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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I would have to see it in person, the rendering doesn't do anything for me.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,000
    Considering you like Camrys - I'm not surprised in the least.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,000
    What do you think about Aston Martins? I'm guessing you don't like those either?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,000
    I think Job 1 is 1Q2012 so it should be the production version.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    edited October 2011
    Aston Martins are nice, this is not an aston martin. it looks like a morph between a generic american sedan and a generic japanese sedan. And it's not that I don't like Fords, I just bought one.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    ... Has anyone seen the Mazda Takeri Concept photos? It's supposed to make the Tokyo Auto Show and be a good indicator of the next Mazda 6.

    One word: Wow!


    I know it's a "concept", but based on the Minagi Concept that's translated to the upcoming CX-5 (with only small detail changes), I've got high hopes for the next 6. :shades:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    It looks like an Infiniti M copycat. What's up with that?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,000
    It has a lot of Aston Martin styling cues, especially the rear haunches which you can't see in this picture.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    Speaking of lots of Altimas on the road... I've spent the week driving two Altima 2.5 S rentals. The first was in Dallas, had 25k miles. The 2nd was in KC, has 15k miles.

    It's been a strange experience. The Altima with 25k miles was one of the worst driving experiences I've had (outside a Corolla or Matrix) in memory. The dash rattled. The engine sounded like an ancient diesel most of the time. The ride was hard. The driver's seat was too flat, so I felt like I was sitting on it vs. in it. The whole car felt cheap, except the HVAC controls which I like the design of.

    Then I get another Altima in KC (it was either that or a Corolla... nuff said). This one had only 15k miles, otherwise the same equipment. What a difference! The ride was quiet and smooth. The car felt solid, no rattles/squeaks. The driver's seat felt better, although still too flat for my taste. The engine is still noisy on warmup and acceleration, but not as much as the other rental with 25k miles.

    These experiences lead me to ask: who buys all these Altimas compared to very nice cars like Fusion, Mazda6, Camry, Accord, Sonata (note spelling, folks... SonAta), the new Passat, etc.? What do they see in them? How could a car be so used-up after only 25k miles? How could anyone stand a modern mid-sized car with an engine that raucous? Why would CR rate it so highly?

    Maybe that's why I see so many of them when I rent cars.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,584
    My opinion: Goshn = Le Cost Cutter = Cheapness (Maybe he's trying to bring back the 80's!)
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    I like it generally but that schnoz (front overhang) has got to go. It looks like Jimmy Durante.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Lol, funny. Agreed.
  • You should check out a Hyundai Sonata. I drove one with 22K miles on it.

    I was just disgusted a one year old car with 22K miles on this could be so loud and harsh. Made me turn off that brand in a heartbeat!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Odd; I have a Sonata with 63,000 miles on it. It is world's quieter than my Accord that preceded it, and rides softer too. The Accord was stiffly sprung, handled beautifully for a family car, but the Hyundai is much more compliant and quiet in comparison.

    Some days I miss my 06 Accord (on a fun road), but the 09 Sonata suits my needs better. Still has plenty of warranty left, 83 more horses, more features, and returns low 30s on the freeway, which is where the majority of my drive-time is spent. I'd recommend Hyundai to anyone.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Hi grad,

    You may recommend the '09 but I can't recommend the '11. I guess I can recommend it, if I don't talk about the handling and the styling. I liked mostly everything else.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Nor can I dispute you - I've never driven the '11.

    Yes, my '09 may not be exciting to look at (Cocoa Metallic GLS V6 with moonroof), but it's a welcome treat when I drive it over my '96 Accord, which I still have. It has 232k miles and is my daily commuter/beater since I drive 90mi/day round trip with work.

    It's funny, the 130 horse compact Accord is averaging 32 mpg; the same that my Sonata gets on the same commute.

    Times have changed, and even my Sonata is out of date with a 5-speed automatic and 3.3L V6, but I still like it. :) The 1996 Accord, though... that's love.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Rental cars aren't the best determination as they all are not taken care of, properly maintained, and they are beat to heck by everyone who uses them. I've had the same experience you had with a Camry, Malibu, and a Fusion rental but I don't go on questioning why people buy those vehicles, its a little presumptuous to do so. Actually, if you look at this C&D article, the altima was not any louder than the other ones at full throttle and cruise.

    Plus, I see just as many Camry's, Fusion's, and Malibu's as rental car fodder like I do the Altima. It has nothing to do with the car, but the incentive spending Toyota, Nissan, Ford, and GM have. The domestics still lead the pack in that respect.

    Seat comfort is another highly subject quality. I found the seats in the Altima pretty comfortable, but the ones in the Accord and Sonata to be too firm and uncomfortable after just a few minutes. ibu-hyundai-sonata-toyota-camry-ford-fusion-dodge-avengerthe-buzzard-and-baloney- -brigade-1.pdf
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    Rental cars are not properly maintained? Really? What do you base that on?

