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Good-bye, Honda. I have six Hondas. Never again.
We bought our HCH as a Honda Certified used car from XXXXXX Honda about three years ago. According to the records, we are the second owners of this vehicle. It had about 60,000 miles on it at that time. In the three years we have owned it, we have put on about another 60,000 miles or so. In December of 2008, the catalytic converter suddenly failed and we returned it to the dealer for repairs and an explanation. We were able to resolve the problem, but with an out-of-pocket cost of $736.00. Though we had never had a catalytic converter fail in over 25 years of Chrysler auto ownership, we chalked it up as an unfortunately painful and expensive experience with a used car.
Then from February to May of 2009, we had a series of “Engine” lights that required us to spend about $560.00 (some for “Engine” light-related work again). In February of 2010, we had to pay another $726.00 to replace all of the engine sensors.
A week or so ago, we suddenly started to get an “Engine” light and an “IMA” light at frequent, but irregular, intervals. At the same time, the fuel mileage gradually decreased by about 8 to 10 MPG. The panel lights would come and go, sometimes together, on no particular pattern we could discover. We took the car to XXXXXX Honda for diagnosis, where we were told the battery module was failing and that a replacement would cost approximately $5310.00. They also told us that they did not know what might happen if we continued to drive the car in this state. Apparently, we now own a car that we
• Cannot afford to repair
• Cannot rely on
• Don’t know if we can even safely drive, and
• On which we still have about two years of payments.
The car is otherwise in great shape, according to the dealer. However, We've put enough cash into it (if we throw in the battery) to damned near buy it twice.
I called Honda America today and when I asked for assistance, I was given a polite but firm "No." :mad:
As a result, I'm mailing a letter to them tomorrow. I'm also going to file a Better Business Bureau complaint against Honda America. I may also talk this over with my attorney. From what I'm seeing online about the HCH, they're cruising for a class action suit over these cars. :lemon:
I am the guy who wrote the Home Power.com article (issue 137) on IMA pack rebuilding. I am happy to answer any questions you may have on this subject, but the article covers most everything you will need to rebuild your pack yourself. Paying the Home power fee is a very small price to learn something this useful. And no, I am not being paid to say this either! LOL!
And as far as errors in the article... Ha! they are too small to even be mentioned as significant for a rebuild. Anyone who can follow simple instructions can do the rebuild fine.
BTW, If you had simply been helpful when I asked last year, I may have gone out of my way to keep your info in the article. But since you chose to blow me off when I had questions, I thought the editors choice to delete your info appropriate for the article.
What goes around comes around, you know. LOL!
I just found your posting and felt that you should know that everything you mentioned wrong with your HCH is dependent on the condition of the IMA pack. You see, most of the car's sensors use it as a reference voltage and if the pack has some cells messing up, some of the sensors will seem to as well. When I first got my used 03 HCH it had a bunch of error codes in the computer just like yours has. They all went away after I rebalanced (aka, rebuilt) the pack cells. So fixing the pack also fixes 99% of your other problems automatically.
Dealers dont like replacing IMA packs because Honda gives them a really hard time about it (very expensive for them and the cells are not made by Panasonic anymore and it seem to be hard to get). Your local Honda dealer changed all that other stuff mainly out of ignorance (desperation?) and the fact that Honda will pay them without too much bother for sensors... I will also bet you there was nothing wrong with any of the replaced parts! LOL!
Now that my 03 HCH is working right I love it! 54- 57 MPG every week! Rebuilding is the way to go, I say!
To clarify, for those who scoff at paying $10 to become an online member of Home Power, this gives access to all articles. If you drive a hybrid, you may find this publication interesting. Also, If you aren't motivated enough to pay ten bucks, I doubt if you would actually rebuild your own battery pack anyway.
Michael, is it possible to "plug in" a HCH to top-off the IMA pack? For the purpose of battery conditioning and increased assist / mph due to a full pack.
Also when searching for junk yard buys, do you know the year range of compatible batteries? I have a 2009 we are watching sceptically and documenting for decreased milage. We had an IMA light with code indicating "module deterioration" they "fixed it" with a program update. Currently 29 mpg in city.
Finally, I don't consider a 2003 year model to be that old to require such a rebuild. I wonder if 2003 Prius owners are facing the same difficulties.
Thanks!
I have a HONDA Civic 03 and need to refurbish the battery pack. I am glad to subscribe to Home Power magazine. Is this something that a shade tree person such as myself can accomplish?
I also have Catalitic Converter issues. Any advice on that?
Thanks in advance.
jay Gilliam Raphine Virginia
HELP!!!
The 1433 code has something to do with the IMA circuitry and the 1600 code is a generic code for an IMA battery problem. Considering the age of your car and the mileage I would say you have more than exceeded the life expectancy of your IMA battery and related systems and congratulations on that. You obviously have taken very good care of your car.
