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And yes, I own a 03 3.5SE (auto) 25-26 mpg overall, 75k, and never been back to the dealer for anything - the way it should be. EXCEPT for some collison repairs after my wife got rearended - which is how I found out about the resale values, the darn insurance co. wouldn't total it because THEY thought it was still worth substantially more than the $11k it took to fix it. The wife, of course, had her heart set on a new 07 model at the time and STILL DOES even though they did a good job on the repairs. Somehow, I think I'm going to lose this battle - again!
I did get a chance to drive the new 08, found that the interior quality/fit & finish had improved tremendously - thought the CVTs behavior was a bit disconcerting, although I know she would love it - it is smoooooth. MTXs, of course, in big city traffic, out of the question for her and me.
They are both approx $24k plus tax, tag and title.
2007 Altima 3.5SE manual
2007 Mazdaspeed6 Sport manual
boy, that is a tough one. If its performance you want, I'd have to go with the altima. Gotta love that VQ. But, if your primary concern is price, you'd almost deffinitly get the 6 either for less, or same with more options.
I would definitely reverse that. For performance I would go for the AWD/Turbo. It runs like a mild mannered grocery getter until you get into boost, and then you feel yourself getting pressed into the seatback mmm.
They are both approx $24k plus tax, tag and title.
2007 Altima 3.5SE manual
2007 Mazdaspeed6 Sport manual
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You could also look at the Subaru WRX TR. Cars Direct has them for about 22.5K as well, and it's a much better choice than either of those two, IMO. That also leaves enogh room to get a couple of handling and interior goodies thrown in and still be under $24K.
#2 of course is my favorite, the RX-8. It's the best car for $24K than you can get aside from *maybe* the WRX. Loads of fun and still pretty decent for commuting - it won't beat you up like a 350Z or Mustang.
$24,271 including delivery via cars direct(Pasadena, CA). that is for a base model with the performance package - limited slip, foglights, and stability control. Other options? - maybe get a spoiler thrown in. The car is pretty well equipped as it is.
What about a 2008 CTS with a 6 speed? Could be worth the wait, altho kinda pricey.
Peopel who plan on keeping a new car for 5 or more years shouldn't be concerned with resale or trade-in value. In my state, CT, if a car is totaled the insurance company has to pay retail used car value.
A couple months ago I looked at retail value of my '05 Sonata and it was only ~ $2,000 less than what I paid in April '05.
I paid $4 or $5K less than a comparable camcord would have cost. Tell me where I'm taking a beating on depreciation.
Yeah, too bad YOU can't sell it for retail. :surprise:
The Subaru is a real driver's car and will do just fine for family use. It's about the same size as an old Volvo 240, which was considered a fine family car back in the day, size-wise.
Loren
captain, I love how you selectively quote what others write so as to misrepresent what they really say... nice try. what I said was that I did an appraisal of my car on Kelly Blue Book and found that the retail value of my mazda6 after owning it for 18 months and having 20k miles on it, it was coming up that the suggested retail price was higher than what I paid for it. The bigger point I was making was that when buying certain cars that were/are being discounted heavily, this can help reduce the impact of depreciation if a buyer was concerned about buying a certain car because of bad resale value. There has been lots of talk in this thread that buying a camcord has the added advantage that resale values are higher thus the true cost to own calculations benefit camcords... but my experience shows that if a buyer is able to buy a car that is heavily discounted, this benefit can be flipped where the advantage is actually with the heavily discounted car, in this case, my mazda6 has an amazing resale value because I was able to buy it at a hugely reduced price. Since you don't know what the advequitguy bought his Mazdaspeed6 for relative to MSRP, you can't possibly have enough info to draw any useful conclusions.... and in the future captain2, I'd appreciate if you'd make an attempt to characterize what others have written accurately rather than twisting their words to make a point that they weren't.
Have you driven the MS6? Trust me, the performance edge in this comparison clearly favors the MS6. A turbo 4-cylinder feeding AWD is my choice compared to a nose-heavy FWD. Don't get me wrong, the VQ is indeed a great engine, but the handling of the Altima leaves a little to be desired compared to a regular Mazda6, and a LOT with the MS6. The previous-gen has terrible torque-steer, which gets a little unnerving in a corner. The '07 has toned down the TS, but it still floats more on the highway and rolls more than the 6 in the twisties.
