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Toyota RAV4 Noises and Sounds

pozjpozj Member Posts: 4
edited February 2017 in Toyota
Hello,
I have a 2007 Rav4 with 10K miles on it.
The car has developed a noise and I am wondering if anyone else has had this issue.
The noise started out to be a faint "scraping" sound. I thought I was dragging the tailpipe on the asphalt. I looked underneath (not lifted) .
There is nothing hanging down . The noise comes and goes , varies in loudness. It now has developed a "screeching " type noise that lasts about 10 seconds. This comes and goes as well.

These sounds are heard (comes and goes)during driving or idling.

The things these noises are NOT associated with are:

braking
turning
no particular gear other than drive..have noticed the scraping sound subtly present during reverse (backing out of driveway.

Location of sound-underneath, sounds like just to the rear of driver seat or towards the back of car.

Any thoughts appreciated.
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Comments

  • pozjpozj Member Posts: 4
    Update:

    backed the car out of the garage this morning...slight scratching/screeching sound. Put it in drive ..VERY loud continuous scratching/screeching noise. continuous.
    Car is being towed in to service station . Won't drive it :cry: :mad: .
    Has this ever happened to you?
  • sdc2sdc2 Member Posts: 780
    Could be a lot of things...from something serious to as simple as a rock caught in the brake rotor dust shield...here's hoping it is a simple thing.
  • pozjpozj Member Posts: 4
    sdc2
    Thanks for the reply. You hit the nail on the head. It was a rock that was caught in the brake rotor shield. :surprise: PHEW!

    Our roads are atrocious and full of potholes. My car sounds so sweet now. It is amazing what noises it was making from something that simple.
    :)
  • sdc2sdc2 Member Posts: 780
    Cool, glad it was the cheap one ;)

    Yeah, that can make a hellacious noise, you think something important is twisting apart... :surprise:
  • kkrtrekkkrtrek Member Posts: 51
    sdc2,

    WOW! That was one helluva diagnosis--online. Color me impressed.
  • sdc2sdc2 Member Posts: 780
    Thanks :shades:

    But you'll note I left a lot of wiggle room in my "diagnosis"...helps the batting average ;)
  • std1std1 Member Posts: 1
    have not experienced this with my 2007 rav4 se v6.

    but i do get a rattle from the windscreen and also when braking to a stop. the dealer says he can't duplicate these problems.
  • pinkrunnergirlpinkrunnergirl Member Posts: 2
    I just purchased a used 2004 RAV4 L package AWD with 45,500 miles. It is my first car and I am unfamiliar with "common vs uncommon car noises" so I just wanted to make sure I was not hearing anything suspicious. I notice this sound, like an "extra rev" as my car (automatic) shifts from 1st to second gear, the RPM gage does not spike up or anything (it moves normally) but I swear I hear this noise and only when it shifts from 1 to 2 or goes from 2 to 1 when slowing down. Its hard to describe but it just kind of sounds like a "higher pitched" residual rev noise.....
  • hockeyeasthockeyeast Member Posts: 43
    LOL, talk about noises in this gal, but shes been a solid car. 173,000 and going strong!! Swear it's haunted. :surprise:
  • 2002rav42002rav4 Member Posts: 2
    My wife drives our 2002 RAV4 2WD Limited with 45K miles.

    I hear a very intermittent whistle coming from the dashboard.

    It can happen when starting the car but mostly happens when stopped or right after the car is turned off.
    It sounds just like a human whistle, one note, varied length, increasing in pitch. As if a gas is venting through a reed from the A/C.
    I live on Maui and almost always have the A/C on. I took it to the Toyota Dealer here and they were unable to fix it and never heard it.

    It's very intermittent and might only happen once a day or less.

    Although my wife is enjoying the positive attention (the whistling) she's had enough. :) HELP please.
  • pitkeyspitkeys Member Posts: 18
    Went to pass a 40mph slow van today. Was in Drive on the AT which kicked down to 3rd. When the pass was completed I pulled back into the lane and let off on the accelerator BUT!!!! The car kept accelerating in 3rd, climbed above redline at 7k and kept accelerating very fast.

    Shifted up to 4th and it kept accelerating. Same deal in 5th. Cruise was off. Fully free motion in accelerator pedal. Pulled it back to neutral and revs pegged at somewhere way North of 8K. By now we're going WARP 10 with lots of ugly blue smoke pouring out the back.

