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They could fix both problems by using better piston rings and by redesigning the exhaust system (use a better catalytic converter and move it farther away from the engine exhaust ports). Other than that, it seems to be a good engine. The engine block is cast in Mexico, it says so right on the front of the block next to the crankshaft pully. The crankshaft comes from somewhere else, and the engine is assembled in the plant in Decherd Tenn.
Ncage
As far as power goes, the 2.5 is great for my uses, should have very good econony and when attached to the CVT trannie, is very smooth comfortable. I have wanted this car for a long time and I wish I had the money to go for the fully dressed car but I can't really complain. I am fortunate to have this one and I will enjoy driving it as long as peices do not start to fall off and systems fail. I sure do like some of the little goodies that were not pointed out to me like the "Aux" button on the stereo which allows me to play an ipod through the speakers as well as a GPS. Neat stuff.
Thanks for the help.
E.D. ISF
Just today I began researching on the internet and found you folks and others
with the same type of problem. Today I found the car had been purchased in 2002,
had a record of being serviced once in 2003, was traded into The Nissan / Toyota
dealer in Sept. of 2007, ( possibly because it was burning a lot of oil?) apparently it passed an emission test before it was resold to me. How can they do this?
They had to be aware before disassembling the engine what the culprit was,
Nissan is placing the burden on me for there problem, now want $1,000 more
for a car that needs $4,000 to make it a car I thought I was buying in the first
place. Should I cut my losses? This stinks! Count me in on any bandwagon also!
I think you need a lawyer, unfortunately. This sounds very wrong, unless there are parts to this story we don't know yet. I can understand (but don't agree with) why Nissan might not step up to the plate on the original warranty, but I can't understand why your extended warranty doesn't cover it.
Mr antiochnissan, you situation sounds bleak, you need legal help, see an attorny, print out all these posts and anything else you can find on the internet, get as much documentation as you can.
I've got my daugthers 2002 Nissan Altima 2.5S with 100,900 miles, engine torn down right now, with the head in the machine shop getting a valve job and resurfacing. I've got 313 digital pictures showing the teardown of the engine. I'm lucky the cylinders look OK in her car, I think it was drove hard enough that the precatalyst material was blown out of the precatalyst through the exhaust pipe to the second catalyst under the center of the car right before the muffler. It then plugged the cat under the car, which I took off and unplugged. Since the material was forceably blown out of the precatlyst, it may have partially saved the engine from so much of the precat material being blown back into the engine.
I think this whole engine failure situation is getting rediculous, we need to get some reliable numbers on how many of these incidents are occuring, and how many is too many? Nissan is apparantly not going to do anything about it, and their dealers seem to be dumping these cars onto innocent unsuspecting people. We need to get together and do something about this situation. We need get the word out on these cars, to prevent people from being victimized by these faulty engines! How bad is this going to get? Is Nissan just waiting and hoping that enough time will pass and that this situation will just blow by? How many people have been victims of these engine failures, and how many more will there be? How many years and/or miles out can from the manufacturing date can you go and still have cause for legal action? If anybody can help or have suggestions, please chime in. I'll help anyway I can.
E.D. ISF
I don't really think we should really blame Nissan for the problem. If you go to other threads, Lexus ES, Camry, Acura TL, you will see diff. problems there. I think there're always numbers of defect cars in the manufacturing process, That's why most manufacturers only offer 5 years warranty because they know that there's a better chance that a car needs some kind of repairs after that period.
That's why the previous owner dump the car after 5 years/ (s)he rather pays more money upfront by buying a new car and then doesn't have to worry about the repair bills.
Usually, the used car dealers are the problems. They look at the car, know the problems, buy it LOW from the previous owner and then turn around try to sell that car at retail to an un-educated consumer. My .02.
Thats probably the truest thing I've read in a long time. I became so disgusted with used cars that 15 years ago I refused to ever buy one again. I'd much rather buy a brand new kia rio for 10k + 100k warranty than roll the dice on a 3 or more year old car.
The compression reading sounds low, how were they taken? They should be taken with the battery fully charged, all spark plugs out, and Throttle wide open (if you have drive by wire, the throttle should be physically blocked open). I would expect cylinder compressions of over 140 psi.
So far so good, she called and said it is running fine. I want it keep running that way for a couple of more years till she can get another car, NOT a Nissan!
Good Luck and Merry Christmas to all of you,
E.D. in Sunny Florida
p.s. to jd10013 - I understand your concern about not buying used cars because it is a gamble and you may inhierit someones problems, BUT I only buy used cars and I am very sucessful at it because I do a massive amount of reasearch before a buy a vehicle. My cars all go over 200,000 miles with no major problems. The Nissan Altima in this post, I DID NOT BUY, nor would I have bought. My daughter made the descision to buy it and she was very adamant about getting one, because she liked the "new look". I think she has learned better by now, because next time I won't be fixing it, she will have to pay to get it fixed.
Back to my cars, I research for reliable vehicles that fit my needs, usually 5 years old with 80,000 to 100,000 miles and with a good deal. I do all my own servicing and repair work.
