Toyota 4Runner

kjack100 · October 2002

I am surprised they didn't offer the air suspension on all four corners. This would have addressed some of the clearance concerns of intermed and nippononly and others. Has Toyota ever offered rear air suspension on a vehicle before? Any reliability issues?

The only other Toyota I know of that has air suspension at all is the Lexus LX470 and that is at all four corners.

I guess it would be good for correcting the 4Runner rear end sag when the cargo area is heavily loaded. And for trailer experts, can this serve as some kind of compensation for a heavy trailer tongue?

cliffy1 · October 2002

Toyota has never put the air suspension in anything other than the LX470. It isn't a real complicated system but it is slow. It takes about 2 minutes to fully raise and lower it. It uses an air compressor.

Yes, it does wonders to stability with heavy tongue trailers.

nippononly · October 2002

also use the compressor for the suspension to reinflate tires after being offroad!

I am sure they made it available only on the limited to keep it "exclusive" - I bet you in a few years it will be on all trim levels.

kavink · October 2002

After sitting in the 4 runner it was very obvious that the vehicle is built to accommodate short people. I am only 6'2" and had an unfortunate encounter with the headliner. I read Cliffy's note on how you can recline the seats and fit ok. Let me get this straight, I spend $35k for a car and then I have to drive around like a lowrider reclining back in the seats? The cargo space was equally unimpressive. Looks like Sequoia may be more up my alley.

tfuzz · October 2002

Thanks cliffy. There don't seem to be any Runners with air suspension in Kansas, Oklahoma or Colorado right now, or at least the 10 or so dealers I have checked with can't seem to find one (two have flat told me that it is unavailable--one said they could get it in 6-8 weeks--another talked gibberish about its availability). Too bad you aren't closer. And I was (and still am) ready to buy on the spot.

Under Toyota's "build you own" website some zip codes have rear air suspension in option package 2, but not other zip codes. That website seems to have changing information from what it had last week, so maybe they are still updating it.

I was going to go into a missive about how Honda and Toyota can be hard to buy from sometimes (Honda flat insulted me in 2000 when I tried to buy an Odyssey--which is why I haven't set foot in a Honda store since and I now have a Sienna), but my wife says if I don't come to bed now she is going to kick me in the taillights, so you are spared.

4runnerpilot: Pueblo Toyota (CO).

cliffy1 · October 2002

The problem you are running into is the regional nature of Toyota's distribution system. There are 13 regions and each region is responsible for the vehicle orders for their dealers. If your region has not ordered any with the air suspension, you'll be VERY hard pressed to get one. Yes, the dealer can factory order one but that can take months.

On domestic built vehicles, the order process is much easier. Before the car is built, we can have it diverted from one region to another or just have an inbound unit changed before it is built.

I can't speak for all regions, but I do know what is coming to the Central Atlantic Region. About 10% of our Limited are coming with the nav system and the air suspension.

tfuzz · October 2002

cliffy: Thanks again for your usual clear explanation of the issues. I have always appreciated your posts in the Toyota forums. I see your point, and it now makes some sense why I keep getting different prices on the "build your own" site, and why I get different stories from different dealers. I hope Toyota gives you a little Christmas bonus for your efforts to provide clear, accurate information (maybe a new Runner!).

Alas, it appears a factory order may be my only choice, although Toyota dealers have discouraged me from that in the past. I insist on having the rear air suspension, and I really don't want the navigation system. I was ready to buy a new Runner today, but it appears that is not going to happen. I just thought that by shopping Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Denver/Colorado Springs, and points nearby and in between, SOMEBODY would have a Runner configured the way I want. Guess not.

Do regions expand the mix of options ordered as the model year progresses? If so, maybe I'll just wait to see what is available over the winter or order one next spring, or maybe order an 04 next fall.

steveb84 · October 2002

In the Chicago region we cannot special order a 4Runner until further notice. I'm not sure if this is a national policy or just for our region. Make sure you speak with a sales manager and find out if it's even possible. I've heard of too many stories where a order gets written up and 90 days later the customer is told "we can't get it"

cliffy1 · October 2002

Steveb84 is correct. A better option is to e-mail dealers in other regions. The down side is actually picking it up. Some dealers will work out shipping but others can't. It may require a flight and a long drive home. I know Carson Toyota in CA has one of the best Internet Departments around and I also know that they can ship. That might be a good place to start, but check with others as well.

