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Comments
My son (5yrs)saw the truck and said, "Sweeeeet!"
I'm starting to think the toyota guard was a sucker move. I paid for it but am supposed to bring the truck back in couple weeks to have it done because there is a wait--so many suckers. I might see if I can get out of that.
As far as the $650 for another 36 months bumber to bumbercoverage, this my thinking: I already have 36 btb coverage for the first 36 mo/36k miles, and powertrain coverage for the first 60 mo/ 60 k miles. So the $650 pays for a bet that I will spend over $650 on repairs during months 37 thru 60 that are not powertrain related, or any repairs during month 61 thru 72. Another way to put it, the $650 buys an increase from powertrain coverage to BtB coverage during years 4 an 5 months, plus from no coverage to BtB coverage during year 6. And you are shelling out the $650 three years prior to any of these possible expenses.
That might be a fair bet. I think it is a close call. One repair could bust the bet easily. You also get some peace of mind. But I my experience with my bullet-proof Sienna, and my confidence in the quality of the 4Runner bring me to passing on the additional coverage. I can see how other reasonable mind would differ though.
And now it's time to go for a drive.....Ohhh yeaaaa.....
I think the Toyoguard for $200 is not a bad deal. Remember, it also gives you some roadside asistance (running out of gas, locked keys in truck, etc) so at invoice, it might be a coin flip. I opted not to get it just for the fact that it had the paint sealant. I want to start on a Zaino Bro's program and didn't want anything on the paint ahead of time.
Also, IMO, the $650 for the warranty isnt too bad. You're right - some of that is peace of mind. On my last truck lease, I paid extra for 15K miles per year. I knew I would never drive that (I think it worked out to just shy of 13.5K per year) but I didn't want to have to worry once I hit the mark and knew I was paying .10 a mile after that. I just wanted to drive and forget about it. I think I'd take the $650 if it's offered to me at the time of purchase, although if anyone knows where to buy these cheaper on te internet, I'd appreciate the advice.
Have fun in the new truck!
Aaron
Thanks!
It performed flawlessly on my annual ride down to Laguna Seca for the World Superbike races in July. It is indispensable for finding alternate routes in unfamiliar cities, which is exactly what happened when we arrived in Monterey. There was an accident, which totally messed up the final hours of our ride. That is where the SP III came in. I asked it to calculate the "shortest" route instead of the "fastest" route, and it quickly directed us out of the backup, on to surface roads, around the backup.
I am sure this is a common feature on most GPS, I guess what I am saying is that I spend alot of time on the bike, and wanted a unit that I could transfer to other vehicles.
Erisarep, YES post the pics of your mount. I am very interested. I love "HomeDepot solutions"!
Forget about ToyoGuard-- think "Zaino" instead.
FYI: With the 4Runner's nav. system, if you miss a turn, encounter a closed exit, etc., the 4Runner's navigation system will almost instantly recalculate a new route to get you back on course, without any prompting from the driver. And like the Garmin, once a destination is programmed into the 4Runner's nav. system, it often produces several routing options which you can preview and select, such as the quickest, vs. shortest routes. In addition, the various routing options are stored in the system, and you can change your mind and opt for one of the other suggested routings at any time.
Finally, I'll mention that the 4Runner's nav. system does not seem to allow a new destination address (and probably certain other data entries as well) to be entered while the vehicle is moving. I find this to be an outstanding safety feature, since even if a front passenger or "co-pilot" might be along to help enter new data, the driver could still become quite distracted and involved with helping the co-pilot to interface with the computer, and this could easily result in an accident. Do the Garmin units have this type of safety feature?
1. V6 or V8?
2. XREAS or standard?
We won't drive it a whole lot (neither of us commutes by car, prefer bike) and it's mostly going to be a long-trip vacation vehicle with the occasional off-road use. (No, don't try to convince me to get a Pilot or a Highlander
And:
3. How would you go about getting the lowest price? I'm in no hurry and can easily wait for a custom order. What do people think about dealer-negotiation (I do fairly well with that sort of thing, but wouldn't mind avoiding the hassle) versus getting quotes by e-mail or web-based services?