    I think that how a rental car holds up under a year plus of hard use is a great indicator of how it will hold up in multiple years' use for someone like me. I've driven many rental cars with 25K+ miles. Some were like brand new. Others were gently worn, as you'd expect for a car with 25k+ miles. Then there's that Altima in Dallas...

    One of the reasons I started paying attention to Hyundai was a Gen 2 Elantra rental in 2000 in Dallas. It had about 25k miles on it. But it was tight, rattle-free, nothing falling off, interior and exterior still looked like new. That was not long after I had rented a brand-new Focus in Chicago that literally had parts falling off it.

    As for the Altima, one trait all of them (all 2.5s) I've rented shared, no matter what the mileage, is that the engines clatter like an old diesel warming up and on acceleration. No other mid-sized cars I've driven do that. The Altima I rented in KC this week was quite nice (the one with 15k miles) except for the noisy engine. But nothing special. I'd take a Fusion, Accord, Mazda6, Sonata, Optima, or Legacy over it in a minute (and maybe a Passat and 2012 Camry, but I haven't driven those yet).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    I've driven many 2011-12 rental Sonatas. Some brand new, some with 20-25k+ miles. I've liked all of them. Maybe because they were GLSes with 16" wheels. The Sonatas with larger wheels may have a harsher ride. Also I liked the styling (inside and out), interior room, driving position, power, handling, and fuel economy. All were better than the Altimas I drove this week. But I have a hard time finding them when I rent cars. Probably because I usually have to rent from Hertz and they don't have many/any Hyundais in their fleet anymore.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Yes, we all know you love Hyundai, something you like to remind us of at every opportunity.

    I'd take the Altima over the Camry, Malibu, Accord, or Fusion any day. My point is, your experience proves nothing. Rental cars are properly maintained, what world do you live in? I've had some with two bald tires (never rotated properly), completely warped/grinding rotors, burning oil odors because the oil was never change, no windshield wiper fluid, need I go on? I have a Maxima with 27k miles, nothing is falling off, rattle free, interior and exterior look like new, etc but I take care of it.

    I had two rental cars recently, a Camry and Malibu where the console actually detached off in my hands. Even Hyundai is guilty of incentive spending and I've started to see the new Sonata creep in to the rental lots. The only one that is harder to find as a rental is the Accord.

    I'll agree, the Altima is starting to show its age, its the oldest in the midsize sedan segment now, so its not's going to be as nice and flashy as a brand new Sonata or Camry, but they are newer models. But, the Altima is still selling well and gets decent reviews across the board from CR, C&D, MT, JDP, etc. I'm actually not crazy about the new Camry, but never have been to begin with, too boring.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    edited October 2011
    I have a Maxima with 27k miles, nothing is falling off, rattle free, interior and exterior look like new, etc but I take care of it.

    "Your experience proves nothing." :P

    I take care of my cars also (including my daily driver, a NISSAN Sentra). So if a car can hold up under 25K or more of hard rental use, that's a plus in my book. That's all I'm trying to say. Also that some cars have, in my 25 years' experience in renting hundreds of cars, held up better than others.

    Actually I think the Galant might be the oldest mid-sized design now (not that anyone cares), followed by the Fusion. But a new Fusion is coming soon. When will the new Altima be here?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,229
    "You thought the styling on the Optima was nice until you sat in it? What does sitting in a car have to do with the exterior styling which is what I was talking about?"

    Initially I thought the Optima itself was nice and worth a look based on the exterior styling. Then I sat in it. I hated the interior. The interior of our '11 Fusion isn't anything to write home about but it was a lot less offending and more modern looking than the Optima's IMO. The whole IP integrated with the center console look has to go just as it did once before in the 80s.

    "I realize styling is subjective but I think the vast majority would agree the Sonata styling has been a tremendous hit since being introduced. Sales numbers bear that out as well."

    I do recognize that but I still think the design is awful and as you've probably read in another post I'm not alone. It looks like a blob that hit a wall to me. People buy the Camry and Accord in droves so basing sales on styling holds no ground to me.

    I give Hyundai/Kia credit for going to an I4 lineup though. Looks like most mfrs are following suit and I think that's the way to go. I was always a more displacement is better type of guy but our Fusion is an I4 and it has plenty of power for us. It's also a hoot to drive which is something the Sonota and Optima can't claim based on reviews I've read.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    I was STRICTLY talking about the Sonata/Optima exterior styling of which the VAST majority(I know you will read others that don't like it) seem to like including just about every professional auto reviewer. Camry and Accord sales are based on their longevity and perception of reliability...not styling. The reason I cited Sonata/Optima sales is that it is because of their styling that sales have taken off like crazy. Same with Elantra. I realize the drivetrains changed for 2011 but that isn't what generated all the buzz and subsequent sales. I don't own or even plan on buying any of them but have to give them their kudos for something they're doing right.

