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Subaru Forester (up to 2005)
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Comments
-eric
First, to clarify (for Juice, among others), the feature of doors locking when turning on the ignition and unlocking when you turn it off is a feature built into most, if not all, aftermarket security systems. While it doesn't seem to have anything to do with security, remember that the keyless entry system controls the door lock actuators, so it's literally a matter of software to make this feature available.
On my '99 Forester, the keyless entry/security was made by Code-Alarm, and I enabled a dip switch in the controller to make this work.
I have since found out that the newer Subaru systems (with the tear-shaped key fob) use ALPINE as the OEM. I went to their website at www.alpine1.com and found tons of technical documentation on the wiring diagrams of all of their systems. Almost every one has this feature.
The problem is, my Subaru service guy, who claims to have done a little research on this, says this feature is not available on the Subaru OEM systems.
What I like to think is that it just isn't documented or supported by Subaru. I know that from quantities of scale, it is more likely that Alpine supplies Subaru with a standard circuit board that one custom for Subaru, and it may in fact have the DIP switches.
So now, I am thinking about tinkering with it and having a look inside. My supplemental manual for the security system upgrade shows the security module BEHIND the glove compartment (next to the pollen filter) but the keyless entry module is still above the driver's left foot. So now I have to look in two places.
If I figure anything out, I'll be sure to let everyone know. Wish me luck to not screw up my 4 day-old car!!!
-Elliot
I'm believing it is a feature of the power locking of the car. When I bought my '98 OB Limited, the door locks when the ignition is turned on. That was how I'd locked myself out the first few days of ownership. And, I don't have factory alarm installed - the aftermarket wasn't in either then.
-Dave
To me it's not worth the extra expense of getting the XS just for the LSD. I thought about this issue and have pretty much decided on the X. In the future i might add on a LSD from KAAZ (they make LSD's for the Impreza which should fit the Forester). I wonder if anyone has gone that way (aftermarket)...
-tom
I borrowed a Mercury Villager to pick up family at the airport. Being a hot day I unlocked the doors, and started up the engine to get the air-con running. On closing the driver door to go around back and open up the rear hatch, the doors locked! I heard the thunk of the locks as I walked to the hatch and my heart fell. Sure enough, I was locked out in the middle of the airport parking lot, 90 degrees out, and my relatives standing around wondering why I was pulling out my hair. It only took 30 minutes for AAA to arrive and get into the car, which by that time was wonderfully cool inside.
On returning the car to its owners, they said they knew of that "feature" but forgot to mention it when I borrowed the car. I suppose if I was familiar with the operation I wouldn't have made the error, but it seems so common to get out of a car with the engine running to do a simple errand.
I've rented cars, Fords I think, that would lock the doors when the transmission is shifted out of Park, I would think that would be more sensible.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Steve (been in the hot sun too long)
I confirmed the operation of the automatic air conditioner on my Bean on the drive hoome last night. When the Intake/Recirc button is pressed to Recirc, the air conditioning level is still controlled by the thermostat. I fiddled with the temperature control after choosing Recirc, and the fan speed and coolness did vary automatically in response to raising or lowering the set point.
Also, the system does indeed default to Intake when the car is switched back on again after stopping.
I wasn't sure yesterday, just wanted to clarify.
Has anyone confirmed the same operation on the new Forester air conditioning?
Steve
You're right. I've been using the term "security system" too loosely. It is, in fact, the keyless entry module that controls the door locks.
Sorry that happened to you. A properly programmed system (like my Chapman in my '99 Forester) will not lock the doors if any door is still ajar. In other words, if I turned the car on while my wife was still getting in, the doors stayed unlocked and I had to lock them manually.
Sounds like you were the victim of poor design!
Elliot
He suggested I call Alpine directly. When I did, they told me they don't have information for OEM systems, and I should call Subaru customer service directly at 1-800-SUBARU3.
So I did, and the Subaru customer service agent was very polite and took down my information and said she'd e-mail technical services and get back to me with an answer! She actually seemed to know what I was talking about, too, so there's still hope!