Thanks for your input.
1. Yes the Garmin SP III will recalculate a new route if you miss a turn or go off route, (w/o prompting).
2. Yes the SP III has a setting that will keep you from doing several things, like searching for a new address.
As an bike rider I appreciate your attention to the road! You wouldn't believe how often people change lanes in to, turn left in front of, and just plain don't see us.
You think paying attention to your driving is important?? Put yourself in the saddle of a motorcycle... ;-)
If memory serves, Classic Soft Touch installed the new leather covers. They come out take out the seats and door panels, and the next day they come back with all your stuff recovered.
Third row - I do not recommend the third row option in the 4R. This rig was NOT designed for it. If seating is what you need, get the Sequoia.
The Tourage is very tempting, but I think you are correct let them work out the bugs, (aka, undocumented features).
1. You don't drive it much so the V6 is less $ and a better value
2. Majority of time for road trips where the V6 has better MPG's and more HP for the freeway
3. V6 is a LEV vehicle. Good for the environment
Also HIGHLY recommend XREAS. Especially for road trips. It tackles twisting mountain roads with ease and makes it a pleasure. This is no sportscar mind you but XREAS makes on-road driving very enjoyable.
I recommend the V6 Sport Edition (XREAS, 17" wheels standard) or the SR5 is also a great deal even without XREAS. It's the base model but it isn't "stripped". It's a really nice ride too.
If you need a place to host the pictures, let me know! I'd be happy to post them for all to see.
Aaron
I recommend the XREAS suspension and also side air bags.
The X-REAS and side airbags also bring peace of mind. I definitely am happy with the X-REAS as handling is much improved and feels much sportier than either the old model 4Runner or even 03-04 4Runners w/o X-REAS.
#2 the difference in mpg between the v6 and v8 4Runners is only 1mpg. This is hardly of significance and hardly makes the v6 a fuel thrifty vehicle.
#3 the v8 engine is also considered an LEV, thus "good for the environment." The gigantic Excursion is also an LEV, btw. Also, the 10hp advantage of the v6 is offset by the increased torque of the v8. If a v6 and a v8 were tested for 0-60 times, there would most likely be very little difference.
I am assuming that the milleage estimates that I see calculated by the trip computer are accurate. I know a couple of other people with v8 4Runners with similar results. This is hardly a good sized sample for statistical comparison, but gives me some reasonable means of comparison.
This occurs consistently when calculated for many repeated tanks of gasoline, so is not an isolated error.
Here is a question I have on another subject. In the Limited 4Runner, the steering wheel is leather wrapped, but what about the material that is on the door inserts? Is is genuine leather or virgin vinyl? I haven't been able to decide if I should use Luxol or Vinylex. Any suggestions?
Wouldn't get the sequoia, it's too huge (and has been vetoed already by the better half
V6 vs V8 fuel economy: if you're a conservative driver the V6 would probably get you slightly better mileage, too, so notwithstanding the posts I'll agree with terrafirma (thanks also for the xreas insight); was interested in performance between the two, has anyone driven both of them? I was driving a Grand Cherokee V6 the other day, and boy was that sluggish. Couldn't get up a hill with that thing because it insisted on staying in 4th gear at 1,500 rpm. So I'll expand my question: not just V6 vs V8 but also 4A vs 5A. Any thoughts?
I'm now driving a 2003 4Runner V8 4WD Ltd. My commute is about 1/2 highway and 1/2 suburban roads. Depending upon how aggressive I'm driving, I've averaged between 17 and 18.5 mpg. On the highway, I'm typically driving 70-75 mph. I'd be really surprised to get 20 miles per US gallon. I suppose it might be possible driving a steady 55 mph.