    Re the Optima interior. I'll agree it has, from what I've read, about a 50-50 like/dislike ratio. You say the Optima dash is offending? I don't think I've ever in my life been offended by a dash or interior of any car. Didn't like, sure, but offended? I personally like the "cockpit" feel in the Optima versus the swooping dash of the Sonata but that's just me and I don't try to come off as an authority on style.
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Posts: 750
    Rental cars aren't the best determination as they all are not taken care of, properly maintained, and they are beat to heck by everyone who uses them.

    I agree. If people think that rental cars are in better shape than their cars, they probably didn't wash, detail or maintain their cars for the last 2 years.

    I used to drive rental cars a lot in early 2000s and they all looked like $hit b/c renters like to abuse these cars so much. One of my friends likes to floor his rental cars every time he can. He even used the from quarter panel to scrape out the mud from his shoes.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I'm actually not sure. Nissan has moved back to 6 yr model design cycles so I figure by the summer/fall of next year the 2013 Altima will arrive. I think around the same time will be getting the 2013 Malibu redesign as well.

    As I've tried to point out, your bashing an entire car model that sells more than 250k models per year that constantly gets good to great reviews and rankings, especially considering its 6 years old.

    I'm not that crazy about this segment though as too many of any of these mid sizer's end up on the road. I like to stay with the premium sedan and ELLPS segments so that I have a car that is not so numerous, but that is just me.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    As I've tried to point out, your bashing an entire car model ...

    The title of my original post was, "Tale of two Altimas." Not sure how you can call that bashing of an entire car model. I talked about how nice one rental Altima was and how bad the other was. I also noted that every current gen Altima 2.5 I've driven, regardless of miles, has a raucous engine on warmup and acceleration. Even that isn't bashing an entire car model as it only relates to the 2.5's with CVT, not to 2.5 sticks or V6s, as I haven't driven those.

    Anyway, I am entitled to my opinion of the cars I drive just as much as you are. If you don't want to read my opinions, use the Page Down key. Or go to the Sentra discussion and see my posts there if you are only interested in "feeling the love" for Nissan and not reading anything negative about the brand. Oh wait... I think I've said a few negative things about my Sentra there in addition to positive things. So forget that idea.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited October 2011
    Blah Blah Blah as usual...

    Good, if your entitled to your opinion, so am I. I had a 2011 Sonata rental about 4 months ago.

    Who buys all these Sonata's compared to very nice cars like Fusion, Mazda6, Camry, Accord, Altima, the new Passat, etc.? What do they see in them? How could a car be so sluggish with its base engine, have a 6spd that reacts lethargically, too much hunting for low gears, have a steering wheel that is so off center/artificial feeling, mediocre stopping distant/mushy brakes after only several thousand miles? How could anyone stand a modern mid-sized car with that kind of driving characteristics? Plus, the front seats are so firm, they push in on your back and become uncomfortable after 15 minutes of driving. Why would CR rate it so highly?
  • DISCLAIMER - the following is pure sarcasm:

    Well that seals it. I was thinking about buying a new Sonata, but after reading this thorough review from smarty666 which points out all these problems, I'd have to be an idiot to buy one of those cars!
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 KC MetroPosts: 6,869
    edited October 2011
    is the Suzuki Kizashi. Suzuki made a comfortable sedan with a competent engine with an ample Warranty.

    Suzuki Kizashi

    I test drove one and the ride was very comfortable. The pushbutton start was new to me and all of the buttons for HVAC and stereo looked easy to manipulate, I don't know for sure because I didn't need to use them. The blinker and gearshift worked plainly and clearly well. The one I drove was an automatic CVT, I was ready to buy a 6-speed stick shift Kizashi in red but couldn't work out a deal with the Suzuki dealer in Henderson, NV.

    I may yet buy a Kizashi, the car took bumps and easily just flattened them out. I just love the look of the Kizashi, it looks like a VW Jetta or maybe more an older Passat on some serious steroids. I pushed it hard just once in to a curve and the Kizashi was ready to play, it held on a dime just like my '08 Lancer GTS. I am a fan and I don't see that changing any time soon.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,905
    CR must have a different opinion. And C/D (10Best). And Edmunds (topped Accord and Mazda6i).

    As for a sluggish base engine... Sonata beat Altima, Accord, and Mazda6 in Edmunds' road tests, 0-30 and 0-60. So looks like much of the mid-sized class with I4s is "sluggish" in your opinion, is that right?

    The Altima does have nice handling for a mid-sized family car. I don't think it's any better than the likes of Fusion, Mazda6, or Sonata (for 3), but it's one of the car's best features I think. That and the smooth and logical HVAC controls. Wish more cars had layouts like that.
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