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New Toyota Highlander Hybrid Owners - Give Us Your Report
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BUT the average mainstream consumers interested in hybrids don't know about these techniques and if they were to go drive these cars, they'd get something similar to CR. And in all fairness, I think if someone were to drive an ICE highlander with these techniques (light acceleration, anticipate stops, watch speed) and had an instant MPG guage, I think conventional cars would also see an increase in MPG- although not the same magnitude as a hybrid.
Getting back to CR- I think it's their job to be as "consistent" as possible when testing ANY car. I think they'd be opening a can of worms if for each car, they "played" to that car's strengths. maybe a reasonable comprimise would be to list the MPG as 22, but have a footnote stating higher numbers can be acheived using blah blah techniques. Maybe as teh hybrid segment emerges out of a niche market, these testing procedures can be modified to reflect the higher percentage of hybrids on the road.
Most people have unrealistic expectation of the HH and set themselves up for disappointment. CR should have added a little blurb about how to increase mileage, that would have done the public a great service. Not sure why they did not bother.
I think mmreid should send CR an e-mail to at least ask them to add that blurb or at least discuss it.
The part of the CR report I find strange, as another post had mentioned earlier, is this foolish focus on ROI. No one ever analyzes the ROI factors in a $40,000 HUMMER, BMW or $60,000 Mercedes, Lexus or Toyota LandCruiser. Everyone just assumes it is "normal" to pay a premium for a "luxury" car.
When it comes to paying a premium for a cleaner car, with a new technology that burns less gas with similar or better performance, suddenly the focus is on whether one can recoup the premium. Suddenly, there is a ton of argument as to why such new technology is unnecessary. I completely fail to see this logic.
I like to ask CR or the anti-gas-electric hybrid crowd what is the ROI on that $40K HUMMER sitting in a suburban driveway that sees at most 1 off-road trip per year if at all? What of that giant Toyota 4x4 Landcruiser or Lexus GX470 sitting on more driveways doing nothing but shuttle children around town? What is their ROI computation? Where is the gas comsumption, emission and price premium analysis?
Most 2007 models, including many of Toyota's models (RAV4, CAMRY, Lexus), now offer ICE engines at 270-hp and up! Where is the "green" in any of these manufacturers? Yet no one says anything.
Strange......
Do you happen to remember what level warranty you picked up? How many years/mileage?
Tks
bob
Since I work at home I knew that I'd never hit the mileage on the extended warranty so I've quite forgotten it. I tend to only put 6 or 7,000 miles per year on a vehicle. I'll have to go out in daylight tomorrow and find the papers in the glove compartment to figure out the warranty mileage. I do remember the 7 years part. Hubby thinks it was 70,000 or 80,000 miles for extended warranty but I'll go see if I can find it in the light of day.
Still haven't heard a peep from Consumer Reports.
mmreid
Have been following other near future models (different makers) but was impelled to make decision sooner than later.
After much research settled on Corolla for MPG figuring later we would upgrade current family vehicle for SPACE.
Sunday April 21 test drove Corolla. Loved it.
Saw HH. Test drove HH. Bought HH! (never considered or researched HH hope I don't repent in leisure)
Did the math & two vehicles (besides 2 we already own) did not make $ense. So bought one that is good for family of 5 & great on mileage.
Dealer filled tank, 0 down still haven't put $ into it.
Very surprised at the little change in insurance cost vs. our beautiful/reliable 1996 Grand Caravan. $3.00 per month higher for HH.
I bought the HH based on: AWD (hilly city. I need AWD in the winter to get home), towing capacity (we have a 15' fiberglass boat), and the hybrid powerplant.
I love the quiet, smooth ride; the incredible electronics; the fit and finish. Our other car is a Subaru Forester (22/27mpg) which is still a great car, but seems like it's from another era compared to the HH.
I have been following this thread for sometime now and finally decided to make a purchase.
I think due to the negative publicity by CR and some other reviews it has helped in being able to get good pricing on this vehicle.
The dealer I went to had many of these in stock and wanted to move them. My inspection sticker was from Feb. so I think he had the vehicle for around three months.
I purchased a Highlander Hybrid with package 1 and an
MSRP of 37082 for 32307!
If you subtract the 2600 credit I bought it for 29,707 which seemed like a great deal to me so I bought it on May 18.
A co-worker bought a regular highlander limited for around 30k at the same dealer.
I really like the vehicle in the past I've had a Subaru Legacy and prior to that I had a Ford Explorer.
We also have a Camry so I new what to expect from this one. I am getting around 23.3 -24.7 miles MPG. Vehicle only has 800 miles on it. I have not had any long trips to check mileage and my work commute is only 10 -12 miles with many hills so the vehicle is warming up part of my commute. I am looking forward to better mileage though.
Thanks to everyone who posts on this site it has helped a lot.
