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Loren
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And there's no golf cart feel on the xtronic, at least on the altima. I'm pretty sure the vesa and sentra have a little bit of that going on, but the altima uses a newer and better design.
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And yea, I know there is some luck involved with 9 years and no repairs. But I still think its a minimal amount of luck. I've always contributed the longevity of my vehicles more to the fact I take very good care of them than anything else. The honda has been just as good. Most of the 800 was for the timing belt, which is maintanence, not repair. So, Its more like $300 over 5 years. Thats why I always qualified my posts with winks, or intentional statements that the bill was small or expected. Just tounge in cheek humor. The timing belt is a great example. Even though it cost 400 or so to replace, i don't mind because it does have an advantage over the chain. If the chain in either of my nissans should go, and both being DOHC engines, I'd be lucky to get it fixed for less than 1500. looking at it that way, the 400 once, twice, maybe three times over the life of the car ain't so bad. :P
The ones in SLO, Santa Maria, and Ventura/Oxnard don't count?
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Regards:
Oldengineer
I'm speculating...I drive an Accord, so I don't actually know what repairs cost. :P (KIDDING, just had to throw that in)
That's cuz they put everything into the maintenance schedule...90K mi maintenance: rebuild engine, replace transmission, ...
But, seriously as someone else had mentioned an example is timing belt...replacement is maintenance on an Accord, but a repair on Ford's 2.0 Zetec engine in the Contour, etc.
L
A couple months after I bought my 2002 Maxima a friend had the timing chain tensioner break on his 1998 Maxima leading to a costly repair. The car had a little over 60000 miles on it and was out of warranty. Neither system is foolproof but belts tend to be quieter and cheaper to build. All things considered I would rather have a chain simply since I usually keep my cars for a long time and it is 1 less maintainence item to deal with, although a chain can stretch and need replacement after many years of use.
As for maintenance, like radiator flush and such, I would take it to an independent which charges much less than the dealership or those specialty experts for Imports, which translates into, let's double the price. A neighbor took a rock in his Volvo headlamp. They replaced the whole thing at something like $450. Dang, that use to be an engine overhaul And you can still get a GM 350 engine for what, say $1,750? This was just a crack on the headlamp, not a major incident. Wonder what Volvo charges for a $30 oil change -- $60 - $80 ??? Just nuts.
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I have yet to have to replace a lamp assembly on a modern vehicle. Most of those vehicles used a very standardized, very easy to find 9006 bulb, which I have had to replace on every vehicle I've had. The outside housing might be special but the bulb inside is a standard (I know, HID bulbs are different, but that whole system is different).
What is really interesting is the return of the round. I think we will see this on some retro theme cars. And, call me crazy, some cars just look so good with a simple round headlamp, you wonder if they are just trying too hard these days to bling. Those small round lamps, I take it, did not work out so well for the Integra Acuras?
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I don't care if a car holds four pieces of luggage, instead of six, or it can in theory seat five, when they really carry four. Heck, give me two doors instead of four, or make both models, just get back to some good old fashion style and handling cars which can spin the rears!
:shades: Loren
So he has only 6 years and 122k miles to go to make it to that magic 300k and 20 years with virtually no repairs. Good luck to him!
Wow, does someone have a chip on their shoulders. Looks like there are alot replies since I posted and I'm sure someone likely has stated it. The water pump DID NOT need to be replaced. It's just makes sense and is usually much cheaper to get it replaced during the timing belt change. Who knows how long it would have lasted.
If you've read my post. My 64 year old father is not looking to go to 300K. He's just aiming to get to 200K w/o any mechanical breakdowns as you asked prior if anyone knew of someone with alot of mileage with little to no unscheduled mechanical repairs. Everything I listed fit your request other than the 20 year/300K, which I stated at the beginning of my response that it was 16 years old and nearing 200K. Not to take a shot at ya, but maybe you should educate yourself with what's usually scheduled vs unscheduled repairs.
Take it easy bub. It's just car talk. Sorry you had a such a negative experience with whatever make and models you've owned.
Every manufacturer has a destination charge. The destination charge is a straight pass through with no mark-up for he dealer. It IS a cost of the car.
Since the manufacuters set a flat rate destination charge years ago, they could have built destination into the invoice price, but they chose not to, presumably so they could advertise a lower price.
If you look at an MSRP sitcker, you will see the the total MSRP includes a destination charge.
As for my negative experiences, as I noted earlier, the only car I've owned in over 30 years that did not fit the "virtually no repairs" rule was a Honda. But I still like Hondas. I just don't like what they cost relative to other alternatives.
No, I would not consider any RWD car. It is just much easier to have FWD, when you live where there is winter.
Would there not be some real demand for RWD cars,
Not from me, and I am guessing there would be little demand in the snow belt.
I don't feel it is needed, but most people around here love AWD/4WD.
a man with some taste! had one myself - and ran autocross with it! Opels got a bad name from some 1100cc tin cans (which I also owned) and by the time they got around (72?)to the 1900 (and a tight handling good lookingt sedan) you are talking about. Buick couldnt sell enough of them and as Opel prices went up and up becuase of the mark to dollar exchange rate were forced then to source the car out of Japan (Isuzu?) by the mid 70s - which were even worse POSs than even the Toyotas and Datsuns (Nissans) of he mid and late 60s.
Opel is still a respected brand in Europe, and has the best selling car over there, the upcoming replacement for the Saturn Ion is that car - unfortunately saddled with the Ecotec 4). We also owe the Aura and the CTS to some of that German engineering.
