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You must not be in the south bay ( silicon valley) since I have not been able to find any dealer in the local area willing to move more than a $500 discount off of MSRP. and I have 7 dealers within 15 miles of my house.
San Francisco
Vallejo
Oakland
Putnam
Antioch
Walnut Creek was at $1000 off MSRP, and Concord was only at $500 off... With Hayward coming in last at $0 off MSRP!!! :sick:
Anyway, there you go! Are you dealing with them through emails? I was able to get these prices by emailing back and forth over the course of two days.
I was surprise given it's fairly new car. It seemed like a nice car but I have no money
to even consider the car!
I own a Highlander that has been a great vehicle. But I believe the Venza just may be right for me.
Also, I can't remotely turn off the car after I get out of it, but the instructions say all I have to do is press and hold lock for two seconds to shut the engine off.
Any input would be appreciated... Thank you!
Not a good review and I think it's a sentiment that's been argued by others as well: why not make a true Camry station wagon using the existing Camry?
The reference in the article to there being only 2 mid-size, non-luxury station wagons -- the Legacy and Passat -- answers that question. Consumers are telling auto makers that they want something different. It's certainly possible the Venza isn't the answer, but give Toyota credit for trying.
Also, the WSJ author's calculation of a $5K difference between a "similarly equipped" Camry and Venza is misleading. In terms of equipment, the base Venza is closest to a Camry SE with the Convenience Package, which is about $23.8K. That makes the Venza premium just $2.9K and the Venza would still have an equipment advantage with its dual-zone auto AC, 6-disc CD changer, and multi-info display.
This is why I prefer to read real-world experiences in these forums rather than "professional" reviews that are either haphazardly written to make a point or are simply canned regurgitations from manufacturers' press events.
I just wish some of these writers (and the WSJ author isn't the only one) were a little more accurate in their justifications for their opinions. Granted, they hop from car-to-car without really understanding any one vehicle. And I suppose people who eliminate the Venza based entirely on a single review are only short-changing themselves -- every vehicle is at least worth a test drive.
Back to the WSJ author's contention that the Venza is overpriced relative to a sedan, another comparison between Toyota's sedans and the Venza would have been a Venza V6 versus an Avalon.
The base Venza and Avalon XL are pretty close in features (3.5V6, 6 speed auto, dual-zone AC, 6-disc CD changer, power driver's seat, cloth seats).
The base Venza V6 FWD is about $28.5K. The Avalon XL is also about $28.5K. The Avalon is 8 inches longer and 2 inches narrower. Interior dimensions are about the same between the two.
YES I MEANT TO USE CAPS TO SHOW MY PASSION AND DISGUST WITH THE VENZA BASHING
#1: The fact that the Venza has generated enough PASSION for you to write in all caps is a win for Toyota. Toyota isn't exactly known for generating models with passion.
#2: I was going to comment on the article at WSJ.com, but couldn't because they actually expect you to pay for the privilege of posting your opinion.
I've test driven the V6 FWD several times (and loved it) but am waiting for a V4 to come to Charlotte. (Save a couple thousand $$ and mileage slightly better). My Highlander lease runs out in June so am looking to replace it. My thoughts now are V4 FWD with Pkg#1 and Pan Roof. It also may depend on availability and what kind of deal I can get.
I've enjoyed reading all the comments. Anybody else from the Carolinas? What kind of deals are you finding?
Thanks!
It's unfortunate that some people may not even test drive it due to someone else's opinion (again, thanks WSJ).
I read many of those same articles, but only let them influence me to a small degree, and make-up my mind based on my own experiences, not someone else's.
I test drove a Venza last week after looking at the Rav4 and Highlanders. The Venza drives quite nice, for a CAR. Salesman told me it was built on the RX350 chassis and it makes sense. Same goofy shifter location. Lots of storage though. Gentlemen, if your significant other can't find anything in their purse, they will be losing stuff until the end of time in the cavern between the front seats! Huge glovebox too. Not fond of the center stack styling. AC controls look misplaced with the shifter located where it is. Could have made it a lot better by moving the shifter down to the console. No shortage of room....