It is possible that build orders will change. It might or might not. That is really a crap shoot.

beagles3 · October 2002

If we order something from Calif., how much different are the emission controls say than a vehicle that I purchase in Wash State? Someone once told me that the vehicles that are shipped to Calif have different emission standards?

cliffy1 · October 2002

The 2003 Runners all have 50 state emissions which means there is no difference between the ones shipped to CA and the rest of the country. That was not always the case, but it is now.

fishingguy · October 2002

This is not a Toyota-bashing comment; I am really just interested in any thoughts... This has been a pretty dead thread for such a new generation of a very successful product legacy. I wonder if it is just a slow start or if Toyota really blew it on the styling of this vehicle. My guess is that they did judging by the very poor sales of my local dealership. I will still likely buy an SR5 (the limited is too rich for my blood) but will not be doing it for looks. I will buying the vehicle for Toyota's reliability and the power of the vehicle. I am still wagering that the prices get soft on the 4runner soon. I figure a black body best masks the hideous molding my vehicle will be stuck with. FWIW some mgt folks at my local dealer speculated that Toyota would offer color keyed molding soon into 2003.

world_traveler · October 2002

I recently talked to my Toyota dealer. They are really disappointed. They feel that Toyota blew it big time. Gee mid-range Rav4 and Highlander look better and more "rich" than a SR5 and Sports.

People interested in the 2003 Runner are mainly new customers they said. The Runner crowd is disapointed and they come and see it only to see the damage. Customer interest and sales of 2002 have picked up quite a bit.

The key difference between a Sport and a Limited is the Leather and color-keyed flares/cladding. Those are the two main things you get for 5K+.

Can they canabilize their Limited sales by offering color-keyed flares on SR5 and Sports? I doubt they'll do that. On the 3rd gen they went as far as offering black palstic flares for non-limited except for the last year or so when they offered color-keyed flares on the sports.

They'll probably offer some two-tone combinations (black-gold) and make the flares less plastic.

Doing too much of a drastic change on the 2004 would mean that they admit the mistake and that would be a slap on the face at 2003 owners who would have a resale problem and lower residual.

Unless the cladding grows on us slowly..... nah I doubt so.

It is a big problem they now have on their hands.

stever · October 2002

Seems awfully early days to be playing funeral dirges....

Steve, Host

world_traveler · October 2002

The non-Limited 4Runner is DOA ;-)

I just hope they can turn things around for the 2004 model

stever · October 2002

I dunno - it's only been out what, 2 weeks now? Most of the "real world" out there hasn't even seen it yet.

Steve, Host

world_traveler · October 2002

But us "fans" know about it for a while now and our opinions have not changed if not gone worst. I ran a poll with friends and collegues in September and the Sports was a huge thumbs down then. The sports actually looks worst in person than on the dreadful pictures I've shown these people.

Like I said, my dealer told me that inquiries mainly come from new customers, the Runner people waiting to upgrade are stuck unless they can shell out enough money to buy the Limited.

They've had the trucks now for 12 days.... no sales, not even a Limited. 2 deposits refunded (including mine). One reason might be that only the V8 are available. V8 are not popular around here (Canada) due to the higher gas price and higher insurance rates.

By the way... sorry for the bashing. It comes out more as of frustration than anything else.

By the way: Nice opportunity for companies like Callaway and the likes to come out with a powerful mod out 3rd gen.

hannerhan · October 2002

I for one think everyone is really over-reacting with all the negative comments on the new Runner. The ONLY thing of any substance that anyone can complain about is the cladding, which will soon be an option on every trim (my guess). Look at the bright side: it has world-class interior quality (for an SUV), 2 great engines to choose from, great 4 wheel drive ability, and more comfort than the 3rd gen. Overall, I think it looks really good from the outside as well. To me the straight on rear view looks great - a little retro.

