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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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nvbanker- I guess we'll agree to disagree. In my opinion, the Fords that merit accolades get them (Focus, Escape), and the new Mustang has gotten quite a buzz as well. The Expedition deserves to be panned, and it is, just like the laughably orchestrated Freestar (did they really think it'd move without 5 grand under the seats... guess not). Your sweeping statement that the mags rag on Ford was, as you said, based on one observation of a Navigator vs. Tahoe.
~alpha
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/FordFiveHundred/
http://www.car-data.com/xpage.preview/pre.template.asp?mfg=ford&a- mp;model=fivehundred
That said, the 6 speed is a "sealed for life" unit require a fluid change at 150k...
The CVT requires a fluid change at 60k. I'm sure that in 6 years, we'll start hearing from Peeps how the CVT is junk... when in reality the maintenance wasn't done.
Mark
My current ford is a 99 taurus se...bad transmission at 80K.
My father-in-law has a ford ranger (95?), bad transmission...replaced by dealership...one week later THAT transmission went bad, replaced again.
Also owned an escort (cheap car) and two others (forgot the model type...4 door built with Mazda...tracer?).
All had some kind of transmission problem and are no longer owned by us (except the taurus, which is sitting in the driveway collecting dust (can't afford a new transmission).
It's funny, my dodge avenger (hance the screen name) has been my most reliable car. Why ford had to build a transmission that needs fluid changes every other year is beyond me. My avenger needed a tranny fluid change at 60K, and my new suzuki XL-7 only needs to be inspected in the first 100K (and it's 4wd!).
Regarding the interior, looking at the pictures, the radio is straight out of the mustang (2005) and the redesigned f150. The wagon version of the 500 (freestyle) is easier to see the parts-bin items (A/C vents, radio, gauges, etc). Not that it's a bad thing, as it would be stupid for ford to remake items like gauges they can use in other vehicles.
Regarding the transmission choices, it's a hard decision. CVT's are new technology, and will need the bugs worked out. New 5 and 6 speed transmissions would be great, if they don't do what Nissan has done to save money...they reduced the fludid capacity of the auto trannys from 6 quarts to 2 (resulting in many transmission issues with 2004 vehicles. Maybe this is the reason for the recent Honda auto tranny problems as well.
GregC
I still like the design of the interior. In fact, I like the interior better than the exterior. You can see the volvo door pulls in the interior (people are already talking about it at swedespeed.com).
Getting back to my origional question of reliability, do you think this vehicle will have electrical problems that the s80 has had over the last couple years. Not sure if using the volvo chassis carried over any of the electrical system.
Also, thanks for the transmission update...if I consider the 500, i'll stay away from the cvt, as it will be a ford item.
GregC
http://www.pbs.org/mpt/motorweek/carofthemonth.shtml
I've noticed on the Mazda boards there have been complaints about the way they integrated radio controls into the centre stack. It makes it more difficult to replace the unit with an aftermarket model, you're stuck with what you can get from your Mazda dealer. I like the look of the Mazda centre stack, and had been considering a Mazda 6 hatchback. but I really like the more conservative style of the Five Hundred better, and the seting position is world better in the Ford, the Mazda has good seats and adequate legroom front and back, better than the new Accord in spite of the numbers, but it still sits too low for liking, a pain if you're getiing in and out of the car alot during the day.
I have no idea about the electrical system, I would imagine it's new to the Five Hundred/Montego/Freestyle as they're built in different palnts, use different engines, have different option, etc. I'm also not familiar with elictrical probems on the current S80.
As for the transmisions, I've never had any transmission problems, of a regular nature, on any Ford I've owned over the past 30 years not with manuals or automatics, not with FWD or RWD. I'm not familiar with any problems from friends or family. The biggest series of transmission problems with any Detroit vehicle I recall as in the 80s with some GM models. The problem there IIRC seemed to be that someone decided to uprate a compact car trans. for use in midsize cars in order to save some money. Bad move. I really speak to much about the CVT other than it is considerably different in design from the one GM used in the Vue, it uses the same chain design that Audi uses, and is also very similar to the model in the Nissan Murano, where they've apparently been quite reliable. Ford has also been building a lighter duty version of their CVT in Batavia Ohio for close to a year for use in the European Focus C-MAX with a turbodiesel, and will be expanding that to the new Focus next year, I haven't heard of any problems with those either.
My main concern about the CVT is as a stockholder; they may have capacity issues with it, it's a simpler design than a conventional automatic but needs special care in assembly, so they've been very slow to ramp up production. If they have to buy too many units from Aisin, or others it'll hurt them.
