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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Agree on the Focus. Actually just skipped my mind(guess I've been reading too much about the Skyactive stuff) but you're right it would have made a lot more sense.
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    For me Hybrids are just too expensive to warrant the return. Hybrids are on average $3-$5,000 more than a normally aspirated vehicle. That will buy you a whole lot of gas over the lifetime of the vehicle. Plus, many automakers are pushing these 4cyl engines to reach 40MPG in smaller cars. Another for me is the lifetime of these batteries. What is the cost, both economic and ecological to replace them? I just don't feel it is a smart money choice to buy a Hybrid.
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    Did a quick check.
    The Fusion Hybrid invoice is $26,370 41/36MPG
    Camry invoice $25,208. 43/39MPG
    You must look at the options to compare apples to apples. So, there is about a $1,000 advantage to the Camry along with a 2-3MPG advantage.
    Now, for yourself. Compare a 4cyl Camry/Fusion in automatic for MPG/cost.
  • samm43samm43 Posts: 195
    edited November 2011
    While I don't disagree with your reasoning (not at ALL actually) some, rationalize the price of (potentially..depending on a person's balance of logic vs conviction) their pacification that purchasers of hybrids gleam when pulling up in front of their local golf club or child's school in their quest to be considered 'green'.
    In those same families, you are liable to also find a big block powered gas SUV idling to retain cabin heat or A/C in front of the local convenience store.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    their pacification that purchasers of hybrids gleam when pulling up in front of their local golf club or child's school in their quest to be considered 'green'.

    You must live in a really different kind of neighborhood than I do. I've never seen anybody driving a hybrid that looked like they were "gleaming" or that appeared to be on a "quest to be considered green". I've got a couple of neighbors down the street that drive Priuses and they seem to be just everyday normal people that are trying to save a buck and really just get a car for transportation only.

    Where does this hate crap come from anyway? Does dislike of hybrids by some people automatically extend to the people that drive them for no good reason? It just seems strange.
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    I too know a handful of people that own Hybrids. A few have told me their resoning for forking out the extra $3-4,000 is for environmental reasons/pollution reduction reasons. However, when confronted about cost of battery on the environment and battery replacement they don't really have an answer. Battery replacement is still a bit question for me. How will it be recycled? Will it be recycled? How much to replace? Warranty? How many technicians have replaced one? Will there be problems?
    Hybrids need to come down in price, at least within $1,000 dollars for me to even think about buying one.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    My questions also, good points. Spewing less pollutants but throwing the batteries into a landfill....
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    We recycle all kinds of other batteries. I get paid for old car batteries or sump pump batteries. What would make you think that a large hybrid battery would just get thrown in a landfill? C'mon man.

    Priuses have around for 10 years and I haven't read of any large number of failures or replacements. I think most of the hybrid manufacturers have pretty good warranties on the batteries. I'm not ready for a hybrid personally but it isn't because of the's because of the drive.
  • fushigifushigi Chicago suburbsPosts: 1,374 is an article from July about Ford's reliability on the batteries & electric motors in their hybrids. Quotes:

    its hybrid fleet having racked up 80 million miles in heavy-duty use

    "Out of the 42,629,318 battery cells in use – which are the size of a household D-cell battery -- only five cells have failed. That huge number of cells was used to make 190,000 individual battery packs for hybrid vehicles."

    "Ford currently has 380,000 electric motors in the field packed inside those 190,000 hybrids sold so far and out of that number of electric motors not a single one has failed so far. "

    So maybe there's not much info on battery harm to the environment because their simply hasn't been anything significant enough to measure so far.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Why because I can see these cars and batteries just getting dumped.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    You may see it but I don't. Very few cars less than 20 years old are just "dumped". It will be quite awhile until hybrids get that old and by then I'm sure 100% will be recycled not just to save the environment but because of $$$$. Just about all cars these days are recycled to a very large degree. I would think that the depleted battery in a hybrid would probably have value...maybe even considerable value. This would cause it to reclaimed.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I think these batteries have the same value as my cell phone battery.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Ha. Funny. Good one.
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 4,134
    Personally, I don't believe everything I read. Just because something is written does not make it true!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2009 Nissan Versa SL Hatch (daughter #1) / 2008 Hyundai Accent GLS (daughter #2)

  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    sam43 posted:

    Purchasers of hybrids gleam when pulling up in front of their local golf club or child's school in their quest to be considered 'green'.

    Most hybrids are barely indistinguishable from their normally aspirated counter parts, the exceptions being the Prius and the Sonata. Our '06 Highlander only had a small 3' X 2' "synergy drive" emblem on the hatch.