Compared with the 3rd gen, the 4th gen is better in every way. Period.

That said, I'm just as pissed about the cladding as anyone. I want a white one, and am not happy about the white/cladding combo. BUT - since I will actually be taking it off-road, I think the cladding will keep me from getting so many dings in the paint, which is nice.

My point is, I think that in 5 years everyone will look at the 4th gen just as fondly as we look at the 3rd gen now. It will just take some time, but in the meantime I'm hoping this backlash about the cladding will continue and let me swoop in at the beginning of 2003 and pick one up for a SWEET DEAL!

coolguyky7 · October 2002

I saw a silver 2003 4Runner today. It was the first one I've seen on the road.

mreilly2 · October 2002

For the past two weeks in a row, I've seen (3) 2003 Limited 4runners being advertised at $2500 below MSRP in the car section of our local Pennysaver, right next to some of the used Toyotas. I don't ever recall seeing new 3rd generation models advertised in this way, except maybe at the end of the model year when they were trying to clear the lots for the new inventory. For the most part, the 3rd generation models sold themselves. In addition, my uncle works as a Lexus dealer which is adjacent to another Toyota show room that has two Limited models on site. He's told me that they've been there for two weeks and aren't moving. He personally doesn't like the redesign that much either. Perhaps the new design is hurting sales.

I've read the previous comments and realize that the new design will take some time to become generally visible to the public. However, given the large amount of anticipation on this board and other 4runner forums over the past year, I had expected (I guess wrongly) a large spike in sales during this time due to pre-orders and excited 4runner enthusiasts waiting to upgrade. Even without knowledge of the upgrade, people wander into Toyota dealerships on a regular basis to renew leases, upgrade their vehicles, or just see what's new. You would have thought that if the new 4runner was that exciting, people would be jumping all over them. Apparently, they're not at the moment.

Everyone seems to mention the cladding as the only bad design element, but I think that the squared off "Avalanche" fenders, the rear end "mini-van" look, and the discontinuous design elements conspire to make the design flawed as well. The front view is the only decent angle available. This is just my opinion though and looks are always subjective.

Anyway, if you haven't seen or heard about it already, there is an interactive window with info about the 4runner on the Toyota site that gives some insight into the design evolution and other things. One of the intermediate designs actually looks really good with rounded fenders and smoother lines. If only Toyota had chosen this one....

mhenderson1 · October 2002

clublexus.com soem pictures of the new Lexus GX470. Looks nice inside and out. Even the seats look roomy and comfortable.

jkulp42757 · October 2002

I just took a look at the concepts you referred to.

If Toyota had went with the muscular look of those I would be a owner right now!!

world_traveler · October 2002

Me too... big time !!!!

I wonder what happened.... When you look at the evolution of the design through the phases you wonder what could have gone wrong. Someone did not want to offend someone else. They were problably affraid of making such a statement (Toyota has always been somewhat conservative).

Like many say: the design is more the work of a committe than a visionary.

jkulp42757 · October 2002

Yes, worldtraveler for me it is at least 90% style. That is why I drive this: http://www.investmentforum.net/images/myram4.JPG To me, this is style, some like it, some don't.

It doesn't have all the nice features (downhill assist, traction & skid control) like the runner, but making a statement with the looks of a vehicle is #1 in my book. :-)

Nissan has made some bold statements with their pickup, and while everyone might not like the look, at least they aren't afraid to be aggressive.

Those Runner concepts are so cool looking...very nice and aggressive, just the thing I would have LOVED to buy!! Oh well...

world_traveler · October 2002

Very nice truck and a nice set of wheels. I saw one exactly like that the other day. I find it awesome despite the fact that I'm not big on Dodge/Chrysler.

In a truck like that you DO make a statement.

I'm not as fortunate... My lease was up so I had to settle on a Pathfinder LE since I didn't like the new 4Runner. Nice truck and all but it is not a statement maker. The look is a little old but it rides nicely and I like the LE ammenities. It'll definitely do while Toyota fix things up with the Runner.