I also did not care for the thick A-pillars that severely restricted front side visibility. The little window does not help. Made me a bit nervous on the drive.
The downside and a biggy: This is the first model year AND it's built in the US. Danger, Warning! All four Venzas that I looked at had fit and finish issues - window molding not aligned, lower rocker panel misaligned, quarter panels not flush with mating panels/bumpers :surprise: , windshield trim wavy, and the fake wood plastic insert on the rear doors has a sharp edge that is a lawsuit waiting to happen and many other 'non-Toyota like' problems :lemon: . I would wait until '11 to buy one if considering it - if it last that long.
The WSJ's review doesn't change things for me in the slightest. I almost had a Venza last weekend but the dealership mentioned one interest rate range on the phone, on Monday, and by Saturday had almost doubled it, thus I walked out. Then they guilt tripping me into buying it later in the week. If they had just stuck by their numbers, I'd have a new car sitting in my garage!
I like the Venza. The fact that it's being compared to luxury cars should make Toyota proud. I find the amenities very nice for a car of this caliber.
Not only that, but think of insurance. You're not paying insurance for a "luxury" car or luxury repairs or premium 93 octane gas, etc.
I'm going to wait until I can muster up the cash to just buy one outright. But of all the cars I've looked at over the course of a year (been planning for a while), the Venza fits the bill for me.
The over priced comment has been covered here, but the issue of the 19" tires combined with the awd is interesting.
I have yet to read what the benefits of Toyota using 19" tires on vehicle of this type is to justify the extra cost and weight. What are the benefits of an oversized tire? All I can think of is the replacement cost.
As far as awd, I have owned a couple in the past and have concluded nobody really needs it on a street vehicle. I lived three winters with a fwd HL in the snowiest city in the US and never had a problem. It's the awd/4wd cowboys that were always the first you saw in a ditch during a storm.
I hope to read more real world comments on the 19"/awd combo.
Wheels larger than 16" are primarily for styling. The Infiniti FX35 started the huge wheel crossover trend a few years ago, Toyota joins the party slightly late and kind of after the fad has past.
As for AWD, I have found it to be very helpful in winter driving. It doesn't do much for stopping or turning but it does help you get started and maintain direction and momentum.
Unlike the previous poster, I usually see conversion vans in the ditches first, followed by high powered RWD sports cars and sedans, and then the more vanilla vehicles like CamCords. I think the 4wd in the ditch issue is primarily in California ski areas where flatlanders unaccustomed to snow think 4wd is a reason to violate the laws of physics.
What really surprised me was the low seating position. Even at maximum height I was barely any higher than in our 2003 Avalon, and about the same as our 2002 Saab 9-3. I am average height, but do enjoy having lot of clearance over the dash. In the Venza, at the highest seat setting I still had 2-3 inches of headroom, but would gladly have sacrificed some of this for a higher seat. Magazine articles and readers' comments had led us to believe that the Venza provided almost an SUV seat height. Not so. Although the Venza is frequently compared to the Lexus RX350, the Lexus has a higher seat and loads of headroom.
I was also disappointed in the Venza's styling. The low roof and the extended butt seem contrived. The Lexus (particularly the 2010 version) is much more proportional and sensible. I may have to pay an extra $5000 for the Lexus, but the 4-year full warranty, the higher quality and the dealer reputation will easily sway us from the Venza.
When I test drove the Venza, what struck me was not so much the seat height, but the expanse of the dash area compared to a truck-based SUV like my 4Runner. The large dash and small side windows made me feel like I was sitting lower than I actually was.
Earlier in this thread, there were actual measurements of a Venza's seating height and my 4Runner. I believe the seating height (at both the highest and lowest positions) of the Venza was roughly 5 inches lower than the 4Runner. If anyone has access to a Highlander and an RX, that would probably be a better comparison.
Looking at the dimensions of the Venza and the 2010 RX, the Venza is 3 inches shorter, has 0.8 inch higher ground clearance, and is about 1 inch longer and wider.
Here are the Cliff Notes....but you should visit and verify for yourself
The RAV is smaller all around and sits up higher. It has the 2.5L I4 and the 3.5L V6. But the RAV is an entry level vehicle. It feels and rides like an entry level utility vehicle in the quality of the amenities and especially in the ride and 'feel'. It's bouncier and noisier....more basic. You can get a standard RAV beginning at ~$22900 then go all the way up to $30000 MSRP.
