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If they won't notice that V-6 A is a second slower than V-6 B, they probly won't notice V-6 A is a second faster than 4-cyl B. So why bother with the V-6 at all?
See how I didn't bash any brand.
The whole HP numbers game just plays into the the marketing depts. They want you to care about HP so they can create a demand and hence more profit.
Look at a Lotus Elise. It will embarass most any car on the road - with a Toyota 4-cylinder engine. HP is not all that matters.
You mean the midsize sedan called the Lotus Elise? Actually a 4cyl S2000 will easily embarass a Lotus Elise.
High HP while maintaining decent fuel economy is what most of these cars offer.
I think Subaru should get the nod for AWD engineering in this class. Ford is a little late to the party in comparison to Subaru.
Definitely a gutsy move by Saturn...
I give for a decade before it's also sold off like Chrysler was.
I fear that you may be correct but I hope that is not the case.
Everything that's wrong with Ford is being addressed by Fields and Mullaly. So far they've made the right decisions for Ford's long term health. No reason to think they won't keep it up.
Not really, considering a huge amount of the CamCord's appeal is from its reputation as a long term pleaser, and the showroom can downplay or mute this trait.
I am so biased that it would take either a giant price difference or some super-surprising features and possibly a much longer warranty to sway me. I cannot imagine changing my mind. Perhaps they so strongly believe in their product that they think a side-by-side could make me consider the Aura?
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This is light years ahead of the "Fusion Challenge" because I beleive this will actually get some more people into Saturn showrooms (heck, I have one a mile away that I've never been to, and I'm thinking about going just to check out the spectacle).
You've got the fairly basic models of all three cars, comparable in *sticker* price (the one flaw is that Saturn won't budge wheras the Japanese usually will), and they can showcase all of the awards the Aura has.
Plus if they really do "pamper" the customers I'm thinking it will get some people all worked up. Additionally, unlike the Fusion challenge, the people who get all excited during the test drives will actually be able to buy an Aura right then before the excited feeling wears off.
I've never driven an Aura; I'll report my experience.
Unless someone wants to give me a car, I intend on keeping those biases. :surprise
As much as I love my Hondas, I gotta say I think the factory does this for you :P
It's why Lexus ate into Mercedes sales. Close to the same thing for a lot less money(well, at first... now Lexus is silly money as well)
The CamCord fans might not want to hear your comments but this Fusion owner does. Are you going to say the Hyundai is better in some respects? Is it a Sonata?
As an aside, I've recently had the pleasure of renting a Altima [EDIT] 2.5S and driving a couple hundred miles in it, back and forth between NYC/NJ/Philly.
First, let me say that this vehicle's glaring omission is its lack of standard ABS. In a rainstorm yesterday, this becaming frighteningly apparent on the NJ TPK as I had to jab the brakes quickly due to rubbernecking, and the front tires locked-up momentarily. As if a Taco Bell lunch needs further encouragement through my digestive system!
Crisis adverted, no drama ensued, but still.. it's practically the 2008 MY, this vehicle costs $21K at MSRP, and ABS is minimally expensive nowawdays, so what gives, Nissan?
That aside, this car is fantastic. Sure, I'm still not convinced by the fuzzy, cheap felt on the outer edges of the seats, but that's so easy to overlook given the interior's many other virtues, from a super-easy to use trip computer, to well placed dash vents and logical climate controls. And the base stereo is even pretty decent (though I like the Camry's trap door for the iPod better than the Altima's jack).
Additionally, seating is comfortable, passenger room copious, and steering wheel easily customizable for drivers of various shapes and sizes. Finally, all buyers get the simple but totally trick Intelligent Key? Sweet!
Where this car shines though is in its ultra-responsive and smooth (especially for a 4) powertrain. The CVT is worlds above those offered in Dodge/Mitsu products, and this 2.5L feels nothing if not 3.0+ litres in size. I've even gotten an indicated 25 MPG since rolling out of the Enterprise parking lot, despite lots of sitting in traffic and, shall we say, liberal throttle applications when not.
Handling is as one would expect given Nissan's pitch of the Altima; composed and engaging. Kudos.