    Killed ignition just before hitting the car in front of us. Drove off the road at hyperspeed, hit the puckerbrush, and luckily got it restrained and stopped without bashing anything.

    Probably slaughtered the brakes and engine both. Haven't seen that much smoke in back ever on a civilian road. Sure smelled bad in the engine bay.

    After calming down the dog(tied down in the wayback), tried to start engine and it ***immediately** raced towards the redline.

    Shut it down and got towed to the dealer. Disconnected the battery, reconnected and tried to start again. Engine races to redline. Shut it off.

    This happens in neutral and park. Obviously nobody dares engage the AT. The drive-by-wire is supposed to have a rev limiter at around 3500 when the AT is in neutral. That's either hoaky or the dealer's wrong about it. And, at least on this car, there is no rev limiter north of 7K (or it also failed).

    Checked for any obstructions around the accelerator. None. NADA!, nothing hanging up the pedal.

    Went to engine and banged my fist on it in frustration. Dealer later started it and it idled the way it should.

    With only 13k miles on this 2007, it's still under warranty. Am waiting to see what the dealer discovers. But I doubt if I'll ever trust this car again and certainly won't let my wife drive at ever again. It's a killer!!!

    We're going to insist that all the electronic controls are replaced at the minimum. Will also do all the sleuthing for engine damage. If Toyota gives any trouble about all of this, we'll be in court with witnesses. This car is a killer!

    This car is very cherry, has never, until today, been off road. Has been maintained by the book, and has never given any trouble until this.

    Since the 07 Sport is drive-by-wire, there probably isn't anything like a gungy linkage, stone stuck in a spring, or any of those hijinks. It's acting like something severely wrong in the electrics. Whatever it is, it is very dangerous and life threatening. We were very fortunate today that we didn't buy it, or hurt anyone else. If this has happened in the city we were headed for, there probably would have been some nasty unpleasantness.

    We have filed a safety alert/complaint with Toyota and the NHTSA. Toyota was blase about it, but the feds are very concerned and say they'll be on Toyota's case immediately. We'll see. Have also talked to ConsumerReports.

    We're supposed to hear from some mucky-muck at Toyota. We'll see.

    In any case we are sending out a warning to all our friends who drive similar Toyotas. We don't want anyone to buy it because of Toyota's flawed drive-by-wire.

    Sincerely hope this doesn't happen to anyone else. It's an adrenaline rush we don't need and you don't want.
  • mexateckmexateck Member Posts: 9
    Okay, I have this loud hum that sporadically appears from somewhere in the vehicle and seems to be amplified within the cabin. I am not completely sure, but I think the hum is either coming from the power steering unit or the fuel pump. Has anyone else run into this same thing?
  • arupparupp Member Posts: 2
    Hello everyone,

    I would really appreciate some help if someone could lend it. I own a 2001 RAV4 with 91,000 miles on it. Recently it started making a noise that three mechanics cannot seem to agree on. Here is the description:

    The Noise:

    The car is making a relatively loud high-pitched hissing noise that sounds like it could be either (a) air sucked through a system incorrectly or (b) a piece of metal lightly scraping against another piece of metal.

    The Conditions:

    The car makes the sound only when it is (a) idling (AC on or off) and (b) when the gas pedal is being pushed after it has been not touched (i.e., when accelerating) or when it is coming back to that position (e.g., when I let it go because I am going downhill). In other words, the noise is not there - and definitely not simply overpowered by engine noise - when the gas pedal is pushed down (except for the first few millimeters).

    The Analyses (so far):

    One mechanic thought it was the tensioner or associated belt but replacing both the tensioner pulley and the belt did not fix it. Then he did not know. Another mechanic thought it might be the injection system but was not sure either and suggested living with it for now. One Toyota mechanic thought it was the tensioner at first but then thought it might be air. He later concluded that it was the throttle body that needed to be replaced for 1500 dollars.

    However, the second mechanic could not believe that they could be sure about this - he thinks it might simply be their best guess and merely a "broad attack fix" so to speak. All mechanics seemed to agree, though, that there is nothing dangerous happening and that the car would not be damaged if I ignored the noise. As a scientist, it drives me nuts not to know what it is, though, and of course I am afraid that I will have to spend 1500 dollars one day as we simply cannot afford that with our young son right now.

