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well . . . maybe we can go after them for a tort claim involving "intentional infliction of emotional distress" if they had this contingency plan since release but good luck proving that! ;>>> Negligence? doubtful, no duty owed. [just kidding with all this . . . but having fun making the point.]
Although this does not even implicate the question of notice, no one can cry foul here because everyone has been on notice of this issue. Everyone comes to a decision in his or her own right. I have no sour grapes even with the possible change looming. For me (and any folks who just bought 4th Gens), it was the right decision given all the variables at a given point in time for that person. If you believe others who say differently, you will live a life of regrets. Case in point: 9 Months ago everyone was paying $250 for the nifty Motorola V60i cell phone from verizon; then I buy one a month ago and get them down to what I thought was a deal at $130; now I see in today's paper Verizon offering the same phone for $50. So, should I start blaming Verizon? No. Myself? No. Friends who gloat that they made a better decision than you at the $50 price. Yes. They're not friends if they play that game. Reminds me of neighbors always trying to compare and brag about who locked in on their refi at the lowest and "right" time. As far as I can tell, those who bought the cladding look (or bought other vehicles) did so knowing what they were doing and probably have few regrets. I for one am simply disappointed with Toyota's decision to try the new cladding look at a time when I couldn't afford to wait. Others who have bought and focused on the "view from the inside" seem happy with their purchase given all things under consideration at their time of purchase. It is important to make statements with your pocketbook, feedback, phone calls, etc. so that Toyota can assess its choices and perhaps reconsider - but I can't blame them one bit for what I ultimately decided to do. If you have any doubts about this and feel that you may have regrets and would feel Toyota really duped you into buying - they my advice is and has been to wait if you can. It's hard to do, but car buyer's remorse is even harder. If you work through your unique situation and timing carefully and rationally, then I believe any vehicle purchased can be had with no legitimate "regrets" (which is different from "disappointment" which can not be prevented unless just lucky that you bought at the time the phone was $50, or rates were at their lowest, etc.) even if Toyota comes out with a mid-year 500 HP, solid gold, James bond version that gets 100 MPG and only costs $30 grand. That is the goal I think. And ignore "friends" who try to tell you otherwise . . . again, good luck - very interested to see how this all works out.
About suing: What I meant is that people who bought the 4Runner despite the cladding are likely to be pissed at Toyota. I admit that I should not have referred to suing. Please dismiss, I guess I was in a bad mood, sorry.
Who was that poster giving out that number and trying to get every one hyped up to call Toyota? Are you still following this board?
Yet, the 4Runner is "off-road" version??!! I don't get it. How about the 4Runner having limited headroom because it is "sporty"?? What happen to it's emphasis on off-road?? Mixed messages!
The brake thing is weirder though - if they could put one in the GX, they should have put a hand brake in the Runner too - it is a lot more useful that way, even if there is uphill-assist.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Bob
1) Toyota better do something about the cladding quickly on the SR5 or they are going to have enough SR5s on their dealer lots for a small country. All the dealers in Atl seem to have a bunch of em just sittin there, collecting dust and burnin away holdback $$.
2) I hope the solution is more than painting the current cladding on the SR5 since it is still sooo bulky. The Sequoia solution seems the best to limit color choices on the SR5 (using the same molding as the Limited) and provide color keying on the Limited only to preserve the category IMO.
I will bet the SR5 sales would pick up 10 to 20% if they fixed the hideous molding issue.
Mackabee
I had to agree.
Wonder, what, if any, survey was made by Toyota before cladding production approval?
My question is, can I use a similar method with the numerous Toyota dealers near me? I went to the Toyota web site and found out the option packages that are sent to my region. I want a 4Runner Limited in titanium with the top level option package. I am in no hurry, as I am used to waiting three to four months for domestic special orders.
Do you think this procedure will work with Toyota dealers? Thanks.
Hope this helps.
Next, I agree with Ken that there is more to a good deal than the lowest price. Finding an honest dealer is hard to do but possible and worth the effort. Even if you pay $400 more but don't feel slimed at the end, you got a great deal. I've seen and heard too many horror stories to believe that it doesn't matter who you buy from.
My suggestion would be to send e-mail to everybody and examine the results. Throw out any that don't answer your questions on the first attempt. Find the one that is the most responsive and work with him to make sure the price is fair.
