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When we had both the '11 Elantra and '12 Civic parked side by side we slid both front seats all the way back as far as they would go to compare seat room. The Civic had about 1.5" more legroom than the Elantra in the back seat. Sitting in the back my knees just cleared the Elantra's front seat while I had a couple of inches to spare in the Civic. However, the Elantra had about 2" more room in the front seats. But the Civic's rear seats like it's front seats were more comfortable to sit in than the Elantra's. The front seat room in the Civic was fine I'd say for a 6' 6" driver while the Elantra could possibly be comfortable for a 6' 10" driver. I think the Civic got the balance just right for the average height range of drivers for both front and rear occupants. The new '12 Civic has more cabin room overall than the '11 model. This is substantiated by the new models interior cabin dimensions.
My only wish was that the LX and EX both had a better combination of cabin materials and a better overall dash. But interestingly, instrumentation design and erogonomics were better in the Civic than in the Elantra. But as far as first impressions go the Elantra wins. However, drive both for a while and try adjusting the controls while driving the Elantra it's not as easy to do as it is in the Civic which wins for perfect placement of everything. It may not look as pretty but it is sure functional. Controls are all at correct height, gauges are sweet and everything is simple to use. Not so for the Elantra, Hyandai has placed form over function in the Elantra's cabin. It's like they had an item check list and yes everything is there, it looks initially a nice design until you try using while driving. It's like they forgot the road test it. You will have to test both cars together or as closly as possible to see which car you like more. But you must road test both to find the Civic's hidden qualities. I've now read a few professional reviews and they're saying simlar things, that the '12 Civic is a better overall car than the Elantra.
IMO that is not a good way to test rear seat room. The only reason the Elantra has less rear seat room based on how you did the test is because its front seat moves back several inches farther than on the Civic!
I test rear seat room by adjusting the driver's seat so it is comfortable for me, then I sit in the left back seat. (My wife is shorter than I am.) That tells me how much USABLE rear seat room there is. Based on that test, the Elantra has more rear seat room than the Civic.
Can you please post the links to the professional reviews of the Civic you've seen? I haven't seen any yet. Thanks.
Below are a few professional reviews of the new Honda Civic 2012 lineup that points out some of the things I've been saying. They also list it's failings in terms of looks that seem to be every reviewers downer. The design grows on you I've found much like the 2008 Honda Accords design has over the past 4 years.
The first one is from Automobile Magazine that compares the Focus, Civic, and Elantra. They finish in that order too.
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1104_2012_honda_civic_meets_2011_hyu- - - - - - - - - - ndai_elantra_and_2012_ford_focus/index.html
Cars.com has a very good review of the 2012 Civic and it's list of new features
http://www.cars.com/honda/civic/2012/reviews/?revid=57087
Car and Driver
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q2/2012_honda_civic_si-first_drive_rev- - - - - - - - iew
Road and Track
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/impressions/2012-honda-civic
Business Week
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/apr2011/bw20110419_031505.htm
Motor Trend
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1104_2012_honda_civic_drive/index.htm- - - - - - l
Autoblog
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/20/2012-honda-civic-sedan-and-coupe-first-drive-- - - - - review/
Autoweek
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110420/CARREVIEWS/110429984
Popular Mechanics
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/drives/2012-honda-civic-test-drive
Ride quality also is up to par with the best in class Ford Focus and Mazda 3. Actually, the Civic can be driven just as fast and is a little more comfortable over the bumps and bad surfaces than the Focus. The suspension is softer but still provides ample control and grip. Some may complain about The electric steering, it's not as direct as the '11 model but I found it drove just as good ans was more composed over rough roads. On the freeway is was definitely way more relaxed to drive. Just drove straight and cornered with a new found ease. Didn't rail or wander like the '11 tended to want to do. But there is a little more body roll, but nothing bad or unnatural.
The sound system in the 2012 Civic EX is way better. There is a high fidelity to the sound. The Elantra's sounded flat. The 160w stereo was ample to provide clear highs and solid but not thumping bass.
Thanks for posting all the reviews. But in the Automobile Magazine comparo, I don't see where they score the Civic 2nd. I only see where they give their overall top pick, the Focus. It was probably the most useful review though... some of them seemed as if they didn't drive the car at all, or if so didn't say much about their experience.
I think the BusinessWeek review summed it up best:
The bottom line: Buying a Honda Civic used to be a no-brainer. These days it pays to comparison shop and do some test-drives before signing on the dotted line.
