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Is that Cadillac's new mission? To provide the trappings of luxury at affordable prices? The Hyundai Genesis is better positioned to do that, I think.
??? Caddy has always had affordable lux vehicles. I do not see that as changed. The CTS is more affordable than the smaller 3 series and much more than the 5 series. Just the way the mission has always been.
Do you have anything to back up the BRX or XLR claim? What will be the competition for the BRX, seeing as CTS competition is so tough to define?
You're not exactly an objective source either :P
Perhaps not but my info is better than any car mag and rumor mongers :surprise:
Tyr and point out where I have been wrong with my data :P
Perhaps my term "affordable lux" is wrong. How about more for the money than the competition? CTS is as good as the competition but does not get the higher bucks because of a lack of brand equity?
Where does the information on these future models come from?
More for the money, exactly, this is more positive, and Caddy has indeed pissed away so much brand equity. There is room to capitalize on this, but the work is far from done, even with the much improved new CTS. I guess I can look at so many Caddys from the past 25-30 years, and I still want to see greatness before I believe it.
Both Car and Driver and Consumer Reports placed it below the Camry and Accord (although both still praised it highly). Also, read Patrick Bedard's rather eye-opening editorial on the Malibu in the newest issue of Car and Driver. He puts the hype into perspective.
Read it. Really said nothing except that GM has had vehicles that have gotten high praise in the past and they did not suceed. Very true and could happen again.
As far as CR and C&D, I said article after article discussed the merits of Malibu being better. I did not say every article said Malibu was better. The preponderance of articles do have the Malibu higher than the Accord/Malibu and I guess we could list them all but I would rather not. Lets just say Malibu is a very good car and is doing very well.
Has Cadillac ever really been a world class car? Before World War Two (WWII) my Cadillac history book does not show any "export" models. After WWII there is an export sedan listed as being in production from 1949 through 1960. Sales were about 400 per year until the last couple of years when they dropped off. Obviously some standard Cadillac models might also have been exported, but my guess is that only a few hundred Cadillacs were sold outside of the North American market annually. After WWII the European industry was more or less bombed out, so the US automobile industry was a defacto "world class standard". In the short run the US automobile industry was helped by not having to rebuild. The European industry, because they had to rebuild, could design new stuff.
Before WWII, Cadillac had competition in the North American market. I don't think Cadillac was really the best America had to offer. Early Cadillacs were mid-priced cars. In the Thirties, the V16 Cadillacs were the best Cadillac had to offer and perhaps were not matched by anything that Pierce, Packard or Lincoln had, but very few of the V16's were sold.
I think there is a consensus here that Cadillac has not been the world class standard since the 1960's. During the 60's very few Cadillac were exported, and most of them were probably used at US Embassies.
So, I conclude that if Cadillac was ever "world class", it must have been the V16's that did it. However, I don't think building another V16 will return Cadillac to a world class status.
I think for Cadillac to become a world class standard, Cadillac's will have to sell in sizable numbers outside of the North American market. At the very least they will have to sell in the European market. Why anyone in Europe would want a Cadillac instead of a Mercedes, BMW or Audi is not clear to me. Of course the converse of this question is also true: why anyone in the US would want a Mercedes, BMW or Audi is not clear to me with the extra costs of owning them and the lack of service available (the nearest dealers to me are >300 miles away).
BMW has been consistent with the 3, 5 and 7-series models, but they bring the 6-series into production for a short time and drop it, only to bring it back again.
I don't see that the XLR is worth much to Cadillac. It is basically a Corvette. If Cadillac had really built the Evoq, then they might have had something. The sigma platform was not designed to include the Evoq though.
Finally, Cadillac's success in the sixties is probably was led to their demise. With too many people driving Cadillac's, and with imports available, people looking for a car to make a statement with were choosing something else. Cadillac's problems with engines in the 80's did not help either.
Can you do this while attempting to maintain Cadillac as the Standard of the World, compared to MB and BMW, as the topic suggests??????????... :surprise:
That is one thing Lutz brought to GM. They are truly becoming world wide products. Of course not all products will be sold worldwide.
Identical Enclaves and LaCrosses will be sold in China and NA but not anywhere else. Mostly because China has the Buick history. The Lucerne replacement may also be sold there but I am not sure.
All Cadillac models will be sold world wide.
Pontiac is NA only and will remain that way BUT some models will be sold elsewhere under different nameplates. The G8 is a good example. Of course the next G6 replacement will be either engineered as RWD in Austrailia or FWD in Germany. The small RWD pontiac will also be engineered in Austrailia but again only the Pontiac nameplate will be sold in NA. There will not be much more to Pontiac.
Saturn is shared with Opel and only sold in NA.
Saab is world wide.
Chevrolet will also be world wide but only certain models correct for certain markets will be shared.
XLR??????? WTF? Come on, GM changes names like a baby changes diapers. There is no brand loyalty!
The Escalade was introduced in 1999 as a rebadged Tahoe. What else is new?
A standard has a base of reference. Caddy lost that.
Regards,
OW
I guess those alphanumeric names seem more "sophisticated" to today's sensibilities and those old long drawn out names seem quaint.
yep, quaint and out of date. It's a new world and tech is in. How many high end products have names today? I can think of a couple like iPod and iPhone but not many others. I cannot think of any high end names except Porsche and Lambo's in the car world.