The battery probably does need to be replaced but you will have to weigh the cost benefit with the value of your car. At the time I replaced mine it was $1600.00 plus shipping from the above mentioned web site (with exchange of your old battery) but their prices may have changed slightly since then. The refurbished battery comes with a one year warranty. If you go to a Honda dealer it will probably cost you in the neighborhood of $3000.00 or more (depending on where you live and the shops hourly rate) and you will get a two year warranty.
We just replaced lat year the small normal battery pack, WE NOW have this hybrid light on, according to google and my husband it means we will have to replace the 3,000 some battery. One we just had our second child, I am a stay at home mom, reason why we bought an extended warrenty.
Well, They called it wear and tear problem and isn;t covered. It's a expensive battery. We can not afford it, It is our only car. What are we to do?
Any suggestions, We called a honda place and they want us to bring it in and they will look at it, might be covered by the original honda thing, IF it is covered no cost to us. If it isn't we will have to pay a small fee. We can not afford for either because of this time of year.
We get the car service regualry, and everything. All these problems so fast with a new car.
We usually have some money saved but we bought our old house last year and all our money went into that and replairs.
Should this be somthing covered by the warrenty. We even bought an extended one. IT's bull crap, I knew we should of bought a new car.
Thanks for all the advice!
Seriously. I currently drive an '03 HCH and am the second owner. I bought it certified in 2006 and have loved it! That was until 2 days ago when the dealership told me it needed a new IMA battery to the tune of $3600! Wow!
Despite all I've read on the forum (I'm a newbie), my civic has been wonderful. Repair and pain free. Now that I'm more educated from this site re: hybridology, I'm getting a bit worried. The fact that I began to notice a drop in mileage (I still get 38-40 in a hilly town) and a slight "cough" in acceleration about 8 months ago is now beginning to make sense. I've always driven it for best mileage, sometimes hyper-miling and have taken good care of the car. I was lucky enough to contact the original owner who emailed me a spreadsheet of his excellent history and records, so no surprises there. Too bad I lost his records with a computer crash; I have all mine, however, and still have his contact info.
I cannot, no way, afford this repair at this time. I'm considering having the battery rebuilt given the good reports I read about the guys at Hybrid-Battery-Repair. Trouble is, I cannot do the work, so what type of mechanic would I look for to remove and install it for me??
Another BIG question, and I've seen conflicting answers to this question here and on GreenHybrid forums, is "Can I drive my civic WITHOUT the IMA battery in it while it is being rebuilt?"
The car will be paid off in 5 months, which makes this really a bummer! Is it worthwhile to do this repair? I'm concerned about more costly repairs ahead.
All experience and expertise offered will be much appreciated!!
Thanks
My Civic's hybrid battery is dying and instead of replacing it with the Nickel battery pack I was wondering if anyone out there knows about upgrading it to a lithium battery back. Thanks for any advice...
Chuck
Despite all I've read on the forum (I'm a newbie), my civic has been wonderful. Repair and pain free. Now that I'm more educated from this site re: hybridology, I'm getting a bit worried. The fact that I began to notice a drop in mileage (I still get 38-40 in a hilly town) and a slight "cough" in acceleration about 8 months ago is now beginning to make sense. I've always driven it for best mileage, sometimes hyper-miling and have taken good care of the car. I was lucky enough to contact the original owner who emailed me a spreadsheet of his excellent history and records, so no surprises there. Too bad I lost his records with a computer crash; I have all mine, however, and still have his contact info.
I cannot, no way, afford this repair at this time. I'm considering having the battery rebuilt given the good reports I read about the guys at Hybrid-Battery-Repair. I've spoken to them; it could take up to 6 weeks turn-around time. Trouble is, I cannot remove and re-install my battery and I'm thinking the dealer will not do it for me, *** so what type of mechanic would I look for to remove and install it for me?? ***
The car will be paid off in 5 months, which makes this really a bummer! Is it worthwhile to do this repair? I'm concerned about more costly repairs ahead.
All experience and expertise offered will be much appreciated!!
Thanks!! Lila
I am considering buying a re-furbished battery from this company for my '05 HCH and was wondering if someone that has first-hand experience in dealing with them would let me know how that experience went and if they are satisfied or not.
Thanks in advance.
Anyone out there on their 3rd battery? Interested in what the 2nd battery life expectancy is.
So I am totally desperate. I bought an 03' HCH in 07' and put basically all my savings into it. It lasted me about 10 months (about 143k miles on it) and then the hybrid battery stopped working (not sure if its a dead hybrid battery or just a problem). I took it to the Honda dealer and they basically told me it would cost $1,000 for them to do some work to just FIND OUT whats wrong with it. I am getting married in two weeks and strapped for cash and still need a car. Has anyone had a similar scenario? What'd you do? Would it be worth me putting in 2-3k into?
HELP!
Hardly my fault you keep jacking up your prices!
I've only changed prices once - ever.
And as far as errors in the article... Ha! they are too small to even be mentioned as significant for a rebuild. Anyone who can follow simple instructions can do the rebuild fine.