Oh well, live and learn. Now I'm so paranoid I don't believe Suzuki's manual when it says only to inspect the fluid for the first 100K.
Regarding the radio, I dont like the mazda 6 radio being integrated either. I was just hoping they would have made a false front to hide the unit behind the center stack. You could still replace the radio this way if you want, but give it an integrated look.
GregC
What bothers me, is the layout of the stereo controls. True, it's the same as the F-150, and similar to the new Freestar, Focus, and some other Ford models. They all share on design flaw: Small buttons (especially the AM/FM CD controls). I like large, clear labeled & illuminated controls. There are many good examples, but one I like very much is Toyota Solara's system (2004-2005). Simple, clean, large typefaces, is all I need.
http://autodeadline.com/detail?source=Toyota&mid=WKA200308313- - - - - 3460&mime=JPG
Or click here, and enlarge the last photo.
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2005/camrysolara/interior.html
Compared to this (enlarge to have a better view):
http://www.fordvehicles.com/fivehundred/photogallery.asp?name=INT- ERIOR&num=5
I personally didn't notice any shortage of legroom in the 2nd row of the Freestyle, and I'm over 6'2" and have 34" + inseam and wear size 12 boots. The specs do show the Freestyle as having 1.1" less legroom than the Five Hundred, but that's 40.2" v. 41.3", very generous anyway. I really didn't notice any difference in interior quality between the two vehicles, they are different in style, and the Freestyle is more "trucky" but hardly spartan. The heavily textured faux carbon fibre dash trim on the Freeestyle SE and SEL is notably better than that on the Five Hundred SE where it's flat,virtually identical to the stuff on the Mazda 6. Optioning is different too, auto climate control is only standard on the Freestyle Limited.
Drive both before putting in an order, the Freestyle is noticably heavier, and slower off the line, though not that slow,and costs quite a bit more. BTW the roof of the Freestyle is at least 6" higher than your Taurus, though still more convenient than most SUVS or minivans.
The same issue also has two stories about the 4.4 liter, 315HP Yamaha V8 to be used in the Volvo XC90 next year. If it fits in the XC90, it should also fit into the S80, Five Hundred, and all of the other vehicles built on that platform, including the rumored new Town Car.
A story released today by Ford claims the Five hundred will be in showrooms this month..
http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=18736
Did the story in Automotive news "Ford delays shipment of 3 new vehicles" provide any details on the introduction dates to showrooms?
Add isn't it odd that only a few years after the debut of their CVT, Audi has let it wither on only a few slow-selling models in favor of the DSG?
I wonder about durability problems.
Audi offers their Multitronic CVT on the A4, A6, And A8 inEurope, I wouldn't call that being left to wither. I'd recently read that they were hoping to increase production on the Multitronic. In theory the CVT should be cheaper than a conventional automatic because they have fewer moving parts, in practice this seems to be offset by higher tolerances and the need for very exacting assembly in clean-room conditions. As for DSGs they have advantage in higher performance applications, you woudn't want a CVT in an S4, but they're rather pricey. I don't know why the Multitronic can't be paired with the Quattro system, Nissan of course uses a CVT with AWD in its Murano.
Audi has different availability on certain models in certain countries. Maybe their market research has shown that their buyer's might not be as interested in such an item in their Audi here in the U.S.
Although, the only thing in common with the Ford CVT and Audi CVT is the chain.
In regards to the integrated look of the 500 radio (or lack thereof), I checked out Fords site on the 500, and with a black interior (and black dash trim/leather), the black radio and a/c controls stick out less. Unfortunately, I prefer creme or pebble colors (hate sitting on black leather sitting in the sun for 8 hours!).
The 500 is looking more and more appealing to me, even though I would prefer the freestyle's versitility (but don't like the exterior compared to the 500). The freestyle (or style-free, as most other auto forums are referring it as), it just too truck-like inside and out (compared to something like the magnum). I'll still have the reliability worries from owning past fords (my wife will never approve of this purchase - it's her taurus sitting in the driveway!).
GregC
The dealer locate tool indicates that a few dealers (like 3 out of the nearest 300 to my dealership) have 1 or 2 in stock.