Here's an idea - if everyone reading this calls their Subaru dealer's service department, someone is bound to know the answer! Just get the wiring diagram for the Alpine keyless entry module listing the optional settings for the main circuit board and we'll be in business!
Thanks!
-Elliot
I'm now back in gee with the Suby crew stuff!!
My wife likes it as a security feature, especially when she walks across a parking lot alone at night and gets in the car. I think it's pretty clear that the advantages are more in her head than anywhere else, but peace of mind is worth something to her and to me...
It does seem more common on aftermarket systems than OEM ones. Seems to be a marketing thing more than anything else...
The rear diffy protector is cheap and offers piece of mind to me. The bike rack only holds two, but go after market if you want 3 or 4. The OE hitch has a 1.25" receiver. You could get an aftermarket hitch with a 2" receiver, for a more universal fit.
An aftermarket LSD costs about $900, FWIW. Plus installation.
-juice
thanks for the reassurance. I've been paying more attention to the shifting now, but it seems okay.
I drained some of the fluid last night, and I plan on getting the whole transmission flushed and the filter changed this weekend. I just called the dealership, they said they don't do tranmsission flushes, only filter changes because they don't have a machine to force the fluid out. I was going to get at least the filter changed, but they were charging $41 bucks just for the part alone. Does anyone know where to buy subaru parts? There used to be that one place that had good prices i think it was called qsubaru or something, but I think they've gone out of business. I've been looking online, but all I find are performance accessories and oil filters, no transmission filters. And none of the local stores in my area carry subaru parts, not even for some of the older models that I thought might have the same filter. Oh yeah, when I called the dealership to ask them, they said the transmission filter didn't really need to be changed and was wondering why i wanted one. I guess that would've been good news if I didn't need one.
and to add my 2 cents. I'd get the rear diff protector. I wasn't sure how useful it would be, but after looking at some of the scratches i have on mine, I feel a lot better knowing it's not the diff taking all that abuse. It's pretty cheap and makes me feel a lot more secure.
My dealer told me that Subaru states that the tranny filter does not need changing. However, he also stated that he personally believes at some point they will start recommending a change. Changing it just makes sense to me especially if it is dented.
Diffy protector is worth the $40, if even for POM.
Greg
Also a drain and fill is what I did on my XT6. So far so good.
-mike
The way the service works is they ask the dealers to quote prices based on an amount or a percentage above or below invoice or MSRP. They may also include stated dealer add ons/fees, which in this area is usually limited to the $50 document fee allowed by Texas law. If the quote is based on invoice, they may also include a stated advertising association fee (always $150 for Houston area). The deal is, they make the quote based on the general vehicle (i.e., 2003 Forester XS), and all options are priced at invoice.
They came back with quotes from 7 dealers in Texas (they guarantee at least 5 bids): 4 in Houston area, 2 in Austin, 1 in San Antonio. Here's the various quotes:
MSRP minus $600 + $295 Protection Package [no, I won't be visiting that Austin dealer]
MSRP minus $1000
Invoice plus $500
Invoice plus $500
Invoice plus $200 + $75 VIN etch
Invoice plus $200
Invoice plus $100
All the bids also had the $50 doc fee and all the bids from invoice also had the $150 ad assoc. fee. The quotes also includes costs for additional fees to locate and trade for a vehicle not in stock, ranging from $150 within 100 miles (yeah, from the same dealer with the protection package), with most being $0 within 100 miles.
I'm going through the low-quoting Houston dealer to get an XS premium with leather. It's working fairly smoothly, though they did try to incredibly low-ball me on my trade-in. I have a friend who is buying the car from me for a fair price, so ultimately it is no big deal. (CarMax also appraised it/offered to buy fairly.) Still, getting low-balled on the trade-in is one of those things that you have to worry about even when you have a guaranteed low price on the new car.
We took it in for service about a month ago and the dealer said that I must have washed the grease off of the breaks. I've never washed anything too well in my life... He says they re-greased them and the squealing stopped.
It's back now. It only lasts for about the first 10 - 15 breaks, after that no squealing. I called back to the dealer and now he is saying that it is normal for Subaru breaks to squeal because they use harder breaks than other cars.