If money would not have been an issue I would have taken a loaded Ford Expedition or better the Lincoln Navigator as a replacement. I don't know why but I just love these two trucks.....(judgement solely based on looks.....)

Like you said... Oh well...

4wdisfun · October 2002

Dont like the black truck (too american). Like you said... Oh well

scoplin · October 2002

Hi Mreilly2, can you tell me what area you live in. I am in the Dallas Tx area and have not seen that kind of discounts on the Limited 03 4Runners.

4skinner · October 2002

I have used 89 since ive owned my 98 4runner. Using 89 along with the amsoil air filter and air box deckplate really make a difference.

ttlmeter · October 2002

For the Runner, how often should you flush the radiator? I always thought once a year, but for my 2000 LTD 4x4, I'm not real certain. I don't remember ever doing this, but I'll check my maintenance record.

jeffjeff · October 2002

This board is so informative. I would like to thank everyone for giving me their input on what type of gas you put in your Suv. I have had my 2002 4Runner for almost a month now and at first I was asking myself if I made a good decision because the truck was so expensive. But now, I'm over that and I'm loving this SUV. This is my first SUV. The car I had before this was a 1989 Toyota Camry. That car was my baby. I still love that car. I sold it to a friend of mine who lives up the street so I see it riding around all of the time. It makes me feel good to see that. But, now, I'm loving my 4Runner. Sure, I'm still getting used to the gas consumption difference between my Camry and this, but that's to be expected. I drive on the highway to get to work, so I guess I'm getting good mileage for the gas. After driving it for one month, I have decided that this ones a keeper. I've never felt so good driving a nice new vehicle. It rides so smooth, it's so great, it's amazing. I've driven other SUV's but the 4Runner really stands out. Anyone can tell the difference as soon as you get in and drive down the road. It's built different, it feels like quality. I have a friend who has an Expedition and when I let him drive my Runner, the first thing he said was, "Wow, this thing is quiet" and I know exactly why he said that, because he's used to a rougher ride. I just wanted to share this story with all of you. Once again, thank you very much, all of you and this weekend, when it's time to fill up again, I'll try 89 octane and see what happens!

insur_suvs · October 2002

Tonight I saw the 03 4runner TV adds for the first time (during Law & Order and Jay Leno). It's about time! I wonder how sales are really doing.

mreilly2 · October 2002

I'm in the Upstate NY area. I just received the new Pennysaver yesterday and the 2003 was advertised again. The ad read as follows: New 2003 Toyota 4runner Limited; MSRP $39,967; Sale $37,023. The dealer is in the Oneonta, NY area (only Toyota dealer there; they also sell Kias) I don't know if I'm allowed to give the dealer's name on this board. Who knows, it might be worth a long road trip and a plane ticket to save $2,900.

aufan1 · October 2002

Toyotas and Kias at the same dealership? what a match!

stever · October 2002

Dealers' names are ok - we just get antsy when email addresses, phone numbers or salespeople's names get bandied about. Thanks for asking!

Steve, Host

mackabee · October 2002

Sales are picking up on it at my store. Previous 4runner owners don't like the new look, but new buyers love it! Go figure.
: )
Mackabee

mackabee · October 2002

Dealers names are ok, but not salespersons names or e-mail addresses?
: )
Mackabee

stever · October 2002

Putting names up looks too much like people trying for birddog fees, and sometimes the numbers or emails are fake (or it's a shill poster). We don't have the resources to check that stuff - better to give a dealer name and let the buyer search on google or the manufacturer web page for the contact info.