What is with all these wimps saying all the HH needs is a 4 cylinder engine? With all the stupid BMW 330i drivers around here (Seattle area) it is nice to have a vehicle that can keep up with them and thwart their insane lane changing. It cruises nicely well above the speed limits and is pretty quiet.
The NAV system is OK - not as good as my daughter's Honda - and the JBL sound system is OK if you replace the JBL speakers (try the Focals). Some moron engineer made the cover over the drinkholders open backwards - should open left to right instead of vica versa - and the fold down armrests are pretty wimpy.
There is a major flaw with the rear liftgate - it develops creases on either side of the chrome plate across the back. I asked the service manager at the dealership about it and he said he had never heard anyone else mention it, but I do not believe him since I have seen the same thing on 4 other HHs - including 2 from the same dealer. I guess I will have to go directly to Toyota on this issue and see what they will (or won't) do for me.
After looking at the options, we settled on the HH, and haven't had a single day's regret. (We looked at the Vue Greenline, but I'm afraid the 4cyl wouldn't have enough power to move a SUV -- I own a 2003 V6 Vue, and could never have used the 4cyl.)
First impressions: VERY peppy, good handling, and excellent comfort! I love the fact that it's so silent when driving at speed, with little to no road noise. We also love the fact that it starts off with just the Electric Motor to begin with - It was a liottle disconcerting, but my wife has gotten used to it.)
Fuel Economy: We're averaging between 26-30 MPG in 80% city driving, and very happy with that. After reading on several forums that MPG is around 25, we were a little disheartened to see the amazing difference between the EPA estimates. However, after we have learned to adjust our driving habits (Pulse and Glide specifically), we are really getting the hang of higher MPG and have made it into a game to see which one of us gets better MPG when we're driving the HH.
Handling in Atlanta traffic: Excellent. We haven't had any problems at all with acceleration, handling, or anything. (Atlanta drivers can be VERY aggressive, and having a car with good handling is a must to avoid fender benders)
We're currently just a smidge over 1000 miles (after 3 weeks of ownership) and wouldn't trade this car for anything. Very happy with our purchase. :shades:
Cheers!
Jay
Didn't bother to redesign it for the U.S. market where the steering wheel is on the left, unlike the Japanese HL where the steering wheel is on the right.
We think we got the deal of the century as it was nearly $7k off MSRP of $35000, coupled with the $2600 tax credit, that's $9500 off the listed price! They had 2 on the lot (silver & gold), we got the gold.
Love: the quietness, the nimbleness, the horsepower, smooth riding, guilt-free driving & idling, all of the cupholders (too scared to eat/drink in the car yet!), averaging 27 - 28 MPG
Hate: nothing so far...
Wished: the Limited was on sale also because I really wanted leather seats & the NAv system, wished it had the automatic trunk open/close like the Lexus 330
We test drove the Honda CRV, Element & the RAV 4 with the assumption that we'd either get the 2007 CRV or a 2006 RAV4. There was absolutely no comparison to the HiHy with the Hondas. The HiHy drives like butter. I'm certainly not a performance driver (more like a grandma drive) so I can't really comment on the engine performance other than my confidence in passing vehicles on the freeway has accelerated.
We have recommended this vehicle to everyone who is cost & environmentally concious but still wants the flexibility of owning a SUV
The 2007 CR-V 2 wheel drive EX will probably get better highway MPG at 75-80 MPH. I sometimes got over 30 MPG with my 2003, and they now have a 5 speed transmission. BTW, esitmated pricing with Nav, Leather, and back up camera is around 28K. However, the Honda is not indended to drive like the Toyota - different engineering concepts entirely.
So the "green quotient" would also depend upon how much city driving one does...
Please let me know so I can go back to the dealer to have them fix it.
Thanks,
John
I drove the Lexus 400H and just couldn't see footing the extra $ for a little more luxury, a power gate and the Lexus name. Especially since we found a Limited HH with Nav.
We'll see what we say in a couple of months, but so far HH is a nice addition to the family.
http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/autos/reliable/8.html
15,000 miles, coming up on oil change and check and absolutely _no_ problems or complaints. There's an old truism in autos that you never buy a new model during its first year, you'll be buying something without the bugs taken out. Some folks have had problems but sure seems like that's not the experience with most, at least in these forums. - John
Wes
The Hybrid uses a small motorcycle type 12 volt battery to maintain low voltage operations such as the radio, alarm, computer etc. The 288 volt system turns over the gas engine, runs the A/C pump and the power steering. That is why all that would be needed is just a minor charge to start the car, provided that the 288 volt battery was not dead as well.
I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Many people, including myself, have left their Hybrid parked over vacation with no problems.