Any suggestions?
Thanks
The cabin and driving position were comfortable. The vinyl/cloth seats (as opposed to all cloth) didn't bother me as much as they did on the CR-V, where they felt cheap. One oddity: I felt like the steering wheel was like a half-inch off the center line of the seat, to the right. Maybe that was just how I was sitting, though.
No complaints as far as handling and braking. Was surprised at how little body roll there is when cornering. Back seats were a little tight but OK.
I found the AT gate shifter odd, although I'm sure it's fine once you get used to it.
Cargo area: I think there's more room in there than it appears from the outside. The seat back didn't quite fold down flat, although it might squish down some if you put something heavy on it. Had to scooch up the front passenger seat to be able to flip down the back seat without removing the head rest.
My only major complaint: acceleration. I got off the line quick enough, but from, oh, say from 15 to 40 mph I really felt like I was lacking oomph. This is kind of an issue for me as I live in an area where the 40-year-old freeways are outdated from an engineering point of view -- and that means extremely short acceleration lanes (on-ramps). It *seemed* more sluggish than my 96 Civic, although 0-60 I'd bet the Forester is actually faster.
But overall, I like it. I've pretty much ruled out the CR-V, so my top contenders are the Forester and Passat wagon, which I hope to try out tomorrow.
One more thing: they had seven or eight 02 L's still on the lot, with the stickers marked down by about $2,000. They're really trying to push the 02s -- the 02s were all in the front lot, the 03s all out back.
(One one more thing: The salesman said there are no plans for a 6-cyl. in the Forester, but he said there is a turbo coming for 04.)
Forester vs. Passat? Most people compare the larger Legacy/Outback to the Passat. I'd be more inclined to compare the Forester to the Jetta wagon, even though the Jetta isn't available in AWD.
Bob
Of course, no MP3
-Dave
With the Passat you benefit from the extra length, but on the other hand living in the city I consider the Forester's small size a plus, as well as of course Subaru's AWD. (If I bought a Passat it would not be a 4Motion model.)
Alas there is no "Forester vs. Passat wagon" thread
Subaru Forrester or VW Passat (probably started by a VW owner, since they spelled the Soob wrong).
I suppose you could ask Revka to unfreeze it, or just settle for the VW Passat vs Subaru Wagons discussion (or just continue in here - what the heck!).
Steve
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Casey: can you ask him to reserve one of those turbos for me? :-)
My wife's 6CD player, which came from a WRX but is likely the same, does indeed play CD-Rs. In fact, that's ALL we play. I don't remember the last CD I paid for.
It is double-din, and fits any newer Subaru. You lose one storage compartment below it (Legacys have two, so you still end up with one, Forester have only one so it's gone).
The harness plugs right in, piece of cake. Then the antennae wire. Took me a couple of hours because I had to run to buy some tools (long and stubby phillips).
I bought a 6CD yesterday and will likely install it this weekend. Installed one in my wife's last week. Strongly recommended. They go for about $150+ on i-Club and eBay.
Passat? You will either pay more or get less content. They are nice, though.
-juice
My advice: test-drive a few different Foresters on the lot, and I bet you'll find one w/o acceleration problem.
you will need an adapter for the factory connectors. 03 Forester's might still be too new for any after market manufacture to supply adapters for, but check around I could be wrong. Talk to the folks at Crutchfield, they should be able to help you out and answer most of your questions. If you order thru them, they send you all the part (wires, adapters, screws, etc)you need with the receiver at no additional charge.
My 98 install was a cinch, although the removable face plate can't be removed because of the way the center console's surrounds are. a minor inconvenience. I am sure you probably wouldn't have that problem by the way the new center console looks.
Good luck
Mike
I am a little surprised that the invoice doesn't look more official, but what do I know? Are these prices in line with what's going on out there for new 2002s?
I kind of doubt that's an official invoice, but I'll let others chime in. The price sounds fair, though.
-juice
Especially if it's the Subaru Distributor for New England, they are notorious for slightl higher prices than invoice elsewhere.