    I am not sure whether this makes sense but if anyone could help I would appreciate it!

    Thank you very much!
  • toyotafamily4toyotafamily4 Member Posts: 3
    Not sure if I have the same problem, but it is the same location. I have a 2003 Sequoia which has been having a RANDOM piercing or screeching noise coming from the floor near the brake pedal. Sometimes it is hard to tell where it is coming from but the Toyota svc. mgr. who witnessed it, thought this was the location the sound was coming from. After leaving it at Toyota dealer for 4 days, they said they could find nothing wrong and was never able to get sound to be heard while they test drove it! Each time I leave and drive away, it starts up to beat the band! At times it seems like it begins or ends when pressing on the brake pedal. At other times, it seems to come from the gas pedal.....hard to tell. I also have had it continue for a few seconds after the engine was shut off! Car seems to run just fine but noise is very annoying and must be stopped. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
  • voovonvoovon Member Posts: 3
    Hello I've just had the cambelt changed. When idling the revs start at 1500 and go down to 900 after 5 minutes. Car seems noisier than it was before. Can you let me know if this is a normal rev reading please?
  • eaglefan1eaglefan1 Member Posts: 2
    We have a 2008 Rav4 Limited with V6 and AWD. We have been experiencing a loud humming noise for months. It seems to be coming from the rear of the vehicle. The vehicle is now at the dealer for the 3rd time for the same problem. They are not able to replicate the problem and yet we hear it whenever we get it back. The vehicle was purchased brand new and it's just a year old. We have contacted a lemon law attorney-you may want to check with your state's attorney general's office.
  • nimiminimimi Member Posts: 249
    If it were I, I would try having the dealer's mechanic ride in the vehicle with me and point out the sound to him before I would divert a lawyer from chasing ambulances.
  • eaglefan1eaglefan1 Member Posts: 2
    I did have a mechanic ride with me, but the noise occurs randomly and was not heard during the drive. The dealer has had my car on 3 separate occasions each time for a number of days and they never heard the noise. However, no more that 24 hours after we got the car back, the humming noise was present. After doing more research it seems that this "humming" noise at low speeds has been a known problem with Rav 4's and Toyota has not fixed the problem. Trust me, I am not an individual who seeks to pursue law suits, but I feel in this case I need to protect myself and my family. I work extremely hard in the difficult economy and when a product does not live up to the standards/expectations and the company does not rectify the problem than action needs to be taken.
  • toyotafamily4toyotafamily4 Member Posts: 3
    I finally was able to do so. Once it made the sound, the head mechanic, in the car, knew it was the brake booster. It was replaced and all is well.
  • rav004rav004 Member Posts: 2
    well I have just gone to 300 miles on my new rav4 ltd v6 4x4 and now hear a low pitched rattling noise whenever it goes over small bumps just next to my left ear and it seems to come from near the seat belt origin on the driver side door panel or the pillar - and my wife says its also coming from the passenger side as well when she sits there - has anyone else have this issue??? This is my 2nd toyota and the nightmare seems to have started already as my corolla still gives me hell with all the rattling!!!!! guess I have to take it to the dealer now.
  • farmertullfarmertull Member Posts: 14
    In the past month my 2006 Rav 4 with 59,000 on it clunks when its put in reverse. I put it in reverse and it starts to go back and then it has a clunk noise as you get going. If you back up fast it really is loud. I locked the 4WD and it didnt do it. This has never happened before and I took it to the dealer with only a thousand left on the warantee. They said it is not a problem and it happens with all. My friend has a new RAV 4 which doesnt do it. The dealer claims to have a new one on the lot that does it and I do not believe them. They are asking to change the rear differential and transmission oil. That is not under warantee and will cost almost $500 just for the oil change. They talked about pressurized oil change in the transmission. I have a $200,000 John Deere Four Wheel Drive Tractor that doesn't even come close to that cost with 30 gallons of oil. I am really dissappointed by how Toyota is treating this noise and the cost to change transmission oil and rear end oil. Any one else have this noise when they go in reverse???
  • bob57bob57 Member Posts: 302
    $500.00?? You might want to look for another dealer...
  • philliplcphilliplc Member Posts: 136
    Rav004, if you have a roof rack make sure the crossbars are tightened.
  • ken94ken94 Member Posts: 2
    I have the same problem. The dealer where I took my RAV4 to was not very helpful in diagnosing the problem. The mechanic said the noise is normal brake pad shift. The condition occurs when pads rotate into forward or reverse position when car is moved the 1st time in a new direction.