Might be out of date but these are some of MY standard terms for REAL U.S. cars. They are only out of date because they were not supported...oh,wait, the Corvette and Mustang were and guess what?? They sell because they are the best in their class since they WERE supported.
There is enough tech in a 'Vette to make it world class which is a car that has roots dated back to the 1950's. How quaint is that? No Caddy does this, don't you agree????
Regards,
OW
The Corvette has only gotten better though, although the XLR has not done it any real good.
I think that for Cadillac to regain a world wide recognition of being a "good" car, Cadillac will need to design cars that "work" in other markets besides the North American market. The trick will be to design something that "works" in North America if it works elsewhere.
AAAHHH!!!! Names soothing the palate like a fine wine!!!
However, there is more to the car than just a name. When you look back at some of those nameplates I think that a new car HAS to evoke memories of the old cars, or they are doomed to fail. Take a look at the GTO. Excellent performing car, decent value, yet NOBODY liked it. Why??? Perception was that it was an Austrailian car w/ a "nametag" slapped on it (which it was).
Now, I disagree about the Impala, as in the late '50's till it was discontinued, it was the "All American Family Car" whether in coupe, conv. or sedan. So, even as a FWD sedan, thats fine w/ me, as it can evoke memories of what it was. On the other hand, the Impala SS is where I would have a problem. It should be a RWD coupe or conv. only.
As for the future of the STS/DTS, Taylor confirmed that Cadillac is working on consolidating the two. The new car will benefit from CTS-esque styling and will cater to a younger crowd. As far as size, the new car will rival the BMW 7-series, but will be priced like a 5-series. The new sedan will use a rear-wheel drive setup — with all-wheel drive a likely option — but Taylor failed to mention when we might see the new vehicle on the road.
We also asked Taylor about the future of Cadillac's SUVs. It's no secret that the Escalade is one of the most popular SUVs on the market, but the upcoming CAFE regulations mean that it can't continue on unchanged. Cadillac has acknowledged this fact, but is still searching for the best solution. However, Taylor hinted that the brand could be considering a diesel version of the Escalade. The move to a diesel Escalade seems to make sense, as GM could use the diesel powerplants from its line of pickup trucks, and it would net better fuel economy.
But overall, Cadillac's range of SUVs will likely be shrinking in the next few years. Taylor says the Provoq concept is an accurate depiction of the future of Cadillac SUVs, and that the brand will be launching a vehicle to compete with the likes of the BMW X3 and Infiniti EX 35.
Along w/ the days of getting filters, plugs, PCV valves, wires etc. from them.
Rubber? :surprise: :sick:
Hey, gotta practice safe oil changes when you plug the hole :surprise: :surprise: :surprise:
I hope not...
They are throwing out that CTS Coupe, which is pretty cool... But really, how hard is it to keep everything the same and cut out 2 doors.
Way to go design team!
Regards,
OW
And I read somewhere else the Clintons are aliens.
and their looking for the $100,000 price tag on the new Vettes. It could happen by 2010. not base. but yea on the top of the line versions
On the otherhand, in the current market place, Cadillac probably does need some sort of sports car for image purposes. However, a clone of the Corvette does not seem like quite the right image to me. I think that if Cadillac could do something with the basic Camaro platform and design a sports car using that platform as the basis, then they might have something.
Standard retractable hardtop Check
Swanky interior with lots of dead trees Check
Optional Supercharged Engine Check
Interior not quite swanky enough for above mentioned entry of admission Check
Still eyeing used XLRs though...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
But perhaps a used bargain, they seem to be depreciating even worse than the high end SLs....and wait til those get the facelift. Nothing kills MB value like a new model.
According to Motor Trend, the first car to bow on the merged platform will be the 2011 Cadillac STS/DTS replacement. Following that car's launch, the new platform will underpin several other models.
Not bad but still can be improved IMO.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Certainly not lack of willpower. GM does not pay any gaz guzzler fines and has decided not ever to. Most all those V8 vehicles in the lux segments pay CAFE fines and are happy to do it. MB spent $30 million in fines in 2006. I know they (bmw/MB) have said they will use new technology to increase mpg but it will take a lot too almost double their vehicles mileage. This is assuming that most of their cars will have to get over 36 mpg to meet CAFE. Of course their are their diesels but the conversation here is about GM not building a premium gas V8.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/31/nhtsa-releases-06-cafe-fines-daimler-chrysler- - -takes-cake/
GM has decided that with the big jump in CAFE they cannot afford to develop a new engine platform that will either not be able to be used in a few years or take the fines. I would think they would be better off developing a premium diesel.
I guess the big question is will congress increase the fines on those who really cross the line with fines year after year? On one hand you could say go ahead and fine the vehicles and let the customers pay the fines (which is what most in government do now when they buy their lux vehicles and they certaqinly do not want their BMW's taken away). Or get really serious about it and make the fine so high that few can afford to pay it. Again I doubt that will happen because that would effect those in power.
So in the end there are just too many unknowns out there. GM will utilize the 3.6L platform and use forced induction and hybrid technology to increase power and gas mileage. And hopefully get a diesel.