Steve, Host

leodogs · October 2002

That's about how many I have...I've been following the development, conjecture and now reality of this vehicle and here are some observations and a few questions:
1. I've had two Toyota salesmen tell me that they're only producing Titanium (that's probably because they flooded the market with that color}. When I told them they were wrong, they both said I didn't know what I was talking about.
2. On the front cover of their brochure is a Gallactic Gray. When you open their brochure the interior color they show is taupe (tan). I challenge anyone (dealers included) out there to find me a Ltd. with that color combination and the GY (curtain & side airbags...)and NH (X-Reas).
3. Why would anyone pay MSRP? If you can't find a fair price you will - that's why they call them DEALERS.
4. You can't place a "to build order" - regardless of what some less knowledgeable sales people tell you.
5. Why would anyone pay $261 (msrp) for Z1 (in some areas C7) - floor mats, cargo mat and net and first aid kit? Answer: find a vehicle without that package already in it.
5. Lastly -this (when I find it) will be my eighth Toyota. Drive the vehicle and perhaps you'll know why.

toyotaken · October 2002

I have never tried and I will say that I will NEVER try to "build to order" any Toyota product. It has taken anywhere from 3 to six months to get one factory option changed from what they are normally producting. Trying to mix and match more than just one option would take a lifetime of waiting. Often, when I have ordered something different than the norm in terms of factory equipment, I have had to have the regional factory representative involved to get it done. So if you want one or two things changed, feel free if you want to wait, but other than that, one of the drawbacks to owning one of if not the best vehicle to be built is that you have to be a bit flexible with your equipment options.

mjohnr99 · November 2002

Read some of the back posts after a while elsewhere. Yes, intermediate designs without notches/cladding/etc. are more attractive on my end as well.

FYI, check out article on some past marketing goofs (e.g., RAV4) and Toyota's drive to get its "mojo back" among my crowd - perhaps a telling foreshadowing of 4th Gen miscues vis-a-vis Gen-Xers?

http://makeashorterlink.com/?I1D214F42

Final paragraph does "strike a chord":
"Toyota is gambling that its products can span the generations. 'We have room on our lap for boomers and their children,' says Toyota executive vice president Jim Press. After all, the kids and their parents are both grooving to the music of Santana these days. But if Toyota isn't careful, it might strike a false chord with both groups."

Anyway, looking forward to their upcoming update to this article where they assess, in part, "late20/early30-something" reaction to the new look that is supposed to be "youthful" (e.g., no 3rd row seat, etc.) and targeted in part to folks like my wife and me. I will spare you from the final results of the "H2/new Runner/old Pathfinder" appearance poll (took down 2 weeks ago), but the water cooler talk now is that the new 4th Gen campaign is WEAK compared to those awesome H2 montages that drove me to the "point of insanity" (i.e., wanting to buy one).

Dear Toyota:
Come on . . . Hillary's dead-pan face, non-moving eyes, and slow drawling descriptions are bordering Alzheimer's . . . this is not crying YOUTH. Mitsibushi is even doing a better job with their car spots. Kill the cladding et al. and give us hope for that dream runner - then you won't need these advertising masterminds. And . . . don't make my wife and I wait until we're in our 40's to do so.
Sincerely (and I repeat),
"$31K Gen-X money recently (and somewhat sadly) spent elsewhere."

sbcooke · November 2002

The Wall Street Journal has a review in the weekend journal section of the new 4runner. It was mediocre at best, however I think it was biased towards minivan type SUV's.

jcla7 · November 2002

I'm still trying to like this. They do such a great job with the basics, it seems hard to believe they've blown this one. I can put up with some things I don't like, but I'm afraid there are too many here: cladding, headroom (I tried Cliffy's suggestion and it may work in the short term, but on a long trip it may send one to the orthopedic surgeon), spoiler (hideous!), piling on of unwanted options(first aid kit, give me a break) and a premium price tag. It's just too much to accept when there are other, albeit lesser, alternatives. It's a damn shame since the ride is great, fit and finish great, and it's so quiet.

Alas, like world traveler and mjohnr99 before him, I am very, very close to the 03 Pathy. I'm going to try it one more time this weekend, but unless things look differently, it's most likely on to the Nissan dealer. BTW, for those who took the Pathy route, any insight would be appreciated on price, options, ride, gas mileage....did you do the right thing?

world_traveler · November 2002

Jcla7,

As you may have seen in my previous posts the 2003 4Runner really disappointed me and my opinion has not changed from seing it in person. The only one of the series I could dealt with is the Black Limited.