First the new car. Why did they not tweak the engine for at least 10-15 HP and TQ?
Where is the 6 speed auto that Ford and Chevy now have?
Why is the interior even more plastic-laden then previously?
Its a dud. I don't care what they say about better MPG, my 2003 when brand new could easily do high 30's to low 40's going 65-80MPH. How have they improved on this? The leg room between my 7th Gen and the 8th Gen is not even close, I have more.
While the manual on the 8th Gen is quicker then mine, the auto is not. Yet if should be given that is has 5 forward gears, just like my manual, and 20 more horsepower. Why the hell can't Honda engineer an auto or a manual that does not constantly leave you flat footed when you need the power most, merging on the highway, or passing on a two lane road. The gear splits need to be closer and lower geared on each until overdrive. Whats the point of having a 5 speed automatic that does not have much better splits, such as 30 in first, 50 in second, 80 in third etc., etc. This would give the car so much better power in the passing and merging scenario. Rather its now 36 in 1st, like 67 in 2nd, 100 in 3rd, etc. Same with the manual BTW. A bunch of moronic engineers.
Also, any of you who might have owned a 7th Gen, they suck. They are full of problems. Transmission(Auto and Manual), Exhaust Manifold Cracking, easily warped front brake rotors. I can say that it still beats the new cars hands down for the quality of cloth on the seats and the slick dash, at least until the carpet on the doors falls off from inferior bonding agent.
I really think you all should think real hard before going with a Honda now. I am not joking by saying that it feels like these guys have been a 21st century hangover, and have no clue how to get out of it.
The 8th Gen is a buggy mess. With all the new electronics, the thing gives false readings all over the place, on the OBD 2 indicator. I really think it won the car of the year in 2006 only because everybody else had inferior vehicles in that year.
As for me, I am considering the new Focus, Elentra, not any GM stuff though. If you want a good Honda, buy a 2000 or before, they really do last a long time I have heard.
MRT
Cheapening of the Civic's interior has been going on for several generations. But it's not just Honda doing it. Unfortunately for Honda, several competitors such as Chevy, Ford, Mazda, and Hyundai have stepped up their game interior-wise while Honda has been cutting corners.
I do not know. That is what insideline comparison found out. They still rated Civic Engine and suspension better. I do not think so Elantra engine is inferior. I guess, they just liked rev happy Civic engine better. But Elantra is ahead of Civic when it comes to interior and features for less price.
I've been reading some of the posts over on the Elantra forum and the owners aren't to happy with the 23-25 mpg in the city they have been getting in their 2011's. I would hope at some point Hyundai would put a direct-injection engine in the Elantra so those advertised mpg's were more obtainable.
I got over 33 mpg on a 2011 Elantra in mostly heavy traffic in Austin recently. YMMV. Some people have a much heavier foot than others.
I bought Civic 2012 Sedan, but i can only find the floormats for 2011 model, will it fit the 2012 Model, and what material is recommended in Seattle area, raining 9 months in a year. :confuse:
Thanks everybody!
If you got the DX, your best bet might be to get them direct from the dealer (they must be able to order some for you), or from a company that specializes in made-to-fit mats (good option if you want all-weather mats), or just get basic mats from your local discount store and trim-to-fit.
Think whatever you want. I'm retired and have no skin in the game.
I think if the sheet metal were measured for thickness they would probably be close to the same.
All modern cars have tinfoil for sheetmetal now. They do this to reduce weight and to insure the crumple zones work as they should.
Among them:
The cup holders lost the sliding cover, which I actually LOVE in my 2009. Now the cup holders are exposed and very not elegant.
Illuminated window switches are on the EX models only, but not on the LX (which have driver only, as on the 2009). In general, the EX has nicer trim inside, more chrome, etc.
Honda also did away with the chrome covering part on the shifter. It's now a black plastic instead, and makes it look more cheap.
The 2009 lacks in storage bins, and the 2 tiny bins on the left side of the steering wheel can not be closed, it is open and exposed. But on the 2012 they eliminated them all completely. No storage bins, cubbies, nothing! (the 2 bins are replaced with some stability control switches). And the lower bin at the bottom of the door is also smaller from the already small on the previous versions!
Kudos to Toyota and Honda that they manage to design the rear seat without the HUMP in the floor, so even the middle passenger can stretch his/her legs comfortably. Unlike most other manufacturers, which for some reason they are unable to figure out how to do away with the transmission hump. Even in larger sedans.