    To me I don't believe in that at all. I am using it as is and hoping nothing serious happen.
  • margie26margie26 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2008 Rav4 that, for the last 12months has been making a noise that sounds like a diesel engine running or something hitting a fan at a rapid speed. This noise only happens intermittently and ONLY when in idle with your foot on the break (like when I'm stopped at a red light). We have had it back to the dealer 6 times and 4 mechanics have looked at it, but cannot locate the problem. We have even tape recorded the noise (because it is intermittent) and still, no one can figure out what's going on. Has anyone else had this problem or would anyone care to throw their ideas in on this? :sick:
  • ang33iefang33ief Member Posts: 63
    08 rav4, 15000 miles. Humming noise when I push the gas petal, when I let up the noise goes away. I see some of the post had this problem and one had his fixed with a brake booster? Seems like tires or tranm., will take the vehicle in when all the recalls are done. V-6 engine. Any ideas? Harry
  • zivbndzivbnd Member Posts: 4
    Phillip, that is a good call. I was having an intermittent rattling sound coming from the FLOORBOARD under the brake pedal and under the right rear passenger seat. And it was the vibration from 2 unsecured crossbar nuts. The vibration traveled down the columns and made it sound like the problem was on the bottom of the car. I had the service rep, a mechanic and the service manager riding around in the car and then looking at it on the rack trying to spot where the noise was coming from and some old school mechanic walked by, told them to tighten the crossbar nuts, and no more noise. The thing that threw them was that the sound was clearly coming from the bottom of the car.
  • vinsharvinshar Member Posts: 3
    I have 2010 RAV4, Made in Japan. Having the problem with excessive engine noise from day1. went to arbitration, Toyota does not want to agree and they say it is Normal as designed, I have compared with Made in Canada, with no problem. Stuck due to lease.
    Suggestion:
    DO NOT BUY RAV4 made in Japan (can be identified with the VIN)
    :lemon: :mad:
    Recommend to buy Ford or GM SUV.
  • comem47comem47 Member Posts: 399
    edited May 2010
    According to the wiki below the North American models should now all be coming out of Canada. If you're in North America I don't know how you got a Japan version in 2010 (unless Canada can't satisfy the total demand). Looks like an engine change happened on the 4Cyl version in 2009.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4
  • phineasboggsphineasboggs Member Posts: 5
    I am considering a Rav4, 2008. Yesterday, drove a tempting one. Opened the windows and closed them. Each of the front windows sorta clacked as they got into the groove. It was NOT a comforting sound.

    Salesperson said it was "normal" and that it's the "vacuum sound" as the window is sucked into the right place. Hmm.. I asked if it had been in an accident and she didn't deny or confirm.

    As much as my gut says "warning-warning" I wondered if there were things about the Rav4 like this that I don't know. I've never driven a near SUV or crossover, or whatever, and I don't know what are normal sounds. I want a fairly quiet ride with some carrying space (I live in hurricane zone).

    The Prius was nice too.
  • travanatravana Member Posts: 1
    For almost a year, my 06 RAV4 Limited 4cyl 4wd has been making this awful sound like something is dragging on the road underneath it. Not always, not consistent with any particular conditons. Looking underneath, nothing is out of place, nothing is dragging. It used to do it in forward and reverse, now it just does it in reverse...a horrible, clunky, metal dragging type of sound. Dealership claims they can't duplicate it and insist nothing is wrong. They've checked brakes, front and back, several times and can't find anything. I see that one poster had a rock stuck, and another hadn't yet found an answer...while I haven't been told that "they all do it"...I have been told they can't find anything wrong and kind of brushed aside. Are there any others out there who have experienced this and found out what it was? Thanks...
  • dee911dee911 Member Posts: 8
    I have a 2009 Rav 4. When the a.c. is on and I'm driving at about 30 mph and take my foot off of the accelerator, a rumbling/rattling sound emanates from the dash area. It only happens when the a.c. is on and only at low speeds. The dealership told me there was a TSB about it and determined it was a brake booster vacuum valve and replaced the existing one. I still heard the noise but it was faint. It has now become more prominent so their fix couldn't have been the cause. If anyone has had experience with this and especially solutions please share. Thank you.
  • notpleased2notpleased2 Member Posts: 2
    I got my 2010 RAV4 (4cyl) last October. Same symptoms your vehicle makes. It feels like the transmission is hesitating to downshift. Reminds me of when I forgot to downshift a manual transmission and the car almost stalled. Same rattle sound as that.