So I picked the 2003 Pathfinder LE. Here are my impressions:

- Not as sturdy as the 4Runner but mainly this is true on smaller items like carpet, ceilling and a couple of detailing components like the front grill.

- It can hold its own off-roading. I took the dealer's demo off-road (wrecked road and area) and it did everything I already did with my 4Runner, no hesitations and it had power to spare. I guess the difference would be in extreme offroading where I would not take a new and stock 4WD anyway (Runner of Pathfinder).

- Price, it is where you will win. I paid my fully equipped LE a grand less than a V6 Sports. The LE is very well equipped, ammenities galore !!!

- For city driving (streets and busy highways) it drives better in my opinion. Because of its lower center of gravity it corners better. ( Please not that this comparison is based on a 99 SR5-V6, not a 2003). Acceleration seems to be the same but I have not pushed mine yet because of the breakin period. A bit more noisy, mainly on wet pavement but the Stereo easily hides all that.

- Gas. It is worst than my 99 Runner but on par with the 2003. They have similar MPG ratings and both use Premium. Mine is pretty bad on gas right now but this could be due to the breakin period.

Did I do the right thing? Big question...... I'd say yes ONLY because the 2003 4Runner was awfull and I could not afford the Black Limited. If the design would have been right I would have never hesitated and I would have gone with the Runner despite that it would have not been a Limited.

One thing for sure is that my next truck will be a 4Runner and hopefully a Limited one unless Toyota continue to screw things up which I doubt.

So for now I'll enjoy the LE's Limited ammenities in my somewhat a tad lesser Pathfinder until Toyota fixes things up.

Note: My wife and kids prefer by far the Pathfinder even to my 99 Runner. The problem is only me.

scottb9 · November 2002

Hello. I just want to inform as many people as I can about being careful with your trade in. Less than 3 weeks ago, I thought I agreed with Westborough Toyota (in Mass) on a price for my 2003 4Runner Black Sport. They typed up a temp sales agreement (which included price for my trade, max allowable mileage on my trade, and $$ off the MSRP), we signed, I put $500 bucks down, and I went on my way (waiting for my vehicle to come in). Well, the truck came in yesterday, and I went down there. I had all my loan paperwork ready, and when I arrived, they lowered the price of my trade by $2000 by stating that they had the right to reevaluate my car. I was within the allowable miles that we had agreed upon, and nothing has happenned to the car in the last 3 weeks. I put up a big stink, and then they lowered down to $1000 below what I expected to pay. I can't tell you how rude and inconsiderate the dealership was. They told me that they had the right to change it (which they do) and that they made a mistake before evaluating the car so high. I tried to tell them that they were responsible for the mistakes they made. I took my 500 bucks back, immediately drove down to Bernardi Toyota in Framingham, MA, was treated professionally, upfront, and honestly; I bought the equivalent 4Runner. I got a better deal with Bernardi, and peace of mind.

mjohnr99 · November 2002

Please see my post 290 over on the Nissan Pathfinder Options and Accessories board for a few thoughts on the questions you ask. I have yet to do a full assessment of my post purchase feelings and experience, but so far I am actually happy and feel good that at least I didn't reward Toyota until they get it right . . . which could be 2004? maybe with a color-keyed option (dealers of course have told me "no way"), but I unfortunately had to buy now as the CRX terrarium was on its last limb. As I want to be respectful here to the mission of the board, I beg that we don't let this spin into one of those 4Runner vs. __________ (fill in the blank) debates that I've seen surface now and then over the last 3 years here. They aren't that necessary to fully comment on our views about the new 4Runner, etc. Although world_traveler and I made our choices that were personal decisions assisted in part through dialogue and opinions on this board, that should not begin a debate over who is wrong, who is right, who is smarter, who is cooler. I think world_traveler is just responding to a fair question asked of him (as do I by referring to you post 290) and thus, there is no need for a strong rally to the defense of the Runner. As I said before, I am completely envious of anyone who loves the new look of the things you point out (cladding, spoiler, etc.). That is how I wanted to feel, but had to be honest to myself and acknowledge that it was not happening for me personally. Anyone for which it does happen, you are lucky because the new Runner should be a fine product (even superior) and a great decision. Just for me, even after a 3 year wait and loving the 3rd Gen and being one of these so-called "new customers" (i.e., I've never owned a Runner, only aspired to), for the money Toyota wanted on a supercharged 3rd Gen, and now for a committee-designed 4th Gen, there was no way I was going to pay all that if it was not right. What I've learned from this is looks/image seems to be a lot more of the equation than I originally thought. Guess that is why so much is spent on Madison Avenue.

