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As for tires, I don't think Honda is going to use any cheap tire, but I could be wrong. Will have to look around next visit. Hyundai seems to use all Michelin's. I set a personal record for wear with a GM car in '86, as it had Goodyear Customs, which wore down in 8,000 miles. Never topped that one :sick: Loren
Honda brings out the Value Package halfway through its life-cycle. Otherwise, compare an LX to an LX to get an idea on pricing. What you've posted is a sly way of implying that all Accord trims will have that price increase, when in fact, they have just done away with the cheapie level altogether.
No "slyness" intended on my part...not sure why edmunds did not clarify the change in base models in the article. Still, that is a pretty hefty increase in the minimum entry price.
I have, and though its a very nice car, I don't see the benchmark thing.
I read the article wehre the guy in charge of honda NA made that prediction. I'm skeptical, and guess that to be more wishfull thinking than anything else. Not that the car itself will be the reason, but sales of midsize cars have been dropping for a decade now, and is still falling. People want smaller and more fuel efficent. about the only way any manufacture can incrase their sales units in the midsize section is by taking from the other guy. considering the domestics +hyundai/kia and the rest have probably been beat down now about as much as they can be, you only have the altima and camry to take away from. and thats a pretty tall order even for honda. Add to the mix the current econmic climate, the high probability that the economy will continue to slow if not slip into recession and that 400k copies seems even less likely. I don't think the next couple of years is going to be very bright for any of the automakers. going to be real tough to start posting record sales with a vehicle that likely wont be discounted at all.
Do you think that will fit on my stock rim width and clear the suspension components?
That might actually be a viable alternative.
Accord's sales have dropped for the lastr 3 years or so, I'm not sure why you are saying they dont need to increase share. The sales gap between accord and camry has only gotten larger in recent years."
A benchmark does not mean that it has features no other car has. In fact today, there is no car (in any segment) that as exclusive features.
The Accord has been a gold standard in the midsize segment and is considered a benchmark by most of the automotive press.
Are there 4k rebates/discounts on the Camry? I would be quite surprised if this was true. Please don't tell me you are counting from MSRP downwards.
Or it could be the other way around - Saturn is making a lot of money on the lower end XE than the XR - adding a V6 and all those extras for only 2k!
In most cars that offer a choice of engines (except GM/Ford whose base engines are ancient, though GM is righting that now), there is a 2-3k difference in price. I don't see why you are so surprised if this is the case with the Accord as well.
Don't buy that; hard to believe you would not pick LX vs LX in marking out pricing differences. Its pretty basic stuff.
Don't worry on that account Elroy - for more than 800k people every year the Accord and Camry do just fine. What we are delaing with here is a group of people who just don't like the Accord OR the Camry - nothing can change that. Even before the 08 Accord came out, I can bet most of us knew what their comments would be.
There are others who compare features and decide that cars are equal and buy the cheaper ones - more power to them.
That is untrue. Counter-examples are the Fit's magic seats (unique in the low-end car segment), the Elantra SE's standard ESC (unique in the economy car segment), the Altima I4's standard 6-speed MT (unique in the mid-sized class), and the Chrysler minivans' Stow-and-Go and, now, pop-up rear table with swivel middle seats.
A case of sour grapes?
I am really curious to see how the new Accord will sell without the incentives it's had for the past couple of years... and how long it takes for incentives to return. That will tell us how good it really is, and how loyal the Honda fans are.
This is just nit picking, very small differences. Elantra has standard ESC, but not exclusive ESC. Other cars in its range have this feature available.
That way I can say Accord has cylinder deactivation exclusive, or a 190HP I4 exclusive, or ESP across the line; however I don't see these as maor differences making any car a benchmark.
Would you say the Fit is a benchmark because it has magic seats, or is the Elantra a benchmark because it has ESP standard, or the Chrysler minivans are benchmarks because of these features? No sir.
I am really curious to see how the new Accord will sell without the incentives it's had for the past couple of years... and how long it takes for incentives to return. That will tell us how good it really is, and how loyal the Honda fans are."
And how many Sonata buyers have bought with discounts/rebates ever since the present model was launched (each and everyone)? Would you say there have been more disocunts on the Accord than on the Sonata? Not much value as Hyundai would have us believe.
The Fit's magic seats are certainly unique in its class, and a distinguishing feature--whether it alone makes the Fit the benchmark for low-end cars is debatable. And Stow-and-Go is certainly a unique feature. And having standard ESC is an important feature--but one that the Accord does not have for its class, btw (Sonata beat it to the punch by 2-1/2 years).
just trying to be helpful, Loren
I think what they must be talking about is a fully loaded camry hybrid or and xle......which I assume would be around $35k. That is not very expensive compared to a lot of other cars, especially when you get a very nice fully loaded car.