The Venza is somewhat bigger all around but the seating position is more car-like intentionally. The two power plants will be the 2.7L I4 and the same 3.5L V6. The Venza serves as a bridge between the RAV and the Highlander. It's much nicer in ride and interior quality than the RAV with nicer amenities but it only has room for 5...like most RAVs. It's almost exactly the same size as the Camry/Highlander in overall dimensions. It has less overall room than the Highlander but more than the RAV....and that's intentional. Th pricing will range from about $26000 - $38000.
The Highlander has about the same footprint as the Venza except that it's taller thus it has more usable room. It will have the same two drive trains as the Venza. It will normally be configured to seat 7 people rather than the 5 in both the RAV and Venza. The materials will be somewhat nicer and ride will be smoother and quieter than either the RAV or the Venza. Allegedly it will be available from about $26000 Base. But realistically the Highlanders will have MSRPs ranging from about $29000 to $48000 ( hybrid-loaded ).
In normal times...
the RAV should sell 150,000 to 200,000 units
the Venza should sell about 75,000 units
the Highlander should sell about 150,000 to 200,000 units
The purpose of the Venza is quite limited. It's there to offer a bridge between the two main vehicles. In doing so it helps support the pricing of the Highlander the more important vehicle price-wise while at the same time offering the buyers a significant upgrade over the RAV.
So do you need seating for 7? There's really only one choice.
Are you limited in what you can spend? There's one or maybe two choices but both are 5 seaters.
Do you need a huge amount of cargo room? That's the Highlander.
Do you want a hybrid? That's the Highlander.
You don't want a more basic vehicle and would prefer an AWD 'car'? That's the Venza.
It's about the same size with the same footprint as the Highlander but the Venza gets 10% better fuel economy. It's much nicer and bigger than the RAV but the fuel economy is nearly identical.
2009 EPA ratings.
RAV V6 ............ 19 / 27 / 22 Comb
Venza V6 ......... 19 / 26 / 22 Comb
Highlander V6 ... 18 / 24 / 20 Comb
It has noticeably less room, but its pricing isn't much different. Toyota introduces and advertises the Venza while only having highly optioned and priced V6 models available giving it a reputation of being expensive. The Camry is a big seller because it gives a lot of value in the LE model while being able to drive it home for under $20K. If Toyota wants volume out of the Venza, I think it will need to put out a well equipped 4 cylinder similar to the Camry LE at around $25K off the lot.
See prior post. The Venza is never intended to be a high volume vehicle. At full production of 75,000 units with 1250 retail dealers that means that each store should make 5 sales per month on average. That means that at any time at an average local store there might be 4 or 6 in stock. Most stores have 15 to 60 Camry's in stock at any one time.
Yes the I4 will likely fall in the $25000 range.
Otherwise I think this will be a low volume model and potentially end up like the Chrylser Pacifica and Ford Freestyle/Taurus X. Ford had to get fairly aggresive in discounts and promotions to up the Edge sales volumes and keep it from going the way of Taurus X. I wonder if the rumored new Honda SUV this fall will be similar to the Venza, and if so, how it will be priced? While minivans are less popular, I also think one of the reasons the Honda Odyssey has seen sales declines is that they got overly aggresive with pricing and now are having to give dealers big bucks back to move them. The list price on a new EX-L is better than 4 grand higher than an 04 was and I think people have taken notice with tighter wallets.
Yes the Venza has always been intended as a lower volume vehicle...as compared to the two biggies the RAV and the Highlander. Since it's produced at Georgetown it essentially takes over the Solara's production slot.