For a sedan with good performance, practicality and a broader appeal, the Altima is your choice. For a sedan that handles better than some sports cars, a powerful turbocharged engine with AWD, and still can seat 4 comfortably, pick the MS6.
BTW, it isn't difficult to get a MS6 Sport for $1500 less (or more) than the Altima...
other than KBB instead of Edmund's, is there something wrong with the English language? The situation you claim, a car being worth more 'retail' (according to anybody) after 18 months and 20k just plain doesn't happen, and especially not to Mazda6s and even not to Camcords. Believe your KBB if you wish, they are wrong (as those numbers tend to be when any cars starts selling at big discounts) AND as indicated by that other poster that said that he had a great deal of difficulty getting any kind of reasonable value back on his Speed6.
The OP also never asked about the Legacy GT, only about the MS6 against the Altima 3.5SE. The LGT is indeed a great-handling sedan, but you're right, it's bigger size-wise than the MS6, and IMO it constantly reminds you of this when you're driving as well.
all true, you have to wonder how these leasing cos. can project residual values (and therefore lease payment sizes) reliably when a particular car is just out. I just can't imagine that even Mazda/FoMoCo) would have had any idea a few years back, that the 6, for example, would be having to be sold at $6k+ discounts and thus, the residual values would be in the dumper. Guess it must get to be a function of Mazda/Ford (if they are the lessor) "taking it on the chin" much in the same way that they do when they discount it that much to begin with? Buying any brand of vehicle with a 'suspect' past in terms of future values is a helluva gamble but at least we do have a 'red flag' - that being that that it is being sold for any number significantly below invoice.
2) Too bad practically no individual can sell their used car for retail, regardless of the make and model. :surprise:
Kbb has "private party" sale value, which is closer to what you can get for the car. Retail value is what you can expect at a dealership, and is usually $1k-$2k more. I think the "condition" of the car, and how "in demand" the car is in your area, has more to do with what you can sell a car for than any number on kbb.
I think you might be confusing the Legacy with the Outback. I found the Legacy to be more sporting then the Honda, as sporting as the Altima, and less then the MS6 (although about on par with the comparable Mazda6). If you compare the Spec B with the MS6, things might be different but I haven't driven a recent Spec B.
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Actually, it's about as large as the CTS or other midsize sedans if you ignore the wasted middle seat area. (which most people just use as an armrest by putting down the center console when sitting back there). The RX-8 just made that a full-time armrest/storage area.
It's not too bad to actually sit in.
Plus, 95% of the time, people are driving alone or at most, with one kid in the rear. Even a Buick LaCrosse is miserable with three people in the rear. Needing a big car to commute in seems a bit of a waste to me. I'd rather get something sporty instead.
We talked about this. I don't really care what the specs say, (imo) it's absolutely claustrophic to sit in the back of an RX-8. Different strokes for different folks. One man's palace is another man's shack.
My 1998 Mazda 626 ES V6 had an original MSRP of $23,240 and an original invoice of $20,933. The car had the standard manual transmission, sunroof, leather, power seats, BOSE CD, ABS brakes, and alloy wheels.
In June of 2001, with 50k miles, the original owner attempted to sell it for $12,500 but had no interest. He sold it at his reduced asking price of $10,500. This represents approximately 50% depreciation in 4 years.
I drove the car 2 and 1/2 additional years and put another 45k miles on it, selling it in December 2003 for $5,700, or 30% of it's original value. That figure was just below KBB "excellent" private party value at that time.
Not true. The Mazda6 is certainly bigger than the Forester and Legacy, but not by much.
Cu ft
Legacy 93
Forester 95
Mazda6 96
Legacy wagon (outback) 97
Mazda6 wagon 98
For perspective the Civic is 91 and the Accord is 103.
When the Fusion's been out as long as the Accord, then it will have legendary status similar to the Honda, but only if it can maintain the first year performance longterm!
I can easily sit behind myself in a mazda6, comfortable for like 2~3hr car ride easily. After that it gets iffy even in any car in this segment.
these are just my observations. If the legacy had a bigger back seat, it would be my #1 choice hands down [im lookin for manual transmission car]. Another problem with the legacy backseat is the C-pillar that forces you to contort your body to get in.