I drove it home from the dealership in 1996. I think that it is so pronounced because the rest of
the vehicle is so quiet; there is very little engine, exhaust, road or tire noise. Initially I thought that there was something wrong with my vehicle because there was so much wind noise; I had
it back at the dealership many times in the 1st year to try and get some satisfaction but to no
avail. It seems to be the most noisy when it is a relatively dry day; as it there does not seem
to be too much wind noise when it is rainy. I think there are atleast 2 major contributing factors
to the wind noise problem; the first is just the shape of the vehicle, and the second is the general lack of sound deadening material in the doors and the thin glass in the doors. Overall,
the previous generation seemed to have a more "solid" feel in the doors and body panels although it was no quieter. It was just a different type of noise coming from the tires, engine,
and road. I am sorry that I cannot give you much hope for solving the wind noise problem.
http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/toyota/4runner_2003/index.asp
Enjoy!
I have a 99 4runner sr5 limited, with 72,000 miles on it. It's my 4th toyota, and I've never previously had to replace a timing belt....but I think that time has come near. I know there is a 60k mile window for changing, but on a service checkup a few months ago, was advised it was fine. Now, however, something is a little off and I can't quite put my finger on it. I'm certainly not very experienced mechanically, but I've been known to change out fuel and water pumps on classic cars in younger days....but I'm really starting to question my engine evaluation skills.
"Trigger" has begun running somewhat sluggishly - I've checked tranny fluid thinking that to be the cause of sluggish umph from a dead stop, changed all the filters, and checked what I could under the hood. But I'm not able to find anything to point me in a further direction. I did some extensive traveling in Utah from Texas, and the octane rating regulations there are less than here - so even using premium there was the equivalent to medium grade here, and I didn't always do that.
There is no knocking or pinging, and I've tried a couple of fuel treatments. My thoughts are jumping to timing belt fatigue.
I have not been able to find much information that describes symptoms of a fading timing belt, but my assumption is running higer operating temps because of the water pump link.
Has anyone else experienced timing belt problems, and is this one? Or has someone experienced the sluggishness at about this mileage?
Thanks for any comments/thoughts.
Timing belts do stretch ever so slightly, but usually not enough to mess up the timing. They tend not to stretch, but to break. What usually happens is the engine is running fine until the belt breaks. Then of course, the engine doesn't run. Their is not a symptom of any kind before the break.
If a serviceman says your timing belt is fine. Well it is fine, until it breaks. A serviceman cannot tell if a belt will break just by looking at it. That is if they even looked at it, it is hard to get to. It is better to go by the service schedule.
Now about the water pump. They usually recommend replacing the water pump when they replace the timing belt, because the water pump is run by the timing belt. If the water pump should start failing or start leaking, it could affect the timing belt and the belt could then break.
So if your 4Runner is sluggish, chances are it is another problem. It may not be the transmission, it could be in the electrical system. Taking it to a shop, even a non-Toyota dealer, can probably yield results. Once they run a computer check on the engine, it will probably show something.
Now I have a question for the board. My 2001 4Runner has a 90,000 timing belt replacement. If "canyongirl" replaces her timing belt on the 99 4Runner, does the replacement stay at 60,000 or go up to 90,000?
Thank you for giving me some insight on this matter. It's really not as a bad as I'm making it out to be I guess. I've researched the problem on the internet and it turns out that many vehicles that are large such as SUV's and other trucks produce significantly more wind noise than cars. It's due to the size of the vehicle. The bigger it is, the more wind resistance you are going to create and hear inside the vehicle. I was on the highway today coming to work again and it was not as bad as the other day. Maybe there was more wind that day than today, I don't know. But this is one truck that I'm definitely going to keep. It rides so great and it's smooth, not to mention I get lots of looks while driving it. The reason I get those looks are because the truck is just very attractive and pleasing to the eyes of most individuals. The design is beautiful and classic. I wouldn't trade my 4Runner for anything.
2. The timing belt interval for all '96-'02 Runners is 90K - even when it was listed at 60K this was for the "severe service" interval only. I know several people with 3rd gen Runners, and they let their timing belts go to 90K routinely without problem, as I do in my 2nd gen. If you are a very cautious person, or you often find yourself way out in the wilderness where getting a tow could be problematic, you might want to change it sooner...
P.S. They usually recommend changing the water pump with the timing belt because it has to come off either way, so there is no charge for labor if they do it at the same time, and water pumps do wear out.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
hope this helps.