    The dealer says they reset the ECM and flushed the transmission fluid. The problem has not gone away.

    I don't know what the problem is. I hear it when I coast from around 30 mph. The a/c has to be running for this to happen. There's a clue.

    Let me know if you hear any other ideas.

    Thank you.
  • dee911dee911 Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for sharing your experience albeit an unsuccessful one. This is quite puzzling.So it's obviously not the ECM or the brake booster. I guess we've excluded two of a thousand possibilities. Will be taking it back in this week and will let you know of any recent developments. Someone out there must have a solution. Keeping fingers crossed.
  • stew16stew16 Member Posts: 17
    I've noticed the faint sound as well on my new Rav-4 limited, it faint but noticeable by the way how is your paint holding up? Have you noticed any chips?
  • dee911dee911 Member Posts: 8
    Well, my rumble/rattle started off faintly as well and only got worse. The latest info from the dealership is that they believe it is a drive-train problem. And, the plant in CA has gotten many similar complaints. No solution has been forthcoming however but I'll keep the forum posted as I learn new things. So far, no real paint issues.
  • bem521bem521 Member Posts: 10
    Hi, I have just purchased a 2010 v6 rav 4 limited. I have had the truck for only 3 weeks and within the first couple of days of driving the truck I hear a terrible noise also. It happens between 38-40 mph. It is very annoying. Went to take the service manager for a ride today and he was trying to tell me it is because it is an all wheel drive but I dont buy it. He did call a toyota rep which I will meet with on Sept 2 and he did say they are having many complaints about this problem which may eventually lead to a recall but in the meantime I cant even enjoy driving my new suv because the noise is enough to drive me insane. I hope they find the problem soon. Has anyone else had this problem?
  • dee911dee911 Member Posts: 8
    I just read your post. Does the noise occur only when the a.c. is on? The rattle doesn't occur in mine when the a.c. is off. But, the mph you report is similar to my experience. One of the mechanics at the dealership said that the transmission goes through a "lock up," at that rpm.
  • ang33iefang33ief Member Posts: 63
    It annoying and yes it is noticeable between 25-47 or so. Dealer says that it is normal for the 08-6cyl limited. I am thinking of trading it because of the noise. I will try another dealer first. Dealer says it is the tranm. but he has replaced some and it is only worse. Noise is just load enough to bother me, only 22k on the vehicle. I bought it with 12k and had I noticed it then, I sure would have gotten something else. I did get good gas mileage on a long trip but the wind noise was so bad I did not hear the humming. Harryt
  • dee911dee911 Member Posts: 8
    I'm not experiencing the humming, just rattle intermittently. The latest word or non-word from the dealership is that the rattle poses no problem mechanically. And, the a.c., involvement is only reflective of the extra load placed on the vehicle (4-cyl) that somehow causes the rattle to occur. It is tempting to wonder if they will drag their feet on the solution until warranty expiration. By then, no doubt the rattle will become more of a mechanical problem. I too am considering selling or trading.
  • bem521bem521 Member Posts: 10
    Hi, No this noise does not happen when the a.c. is on it happens all the time . So annoying I cant even stand driving the truck. I wish I heard it when i test drove it because i would of never bought it. There is obviously something wrong here or are we all crazy. Outside of the noise I love the truck I only have 1300 miles and I have not had that great gas mileage either so far 20.3 mpg with city and highway driving. I do not believe this is a normal noise because i owned a jetta about 10 years back and I had the same noise and it was the transmission. They put 2 brand new transmissions in and it still continued. They gave me a choice to buy the newer model which i did and the same problem continued. They had a bad batch of transmissions so needless to say they finally bought the car back from me but at least they could admit to the problem. I hope we get somewhere with the toyota people. We must all stick together and hope for the best. I will keep you posted!!
  • dee911dee911 Member Posts: 8