    There's gonna be a tidal wave of new hybrids as the CAFE regs tighten.
    sam43 must be jealous or jilted! LOL!
  • fushigifushigi Chicago suburbsPosts: 1,374
    Given your post, I can say the same. ;)
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • samm43samm43 Posts: 195
    edited December 2011
    If you are trying to make a point, it would be more fair to include all of my quote, that way others can see the (accurate) context in which the post was communicating.
    Here is my entire quote:
    (notice that while you started the sentence with a capital P in the word 'purchasers' suggesting that that is how I started my sentence, the context is completely manipulated if starting it the way you did.
    (also notice some key words I have highlighted)

    "While I don't disagree with your reasoning (not at ALL actually) some, rationalize the price of (potentially..depending on a person's balance of logic vs conviction) their pacification that purchasers of hybrids gleam when pulling up in front of their local golf club or child's school in their quest to be considered 'green'.
    In those same families, you are liable to also find a big block powered gas SUV idling to retain cabin heat or A/C in front of the local convenience store."

    Puts a difference swing on it doesn't it?

    And just to clarify, are you suggesting that there is a similar number of 06 hyrid Highlanders sold as there are Pruii?

    I am neither jealous nor jilted, and can't comprehend why you found that funny enough to laugh out loud but glad you are enjoying the thread.

    Enjoy your 06 Highlander hybrid.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Puts a difference swing on it doesn't it?

    No, not at all. Your post still appears condescending toward those that own hybrids. Sounds like a personal problem to me.
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    A succinct reply that says it all!
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    edited December 2011
    Cars said to be very quiet are the 2012 Camry and the 2013 Malibu. Both cars market quietness as a major selling feature, especially the 2013 Malibu. The 2013 Malibu is not on sale yet, but they talk and talk and talk about how quiet it's going to be.
    Does anyone know which is going to be the absolute quietest with the most road noise blocked?
    Is either as quiet as a new Avalon?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    I have read that the new Verano is very quiet also. It's closer to a compact, but you didn't say "mid-sized sedans."

    I haven't driven the new Passat but I wonder how quiet it is?
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    I'm not considering the Verano. Too expensive, poor fuel economy MPG for the small size and it didn't have some feature I wanted at the time I had considered it (probably backup camera).
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 8,998
    What is the best Midsize Sedan sold today, and why?

    Pound for pound, dollar for dollar?
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • I like the Mazda 6. I drive a 07 6i 5-door. I think it's styling and handling are great and sets it apart from the plain vanilla Camry and fughly Accord. It's a great value for the money with good factory incentives. The dealers are willing to deal on it. You will not see 50-100 of these a day. You will not be driving the same boring car as everyone else. Also, for the current year they are still being made down I-75 from me in Flat Rock, MI in the same plant that makes the Mustang. You can't get more USA made than that. Mine has 86,000 trouble free miles on it. I plan to look at the new model due in 2013, but the current one is a great value. :shades:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    By the numbers Camry is the #1 seller in the US and for good reason. I usually rent a Camry when I go out of town, good gas mileage, no drama, comfortable, delivers.

    Everyone has their own opinion. 2012 Camry looks like an enticing vehicle.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,024
    A reporter is looking to interview midsize or small car owners who recently switched from Honda or Toyota to Chrysler, Ford or GM. Email no later than Thursday, January 5, 2012 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your decision and your experience so far.


    Need help navigating? - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Share your vehicle reviews

  • crankeeecrankeee Posts: 298
    Andres: Lots of good choices at various price points out there. We just bought 2012 Sonata GLS with PEP - list $22,450. Good value for the money and lots of features with a great warranty (if Hyundai delivers & establishes a bulletproof reputation for their cars). Camry SE also in the running with the new Malibu. Dealer service is a major factor and depends on those in our area. Hyundai seemed to fit the bill and the price was right. Initial intown MPG seems to be right on the EPA numbers so with gas bound to go up, with Chines demand, that was also a major factor (24/35). Time for us to pull the trigger with interest rates and car demand increasing. good luck.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    Home run IMO. 1.6 ecoboost, 2.0 ecoboost and possibly 2 hybrid models. Embargo is lifted in a hour or so - won't have to guess for long.

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,001
    1.6 EB - 26 city/37 hwy
    2.0 EB - mileage not given but this is the performance version - expect 250-270 hp
    2.0 Hybrid 47 city/44 hwy

    And the biggest surprise of all - a 2.0 Energi plug-in hybrid!

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    edited January 2012
    Pretty nice. I see a lot of other cars in this but then again just about every new design has things that look a little like things that came before. Some will [non-permissible content removed] that they are copying but there is only so much different you can do. I see Sonata tailights, Mazda6 tailpipes, Aston Martin grill(althought the whole front end kind of reminds me of a smaller Taurus. I have to give to Ford for keeping this so well under wraps. Also like that they appear to have gotten rid of the piano black plastic in the interior which has always looked cheap IMO.

    Are those official EPA numbers or Ford's estimates? Either way they look good.
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