Seems to be a wash in a way. L
Now c'mon backy, you know better than this! One person's value system is not the same as mine or yours. We've hashed this out with a mysteriously quiet Ford owner before - you right here with me!
I think I'm just a little TOO tired to be on here tonight and am heading to bed! (School and Work for 12 hours does that - even to this 20 year old!).
Night all!
The moral is, each buyer has to drive the cars against their criteria and see what comes out on top for them, and if it's the more expensive car, then how much is the difference worth to them?
L
L
and what a let down.
it just felt like a bigger civic to me. i no longer want anything to do with 4 cylinders. accord felt like a civic's brother and i certainly didn't felt any of 177hp. i'm not even sure if i liked it more than the previous gen lx. interior looked great in person, but the over all interior volume looked about the same. i thought it became bigger, but i didn't see or feel any difference inside. the cloth was too smooth IMO. it's almost slippery.
well, i'm going to test drive v6 whenever it comes out. but overall i'm thoroughly disappointed by honda. i would take the last gen's v6 over any 08's cylinder combination in a heartbeat. and the price is about the same anyway. probably cheaper because i can get a loaded exl v6 without the leather under 23k OTD.
anyway, i test drove azera again shortly after my trip to honda dealer. loved everything about it except the green interior light. what a turn off..
gosh, there is no car out there for me..
oh by the way, i'm test driving because i'm trading my 06 civic. we need something bigger.
Regards:
OldCEM
Did you get 17" wheels? I am pretty sure this is my only option at this point, and throwing some snow tire on the old rim or something.
I am not worried about sales volumes. If I were, I'd buy an F Series or Silverado.
the power meltdown. Oh yeah, the 80 MPH speedometers in Vettes and all cars, for that matter. Good God, I am having a flashback to 55 MPH speed limits. I best look ahead -- never back to that time. :surprise:
Fast forward to today. Well the Corvette is looking good, but I don't have that sort of spare change at the moment. The '07 CTS was pretty neat, but then again, a bit pricey, and I am not sold on it being worth the price, though it may well be. Those GM cars of Epsilon aren't so bad, as long as you avoid the ones with electric assist steering. Heck, most of the GM stuff is not too bad category. The new and exciting below $25K price stuff is yet to come, as in the RWD cars. Sure the New Malibu and other Epsilons are adequate, to very good, but I am talking something new and enticing, like perhaps the Aussie cars, or the Impala to come. There is the new stuff =2009?
L
So...is a $70k for a Corvette overpriced too? "Nicer" cars tend to cost more. Some people are happy spending $10 on a watch, whereas others prefer to spend $10,000 on a nicer watch. To each his own I guess.
The Fusion's 2.3L base engine is "ancient"? From what I can tell the original design is maybe 1 year older than Accord's 4 cyl.
Must be those old man cars you drive grad. :P
There is nothing odd about the statemtnt at all. The new Accord has caught up to 2007 Camry and Altima in power and features and thus I do not see what the big deal is supposed to be. Its great for an Accord since the current model is lacking so many features but its not offering anything new.
If we are basing "benchmark" status on sales I fail to see how the #2 car is the one to beat. Care to explain that one?
right now. Look at Edmunds TMV or your local paper if you have doubts. Camrys arent selling for anywhere near MSRP.
Um, why should they not be? They are not head and shoulders above the competition anymore. They are very competent cars as are most cars in this class. I think the '08 Malibu is very competitive and can stand toe to toe with any of those three cars you have on a pedastal. Sales dont mean much in terms of best in class. Just look at pickups or small car sales. Corolla is best selling small car but few would say its the best small car on the market.
As for Altima sales, it should be noted that the Impala outsold it last year and will this year as well. Not sure why you are saying the three japanese cars are in a class alone.
Actually just C&D. I would love for you to find the last comparison test the Accord won in another publication. MT, Edmunds, Motorweek and others do not consider the current car the benchmark. MT just gave the new model a SLIGHT edge over the Camry SE but the newest car in the segment is often the best for a short time. The Current Accord is a good car in a field of good cars. Its design, performance and mileage were all about average and its feature content/value equation were below average.
I did not say FACTORY REBATES, I am saying the actual selling price of a camry is $3k+ under MSRP these days. If the camry was another brand people would be saying Toyota has to "give them away" to keep volume up. A car that is in high demand doesnt need that kind of discounting to sell. The camrys natural volume is considerably lower than the 40k cars they are selling a month but its obvious that Toyota wants to keep sales very high.
if you measure cheapness of tire by how quickly they were than high cost sports tires are the worst out there. Many of them last less than 20k miles. "cheap" non performance tires will likely last far longer than that, even if they are Korean. I never knew you were so against imported parts on a car since you are such a Honda fan.
I am old enough to remember when the "big 3" thought the new comers from Japan with the funny names were minor irritants and could be mostly ignored...maybe the new comer from Korea shouldn't be.