Available interior space is more useable, since for most purposes it is footprint that matters most: in real world situations we don't pile cargo to the roof, past the back window, blocking rearview and making it difficult to open back hatch; so true useable cargo space is essentially a wash. HL Limited has 19" tires: the OE are very poor tires, and only one winter tire (Blizzak) is available and it is sold out for the year. Venza 20" tires are excellently-rated Michelins (see tirerack.com) and very good in snow, and there are several other quality 20" tires available. V interior, while plastic, is not far below Lexus for easily 10K cheaper, comparably equipped (and 20K below Audi A6 3.0T, which might have been my choice if not for the last 5 years of enduring poor Audi quality control and spotty service). All in all, while not perfect, it is the best compromise choice for us who prefer the wagon/crossover-car configuration--and that, as market research (my industry) shows, is an ever-increasing demographic. Toyota did their research; like they, I expect the V to do well.
Venza vs. Highlander
Venza vs. Camry
The outline of the Highlander includes the roof rack, so the difference in height is a bit exaggerated.
I disagree that the Highlander has nicer materials than the Venza. The Venza has soft-touch dash and upper door surfaces (in the front, at least) versus the Highlander's nicely grained, but hard, plastic. In almost every area in the interior, the Venza is at least as nice -- and usually more so -- than the utilitarian Highlander.
I see the Venza and Highlander as peer vehicles in the lineup that will appeal to different groups of shoppers. Both are about the same physical size (i.e. someone who finds the Highlander to be "too big" will likely find the Venza "too big" as well). Both have the same engine options and roughly the same price range.
Road and Track spy report on Accord crossover,
link: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=7542&cid=145
Frontal Driver: 5 stars
Frontal Passenger: 5 stars
Side Front Seat: 5 stars
Side Rear Seat: 5 stars
Rollover: 4 stars
The Highlander scored 4 stars on the frontal passenger test, but had the same scores for the other areas.
The agent said the low increase was probably due to the crash-worthiness of the Venza.
Whatever the reason, it was a pleasant surprise.
Now, if the sucker will just GET HERE! :shades:
.
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On the S10 they are insuring an 11 y.o. which is 'worth' about $5000 or so. Thus if it's totalled in an accident they're only on the hook for this amount. If your new Venza were to be totalled then they're on the hook for at least 6 times as much. The financial exposure is at least $30000 or more.
And why market a F/awd Venza with the new I4 but not the HL..??
Weight..??
Venza I4 F/awd curb weight = 3945
HL V6 F/awd curb weight = 4178
HL I4 curb weight = 3847
maybe not...??
That having been said, there has been some talk in Congress of a tax rebate for new car purchases. Why would anyone buy with that "dangling" as a possibility.
I like the Venza and may want to make a move on the car .... but I at least want to drive a 4 cylinder first. I suspect that may be just what I need. I am not interested in towing (I have a 2500 truck for that purpose); and I am not interested in 6.7 seconds 0-60 mph, or 7 passengers. But I am not interested in an engine that protest loudly getting on and over the Interstate. I own a HL with the V6, and it has been a good engine.
Let us know when the 4's start to appear.
At this point Venza demand is likely exceeding supply, certainly by a wide margin for the I4 if you happened to mention that as your primary point of interest.
They are among the best-in-class in every segment they're in, both in power and in fuel economy.
I'd guess then that the base FWD is going to be right around $26500 - $27000.
I am not absolutely convinced I want the 4 cylinder ... but I do want to drive one before I make a decision. I recently sold a 2004 4 cyl Acura, and while it was a much lighter vehicle, that 4 cylinder (with vtec) was powerful, quick, quiet and efficient. The Venza 4 cylinder is a much larger displacement engine than the Acura ... in fact, it is almost as big as the 2001 V6 in the HL.
I will be watching for your post.
By the way .... what is a "Venza?" Does it come from a Japanese word? I wonder what it means. I keep referring to it as a Verza, and my wife corrects me .. it is a Venza.
The auto tax relief amendment sponsored by Senator Mikulski would be for purchases from November 12, 2008 to December 31, 2009. So if it does happen, it would still apply to purchases as far back as November.
But then by that time there may be an RX275h using this same I4 but with DFI and Atkinson. Or maybe just a plain old RX225.
From the very beginning it was stated that the I4's wouldn't be available before Feb 09. This was announced last Fall. Actually they are going to begin to arrive in good quantities next week....exactly on schedule. Don't you think that you're being a little unrealistic?
Maybe you missed the initial launch schedule. Now you know it.
The pricing is in Canadian dollars.