The V6 is rated at 1 mpg more than the V8. That's not a big difference in my mind. Neither are exactly miserly with fuel. But they are significantly better than full-size SUVs (e.g., Tahoe, Suburban, etc.).
There seems to be a consistent error in the 4Runner trip computer of about 2 MPG (2.1 in my case) on the optimistic side. Don't know why, but it seems to be common in other mfr's. and models as well.
Perhaps because of its smaller displacement and variable valve timing, the V6 seems to be a little more efficient in MPG. I think the official figures on the difference vary between 1-2 MPG depending on configuration, and the ability of the V6 to run in 2WD adds a little, too. I'll bet the typical difference on real roads is about 2 MPG, consistent with the actual reports I've read here.
For pure highway driving outside of mountains (and with a light foot!), I think the V6 can do 24 MPG or a little better. But the real world numbers are probably closer to 16 MPG for pure city and 21 for highway on a day-to-day basis.
If anyone out there either owns or services these vehicles (in any trim)...
1. What has been your experience?
2. Are there certain problems they tend to have that I should look out for when shopping?
3. What problems have you had with yours?
Thanks in advance.
As for things you should look out for, I know that certain '99 and '00 4Runners experienced a fuel gauge recall. (The gauge wasn't representing the actual amount of fuel present in the tank.) And other than that, can't really think of any other issues that I've read about. I've only had my SUV in the shop for routine maintenance (oil changes, etc.) You may want to consider a 2001 4Runner just because a few new features were introduced during that model year--namely the stability and traction control system as well as minor cosmetic changes.
I hope this helps...
And do not forget the dreaded rotten egg (sulphur) smell. It tends to affect some V8, but not V6 engines
After much though, I came to appreciate having the full time 4wd system. I admit it is probably more complicated, but I see it as an additional safety feature ensuring that the vehicle has traction at all times.
Insurance for my fully loaded v8 Limited is $1150/year in the NY suburbs, which I can live with. As for "cheaper to service," I purchased the extended warranty, so I don't have worries there. Routine maintenance is identical for both the V6 and V8.
As for the "Sulfur Quagmire," I only experience it when I open the rear cargo area window while driving. My solution is to keep it closed (recommended also in the owner's manual). Of course, this sulfur problem presents itself in different ways and circumstances. I do believe, however, that the sulfur problem is also somehow linked to the build date as I notice that no one has reported having it in an 04 4runner. We shall see.
The only difference is that on the V6, you can select 2wd if you want to save gas and wear on the front half of the drivetrain.
Honestly, I would have preferred Toyota to have offered both the V6 and V8 powered 4Runners with a choice of p/t or f/t 4wd, but I guess this isn't always practical in marketing and development. If one were offered, I would have purchased a v8 p/t 4Runner.
Operating in 2wd mode in any vehicle does cause less wear and tear to the drivetrain components, but many of these components are under warranty. This will be one area where repair costs should be greater in the v8, but probably not prohibitively so. Fuel savings remain insignificant.
In my case, towing was one important factor, as the V8 can tow an additional 2000lbs (5000lbs for the v6, 7000lbs for the v8).
For most people, a V6 is fine. I guess another factor that makes it hard to choose between the engines is that their displacements are so similar. To confound this situation even more, the v6 actually has a greater displacement. For anyone shopping around, make sure to test drive both and see which is best for your needs.
I just hope that Toyota will properly look into the sulfur problem and correct it quickly as no new car owner deserves to drive a vehicle that can be a potential health concern.
Other than that, this may go down in Toyota history as one of the most solid reliable lines of vehicles they have built in the last 30 years. (Mine is a second gen 4WD with the smaller V-6, still going strong having crossed the 200K-mile threshold sometime back)
alfster: since the V-6 is a 4.0 and the V-8 is a 4.7, wouldn't it be the V-8 that has the larger displacement?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
> For most people, a V6 is fine.
