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New Land Cruiser (our Lexus GX 470 and formerly the Land Cruiser Colorado), and the Land Cruiser Amazon (our Land Cruiser).
http://www.4car.co.uk/special/motorshow5/main.jsp?pg=3&id=145
Bob
Money aside, also have some question about waiting for the 03....if it can get through the ports. Wonder if it will be worth the wait, or it is better to go with the now-outdated but proven 02 model? You gotta figure Toyota has worked out most if not all the bugs. But the way I see it, the 03 will have a higher sticker (any info on the sticker/invoice numbers?), there will be less room to negotiate, and the factory incentives probably won't be around....figure it'll cost about 3-5 thou more to wait until next month for the 03.
I'd appreciate any input.......
P.S. 300 over invoice is way too high - you can do better than that. I already have several quotes $ 1,500 UNDER invoice but not sure it is worth it because I want them to do better on the price of a supercharger package to get the HP up around that of an '03. Good luck.
Check out posts #2468-2469 to see my assessment of the '02 vs. '03 debate given the "debacle" Toyota came up with for the new, redesigned look. At that time, I was optomistic about pricing on '02s but had not hit the lots, got the numbers, and done the actual cost/benefit analysis (also, we did not have '03 pricing at that time; currently, based on a mag article and some posts from reliable sources, we have $27K or $27.5K as starting base invoice for '03s).
Then, check out my recent posts #3025-3026 for my conclusions based on recent forays in the CAT region. Then , decide what is best for you. Again, good luck and fight that urge to be impulsive (I'm succesfully on my 5th such fight, since the one in late '99 when I decided NOT to buy that '00 - perhaps was the wrong decision at that time, who knows now.)
"Pricing has not been released, but Toyota promises a better value over the previous version. The 4Runner sold only slightly more than 90,000 units in 2001—a six-year low." OK.
" . . . more muscular than the previous-generation. A new front fascia featuring a horizontal grille with wide headlights and large fender flares gives it an aggressive stance. Large taillights and an integrated tow hitch dominate the view from the rear." HUH? Yah, among other "creative" design cues, that silver license plate "garnish" will look real aggressive and muscular on my Black Runner . . . (IMHO).
I wish I could pick my upgrades to put value in the 2003 like color-keyed cladding/flares on a sport model. I am convinced that they will offer that option next year or if its not color-keyed they will offer nicer two-tone combinations.
Here in Canada they now mention November, some even say at the Montreal Auto show in late November for initial availability. Anybody out there with Canadian information on availability?
Steve
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Steve
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First off, let me say this truck looks FANTASTIC in actuality. They had a silver Limited parked next to a 2002 silver Limited, a 2002 silver Sport Edition, a black Grand Cherokee Overland, a blue Trailblazer, and a red Exploder. The new 4Runner easily blows the others away, with looks, ergonomics., and functionality.
The rest were 5 SR5s and 6 Sport Editions. They were made up of one green, one white, 5 silver, and 4 dark gray. The darker colors definitely look the best with the cladding, but I thought the white looked better than the silver for some reason. The silver speckles in the cladding make it look better than, say the Grand Cherokee Laredo or the Avalanche, and the Toyota rep told me that the paint is blended into the plastic to give it a more finished look, so it doesn't look like Rubbermaid, and it's chip and scratch resistant. He said they hadn't actually tested that, but he's heard nothing but positive feedback from people who have. I thought the cladding looked great, on the darker colors, but looked cheap on the silver. For some reason, that's just a bad combination.
Now, here's the biggest relief for me. I always carry a tape measure in my truck, so I measured the rocker height and compared it to the 2002 Sport Edition 4x4, sitting right next to the 2003 Sport Edition 4x4. THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!!! So my issue about ground clearance with the rockers is a non-issue. Granted this is a slightly longer truck, but as long as they didn't lower the rocker height like GM did on the mid-size triplets, I'm happy! 18.5" is only half an inch away from the height of a ZR-2 Blazer, which is the best stock rocker height of any mid-sized SUV, that I know of.
The interior is great, with lots of nice feeling materials, and I like the new "dials" for the temperature controls. They seem very logical and easy to use. The GPS and stereo systems are phenomenal! The shelf is very cool, and the motor assist for the liftgate is really nice.
In short, this WILL BE my next SUV.
-TB
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Just in time inventory is great, until the system hiccups I guess.
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Love it.
But noticed in 4 wheel drive mode, turning in low speed (parking, entering garage) become difficult. The truck feels very heavy.
Is it normal ?
Thanks for any insight.
Look at your sun visor - it tells you whether this is a part-time or full-time 4WD. I know the '96 is part-time, because I know someone who has one.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
So i am figuring a trip to the dealership the week after OUR thanksgiving. HOPEFULLY the darn strike doesnt delay it any longer.
zaad
Okay, I understand the expression "kick the tires," but since we're on the subject, the tires on the Limited looked great, but the ones on the SR5s and Sport Editions looked a little under-sized and wimpy. I know the BFGs are only slightly bigger, but the tread makes them look so much more aggressive! The 5-spoke wheels help make the tires look better on the SR5s, but I just don't care for those 6-spokes on the SE. They do nothing to help give it a more beefy stance.
