Midsize Sedans 2.0

benjaminh

The detailed video by the reviewer below talks about the advantages of the LE trim compared to the other trims of the Camry. Because of the LE's 205/65/R16 tires it's the Camry with the most comfortable ride by a significant margin, and it also gets the highest mpg. According to his testing the LE is also the fastest of all the Camry models 0-60. The video tries to make the case that the Camry LE with a few options is almost like a low-cost Lexus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8MJTx3IVzk&t=1693s

Way back in 2002 the new Accord I got that year had 150 horsepower. It was peppy and fun to drive, but 0-60 was about 10 seconds.

So it's impressive that the 2025 Camry LE has 225 horsepower. According to C & D the Camry's 0-60 time is 6.8 seconds

This is the exact same number C & D got in testing my 2018 Acura TLX 4-cylinder.

Believe it or not, the 2025 Camry is slightly larger than a 1990 BMW 535i, and just as fast. The 6-cylinder 5-series for 1990 had a 0-60 time of 7 seconds flat.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a36016445/1990-bmw-535i-by-the-numbers/

The Camry LE with the convenience package, the cold weather package, and a sunroof has an msrp of $32,425 with destination. The msrp of my 2018 TLX Tech back in 2018 was $37,600. My TLX has 4-wheel steering and some other fancy stuff. I plan to keep my TLX for several years and many miles more, knock on wood, but if I had to get a sedan right now I think the Camry LE loaded up with some options is what I might go with. Since I drive around 12k miles a year I'd probably save about a thousand a year on gas.

benjaminh

1990 BMW 535i tires: 225/60R15

2025 Camry LE tires: 205/65/R16

Closer than I would have thought. Might be nice to have slightly wider tires on the Camry LE, but I just looked it up and they are wider than was on my 2002 Accord LX, which rode on 195/65R15.

1990 BMW 535i length 185.5, width 69, height 55.6, passenger space 91 ft, trunk 13 ft, weight 3600, 16 mpg, 208 hp.
msrp $45k in 1990, which would be about $110k today. 0-60 7 seconds.

2025 Camry LE length 193.5, width 72.4, height 56.9, passenger space 99 ft, trunk 15 ft, weight 3450, 51 mpg, 225 hp.
msrp with moonroof, power driver's seat, heated seats, smart entry, auto dimming mirror with compass, heated leather steering wheel, etc,: $32.5K. 0-60 7 seconds.

From my pov that's impressive progress in 35 years.

roadburner

A guy on another board has his radio fail on his Kia a few months after the basic warranty. (not the powertrain) ran out. The worthless service advisor gave him a phone number and told him to call and see if Kia would offer a goodwill adjustment. When I worked at BMW that was the service writer's job.

stickguy

serious value at that price on the LE.

explorerx4

If you look at the owner reported mileage, the Camry is only averaging 46 mpg.

benjaminh

Mpg on the Camry changes based on the model. The front wheel drive LE is rated at 50, and the reviewer above said he could even beat that in the real world. But if you get the XSE with awd the epa mpg goes down to 43. So yeah...46 does sound like a good average for all Camry models.

benjaminh

For a while my wife really wanted a Camry because the mpg was so good + Toyota reliability. But once you add the AWD she wanted, the red color, and other options, the msrp of the LE is $34.5k . The reality of supply and demand meant that our local Toyota dealer was hoping for $3k more than that for protection packages or whatever. So then suddenly it's 37.5k + TTL. We were doing a normal downpayment, but to avoid cashing out things were financing instead of just buying it with a check. No trade-in since we'd given her CR-V to one of our grown children in another city who needed it. Toyota does offer financing on the Camry, but at that time Toyota's interest rate was 5%.

Meanwhile the Outback Premium had a list price with lots of options of $36k, but they were $2k off msrp right from the get go, had 1.9% financing, and the red color she wanted was free on the Outback.

She really wanted a station wagon or SUV anyway, and not a sedan, for runs to Lowe's, trips, etc.

Suddenly the real cost of the Camry looked like it was about $6k more than the Outback. Savings in gas at our relatively low prices where we live meant that the Camry might save around $700 a year in gas over the Outback, but that still meant 8+ years before a Camry "paid off" for us compared to an Outback, and she really wanted a station wagon anyway.

The higher ground clearance and seating position of the Outback was much more comfortable for her. And the 0-60 in 7 seconds with the Camry doesn't matter to her. 0-60 in 8.5-9 in the Outback without the turbo is fast enough. The back seat of the Camry has hard plastics on the doors, while the Outback is more Acura-like in the back seat, and the seats even recline.

So for her the Camry ultimately didn't make sense. But for me it would if I were in the market.

andres3

I agree a warranty you don't need is better than a super long warranty you will need. My time is valuable; I want the car that doesn't need warranty work.

benjaminh

The five year Cost to Own for a 2025 Camry LE with an msrp of c. $31k is unmatched as far as I know. The Tesla Model 3 (below) is likely to cost about $20k more over five years.

https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/camry/2025/cost-to-own/?style=402017592

stickguy

I liked the old days when I had my maverick for 15 months and made a profit even including gas and insurance. They paid me to drive that one.

roadburner

benjaminh said:

The five year Cost to Own for a 2025 Camry LE with an msrp of c. $31k is unmatched as far as I know. The Tesla Model 3 (below) is likely to cost about $20k more over five years.

https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/camry/2025/cost-to-own/?style=402017592

I'll just say that the TCO numbers for my cars have been substantially inaccurate- at least with regards to maintenance costs. As always, YMMV.

andres3

roadburner said:

benjaminh said:

The five year Cost to Own for a 2025 Camry LE with an msrp of c. $31k is unmatched as far as I know. The Tesla Model 3 (below) is likely to cost about $20k more over five years.

https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/camry/2025/cost-to-own/?style=402017592

I'll just say that the TCO numbers for my cars have been substantially inaccurate- at least with regards to maintenance costs. As always, YMMV.

if the TCO numbers were super accurate, Edmunds could sell "pre-paid" maintenance and repair (extended warranty) plans and virtually guarantee themselves a good profit.

benjaminh

How the Camry has grown over the years...

The 1st generation of Camry was introduced in the US in 1983 iirc. It was advertised as being roomy, and it was compared to the Corolla of the time, but it was still a small car. In fact, a Camry from the 80s is smaller than a Corolla today.

1st generation 1984: length 174 inches, width 66.5, height 55

2nd generation 1988: length 178 inches, width 66.7, height 55

3rd generation 1992: length 181 inches, width 66.7, height 55

4th generation 1996: length 187 inches, width 70, height 56

Current 2025- Camry length 193.5 inches, width 72.4, height 57


Current 2026 Corolla length 182.5 inches, width 70, height 56.5

roadburner

Almost all cars have grown bigger and heavier even if they aren't hybrids or EVs. I prefer cars that weigh under 4,000 pounds and are less than 185' long. Apparently very few people share my opinion.