For a few selected types of cell failures, but packs with those problems alone are now few and far between. As far as the mistakes in your methods, I'm not at liberty to discuss them here, but let's just leave it at: years of experience has taught us that hobbyist test equipment is inadequate to find and diagnose most of the problems with these packs.
BTW, If you had simply been helpful when I asked last year, I may have gone out of my way to keep your info in the article. But since you chose to blow me off when I had questions,
Mike, I have a long string of emails between us where I was extremely helpful to you and gave you a great deal of information and time. In fact, the problem was that I didn't have enough time to continue to help you. I did have a business to run.
I thought the editors choice to delete your info appropriate for the article. What goes around comes around, you know. LOL!
Yes, I did a good turn for someone and get shafted. Eventually the Karma will come around to bite you, Mike.
I am totally interested in repairing my IMA battery myself. Can u give me some pointers on repairing this myself?
Thanx.
Dan
btw
can we just sign up and sue the honda and let them replace or pay us back the money for those that repaired already?
something much less expensive to fix. When it comes to IMA battery problems, go
to a reputable, authorized Honda dealer and let them diagnose it.
If you go to Autozone or to an Independent Honda repair/service shop, they will NOT have the
latest technical info from Honda.
Disclaimer: Own 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid (gen1 HCH). Experienced 2 very recent 'IMA
battery problems'. Went to the Dealership both times. And thank my lucky stars that I did.
THANK YOU Pacific Honda (San Diego) and Honda America for doing everything you can to
resolve OUR technically difficult 'IMA Battery Problem '.
Got a Civic Hybrid with IMA DTC P0A80? Update the Battery Software
Currently applies to: '03-05 Civic Hybrid
Got IMA DTC P0A80 (replace hybrid battery pack)? Don't replace anything! The IMA battery software just needs to be updated to the latest version.
To remedy the situation, go back to S/B 10-083, IMA Battery Software and Hardware Updates, and update both the battery software and motor software using this version or later:
* HDS Software Version 3.002.034
* HDS Control Module (CM) update - Database Update 1 Mar 2012 [not quite clear as how to read this, either Update 1, March 2012 or Update, 1 Mar 2012. rsh33]
Once the software has been updated, DTC P0A80 will be gone, never to be seen again.
After updating the IMA motor and battery software, immediately check for DTCs.
* If you see DTC P1569 or P1637 right after the update, there's a mismatch between the battery software and the battery type. Go back to S/B 10-083, recheck the battery type and software, and repeat the update.
* If you see P1589 or P1637 any time other than right after the update, follow the normal troubleshooting in ISIS.
The End. I asked the dealer why Honda didn't notify me, the original owner with a previously reported P0A80 occurrence, of this fix. The answer was, "Honda doesn't". I asked if the dealer would have recommended this upgrade as part of a normal service? The answer was, "no".
1. The IMA light is on
2. The check engine light is on
3. The battery charger light is on
4. The AC in the car does not work. (I turned it on but no cool air comes out)
5. The Battery on the right side of IMA ( I think that it is the indicator of IMA battery capacity) is TOTALLY empty.
6. Maintenance due light is showing..
Are these problems results of weak battery?
I just replaced the IMA battery in June, with 164K miles on the engine and with all the same symptoms you have (except the AC thing). At the Honda dealership it was $2870. before taxes! Honda's batteries are not new, but refurbished and mine came with a 2 year warranty. (I am told Honda no longer makes these batteries new, but they are refurbished by Panasonic who made the original batteries.)
I asked to keep my old battery. After all it did belong to me, however Honda was going to charge me $1200 more for the repair if I insisted on keeping the battery! That's called Honda robbery!! By the way, the life of the IMA battery is the focus of a current class action lawsuit against Honda. By default, you may be included in this.
Note that one year ago, after reading many positive comments on this and another online forum, I had my failing battery refurbished by Ron Hansen of Hybrid Battery Repair out of NY, with a one year warranty. Four months later (Sept. 2011) I was having problems.. lights coming on, "coughing" with acceleration, etc. Weeks turned into months trying to get an upfront response from Mr. Hanson, all couched in kind promises and no action. Finally, in May 2012 after tens of phone calls, most of which were never even acknowledged, I discovered he had closed his doors. Consumer beware!
I hate to be the bearer of this news, but my guess is that your IMA battery (if it isn't already) is on it's way to being, like the wicked witch, "not just merely dead, but really most sincerely dead".
Can i replace the MCM with the used MCM?
If you have the time and the patience to remove all the fasteners, and take all the safety precautions, it can be done. A set of sticks would likely cost under $2,000
Eric Powers
What should be my right values in mah to result in a good performance, I read enforos that the burden should give me a maximum of 6200mah and download between 5500 and 6200mah.
Will I have to increase the amount of amps loading and unloading for each battery. or care if I leave as I?
MY EMAIL IS: [Email removed]