Ford is just calling it Audiophile details on the sound systems are:
Standard Radio (SE)
AM/FM Stereo/Single-disc CD Player
80 watts of power
4-speaker base audio system
Scan for all tuner modes and CD
Mute for quick mute/un-mute of audio
Bass/treble
Fade/balance
10-minute operation with ignition turned off
Speed Compensate Volume (SCV) — compensates for changing ambient noise levels by adjusting the volume of the radio according to the vehicle's speed signal. Allows 7 volume adjustment levels. Adjustable though the menu
Autoset (AST) — automatically locates the 6 strongest AM or FM station signals
Station Memory Presets — 12 FM, 6 AM, 12 FM (AST), 6 AM (AST)
Radio Data System (RDS)
Compression — when enabled during CD mode, the audio dynamic range is compressed so quieter music is boosted and louder music is lowered to compensate for ambient noise level
Repeat — when enabled during CD mode, the audio system will play the selected track continuously until repeat is exited
Shuffle — plays tracks in random order
The SEL radio is upgraded as follows:
AM/FM Stereo/6-disc In-dash CD/MP3 Player
Includes features of AM/FM stereo/single-disc CD player plus:
Folder/track mode — when enabled, the audio system will play and seek through disc tracks with or without folder option (available with MP3 discs only)
The best radio on the Limited upgrades as follows:
Audiophile AM/FM Stereo/6-disc In-dash CD/MP3 Player.
Includes features of AM/FM stereo/6-disc in-dash CD/MP3 player plus:
8-speaker Audiophile audio system with additional external 2-channel 90-watt amplifier
Occupancy setting — allows for one of three vehicle acoustic settings to be chosen
It was Jacque Nasser's stupid idea to have a different radio for each line of vehicles. At least with the current radio. If you own 2 Fords, (not uncommon) You don't have to learn how to work 2 different radios.
As for the "small buttons" SEL and Limited have repeat audio controls for volume, station, and media on the steering wheel.
About the CVT, I was told at the ride and drive that the 6speed exists only to fill the gap left by the limited CVT production capacity
I thought the CVT drove much smoother than the 6speed especially when pushed.
Mark
A SEL with leather and safety package comes out to about $24,070. A Limited (which includes leather) and safety package comes out to $25,080.
So for an add'l $1010.00, you get an upgraded radio, 18" rims and a clock (I assume the leather upgrade in the seats includes the power adjustment - does it also include the seat memory feature?).
Now I can always upgrade the head unit and speakers. I would rather do without the 18" tires (I put on lots of miles - 18 inch shoes will break the bank, and they wear faster). And the clock is a nice touch - what are the chances of modding the SEL by swapping out the trim piece with one with the clock? I'm sure the SEL is wired for the clock light.
Does anyone think the extra grand is worth the tire size and radio upgrade? According to a post above the radio upgrade is an additional 90W amp...not much in terms of power to be called "upgraded".
Any thoughts?
GregC
So this channel can drive say 4 speakers (which are added to the base system system of 4). It would send 22.5w to each speaker.
This is a basic explaination.
GregC
It won't be as powerful as the Mach1000 system either.
I've been lucky the last few car buys and now with the new THX system on my LS where I haven't had to do anything to it. Ford has been improving their radio offerings lately.
The Alpine in my 99 Navigator was great. But, I am 50, and losing my extreme hearing range too, so this is something my son and I disagree upon. I agree with you as well, that the aftermarket head units are an abomination to me. What a way to mess up a great looking dash! Can you imagine one of those Sony equalizing, flipping over skinny units in my Navigator with that awesome dash?
For example, say your car has 6 1/2" in speakers in the front doors. Most of the time you can't just go out and replace them with any 6 1/2" speakers you happen to like -- many of the better speakers are thicker than what will fit in the factory bezels, which are usually molded into the door panels.
Crutchfield publishes data on popular cars and the speakers they sell, but it usually takes 6 to 12 months for a new car model to make it into their database.
There are some other differences listed on the standard equipment pages, but I think these are errors (and omissions) on the part of Edmunds.
(Actually you can get to that Help link from any page, including this one. But it's easier to accurately report the error if you are right there on the page with the problem.)
Mark
Also, priced out a fully loaded AWD limited...
2005 Five Hundred Limited
AWD
Base Vehicle: $27,845.00
Colors:
Dk Shadow Grey Met - Ext.
Pebble - Int.
Optional Features: $2,030.00
Destination: $650.00
Total MSRP: $30,525.00
OUCH! About twice the price of a Taurus! Granted, the Taurus is steeply discounted and no where near the features, but still. Many people will cross shop the two.
GregC
It's still a big difference going from $22K base for an SEL to 27K base for a limited. Not as much as I first figured, I stand corrected. But the $30K mark puts it in a new category cars like the maxima.
GregC