-mike
Does it have his signature on it?
tidester
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I haven't gone to one yet (my 02 Forester only has 1400 miles), but I read many people in i-club.com So Cal forum praise Suby Specialties in Monrovia (http://www.subyspecialties.com/). You might want to read more comments before you go.
Hope this help
-Jason
made an appointment with them next week. I looked on i-club for that info but couldn't find it. All I found was the dealer's forum and parts forum, but no mechanics forum.
only 1400 miles? that's what I put on in 10 days. Where'd you buy it from?
Bought at Marino's Fine Cars in Toronto (ask for Pedro). Got $2,034 cdn off msrp, plus dealer threw in tinted windows (35% tint) and wheel locks. All in all, not a bad deal, I think, and truly a great vehicle to drive.
Also test-drove the 2002 CR-V before buying the Forester. Really wanted to like the CR-V (loyal Honda owner for decades). It was okay, but not as enjoyable as the Forester. Great rear seat accomodations in the cr-v, and I did like the looks of the Honda a little better (Canadian EX-L with leather and heated seats, colored bumpers, colored hard-shell spare cover). What I didn't like on the Honda were the small, almost donut-like 15" wheels, and outrageous dealer prices on simple accessories like fog lights, roof racks, tonneau cover, cigarette lighter and ashtray (all standard on the Forester XS). The deal-breaker, however, was the poor rear visibility in the cr-v, poor front-seat leg and toe room, and my biggest gripe: lack of fun (handling) in the test-drive. Could have gotten $1500 cdn off msrp on the honda, but not enough to sway purchase in its favor as against the Forester.
My only complaint on the Forester: no manual height and lumbar adjustment for front passenger seat. Nothwithstanding, front passenger seat is comfortable and accomodating, though the best seat still remains that which is behind the steering wheel. VROOM VROOM!
Hats off to the fine folks at Edmunds (Town Hall) who have been extremely helpful in my research of compact suv's. I look forward to many, many years of fine motoring in my new Subaru, as well as future discussions and discourses in the hallowed halls of this, the Subaru Community.
-alan
Thanks, Eric
You are right, there is no forum for mechanics. I read about it in "Southern California i-Club Forum -- SCIC".
My daily drive to work is about 10 miles round trip. Maybe I should find a job that is far away so I can spend more time with my Forester.
I bought mine from CarsDirect and picked up from Irvine Subaru.
- Jason
By the way, if anyone's interested in the results of my little Forester/Passat "comparo," I posted it here:
casecom2 "Subaru Forester or VW Passat Wagon" Jun 27, 2002 3:07am
As it happens, a friend of our family is a (trusted) auto mechanic. I've asked him about this as well. His response was consistent with the response from all of the Subaru mechanics I've ever asked: Squeaky brakes can very much be considered "normal." Non-asbestos brakes tend to be harder, and Subaru's OEM brakes are about as hard as they get, and the noise is simply a fact of life.
One thing I can attest about them being hard: I got 50,000 miles out of my front brake pads before replacing them, and my dealer said I could still probably squeak out (no pun intended) another 5,000.
One alternative: my dealer had offered to put on softer aftermarket brakes instead of the Subaru OEM's when I had them replaced, but they would have cost more and not lasted as long.
So far, on my 2003 XS, the brakes are silent as can be.
-Elliot
cdskurat "Forester vs. Outback?" Jun 27, 2002 1:55am
Steve
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However -- and this is a big however -- they rated it "poor" on snow. They called the Geolandar "a worthy choice where winters are mild." That would be a concern here in Minnesota.
These are the same tires that come on the Forester, are they not? Anyone have any firsthand experience with these tires in the snow?
Eric: I'm happy without either of those, but if you can afford it and say, you are a professional ski instructor, I'd spring for them. Especially 'cause you get the heated seats, too.
I believe that wasn't the same tire that goes on the Forester. For 2003, they use yet another tire.
-juice
http://www.tornadofuelsaver.com - Chris
While waiting for a less rabid opinion, you may want to look over these older messages:
The accessories to improve mileage and extend engine life
Tornado Fuel Saver...Hype?!?!?
And the FTC has a link of interest:
Gas-Saving Products: Facts or Fuelishness?
Steve
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