I have driven the car the first two weeks with the Econ button on and have been driving the past couple of weeks with it off. The terrain is the same I pretty much drive it back and forth to the office. I get exactly the same mpg either way.
When I drive in the Econ mode....it appears that the shift points are different when I am on the same route.
My MPG improved by about 2mpg by using the Econ mode for in city driving.
Or perhaps tilt your seat back one notch from your current setting?
You think it's "sad" that Honda would build and sell such a "bland, uncomfortable stripper" model?
Well....um...YOU bought this car! You knew EXACTLY what you were buying!
By the time you add A/C and a decent radio you'll be close to the price of an LX.
Any car stereo shop will be able to install a nice radio for you at a decent price.
As far as A/C? I know Honda used to sell and install A/C units for DX's and I would find it odd that they no longer do this. I would call a couple of other stores and ask.
Your last sentence confuses me. did you buy an EX coupe too?
What percentages are you doing? What is the 'factory tint' percentages?
:shades:
Hyundai don't have too high of a trade in value. Example....You will learn of the trade in value of a Hyundai Accent is 25% after 60 months.
When purchasing a 5-year-old vehicle, the consumer is generally looking at how well the vehicle has held up compared to others of the same age, and how reliable it has been. Unless the Civic is falling apart and breaking down at a rate greater than its competition, the CR initial rating - which was, after all, only downgraded on fit & finish, not safety or reliability - won't matter.
The rating may ding new vehicle sales, but the used consumer market is different. Who's to say that a 5 yr old Corolla, Elantra, etc., won't deteriorate to the point where the ride quality and finish are even with the Civics?
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I was looking to replace my Ford Five-Hundred 2005 model with a fuel efficient car. For two painstaking months, I checked all the cars in this class.
My heart was set on the new Elantra and I even rented one for 24h.
Consumer's report puts the Elantra well avove the civic. I wonder if these gays ever drove one? The civic drives like a dream and is extremely comfortable with regards to seating and road manners. The Elantra, was rough, could not handle road bumps/cracks of Montreal's roads. It was so uncomfortable to sit and overall wasn't as good as the civic. Ironically, I drove the Elantra to the Honda dealer for side-by-side comparison and immediately purchased the civic on the spot.
Please do yourself a favor, forget about what you read and make your own accessment by driving the new cars. I feel that many reviews are politically motivated and are biased. BTW, the Elantra was considderably louder inside that the civic, a complete opposite to what Consumer's report says.
One complaint that I do have over the first month of ownership is that the Firestone tires are sub-par for this car. When worn, I will replace with Michelins.
If the Civic is as good compared to the Elantra as you say it is, it is an exceptional small car. I drove a 2011 Elantra around Austin for a couple of days and found it to be a very smooth, quiet, and comfortable small sedan, with tons of room (especially in back for a small car). When I get closer to making my decision for my next car, I'll drive them back to back (along with others in the class).
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I gave up on CR years ago when they started being so subjective. They are no longer the CR of years past.
I went into my old store last month and drove a 2012 Civic. I thought it was quietier and that it rode better. I noticed none of the things CR didn't like.
However, a lot of people buy into everything CR says. They consider it gospel and no doubt, this will to some extent hurt Civic sales.
Honda can't be content to rest on their laurels. They have competition like never before and they better take heed.
As the 2012 Civic Si has essentially (ratios excluded) the same 6M as my Gen7 Accord, I am looking forward to a test drive.
Premium fuel is somewhat less than positive, 47 for the Si seems optimistic and C&D indicates about 3 car lengths differential in the Quartermile.
Regret CR has opted to poor mouth the new Civic. I have admired those big red dots for Honda products since (you get the idea).
ez
The car drives better than 2009 on Highway.
Anyway, the dealer called all its channels. Honda had not approved the addition of A/C on a DX model in July 2012. I needed a commuter car and the dealer only had 3 Civics and a lot of CRVs. The Civics included 2 DXs and a Civic Coupe EX. So, the dealer agreed to tear up the purchase contract on the DX and apply my down payment on the Coupe EX. Dealer's Sales Department kept a happy customer. Too bad their Service Department did their best to run off a customer....But, that's another post.
I'm surprised you didn't just buy an LX instead of jumping to an EX.
The Civic is still a very good car. It’s just that the competition is now just as good, or at least “almost” as good, and is much cheaper, and gives you so much more for your money.