That would apply to me.
I poked around in the other discussion groups (thanks for gently pointing that out, corancher) and found them very informative, particularly the "4WD systems explained".
What are the dealer/quotes over web experiences people have had? I live in the SF bay area, Gilroy, Palo Alto, etc are close by.
... never mind, I'll post that on the "prices paid" etc board.
"...In the simplest terms, torque is the twisting force the engine applies to the crankshaft and then on to the transmission.
Power, by contrast, is measured as the torque times the rotational speed. In imperial measures, one horsepower is equal to 550 foot-pounds (of torque) per second. Two engines can produce the same power but have very different torque ratings for the following simple reason:
One horsepower can be produced by moving one pound 550 feet OR by moving 550 pounds one foot, provided that either function is achieved in one second.
The difference comes in the fact that the high-torque engine will be rotating slower than the low-torque engine at the same power output but it will be twisting the crankshaft a lot more vigorously.
In theory, different gear ratios - most commonly four or five in cars' gearboxes - should mask different torque characteristics by altering engine speed to suit but the reality is that engines which produce high torque figures at low revolutions respond much more readily in give and take driving.
[**]The practical advantages [of higher engine torque, all other things being equal] come in the form of reduced gear changing, lower engine revs and wear and, invariably, lower fuel consumption in all conditions other than constant speed driving... torque is therefore more important than horsepower, unless you spend your life racing around at high revs..."
This is the type of reasoning I used when I decided on the V8 4Runner, not to mention actual test driving. Compared with the V6, the muscular V8 offers tremendous acceleration, particularly at lower RPMs (which affords less shifting, etc.), and therefore the V8 stays out of the way of itself, unlike a V6, which may tend to pant, whine, wheeze, and produce wide jumps in RPMs as the tranny tries to downshift and upshift quickly enough in response to the commands of the throttle. For example, when driving over hilly or mountainous highways (e.g., the WVa. turnpike) at highway speeds, an engine with lower torque will often be much more likely to cause the tranny to repeatedly cycle in and out of overdrive when ascending a grade, and if this drives you nuts (and it should) then you'll have to remember to take the truck out of OD mode when going up-grade, and then re-engage OD whenever you're next going down-grade. Then, add in the weight of your mother-in-law, your immediate family, your dog, your fuel, your luggage, etc., and you get the idea... Of course, even when driving over relatively flat terrain, if you're hauling (and/or towing) much added weight, a V6 will likely behave in a similar fashion, because horsepower is a measurement that's quoted based on a higher RPM rating than torque is. All in all, the price and fuel consumption differences between the V6 and V8 may represent false economy in the long run. During highway driving and long highway trips, the V8 will typically run at much lower RPMs than the V6, and this translates into (among other things) less engine noise, whine, and vibration, not to mention less frequent and annoying shifting on
up-grades.
I drive a lot of freeway and 2ndary road miles per week, and in my experience this V8 is simply a magnificent engine. When I need to quickly pass, it does so effortlessly; and when I really need to pass and I'm already cruising at 75 MPH or above, it's as though I've kicked her into afterburner, because she can really SCOOT. And when I'm really "cruising", that muscular V8 is just walking along at much lower RPMs than a V6, with plenty of torque muscle to spare if a downshift is required, without wild swings in engine RPMs.
For those of you who have chosen the V6 and find that it meets all of your needs, I think that's a beautiful thing. But for those of you who are trying to decide between the V6 and the V8, I would urge you to carefully test drive and consider your current and projected needs, then choose accordingly. But whatever you do, don't be seduced merely by the higher horsepower rating of the V6, since we're not talking about a race car here, but rather we're talking about a 4500 lb. TRUCK that most of us are specifying with either 4WD or AWD.