Seriously, pending crash scores, I can't imagine why this vehicle wouldn't be on the shopping list of buyers in this segment. This is, far and away, the 4 cylinder that I'd pick. Make mine with ABS and the Convenience Package, though (which really does add convenience, btw, as the power driver's seat likely cures some of the limited flexiblity between the standard seat's incline and slide detents)
Heck, I'd take this 4 over the V6 iterations of the Sonata and Fusion, too. I haven't driven the Altima V6, but it would be a tough call between this and the Camry SE V6 or the Accord V6s (due to their tremedous value right now and general competence despite age). If I wanted lux, I'd probably go Camry XLE V6, though.
IMO, if Nissan continues cranking out winners like this, Shift 2.0 will be nothing short of phenomenal. (To bad the new Sentra works to contradict this).
my .02
~alpha
There is no Altima 2.0S
He did later in his review point out that the engine was 2.5L in size. Probably a typo unless he actually drove a Sentra 2.0S? :confuse:
Sure we do. This is just another "Challenge", and will be as effective as the Fusion and Hyundai challenges have been. Are their sales increasing since they started the Challenges? I don't think so.
The way to increase sales of your own car, is to make a BETTER CAR. Talking bad about the other guy doesn't work.
I was thinking the same thing. The latest Motor Trend picked it second to the Civic and ahead of the Elantra. Looks good to me too.
Nissan does build a nice 4 cyl, but I'd venture to say the next incarnation of a four cylinder from Honda in the 08 Accord will not only easily match it, but also provide the overall Honda fit and finish that closes most deals at a Honda dealership.
. So much misinformation. So little time.
Ford April 2007 sales press release:
Following the start of the successful “Fusion Challenge” ads in January, the Ford Fusion posted double-digit sales increases throughout the first quarter.
Fusion sales for 1Q07 when they ran the ads were up 33% over 1Q06. 39,678 for 1Q2007 vs. 29,845 for 1Q2006.
There goes that theory.
~alpha
Further were sales to consumers, and not to fleet? Ford has been doing good with this in terms of the FuLans, but I still have seen many at airport rental lots.
Finally, I found the Fusion challenge annoying because it didn't seem to be as apples to apples as possible. Did Ford not feel confident enough in fielding the FWD version of the Fusion? Since all the bar graphs that Ford chose to place in its ads had to do with either 1) styling or 2) performance, was Ford uncomfortable in providing a Camry SE with its different suspension settings?
~alpha
I expect what Saturn is doing is pitting the Aura against like-priced Camrys and Accords. That would mean, for example, the V6 Aura vs. a relatively bare-bones Accord/Camry I4. I have done just this sort of comparison at my local auto show, and IMO the Aura looks very good in this kind of comparison. For example, it has large, nice-looking alloys vs. (probably) plastic covers on smaller wheels on the Camcord. It has the V6 vs. the I4. It has a much classier looking exterior I think, and the interior compares well, at least to the extent someone would compare them on a showfloor. You also have other plusses with the Aura, including OnStar and the hassle-free buying experience Saturn offers (not to be overlooked for many buyers tired of what they have experienced or heard about shenanigans by Honda and Toyota salespeople).
So I think it's a good move by GM--even if it means that Honda and Toyota just sold nearly 500 cars each in June.
I'd like to see Hyundai try this with, say, the Santa Fe, RAV4, and CRV, or maybe the Elantra, Civic, and Corolla. Or more on topic, the Sonata, Camry, and Accord. Before the new Accord comes out, preferably.
Better be worth 3-$5K more at trade in... You paid $3-5K more at purchase..
Fusion fleet sales are holding steady around 18% last time I checked. They are NOT dumping cars into rental fleets. Instead they're slowing production to match demand instead of throwing huge amounts of cash on the hood. Even the slow selling Five Hundred never got huge rebates like it would have in the past. The days of rental fleet dumping are over.
Having AWD was the main point of the Fusion challenge - you can get an AWD Fusion V6 for the same price or less than the FWD competition. If Toyota wants to do their own test with a SE model - go right ahead. But if they had used the SE model then everyone would have complained that the Fusion was better equipped since it was a top of the line model.
Here we go again..
The fact is you can buy an AWD Fusion SEL V6 for the same price or less than a V6 CamryXLE or Accord EX. Read the comparison please. "Comparable prices". The Fusion will still our perform a Camry SE in the twisties. So I guess the Accord/Camry having stability control standard has no merit?? :confuse:
Ford was a SPONSER only. Ford funded the comparison. These were everyday people/consumers. Not mag writers that have to make sure they keep the masses of readers happy or they will lose readers=revenue. That is what made this comparison an eye opener.