I am wondering/hoping that the new iteration of the 4Runner has a higher sitting front seat allowing the knees to be at least at 45 degrees with my hips and lower leg, can anyone tell me anything about this? Oh, I am only 5'7", so even for a short person this may be a problem.
Thanks
But allow me to be in doubt that the dealer is honest (but he might be). My dealer, usually very honest, has been pushing back the availability date week by week. (Mid-september, end of september I swear, Oct 3rd for sure....)
In the MTL region the salesman are invited to a product introduction and test drive by Toyota on Oct 23rd. I doubt they would get the trucks before that date or else the exercise would be futile.
In the paper the other day, an article featuring the 2003 4Runner mentionned that 2003 4Runner would appear at dealers after the unveiling at the MTL Auto show scheduled for Nov 26th. They stills could have 4Runner on the lot and do a formal unveiling for the show I think.
I'm eager to see them in person but right now I'm more concerned about pricing. I plan to lease, so if the price for a Sport Edition is 43500 (canadian pesos) (tentative pricing as of mid-september), residual around 50% and the interest rate is around 7.95% (standard rate for new Toyotas) the 2003 Sport (with plastic cladding and cloth interior) will cost me 75$ per month more than a fully loaded Pathfinder (with leather and all). A similarly equipped Limited would be 160$ more than the Pathy. The 4Runner might be a better truck but to my taste the new styling is much less classy than the Pathfinder.
Decisions, decisions, decisions.......
How can they NOT have monochromatic Black, or option codes to build same!?!?!? The friggin' '03s look like a Christmas tree. Imagine that quadruple-colored new Sport for example: 1)you get your main body color; 2) gray cladding/bumper/fender flare nonsense; 3) black tires, windows and running boards (silver boards only on the Limited); and to top it off, silver roof rack, grill, handles, and that hideous silver license plate "garnish."
Giving up on a reasonable price on the old '02s, so the Pathfinder is becoming more and more acceptable as a second choice. If it had the electric rear window for my Lab, I wouldn't even be here wondering: fully loaded 240 HP Black-on-Black '03 LE with leather, bose stereo, and limited slip for just over $30K . . . damn.
P.S. I find it rather amusing to learn that Toyota has been ripping on the drawbacks of the Pathfinder's aluminum engine - I wonder how they will make the comparison this year . . .
: )
Mackabee
I just don't know what is holding me off from taking the Pathy right now....
240 HP Black-on-Black '03 LE with leather, bose stereo, and limited slip for the same price of a Sport Edition with the cladding disease.... damn ;-)
Since you know a few of us are not diggin' the Sport or the 39K Limited with racing skunk-stripes, any changes from your post a while back listing the 4WD SR5 inventory coming in for the CAT region?
In that post you indicated: "41 SR5 with premium single disc CD, NE, AL (this is alloy wheels but I don't know if it is 16" or 17"), KG, roof rack, CM and spoiler."
Question: does that mean all the 4WD SR5s are coming to CAT with the color-keyed spoiler option factory installed in Japan (or maybe at the port)?
Also, any updates what NE, AL (17"?), KG, and CM turned out to be?
Let's see:
1. Rear legroom is pathetic
2. Off-road is not nearly as good
3. Unibody?? Crash testing (IIHS) sucks for a unibody...what structural integrity!
4. Does it have stability control?? I think only the '03 has it
5. No ATRAC
6. Suspension control arms are weaker...stamped steel arms in IFS (4Runner has BOXED control arms that are welded)
7. Engine is a freaking car engine...Nissan uses the same engine on all their vehicles! Geez....
8. Brakes are not nearly as good...4Runner has a much shorter stopping distance (70-0)
Folks, sorry to be so hostile, but the Pathfinder costs significantly less for a reason!
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
1. Rear leg room: I have young kids so it does not matter to me. In 3 years+ with my 4Runner only twice did adults sat in the back. Rear seats must provide clearance for 10 year old kids.
2. I do very limited off-road and it usually consists in going through mud, no rick climbing here
3.Crash testing, you got a point
4. 03 has stability control and full-time 4X4
5. The 03 LE has traction control.
6. That suspension should be good enough to carry my kids and related luggage.
7. I think that Nissan engine is a great engine. I prefer to consider that Nissan cars make use of a truck engine. 240HP and 265lbs of torque should be enough for the family and pull my 2000lbs boat.
8. When I test drove the Pathy I prefered the brakes to my 4Runner brakes, a question of feeling I guess.
Don't take too personaly Intmed99. I think that the 4Runner is a great vehicle but it is NOT the only great vehicle out there.
The esthetics changes to the 03 are not going the way I wanted. I will NOT buy a two-tone color/black-plastic car for 30K (42K canadian pesos...). And I cannot afford the Limited unless I get a second job.
So if I cannot afford the toyota I want intmed99, I am out of a SUV ???? Is the Runner the sole choice for a SUV. Suggestions please ?