It’s un-excusable for Honda to include Bluetooth in the top-of-the-line EX model only (which itself features only a striped down version of bluetooth, where the phonebook does not download to your vehicle); and heated mirrors are not even there, only if you choose EX PLUS leather. And so is the outside temperature gauge which is pretty standard across the board today in most competitors vehicles; and variable wiper settings, disk brakes, and so on..
I am not even asking the heated rear seats or much more advanced navigation system as in the Elantra, and I will not complain on the poor interior, both by design and quality, while the Chevy Cruze is much ahead in that regard, and even the new Focus is so much better (for quality I speak, the design of the Focus is too complicated and uncomfortable IMO). But Honda must lower the prices, and add more content to give you more for your money.
I have the 2009 Civic, and it’s the best steering I’ve ever had, and I’ve driven already many many cars. Why Honda changed (aka "improved"...) that excellent steering, which was praised everywhere, is beyond me.
The Civic has many changes for the worse in the 2012 model. Among them: No more sliding cover for the cup holders, which will now be always exposed. The 2009 was much better both in better looking and the ability to close the cover and keep stuff on top of it. They also removed the few scarce storage bins that was in the 2009 models. There is almost nowhere to put anything. What a shame.
The door pulls is also disappointing. I was hoping they will have something fully open, vertically aligned, similar to the Elantra, or the Honda CR-V. Nice, comfy door pull handle, which can be also be used while driving and your hands/fingers are in a very comfortable position.
Where most competitors offer, at least optional, a remote starter, Honda never offered anything of this kind of feature.
I think Honda got a "wake-up" call from Consumer Reports. And for those who say the only difference is because now it’s the "LX" model, sorry but that’s a very poor excuse! First of all, it can’t be true, and second, if it is true, then it’s still a shame that the LX model should be so poor, and rated lower than all competitors and be on the bottom of the list (with the exception of the Jetta).
It's a tough balance. A lot of the features that you mentioned are of little value to a lot of people and all of these things cost money.
It wouldn't take too many of these features to create a 30,000 dollar Civic!
Most people, when coming from other manufacturers to Honda, they're usually impressed of the excellent driving dynamics (or at least they "used to be"), but on the other hand disappointed of all the ("un-important") featured they're used to. Honda's way of feature content is absurd. The first feature is usually a Sunroof. Who the heck needs a sunroof rather than, say, heated mirrors which is pretty standard today and such a safety, useful feature? Or Bluetooth?
Honda can do it. They just need to realize that the market is changing, and play according to that. I'm not asking here for "special" features, like rear heated seats which is offered on the Hyundai Elantra; Or signal mirrors and other mostly useless stuff. But heated mirrors? Bluetooth? And even outside temperature gauge? Most people will cry about it when missing, and even Consumer Reports, which usually ignores features, keeps repeating that Honda is behind with todays newer standards.
I own now a Honda Civic which I love. It's the best driving car I've ever had. I want so much for Honda to succeed. Please Honda, do some research, send some surveys to your own customers, listen what they have to say, and do whatever you can to keep them as customers. Don't let others swallow you. Our satisfaction is your success!!
Right now we're about to start our search for a new vehicle and the wife won't even look at the new Civic as the competition has gotten that much better. It's a real shame since I really wanted her to consider one but even she feels the competition has gotten that much better. Honda seems to have lost it's way and it can't live on it's stellar reputation forever not with products like the Elantra and Focus/Cruze already in the lead & Honda now has to wait another 5 years just to play catch up!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I am one of those " you shouldn't use a cellphone when driving a car" type of people who find a 30.00 earpiece more than effective and I have no use for an outside temperature guage.
But, that's me. All of these "fluff" (to me) items only add to the price of the cars.
Otherwise, I totally agree with your post and I hope Honda is paying attention. No company can rest on it's laurels and expect loyality when emerging competition is aggressive.
I never thought Huyndai with the initial junk they came out with would ever survive. I could never see why anyone would buy a Korean car.
Well, thanks for the Korean goverment throwing tons of money into insuring their survival, not only have they survived but they have markedly improved and although I wouldn't buy one, they have captured a big share of the market.
Ford has taken HUGE strides and the people who want to buy American cars are giving them a second look.
Honda...are you reading these forums? I sure hope so!
Yep, the first time I saw a "new" 2012, I couldn't tell what they had changed until I looked real hard.
" Yesterday's hits won't win today's ballgames"