Off the top of my head, I would guess one of three things as the cause 1) The alarm was triggered 2) The Auto headlights stayed on. The drivers door must be opened with the car off in order to shut the lights off when in auto. I had, more than once, my passenger aka wife remove the key while I was getting stuff out of the back, only to return to the car to shut the lights off. 3) You could have a faulty connection on the 12 volt battery.
BTW you may have to replace the 12 volt "motorcycle" battery. Car batteries don't do so well after a complete discharge.
How many miles do you have on the car? Just wondering if it is the newer models having these troubles or the earlier models. We also have had our HH stored for a week at a time without problems, so not sure what is happening.
Try the "Customer Experience" center line in the link below. It is unclear that they can assist you but at least they may be able to point you to other contacts.
http://www.toyota.com/about/contact/index.html
Please let us know how it turns out.
GOod luck!
Katz is right, if the 12V is disconnected or "dies", the Idle Speed Control must be reset else the car will run the ICE more than normal.
This is beginning to sound like the 12V is indeed the culprit and not the rest of the system. Good news if it is proven so.
We have 24K miles on ours and I notice the 12V gauge is tending very light blue rather than a deep blue (when it was new). I think we will do a pre-emptive maintenance and have it replaced at the next service.
Have a safe New Year all!
Cal
Is resetting the idle speed control after a dead or disconnected battery something that is clearly indicated in the tech manual and something that a hybrid mechanic should know without a doubt or is something that can be easily missed?
I will be speaking to the Service Manager about this next week and I was wondering if he would immediately know what I was talking about or would his response be that I am misinformed?
Sure hope we are not all misinformed. You asked a very good question.
I did ask a local Toyota mechanic about this earlier this year (5000 mi service) when I first read about this "Idle Speed Control" issue on-line. He gave a fairly detailed explanation then and it made sense at the time. I will tell you only what I can remember. It has been 11 months now.
There is an "Idle Air Control System" in the HH. This system controls several valves that regulate air intake which in turn influences idle speed. The car comes with preset data for controlling the valves but it is capable of learning and adapting to actual use. It then keeps the new information in memory somewhere for subsequent use. The computer will keep adjusting this information as the car is being used. This "learned" data is lost whenever the 12V is disconnected or when it dies.
He said that there is really no switch that resets this system. Left alone, the engine computer will relearn all such information after sometime. During this relearning period, the car may get poorer gas mileage depending on engine conditions and driving habits.
He told me that as a courtesy to loyal customers, he will run a Toyota (not just HH) through its paces at various RPM to do a diagnostic. Then he takes it for a test drive at various speed. This is equivalent to a "reset". Even then, it will take actual usage conditions for the engine computer to relearn everything.
I do not know if this matches what other owners have been experiencing. Hopefully someone else can post what they have learnt. As our HH still has the original 12V, we have not had to do any "reset" of the ISC.
We too got a HH late '05 and have been suffering with a "dead battery" problem for the past couple months (not the traction battery, but the 12V battery that starts the car).
We've had it in and out of the dealer throughout December and I just took it back.
One "interesting" comment made to me by the dealer mechanic this morning is that it's a known issue that you cannot let the car sit for more than a day without starting it. For us, if we leave it off for more than a day or two the battery typical dies.
The dealer is contacting Toyota and I'm hoping they replace the battery and/or upsize it.
Good to hear others are not have the same issue...that they can leaves theirs off for days. The whole idea seemed silly to me.
Whoever said this is not an owner and have no clue what he or she is talking about. Ask him to prove it.
Most of us owners will not tolerate such limitation and you can be sure the NHTSA would have received numerous complaints if this were true.
Our HH sat for a week while we were gone on a trip last Winter. The car was out under a tree exposed to rain, some snow and freezing temperature. I forgot to hook up the little solar trickle charger to the 12V but when we got home, it started without a problem. Are we the only special case? I think not.
As long as the 12V indicator shows blue, your 12V is fine. Like all cars, car batteries do die and when they do, we will get a new one and cruise on...
sam71
Wes
Just to be sure, he ran the comment past his Toyota contact who confirmed I shouldn't be having these issues. I didn't realize that the traction batteries actually started the engine...in fact I'm still suspicious. To start the HH when it died, I just put a battery charger on the 12V battery. It takes a good 5 minutes of charging before it starts the engine and there is a load on the charger when I try to start it. Perhaps there is a solenoid it's trying to engage??
In any case, I did have a radar detector installed in the car. I can neither confirm or deny the charger was left on the last time the car died (wife's car) so I just took it out all together. Other than that and a DVD player installed at time of purchase...it is pretty much stock. If it continues to die after sitting for a couple days I'll have to escalate the matter w/ Toyota.
For now I'm going to think happy thoughts and hope the problem was just with a radar detector being left on. (Ok, no one wreck my dream...I know a radar detector has minimal draw - but this will be my "happy place" until it dies again )