Like you, I drive a pathetic CRX Si (but a '91) . . . I've patiently held out for 3 years in that thing, getting stuck in Mud when camping, trying to tow my jet ski (yes, it has a hitch - no comment), our black lab tearing up the inside, and with a leaky sunroof, the friggin' trunk area is a terrarium from all the hauling of top soil and plant matter this spring. :> You should see it fully loaded for snowboarding trips with the Thule combi box on top - what a hoot. A new Black 'Runner was to be mine, regardless of paying MSRP - especially with the new Moomba ski boat we would be getting. I've always loved the look and ability of Toyota trucks since our family had them. But, after this technicolor yawn thrown at us by Toyota, I think I still would rather be seen in the dumpy CRX then one of these 4Ravlander, two-tone stepchilds of the new Lexus GX. The new monochromatic, clean GX - why could they not have just done that for the 4Runner as well?
All my opinion. I'm jealous of you if in your opinion that new minivan spoiler look seems terrific . . . that's how I wanted to feel. I wish I could care absolutely NOTHING about appearance, but for me it's about 20% of the equation (though, I'm trying to rationalize that % down).
Anyway, I'm trying and waiting and being optomistic that the base SR5 in black may not look that bad (unless they all come from Japan with the spoiler) . . . so at this point, with what I know, a SuperBlack LE seems more palatable overall given appearance factor. [For the penny-pinchers, certainly a better value dollar for dollar for most folks with similar intended uses; but, for the true-off road and overall experience, the 4Runner will never be beat!]
P.S. Based purely on looks, here are the results so far of my two-week old blind survey (among attorneys, engineers, economists, secretaries, and analysts, male and female, young and old) outside my office door of "Vote for Which is More Visually Appealing to You":
'03 Hummer H2: 19 votes;
'03 Pathfinder: 21 votes; and
'03 Sport 4Runner: 3 votes.
P.S.S. Since another stupid 4Runner/Pathfinder fued is a waste of time, let's leave it at that. Been there myself on behalf of the 3rd Gen, and me and the Toyota loyalists always came out on top. Sheesh . . . do you think I really "want" a Pathfinder when I almost shelled out $30+K for a supercharged 3rd Gen???? Toyota just (unfortunately) really poo-poo'd this one . . .
My wife finds the 2003 sports/sr5 4runner very fugly (not "not nice"... fugly). The Pilot is to anonymous for her and she's madly in love with the Pathy (she gave a hard time 3years ago when I picked up the Runner over a 1999.5 Pathy)
I showed pictures to friends and colleagues and they get their opinion and they were very surprised that Toyota went that route. Except fo the Limited is it not a classy/chic SVU anymore. My 99SR5 is very chic despite not having the Limited ammenities.
I showed pictures to Toyota salesmen and only one was professional enough to hold up its composture and said "nice, but this must be a prototype". Another salesman told me "sorry....".
I think we have seen too many pictures, from too many angles, to be surprised when seing one for real on the lot.
One big Mistake !!! this is all I can say. I bet the 2004 will be much better.
I agree, the tires are the first to be replaced to ensure better handling, ride and performance.
EJ JBL "Synthesis" with 6 disc CD, 10 speakers and rear controls.
NE Leather wrapped steering wheel with audio controls.
AL 16" alloy wheels
KG Black running boards (Mackabee is correct)
DR black roof rack
CM Double deck cargo system
RF rear spoiler
C7 floor mats, cargo mat, cargo net and first aid kit
NV Navigation system with 1 CD
SP Sport package with 17" wheels, X-REAS suspension, silver roof rack with black cross members, fog lights, leather wheels with audio etc.
Now I'm confused by the cladding. Some of the shots I have seen look unpainted like the Sienna LE while others look gray painted (or paint impregnated) like the Sienna XLE. Fortunately, we have only 6 days until we see them in person.
Also, some district managers are already driving these things to the dealers. You may be able to catch one at a dealer near you if you are lucky. Ship date is still the 10th.
There is almost no difference between a Pilot and an Odyssey in the driving feel and bland interior. Also prefer the true 4X4 found in the Runner and Pathy instead of that VTM thing in the Pilot
Cheers
Pat
I've always been the pseudo-off roader any way; more of a family man. When I'm not hauling my boat to go wakeboarding in summer or driving in the white stuff when boardin' in winter, I will have to drive to a job occassionally in this thing and use it as a commuting vehicle . . . but 40 to 3 among my co-workers does not make this the most exciting new look to show up in. And I do have to live with my wife (a former breeder of pit bulls in Illinois - don't want to get her upset) . . . who is screaming at Toyota about this new look . . . yes, us family guys better start looking elsewhere.
P.S. Thanks Cliffy. As I said I think 887 posts ago, you ARE a valuable resource on this board. And if you find out that this has all been a bad dream and there really is a JZ color-keyed code in there for the SR5s, I'll come down today and pre-order one right now from you!!!!!!!!! :> At a minimum, let me know whether that spoiler is a Japan, port, or dealer install.