Headlights- here's one for you - own a HID equipped Avalon, got into a really minor fender bender, headlight lense had a scratch in it - headlight only available as an 'assembly' - cost to replace $1100.00 plus labor!
Base engine: 2.5l I4 - 190-200hp
Optional Engine: 3.7l PFI V6 - 280hp
AWD optional
I too live in Western PA and agree that it probably felt snappy on the highways as pretty much anything built after MY2000 will. However, I would argue that it felt snappy if you tried starting off on one of our many very steep hills that have either stop signs or stop lights in the middle of them. Chevrolet is the #1 selling brand in the Pittsburgh area mostly, and this is IMO, due to the availability of a V6 in almost everything they sell. Lots of Impalas and Montes around here. I myself always opt for at least a V6 anymore after thoroughly struggling with a Civic and ZX2 on the hills for a few years. Not much choice in that class though.
I just got back from the OBX today and did notice an Optima or two (may have been the same one, both I4s) flying by on the PA turnpike. They looked perfectly at home at a high speed and I have no doubt they are perfectly adequate for most people. I am not one of them due to the area in which I live however.
If you can stand the high rpm's on grades the Optima does have adequate power. If I use the manual shift, it doesn't kick down and still seems to make grades-- the Ozarks aren't the Allegheny's however.
That's a fair point, but I'm willing to pay a certain amount for regular service that avoids future roadside situations. The avoidance of unanticipated disruptions is worth some extra money.
I do have to wonder, though, to what extent the recommended maintenance periods are based on actual need vs. being a profit center for the dealerships' service areas. The 90K check was invoiced at 5 labor hours, cost ~$500, and the list of what they actually did isn't that long...lots of "inspect this, check that." Plus, it was out in less than 3 hours...did they really have multiple people working on it? I had it done to protect my extended warranty, but I'll be very tempted to cut back on the full packages once that's no longer an issue.
What do you guys do for service: follow the recommendations or pick and choose? Do you handle older cars differently than newer ones?
I live in Southern California which has mountains all over the place (a lot bigger than in Pittsburgh). The CITY of Los Angeles has numerous passes and hills. There are plenty of Civics, Corollas, and Mazda 3's here.
I suspect the Pittsburgh story is more that it's in the traditional midwest rust belt and people just buy more American Cars. (Not slamming Pittsburgh, I've been there many times and it is a beautiful city in its hill and river setting.)
It doesn't really matter if you call it maintenance or a repair, warranty is not going to cover either one. But if Ford does not have a set time to change the timing belt, is it supposed to last the life of the engine? I guess Ford thinks other engine parts are likely to fail before the belt.
I have seen the new baby Volvo, which is very nice little thing. This one happens to be something like $27K, which is so over the top price wise. Isn't the new Astra something like $16K? I can possibly see it as $21K base then $23K loaded, but that is a stretch. Looks like a neat little skateboard, many I think will see it as an $18K to $21K car, even with all that HP. Or is that HP all so much fun for the little guy, it is worth the price? Guess the numbers sold will tell the tale. - L
I suspect the Pittsburgh story is more that it's in the traditional midwest rust belt and people just buy more American Cars. (Not slamming Pittsburgh, I've been there many times and it is a beautiful city in its hill and river setting.)
There are a lot of small cars here too because those hills make the gas disappear faster as you well know. I think the tendency towards the larger Chevys though is, like I said, the readily available V6, and the weight. The heavier cars tend to do better in the snow (maybe not for stopping though :surprise: ) plus you need something big to take tailgaiting when the Steelers are in town.
At one time I was considering a larger car than my Accord for the everyday car. I am now of the belief this '07 is large, as in large enough, and the next full time car will be no larger or smaller. Small is just so user friendly in all so many ways. As for high tech items which are a bit of a thorn with me, right now I am thinking those thick A pillars for the air bags. So far, anti-lock brakes, stability control, and the rest seem like a good thing, though replacing / repairing is not gonna be all that cheap no doubt. I still kinda miss seeing a hood out front. Today's cars seem to have little to no visible hood out there. This is one thing I would look for in finding a modern day classic. Oh yeah, another thing is a good old fashion key instead of those $200 + keys.
All in all though, the modern day car has safety, speed, gas mileage, ride, cornering, comfort and the like, which exceeds just about anything made before it. Not to say I don't appreciate the simple life. My Corolla and Miata had roll up windows, and manual door locks, so how simple is that. A key for those two, cost under a $1. each.
You pay to play, as the gals in Vegas say. :shades: And modern has its play for more pay benefits.
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That's the part I hate. The Civic we had needed wound so high on the hills that I got dirty looks because it sounded like I was going too fast. I haven't driven a Honda lately but I understand they've alleviated some of that need for high RPM to produce the modest amount of power it takes to get you up hills and grades. It sounds like you are telling me Hyunkia hasn't come that far yet?
No, it really doesn't...except for "talk" here and it also might matter on things like CR surveys.
But if Ford does not have a set time to change the timing belt, is it supposed to last the life of the engine?
Yes, "life of the engine" is what they said when I asked. I believe typically they would last over 100,000 miles. It was not an interference engine, so you could choose to leave it until it breaks or treat it as a maintenance item and replace it proactively.
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I follow the manufacturer's schedule not the dealers recomendations. I never ask for things like "90,000 mile service"...well, I did make that mistake once.
Ah, but since the power comes in at a much lower RPM you don't have to wind it up. Our Explorer sounds awful when revved high but I think I've had to do that maybe twice in the year and a half we've owned it. All the power is down low and you move without drama.
The Mazda6 S I had did need some fairly high revs to get going at a reasonable pace but it was much better than the I4 version of anything I can think of IMO.