It's kind of sad to me here to think back when Corey's first spy shot came out and the overall reaction was "this must be a prototype!" For anyone who read through the off-road boards at that time (can't mention them here), these hardcore guys that like to boulder-bash like intmed99 were ripping the new look apart (although they loved the new engines and wanted to retrofit into their 3rd Gens). But intmed99 has a relatively new awesome 3rd gen and can afford to wait if he wants to - people like me interested in purchasing now can not. Any newcomers would have fun reading through those old posts and comparing them to now as potential purchasres like jcla7 try to rationalize this cladding, etc. I note: not one thing has changed between that first spy shot and the real deal. How niave was I to think the skunk-stripes on the Limited were plastic shrink-wrap to protect the bumpers in shipping?! ;> Even the long-time posters here that also are Toyota dealers had negative things to say about the cladding (you have to read back and read things sequentially and closely). Anyway, see how things go jcla7, it's a process we all go through. In a way the process of rationalization felt like it was leading me to tunnel-vision and overfocus which now that I broke free, I have a different perspective about the gamut of real choices out there. I believe that's called competition. In the end though, I just wish I had 11 more months of life on that CRX - if I've waited 3 years, I know I could have easily waited a few more months to see whether Toyota would creatively figure out how to get monochrome back into the line in 2004 without upsetting the buyers of '03s (delicate balacing act, if even possible). Good luck to you! Maybe I will see you over on the "dark side" . . . ;>

Note: world_traveler, even though you are in Canada and I am in US, our wives must think the same. After mine drove the LE with all the features for the price (including the new vehicle stability control, 240 HP, leather, heated and memory seats, steering wheel Bose radio and cruise controls, new electric rear hatch for the pooch, etc., etc.,) she actually yelled at me for spending all this time holding out on a supercharged 3rd Gen SR5. Problem here was always me. If the 4th Gen had the appearance it deserves, I would be right with you buying one.

jcla7 · November 2002

Thanks to mjohnr99 and WT for their usual good advice. It helps.

iceman50 · November 2002

Did you pay MSRP or less? Did you negotiate the sales price before you negotiated the trade-in value? Just curious what dealers in Mass. are selling the 4Runners for.

mreilly2 · November 2002

Just wanted to let you know that there is a review of the New 4runner in USAToday (Friday 11/1). The author praises the 4runner's mechanicals, interior, and ride quality for the most part, but calls the exterior unattractive, ugly, and makes comparisons to the Avalanche and Aztec (of all things)...Sort of in line with the sentiments and opinions expressed by the majority of folks on this message board.

A quote in case you don't have access to the paper (I hope this is acceptable, if not please delete):

"...The outside is ugly. From a distance, the silhouette's engaging. Up close, not.

Reasonable people often disagree on matters of taste, but, please, ax the
cladding, running boards and overwrought details. Toyota says the look is
neither silly nor evocative of the Pontiac Aztec..."

But please check the rest out for yourself.

Perhaps Toyota will see this kind of bad press and think about changing the design within the next two years so that we don't have to live with the current version for the next seven. I've got my fingers crossed.

peter78 · November 2002

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/ChevyAvalanche/Images/Front.jpg

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/Toyota4Runner/Images2/RightFrontSR5.jpg

------------------------

*My apologies to Dan Fogelberg & Tim Weisberg

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=SEARCH&sql=Aemf3zfhheh6k

stever · November 2002

Short quotes are fine, Mreilly2. Here's the rest of the USAToday review.

Steve, Host

Toyota 4Runner

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