My current vehicles - a 1997 Ford Explorer XLT 5.0L V8 with AODE auto transmission 2wd with 160,000 miles -run great, and a 2000 Ford Explorer XLT 5.0L V8 with AODE auto transmission 2wd with 148,000 - runs great.
My next vehicle - probably a 2004 Toyota Highlander.
Occasional problems on this vehicle are failures of the Crankshaft Position (CKP) and Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensors and screws falling out of the intake manifold Power Valve on the 2.5L engine. Failure of the CKP Sensor or the CMP Sensor may cause the engine to stall, and may cause the Check Engine Light to illuminate. When the intake manifold Power Valve screws fall out they enter the engine through the intake manifold and can damage the spark plugs causing the engine to misfire or may damage the engine block.
Good Luck,
E.D. in Sunny Florida
Thank You again
Raymond, In windy California!!!
I would not recommend to blindly change sensors and parts without proper diagnosis, you will be throwing away time and money.
There are some common problems that can cause the engine to run rough or badly and NOT throw a code, any vaccum leaks, like leaky or broken vacuum hoses, leaky intake gaskets, leaky fuel injector seals, etc or any air leak in the air intake duct between the MAF (Mass Air Flow Sensor) and the throttle body. Pull the entire plastic intake duct off the engine and inspect it carefully for and leaks, cracks, holes, and be sure everything fits securely when installed.
Also check the fuel pressure at the fuel injector rail and monitor the fuel pressure to be sure it remains constant while driving. If there is a problem with the fuel pressure, check the fuel pressure regulator, Fuel Pump Relay, and lastly check the fuel pump and filter (located in the gas tank, asscessable through a cover under the rear seat/truck area0.
There are a few other things that could cause problems, but the possiblities are remote, and I don't want to lead you to "chasing your tail".
Good Luck,
E.D. in Sunny Florida
Thaks again!!!!
Good Luck,
E.D. in Sunny Florida
Unfortunately, for me the problem has already occurred but I've seen some postings on the internet saying that even the recall didn't fix the problem.
Anyways, I took in my car to the local dealership and they said something was leaking into something that causes the engine to use up too much oil. Bottomline, they said I need a new engine. I asked them if this was a common problem, and they said I had a unique problem, and that it was very rare. I told them ok, and in other words manufacturer defect. I told them to replace it and pay for it since my car is only at 100500 miles. And in addition to this I've brought my car in several times before that (month after month including the month the problem occured) and at most times paid them on average over $1000 to fix a problem. And if I remember correctly, this problem occurred approx 23 days after dropping over $1000 for them to work on another problem. Anyways, as you expected, they did not want to pay for it.
So I have case with corporate and its in a waiting for the customer to call status. Actually, they've been calling me early in the morning when I'm still sleeping knowing that they won't talk to me. But I've done my part and called them back 4 to 6 times a day and left a message but they've never called me back twice in a day.
Anyways, I've been out of town on work and vacation and just got back, so I'm going to address this issue.
This is what I'm going to do. I am going back to the local dealership and make one last attempt to have them fix my car at their expense. If they refuse, I will have them give me a detail description of what the problem is. And also a detail description of what they've done to my car in the last 6 months. Then I'm going to tell them that that nissan armada I was planning to get in 2008 will be something else, non nissan (seriously, I am planning to get an armada). Then last but not the least, I'm going to tell them that I will take them to court. It's about time someone slapped this company on the face to take ownership of these issues.
Anyways, I've been frustated like most of everyone on this forum
Has Nissan issued a major recall on Altima 2002 engines yet to address this problem ?
Regards, C Zander
Regards, C Zander
First, you don't need to post the same messages 2 or even 4 times to make your point.
Second, I just don't see why Nissan should pay for your repairs as your car isn't under warranty any more. I think it's a problem if they try to deny to fix your car if the car is still under warranty. There're defect cars with any manufacturers. Cars are not designed to last forever that's why most manufacturers only offer 5 years warranty.
That being said, I understand your frustration, as all the Nissan Altima owners here with problem engines are equally upset. I'm sure everyone here expects the engine in their car to last over 100,000 miles if taken care of properly, regardless of the warrenty. I always expect my engines to last over 200,000 miles, and they do, because I always fully research and buy only vehicles that are known to be RELIABLE, and I take exceptionally good care of them. I DID NOT buy this 2002 Nissan Altima 2.5s, my daugther did, and I am trying to help her out. Her fight is MY fight! The Factory Warranty is needed to protect the customer because in mass production, there are bound to be some mistakes, and the warranty should protect the customer from such mistakes. But I believe that all modern vehicles have a "reasonable lifetime" based on the modern design practices, materials and technology of today. But the responsibilty of the Manufacturer ends at the end of the warrany, unless some sort of legal action could prevail against them (I'm not an attorny, so I can only give my opinion on that). I have been on many Web Sites about this and I have not yet heard of any attorny, action or court case prevailing against Nissan concerning these beyond warranty Altima engine issues yet. Nissan is apparantly NOT going to do anything about the problem, other than to tell you to check your engine oil level, maintain all required service and to keep the engine oil filled up to the proper level to "avoid an engine fire". How comforting that is! So, to build a case against Nissan, it would seem to me that you would have to prove a reasonable expectation of how long the engine should last, and somehow hold them to that, even if beyond the warrany period. The warrany period is legally defined, and as far as Nissan is concerned, that is how long the engine, transmission and the rest of the car is supposed to last. I am hoping that a sharp attorny, or team of Attornys will arise and file a class action lawsuit for the Nissan Altima Owners against the Nissan Corporation and prevail in this case using something like a basis of Nissans faulty design of the Altima's engine and exhaust sytstem, causing damage and suffering to it's customers. I have suffered enough with my daughters 2002 Nissan Altimas 2.5S, it has caused me much pain, suffering, time, money and has changed my life forever. This problem is now occuring on many of these Altimas everywhere, I am hearing about it every day all over the internet, more and more every day. If this gets large enough, I'm hoping it will attract national attention, and that some sharp attorny, or team of attornys will take an interest in persuing a lawsuit, if it looks like he or they might be able to prevail. I've been ready to jump on the bandwagon for a long time.
