Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Here are the kinds of "driver's cars" that appeal to me (in approximate ascending price":
Honda Civic
Mazda 3
VW Jetta
Acura TSX (especially previous model)
G35/37
A4
C-series
3-series
Where are the US nameplate options for ANY of these? A huge market of high profit vehicles - refined and of quality. NOT Cobalts or G3s. GM and Caddy - here is a big opportunity - why can't you do this?
For Cadillac to succeed I think they need the combination of being 10% better than the competition's models at a 5-10% lower price.
If I were Cadillac I'd also stop scaring customers away with the high MSRP, and then letting the dealers tell about the rebates and the reduced prices. Cadillac should put on their sticker the low, low price to start with. Stop scaring away the customers in the first place!
And you've also admitted that the Caddies from the 80s can't hold a candle to the Caddies from the 50s & 60s when it comes to style & cachet. You've made it crystal clear that you would swap your '89 for a '69 in a nanosecond.
There's a good reason why we think of the 80s as a dark age for Cadillac. It was during that time that the premium German brands punched Cadillac's lights out & seized the heart of the luxury market. By the end of that decade, Lexus, which was then preparing to enter the U.S. luxury market, was focused exclusively on the Germans. It didn't even consider Cadillac to be a serious rival. Ouch!
Twenty years later, Cadillac still hasn't recovered.
In addition, I have a problem with General Motor's lack of innovation (compare the Toyota Prius with any of GM's hybrids) and inability to compete. Too many of their cars lack refinement as well. Some of them have caught up, but why did it take 35 years ?
It kind of makes me believe that GM just gave up on competing in the U.S.A. and decided it was good as a test track and that's it, because they had or have continued success in other countries.
1. GM is not run by car enthusiasts, it's run by financiers, with the exception of the CTS and new Camaro. And you see how nice those cars are.
2. IT would cost GM more money that what the cars could sell for new, to make cars like what you mentioned. That's why they have Chevrolet Aveos and Cobalts, etc. They bring those cars into the market to try and compete. They don't even make those cars. They're cosmetically engineered cars made in Korea.
They did try what you mentioned. It was called the Cadillac Catera. It was a cosmetically engineered German Opel. A decent car in Germany, but once GM got their hands on it, they ruined it.
The CTS turned out to be a success, but it was a huge gamble and cost an unbelievable amount of money to produce and market, and also required GM to release more power to designers, assembly line people and engineers; the big wigs that sit behind their mahogany desks and get chauffeured around, didn't have as much say so for the CTS project.. That's how the CTS got built. It was born from the minds of car enthusiasts instead. That's what we need.
People that drive the kind of cars that you and I like, are car enthusiasts. Floaty "boats" don't do it for us. Floaty boats used to be a huge market for GM, but the generation changed and they were not ready for it. On top of that, they were unable to change, because their business infrastructure made it near impossible
_________________________________________
caddilist wrote :
"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!plus iam a millionaire
and love cadillacs!! i might be the avenging angel for GM!!!pick on yugo or
dawoo NOT! cadillac....
And I don't know about you, but I do my homework before I buy a car. I don't buy them just based on style.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
They will always end up second-tier at best. The Camaro rated only 4 stars in the frontal offset crash test.
I'm afraid we will wait a long, long time before their cars are acclaimed as the best in the world....
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
They will always end up second-tier at best. The Camaro rated only 4 stars in the frontal offset crash test.
****
Yet, Hyundai certainly isn't Honda or Toyota, either. Nearly as good and inexpensive is a great combination in a depressed market.
Oh - GM's officially on record recently as stating that the next gen CTS will be slightly larger and the upcoming small model(no name yet) will be smaller - 3 series sized.
If the strongest claim that he can make for this car is that it's been comparatively trouble-free, then he's pretty much thrown in the towel & conceded that it just doesn't have any style & isn't a top-tier luxury car.
Then again, it's a Caddy from the 80s. Who would expect otherwise?
But why is it that GM will never get it? Is it as simple as saying.."Because starfruit is starfruit and coconuts are coconuts (no pun intended)?
tlong- The reintroduction of the Dodge Challenger and Chevrolet Camaro proves to me that American car companies don't know how to think forward. Those cars look strikingly similar to their 1960's/70's models and SCREAM of the all style and no substance mentality that has sunk GM to the depths that it is now.
A similar thing was done with the Ford Thunderbird and PT Cruisers a while ago. Those were definitely flashes in the pan, so you could be right about the new Camaro.
Can they become great again? 50% market share??
