seeking goodwill consideration.
However, after talking to Honda Warranty, they had stated that if you were experiencing this particular problem and that you're pretty close to 100k mile mark even if over, they might reconsider your car for goodwill consideration.
If it's really out of warranty, a Goodwill Warranty maybe extended through your Honda Service department with the approval of a District Parts and Service Manager. They may not cover the whole deal but it helps a whole lot when they can purchase the part under "warranty" price and work something out for the labor cost as well.
Yesterday things got "interesting". As I entered a toll tunnel during peak-hour the car would not change out of the lowest "gear" (I know it's a CVT transmission, but gear will have to do). I managed to gear out of the tunnel by travelling at 45km/h with the engine screaming at 5,500rpm. At a set of lights at the other end of the tunnel I attempted to take off only to find that the transmission was now stuck in the highest gear. This meant that I crawled away from the lights at about 2km/h with the engine at idle speed. I found a parking spot and called the dealer who sent a truck to collect it.
Today I called the dealer who tells me that they can't find anything wrong with it and that there are no known problems like this. They said they will reset the ECU and I should pick it up later today.
Has anyone had similar problems? If so what was done to fix it?
Thanks
Ian
I took it to the dealership this morning, they told me they can't find anything wrong with it but they did notice that they should replace my start clutch judder and showed me the same service bulletin as posted on another post. So I'm still driving around with the problems and I have to wait until the dealership gets the parts so the judder can be fixed next week. The guy told me that if the computer doesn't register an error and/or they can't replicate the issue they can't do much about it other than give it back to me and see if it happens again (which means if it happens again it may be a bigger problem).
I'm still disappointed that I took my car in in Sept for the bucking issue - they couldn't find anything wrong yet they had this bulletin so it could've been fixed earlier. At least its still falls under the warranty.
BTW I'm at 5 years, 77K miles and struggling to get up hills. Bucking, shaking, etc. all make my driving experience very unconformable.
Great forum and information.
My 2004 Civic Hybrid is in for service as I type. This will be the thrid time for this shuddering issue. First time was back in October, and they did the burnishing thing, and then the problem came back, so I brough it back in December, and they told me they could not find the problem. It is my daughters car, so I traded with her for the past month to see for myself, and the problem happens quit often, and more so when the car goes into sleep mode approaching a stop.
Anyway, armed with all this data from the forum, I will be certain to hold the dealers feet to the issue. I also took it to a differnt Honda dealer this time, because I think the former dealer got kind of tired of trying to figure it out. I am amazed as well that the Honda dealer I went to seemed pretty unaware of the extent and commonness of this problem.
Seems to me that Honda has an issue of a design flaw that they are just muddling through with until they can produce a better transmission for future models. They seem a bit lost as to how to really fix it, and I question whether new transmissions really mean much in this case, just my opinion.
I will also echo the 35 to 42 MPH, because that is all we really get. As far as I know a regular Civic will probably give you 35+ if you're careful, so what is this with the sticker at 47/48. I never saw that on a tankful.
My Hybrid says its time for a transmission fluid change. I called the Local Honda dealer for their price $89.95, which includes just draining out the old and putting in 3 new quarts of CVT Fluid. Or I could Buy 3 qts from Them at $15.95 Per QT! With my Car Buyer Discount ( 10% off List Price). I also asked about some Honda Antifreeze as I have a Odyssey that I maintain and they wanted $15.12/gal. I just Settled for 2 Drain Plug Washers for $1.74 Each. And Walked Out! What Nerve these People Have! Anyway, I found a Online Dealer through the pages here. Try:
www.bernardiparts.com
The CVT Fluid was $6.77/qt (and I got 6 qts just in case I do the double draining)
Antifreeze $9.99/gal
Honda Brake Fluid $3.58
Shipping was $12..77
total: $66.99
Still Better than $89.95!
Damn Car Dealers :mad:
Kevin in CT
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid
2003 Honda Odyssey
2003 Honda Civic Hybrid SOLD in 2006 for $16K with 50K miles
I had "judder" three years ago in my '03 HCH and they would only agree to double change the transmission fluid in 2005. As I was about to trade the vehicle in, the used car evaluators (three dealerships) drew the judder to my attention, and reduced the value accordingly--except at Honda, where they told me is was under warranty. I have an eight-year all-parts extended warranty which covers the CVT also.
Last week I took it in to have the clutch replaced. They told me it would be a day-long job. Then, they corrected that to two days, which was OK with me,since I have another vehicle. It was three days before it was ready.
I picked it up and drove 15 miles. I worked beautifully. Then the transmission started to slip; next the engine light came on and it failed on the highway in less than a mile!. They towed it back to the garage for me. My HCH has only 30000 miles on it! Any advice for me?
Here is the problem,
My car has 124,000 miles on it and has been having the shudder at statup problem since 66,000 miles. When I first brought it into the dealer for the problem they told me it was the EGR valve and also that I needed to change the transmission fluid $400 for the EGR vavle and $440 for the 60,000 mile service which include "special transmission fluid". I asked about my 7 year 100K warrany and she looked it up and said I was covered for the EGR but not the 60K maintainence. Sounded expensive but fair to me. Since then I have had my car in 3 times in the last 60K to have the fluid changed at $66 a change. It is shuddering again so I called American Honda.
So far what they want to do is have me bring the car in for a diagnostic check to see if the problem is the transmission and pay for it and then they will determine on a case-by-case basis if they will reimburse me for the repairs and diagnostic.
My point and problem is that they should have fixed it properly at the 66K mark and then when I brought it in each time for a transmission fluid change. and not tell me that they are sorry I am out of the warranty and I will have to be taken care of on a case by case basis.
Any suggestions?
Had the same problem starting at about 65,000 miles, did the EGR thing also. Problem continued. 2nd time in they said it was motor mounts, so I had to pay the $100 for the diagnostic and $50 deductible on extended warranty. Problem continued. Did the transmission flush also. Problem continued. After receiving my notice I also called in for some relief (good will consideration) and got the same lame answer. I've already paid Honda once for a WRONG diagnosis, I don't think I should have to pay again, especially with no guarantee they will do anything for those of us outside the 100K mark. In my opinion they intentionally dragged their feet on this problem to avoid responsibility. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure the probability that many of us would be outside 100K by now. I'm thinking the only option left may be to lodge a complaint with the national highway safety agency at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ . I don't know what else to do at this point. I'm totally frustrated with Honda and this vehicle. What's worse is that the transmission is also slipping at higher speeds - a much more dangerous problem.
:lemon: :lemon: :lemon: :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
However Honda does know they have a problem with the transmissions and are hiding behind legalities as the Customer Service Rep has told me "It's not a safety issue" so there is no recall. Obviously he doesn't drive this car. It is also interesting to see that Honda had a problem in Japan and took care of it there and if you read the NTSB Bulletins on the links below they are hiding behind the letter of the law to keep from helping their American customers.
Links to NTSB
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Foreign%20C- - - ampaigns/2003/F-Campaigns/FRCL-03F075-4164.pdf
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Foreign%20C- - - ampaigns/2005/F-Campaigns/FRCL-05F063-4277.PDF
I am very happy with car, the mileage and the CVT. I tested the Dodge Caliber when it was introduced and hated the CVT in that vehicle. The HCH CVT seems much more sophisticated, and very smooth.
However, there are well documented problems with the phase 1 (up to 2004? 2005?) HCH CVT.
Has anyone experience the same problems with the phase 2 models? Was the transmission part of the re-design? Will the 2007 CVT experience the same problems?