Any suggestions for how much mileage I can belive a 4 runner will usually last?
Any particular milestones I should be looking out for?
Thanks!
Pete
The 80s trucks tend to succumb to rollovers and accidents and rust before their powertrain gives up, so look for those things!
As far as the 3rd gen with the 3.4L V-6, I haven't personally seen any with really high mileage yet, but they are still a little too new for that (since '96). There is no reason to think these will not go just as long as the older ones, in fact there is good reason to think these are the best series yet.
Make sure if it is a V-6 that the timing belt was changed at around 90K. Make sure to have the brakes checked - they tend to go thru front brakes, and warping rotors is a problem that several people I know have experienced.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://www.4x4wire.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=014087
Having driven some good cars till they die, I would say it cost about 2 1/2 more in maintenance for the second 100,000 miles, than the first 100,000. After 200,000 miles it gets to the point on how much the SUV is worth versus the repairs.
The economy in WNY is crappy, so there was no way MSRP would hold for long. I've even seen Honda Pilots at 1k off sticker...that's when you know its bad!
Other than the hitch height problem, the Runner did an excellent job pulling the trailer. You really notice the V8 torque when pulling a 3,000 lb. trailer! The standard 7 pin trailer connector is great. So is the furnished brake controller plug. However, I do wish there was a good place provided for the controller itself. Mine is mounted under the dash above the gas pedal and is almost in the way.
I pulled this trailer around with an '01 Highlander last summer. It did the job, but the Runner is clearly much better suited for towing this size trailer--especially with the self-leveling air suspension. It took me a while to find a Runner with this option, but it was worth it.
One other question. My Limited has the LED spots of light on the end of the speed and tach needles. The photo of the gauges in the Toyota Powerpoint program I saw also shows these "points of light" indicators on the ends of the gas and temp pointers. Mine does not have this. Is that a change in specs, or perhaps are my indicators not working correctly?
I'll be towing 4,000 lbs 5,000 or so miles next season, and I'm glad to hear your maiden voyage with the '03 went well. I've towed with a '98 4Runner Limited for the past five years, and it needed more torque.
Our '03 has the "points of light" only on the tach and speedo needles.
Did you get the traction control "off" switch the owner's manual says is supposed to be there, next to the diff lock switch? I didn't.
-Karl, '03 Limited 4WD V8, Titanium, all options except nav.
Apparently they changed the design on the gauge needle "spots of light" from when they did the Powerpoint show. Not a big loss, but I do like that feature on the speed and tach pointers.
No, I don't have a "traction control off" switch either. I have an AC power switch, diff lock, and two blanks there.
We wanted you, a 4Runner enthusiast, to be one of the first to know that the 2003 4Runner
with all-new V6 engine is available now (check with a dealer nearest you for availability).
The all-new 4.0-liter V6 aluminum engine gives the larger, roomier 2003 4Runner the power
it needs to scale the peaks. The new V6 delivers 245 horsepower at 5,200 rpm and generates
282 lb.-ft. of torque at 3,800 rpm, one of the highest six-cylinder torque capabilities in its segment.
This lightweight V6 has Variable Valve Timing with intelligence (VVT-i) and features a new
linkless Electronic Throttle Control System with intelligence (ETCS-i) that improves performance
and increases fuel economy. All V6 models will feature a 4-speed automatic transmission.
So, even when you're heading to a remote mountain peak, the 4Runner has what it takes to
get you to the top.
See the all-new 2003 4Runner with all-new V6 engine at your local Toyota dealer.
Sent by:
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/4runner/price/4runner_price.html
1.) I guess we have to consider the V6 is a all aluminium engine, which cost more than a V6 with a cast iron block. Both a cast iron or aluminium block have the their pros and cons.
2.) The V6 has a variable valve timing. All the bells and whistles that go with it cost money. Don't forget the V6 has more horse power and this is the main reason for it. You have to rev more, but you do get more, horse power at least.
3.) A all new design, more start up cost.
I know the market will decide on the real price difference, but if it were me, I would favor the V8 with the 5 speed automatic for another $800. Biggest reason for me is the V8 is a known design and is well respected. It is smooth and well designed engine. More power and torque in the lower end of the power band. More torque overall. As far as reliability who knows about the V6, maybe it won't be re-called like the 3.0 V6 and 3.4 V6 in the last generations of 4Runners. But then maybe it will.
Now if we can only work on that cladding on the side of the thing.