I am getting 35 MPG on my horrible 40 mile, 1 hour and a half commute that has 50% stop and go.
What is there not to like? (yeah I know, it's not very sporty, has a soft suspension but is very roomy and quiet).
Oh it will. And the percentage of its original value the Accord will keep is huge compared to a Ford.
You seem to forget about that part of the calculation.
The first car retained a higher % of it's original cost but cost $1K more in REAL dollars. Do percentages pay your expenses or do you pay them with dollars?
Another example of percentages not being real: If you make $200 a week and get a 50% pay cut for a month, you'd get $100 per week. Then the situation improves and you get a 100% pay increase, which restores you to the original $200 per week. The dollars are the same but the percentage minded people would be inclined to think you were better off with a 100% increase after suffering "only a 50% temporary cut."
leadfoot: you keep talking like you've got some crystal ball or some inside contacts at Honda! Stop it! I like Honda too, but I don't think everything they touch turns to gold... look at their stringtrimmers or even the ridgeline or ElementSC or RDX or RL or lack of braking power on their Accords. Why don't we just talk about what we know and not what we hope we know.
You seem to forget about that part of the calculation."
Have fun banking the percentage. My bank only works in dollars.
Seriously - adwriters must love us (colectively) consumers. They can use numbers/statistics that are at best irrelevant, or at worst misleading, but if they sound good we eat 'em up.
Accord will probably be slightly higher because of its reputation but I don't think the gap is as high as the Accord fans think it will be.
and if we make the assumption that it will be (while Ford has had a checkered past in the residual value dept, we simply don't know yet about the Fusion - the Camcords OTH each have about 20 years or so of great residual values), then that Camcord really only costs about $200.00/year to own than that Fusion - that $200.00 'average' interest you pay on an extra $4000.00 per year - keeping in mind that the principle difference will also narrow because your payments are obviously higher and that loan principle difference reduces with time. Is it worth an extra $20/month to drive an Accord let's say - that is buyers choice, but it is also a cost that you might also recover just in the FE differences.
The Accord actually a cheaper car than a Fusion, quite possibly - and I'm not the only one that thinks so - check out Intellichoice and Edmunds numbers. This logically the ultimate justification for those that go out and spend the extra money on a Camcord - but also one with a very solid historically supported foundation.
Over the longer term, of course, that differential will always shrink in the cheaper car's favor and then we are all reduced to a bet of sorts - on the long term reliability and repair costs on one car vs the other, and again we can all point to 20 years or so of history versus a whole 2 as we all seek to make the best 'bet' we can.
Folks that point to initial purchase price can sometimes justifiably point to some great discounted and/or mfgr sponsored 'deal' they think they got, but the fact of the matter is that initial purchase price is only one of several components of what it truly costs to own a car.
Harp on the price differences all you want, but in all likelyhood, it means very, very, very, little
Does your bank give you a range when they talk about a cost to you? Do they say that fee is $3000-5000 dollars? Have fun figuring that debit out on your statement.
My point is that although you might pay more for the Accord the accumulated depreciation on it when you sell it (expressed as a percentage that has been proven - not a number I made up) is less than that of any other sedan in this class.
Yes - I'll take that to the bank in actual, exact dollars and not in a firm possibility of a definite maybe.
while it is true that Ford has avoided dumping the Fusion thru the fleet sales depts., resale value market perceptions will always largely be governed by what people think the the brand name as a whole. Example - you are going out to buy your kid his/her first car, and you tell your neighbor that you bought an 6 year old Camcord with 100k on it. He nods because he understands. Tell him the same thing about a Contour in the same condition and he wonders if you are crazy. The fact that the 1 and 2 year old rental fleet Taurus can be bought for 10-12k or that they are floating 6 grand+ on Crown Vics can do nothing but hurt a Fusion's resale values, simply because the Taurus/CV are cheapening the brand name as a whole.
It is perhaps unfair, but for the last 10 or 15 years at least - Toyotas and Hondas are assummed reliable and valuable while the 'Detroit' products are assummed 'suspect'. Ford (and Ford buyers) will have a long time to wait before this changes - even if the Fusion proves to be the most reliable and best car ever built.