To all that are reading these current posts (messeges), much has been said and posted here about all these problem engine issues in this Forum. If you have not done so, please read all the posts in this Forum from begining to end. That's going to be about 147 posts in this Forum so far. I started posting in this Forum with Messege #75 and on. Please read them if you can.
I sincerely wish good luck to all of you. May the Force be with you!
E.D. in Sunny Florida
Nissan told me the cause of the problem is the catalytic converter went bad and the internal parts started breaking down into very small pieces. After that happens once you start the engine the initial suction on the exhaust system sucks the small pieces into the engine. If you don't have the converter replaced immediately after it goes bad
it will damage the engine thus leading to oil consumption, noises, and possible loss of power. Nissan told me the only way to fix this problem is to have the engine replaced.
The service tech on the phone admitted this is a common problem with these vehicles.
Something needs to be done about this and Nissan needs to deal with it.
So write your Attorney General and inquire if there is something already in progress so you can be included. Also include your story, your receipts and any statements, storys or websites that have posted complaints by others you can find on the internet. Good luck ~
Clearly, Edmunds needs to have a database that also generates letters automatically to these state agencies and business bureaus. Many associations and lobbiests use these types of sophisticated sharable/exchange databases. I'll write Edmunds with my suggestion -- it certainly would be word $9.95 per letter just to be heard!
I will take your thougths into consideration when constructing my letter to the Attorney General (and copy Nissan) and inquire if there is something already in progress. Also will include your whole story, receipts and any other statements, stories or websites that have posted complaints by others.
I've recommended to Edmunds -- to offer a database that services this process and generates letters automatically to state agencies, business bureaus, etc. Many associations and lobbiests use these types of sophisticated sharable/exchange databases. It certainly would be worth $9.95 per letter to have some confirmation that the information we are spending minutes compiling would be put in the hands of those who could do something with it sooner than later.
thanks again ~
You can contact each other through your carspace email accounts and/or you can make your email address public in your profile. Doing either of those things provides you with a much higher degree of safety than posting any information on a public webpage such as this.
Please also understand that we can't support solicitation for class action suits. We understand that there are reasons you'd like to be in touch with each other, but please don't associate it with anything that can be construed as solicitation for legal action. Take it off the boards.
Thanks!
Concerning you car smoking, I assume that this smoke is coming out the tailpipe. Has this been verified to be smoke and not steam? Usually a cracked or leaking head will cause radiator coolant to leak into the engine, causing steam out the tailpipe, and cause combustion gas to leak out the radiator and also cause the radiator coolant level to go low, with the radiator coolant mysteriously disssapearing without any noticable leaks. I just had to remove and replace the head on my daughters 2002 Altima 2.5S, the head was warped and had to be milled, but no cracks in the head, just leakage past the head gasket due to the clyinder head warpage of .005". It may be possible for a cracked head to cause oil to leak into the clyinder, but it is not common for that to happen. If they pull the heads off, BE SURE that they are sent out to be checked by a reliable machine shop to check for any cracks or warpage. They can detect any cracks by doing a special pressure test and vacuum test on the head. Have Nissan VERIFY that the heads are bad BEFORE they replace them. After the heads are replaced, the cooling system must be flushed clean and new coolant added. The cooling system must be checked to be sure it is operating correctly, including the radiator, hoses, water pump, cooling fans, and cooling fan controls. On the Altima 2.3S I4 engine, the radiator fans come on when the coolant temperature reaches 203 degrees, and the radiator fans cut off when the coolant level falls to 188 degrees.
Let us know what happens with your car.
Good Luck,
E.D. ISF
If you have any questions, just come back here and ask.
Good Luck,
E.D. in Sunny Florida
Any advice?
Thanks in advance!
Hope this helps
The results for me were a complete new engine replacement, 2 new C converters, all done at Nissans expense, because of the recalls and the 80K warranty on C converters.
If you are having the sort of problems I have been reading here it might be a good idea to contact Nissan, give them your VIN#, and perhaps, luck out as I seem to have done.