The 3.6 in the Saturn is a truly new engine that did fortunately spend some time under CTS hoods much like the Camry V6 had already spent some time under Avalon hoods (and others). As such, the jury must still be considered out on those particular engines especially relative to things like the current Honda V6, the 'ancient' Nissan VQ, and yes, even that 'ancient' DT.
This means the new 6 will arrive as a 09MY (perhaps 08.5MY but likely 09).
here's a link for some more pics and rumors about the new mazda6: link title
which is why it's nice to have an option to buy a hatchback or wagon (until it is discontinued next year) in the midsize sedan class. those who want to be able to have the convenience and comfort of four doors yet have the flexibility to haul some pretty large things can buy a Mazda6 in it's different styles so a buyer can get much more usefulness out of a midsize sedan.
I posted this pic before, but I am still very happy with what I can fit in the back of my hatchback. for those who don't recall, that's 3 highback office chairs with arm rests in the back of my Mazda6 hatchback...
apparently there is something wrong with the english language for you, cuz you can't seem to quote or paraphrase people correctly...lol
The situation you claim, a car being worth more 'retail' (according to anybody) after 18 months and 20k just plain doesn't happen, and especially not to Mazda6s and even not to Camcords. Believe your KBB if you wish, they are wrong (as those numbers tend to be when any cars starts selling at big discounts) AND as indicated by that other poster that said that he had a great deal of difficulty getting any kind of reasonable value back on his Speed6.
Did I ever say that I thought I could sell my car for the suggested retail amount that is listed in Kelly Blue Book. No, I didn't. Once again, you are suggesting I said something that I never have. And if you were to read my original post, I listed the private party value for my Mazda6 which was $2200 off what I paid for it. Not bad for 18 months and 20k miles... but oh yeah, you don't like to paraphrase what other people write correctly, so I'll make it clear to everyone else.
Here's where I take issue with your disputing KBB's valuations of cars. On the one hand you bring up the advantages of certain cars by mentioning Edmund's True Cost of Ownership, which uses (among other things) used car values to determine the TCO. So in this situation you accept these used car values to draw conclusions about the cost of owning one of these cars. But in this instance, you are now saying that these used car valuations are junk and should be ignored... well captain2, you can't have it both ways. And as a side note, when I got preapproved to get a loan for a used car, guess what the bank used to determine the maximum amount that they would loan me for a certain car... you guessed it, Kelly Blue Book.
Regarding your mentioning that person with the Speed6 and his inability to get what he wanted from a dealer on trade in... First of all, when does a dealer ever give a fair trade in value at first... pretty much never. And how do you know how far into the negotiation he got? And how do you know how good of a negotiator he was anyway? Second, you have no idea what condition his car was in... was it damaged or abused? Third, you don't know what the dealer offered him. Maybe that guy has the idea that he should get all of his money back and anything less is unreasonable... of course to expect this would be absurd, but how do you know if this guys expectations are realistic or not? Fourthly, how do you know what he paid for his car in the first place? If you don't know that, how can you judge what "reasonable value back" is? And you have not tried to dispute the point in the three responses you've written to my first post that brought up the point that the more of a discount you get on a car, the less of a hit you will get when it comes to resale. Since you have not tried to dispute this, you must agree that you have no basis to judge whether the amount offered for his used car was realistic, fair, or reasonable.
Here in the NW there are tons of subies around and this demand kept me from getting the deal I wanted on a 05 legacy gt. Really an amazing car. A friend of mine just got an Outback (non turbo) and it's really nice. As a side note, my legacy had 160k miles on it, and I sold it for 5.4k and it was advertized for less than a day.
In June of 2001, with 50k miles, the original owner attempted to sell it for $12,500 but had no interest. He sold it at his reduced asking price of $10,500. This represents approximately 50% depreciation in 4 years.
What did he actually pay for it when new? If it were discounted like the Mazda6, perhaps he paid $5000 (or more)below MSRP, as a number of Mazda6 buyers have. That would mean he would have paid around $18,000 and depreciation was about 42%. This was also a manual, which makes selling it a lot more difficult.