When the cars become great again. Better than Toyota/Lexus, Mercedes/BMW/Audi, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti....not almost as good....in ALL categories.
I agree the G37X is a completely better car AND value than the CTS. I would also choose a BMW or Audi.
My parents had Caddies and they were NOT world standards. Period. The End.
Now that we know they will continue to use platforms from GMC, Buick and Chevy, it's a no-brainer that quick ascent to best in class in not in the cards. Their competition has a way better formula to deliver better products. Hyundai has the best marketing campaign that will grow market share (read:customer loyalty) faster than all others, afaic. GM keeps letting the opportunities rot on the ground! Have they learned?
Remind me of how they will get back all the lost, previous loyal customers. I just do not see it.
Regards,
OW
Then the initial release was fraught with many problems...typical GM. Where is the quality control?
68 Nits That Should Not Exist
First Recall
Owners Forum
Now, that's the GM I know and LOVE!! :lemon:
Regards,
OW
I see NONE of those PT Cruiser cars( well they're not really cars, they're vans) in my neighborhood now and I used to see many.
You should give specifics as to what swayed you to buy a European or Asian competitor car as opposed to the CTS. That would be interesting to know.
The DTS is a lingering dinosaur idea that reminds me of former Oldsmobile buyers and the 1970's Buick Electra 225
Everyone has their preference. Big, soft, suchy luxoliners have their fans too
fixed :P
If millions of others had the same experience, we would not know the names Honda and Toyota, but, like it or not, your expereicne is more unique that even you want to admit...
People did not simply leave Caddy and Lincoln...the automakers worked hard and pushed them away with bad product...millions of Lexus/Infinit/MB/BMW owners can attest to this...
If all the Caddies were made like yours, GM would be profitable...your experience, sadly, changes no one's opinion, because more folks have been burned by the Big 3 than have been happy with them, market share and Bankruptcy seem to prove that fairly convincingly...
lemko, feel free to sing your praises, but you are singing quietly in the middle of a tornado, and no one can hear you...those that can hear you simply do not listen...
And you are comparing it to one data point. My wife and her business partner have had numerous Benzes over the years and neither can claim the horror stories your BIL seems to have. He still has one of the very first CLS500's to roll off the assembly line. It currently has over 180 thousand miles on it. Nope, that is NOT a typo, it really has that many miles. Not a squeek, rattle, or hiccup to be found. Couple of little things over that time, but Mercs reputation is just as strong as ever in his eyes.
And right back at ya, ever owned one?
Years later, I was going to buy a 1986 Mercedes 420 SEL. It needed some work and I changed my mind because I know the way I am about my cars. I'd have sunk a ton of money into it to get it up to my standards that I'd never recover.
I bought my little Subaru Impreza in February of 2007 and it currently has 43 thousand miles on it. Drives like brand new, haven't had a single problem with it. :shades:
Now, when I bought my 1989 Cadillac Brougham, I had a job way out in the suburbs, so I was "reverse-commuting" 24 miles one way and put the miles on pretty quickly. I put 36,000+ miles on my Brougham the first three years I owned it.
It might have been hard-seated, but it could demolish any period Caddy on the track :shades:
Impossible car to restore, to buy a beater and fix it up is like renovating the house on the movie "The Money Pit"
You should give specifics as to what swayed you to buy a European or Asian competitor car as opposed to the CTS. That would be interesting to know.
OK, I'll bite:
I don't like big cars. I don't necessarily need a lot of power, but I do need the following:
0 - not a huge vehicle
1 - agility
2 - engine refinement
3 - sharp steering
4 - good handling
5 - a quality interior
6 - reliability
The vehicles I mentioned (Civic, Mazda 3, TSX, Jetta, A4, 3-series, C-class) all have most of those to varying degrees. I don't see any US nameplates that even come close. A car doesn't need ALL of those factors but it needs to have MOST of those factors. If it is great in most areas then one area can slip a bit. For example, I had an Audi A4 and even though it was expensive to repair and only moderate in reliability, its interior was so awesome and its driving refinement was so excellent that it made up for it.
For example, I have always liked the looks of the PT Cruiser. I finally got one as a rental. After driving an A4, the interior of the PT looked like crap and the driving dynamics were very unrefined. Too bad, as the PT could have been excellent -- but wasn't.
Upcoming Cadillac Flagship Will Share FWD Platform With Buick LaCrosse (Inside Line)
From a business stand point it makes sense. It appeals to many geezers who like that look, and they charge a premium for it.