It's not just moving - it's about doing work in a given time. In this case, you would be doing work in one second equivalent to lifting the respective weights against gravity through a distance of 550 feet or 1 foot.
tidester, host
That said, you should be aware that the brakes simply aren't adequate for towing heavy trailers down long, steep downgrades. You will TOTALLY lose your brakes if you don't anticipate this and shift WAY down before you start to descend. This shortcoming shouldn't bother you if you don't tow heavy loads in the mountains, but it is flat scary when it happens! BTW, the 3rd gen never had a trailer towing package available. The bigger front rotors came with the 16" wheel option.
As the 3rd gen vehicles get to around 60 - 70K miles, they seem to become prone to failure of the rear axle grease seals. This will soak the rear brake linings with gear lube, necessitating their replacement. The repair isn't a cheap one, and I've read many reports of the problem quickly recurring after it's repaired. Look for differential lube coating the inside of the rear wheels.
But that's it - the rest is all golden. I greatly enjoyed my '98 and currently drive an '03 Limited V8.
-Karl
This thing is a brick through the air. Anything above 65 and your mileage will suffer.
No other problems to report except the driver seat back was very painful after 3+ hours. The lumbar seems too low or something. My back was killing me.
Other than that, great truck.
But....when I went in and drove both, I knew I wanted the V8 without a doubt. Do I tow anything? No. Do I need the extra torque? No. Do I ever go off-road? No. Was it much more fun to drive? Definitely, yes. Did the V8 have more balls and it is a proven Toyota engine? Yes!
That was my thought process and how I ended up with the V8. To sum it up, I really don't know how you could choose between the two without driving them.
Aaron
<snip>
And do not forget the dreaded rotten egg (sulphur) smell. It tends to affect some V8, but not V6 engines
</snip>
-------------------
I have a 03 Ltd v6, build date was in July of 03. I do get the Sulphur smell about once every two weeks, but only when I am breaking the recommended usage of the back cargo window and I have driven a little more aggressive than I probably should.
> Did the V8 have more balls and it is a proven Toyota engine?
is the v6 a relatively newer engine, and has the v8 been around for a long time?
The V8 has been around for a few years (Land Cruiser, Tundra). The V6 is brand new in 03, and is currently only available in the 4runner.
Both engines are LEV certified. The v8 powered 4Runners are roughly 200lbs heavier than the v6 models, which contributes to the roughly 1mpg discrepancy between the two models.
The v6 is all Aluminum while the V8 is an iron block with alluminum headers. The V8 should be more reliable due to the material used in its construction, but both are Toyota quality engines and should last for the long run.
The V6 uses an electronic trottle(a Toyota First in SUVs) instead of a traditional cable trottle. This electronic set-up probably is lighter as well.
For those of you that own a V6, does it have much of a high-end rush? The V8 doesn't, it just pulls steadily to about 5000 RPM then upshifts. I'm wondering if the variable valve timing in the V6 might give it a bit more of a rush when at high engine RPM's. What's the redline on the V6? The V8 seems very tuned for low-end torque. You don't give up anything at higher RPM, but you don't gain anything either (like you do in my 30-valve Audi A4 2.8 quattro, where you get a big boost of power above about 4000 RPM). Perhaps just the wonder of having that low-end torque available when I wasn't used to that in a vehicle won me over to the V8 without having driven the V6. Of course, when I purchased, the V6's hadn't been out long.
Yes, the V8 is a proven engine and I like the always-engaged 4wd. Every car I've owned (with the exception of an '86 Tercel, which was part-time) has been full-time 4wd/AWD, and I haven't had any driveline wear issues with any of them. IMHO, I really don't think not being able to shift out of 4wd poses that much more risk of wear on the driveline over the life of the vehicle.
I imagine the 200lb difference in the engines is both due to the engine weight difference and the 5-speed auto in the V8 versus the 4-speed in the V6. However, I'd imagine the gearing with the 5-speed probably gives the V8 extra oomph and better acceleration overall, though, too. It would be interesting if these engines were paired with the same transmission.