    I'm with you on the not-so-great gas mileage and I don't have a heavy foot. I can't imagine hearing what you're hearing ALL THE TIME. You're right about us sticking together at least in our separate efforts to get our problems rectified. It is tempting to assume that there may be a "batch" of poor quality Rav 4's. It's also as if, at least on my end, that the dealership is trying to get me to focus on the idea that "it doesn't affect the working of the vehicle," instead of the overall driving experience. It's the "revolution of declining expectations." Not fun. Let's stay connected as things evolve. Appreciate your comments and hope that you get some resolution.
  • bem521bem521 Member Posts: 10
    Hi I will certainly keep you updated as to what is going on with this situation. I do not have a heavy foot either but i just hope the gas mileage gets better. I feel like I am always at the gas station every couple of days. I do believe there is a poor batch of transmissions out there. I could be wrong but the sound is identical to the 1 i had in my jetta and it was a nightmere believe me. I just hope toyota resolves this issue and doesnt try to pass the buck if you know what i mean. I am keeping my hopes up!!
  • andrelaplumeandrelaplume Member Posts: 934
    so what ever happened!
  • dee911dee911 Member Posts: 8
    The latest regarding the rattle/rumble that occurs at about 30 mph and with my foot off of the gas is that Toyota has decided that it is "normal," for these cars. Amazing that they are now expecting consumers to settle for substandard cars. Arbitration is the next step after trying to discuss options with the owner of the dealership. If anyone has any experience with arbitration I would appreciate some guidance. Thanks.
  • stew16stew16 Member Posts: 17
    Arbitration is a very skewed process, the rules and regulations are built to protect the company/builder, Toyota is quickly becoming like all the other car companies take as many short cuts as possible and hope you don't get caught, supposedly the arbitrator is neutral but if that is the case why won't the arbitration companies make their rulings public, as to the outcomes, as someone who has gone thru arbitration and won on my house, I'm one of the exceptions to the rule, I won no financial awards but the repairs did get done.
  • dee911dee911 Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for your insights. I figured as much. Am waiting to speak to the GM/owner with my issues. Will keep the forum posted. Can hardly wait to hear what excuses he'll come up with about why it can't be fixed and that it's a "normal" vibrational occurrence that has no bearing on the operation of the vehicle. Too bad I wasn't informed of that to begin with.
  • bem521bem521 Member Posts: 10
    Hi, I just bought a 2010 v6 rav 4 and since the day I drove my rav out of the parking lot it has been humming. They have already replaced my transmission and the noise is still there. It seems to happen between 30-40 but gets worse if i stay at a steady speed between 38-40. I am not very happy at all with this situation. I will be going back soon to the dealership. Waiting to hear from the toyota rep. Outside of the humming noise I love the truck itself. I will keep you posted as to what happens but if anyone else is having this problem we all need to stick together to get any results.
  • ang33iefang33ief Member Posts: 63
    Yes my noise from the tran. is louder between 30-40mph. It starts to get to me. Its a rav 4, 6cyl also. Dealer told me that this is normal for the 6, mine is a 2008 with 22k. I will contact another dealer and see if I can talk to a rep.. Other wise vehicle is great, good gas milage, etc. If they can not do anything I guess I will have to trade it for something else. My sister has the 4 cyl and no humming. Harry
  • bem521bem521 Member Posts: 10
    Hi, I dont believe them when they say this is normal. My husband has been driving 4 wheel drives his whole life and have never heard a noise like this so I think it is BS. I went back to the dealership to see if I could trade it for a 2011 but whos to say I wouldn't have the same problem. Just a lot of problems with the dealership in general. They promised me they would trade me up to an 11 because I was told my navigation had a 6 disc player and after I take delivery find out it only has a 1. So I took them up on how good they would take care of me and went there last Sunday. Yea they must think I am a moron they wanted another 5400 so I am not very happy with them at this moment. They are all the same they take your money and nobody gives a crap after that. I am expecting to hear from the rep on Oct 8 and I can almost guess what they are going to tell me. They are going to say it is normal and the noise is alot better now then when I first brought it in. I will keep you posted. Hopefully with good news but with the way everything else went at the dealership Im not depending on it. Talk to you soon!
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