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So I disconnected the MAF/IAT sensor connector on my 2001 AWD RX300 while the engine was running. The engine died almost immediately and wouldn't restart. When I reconnected the MAF/IAT it started right back up but with an engine & VSC failure indication.
After about 4 drive cycles the indications went out.
So for any of you that are experiencing the extended delay/hesitation symptom if you want to try and see if VSC is somehow related.....
steering but this has not solved the problem and in the mean time my car horn has quite working. I took my car back to service yesterday. They have ordered a part for the horn and can't seem to find the steering problem. So once again I'm driving a rental from the dealer. I drove an Avalon (95) for 5 years then traded for the 2000 and drove it 5 years and have had this one since Aug. and only 9500 miles on it. I'm sick when I make that payment each month. My husband says to get rid of it even if I go with 2007 Avalon. Does anyone know if the 2007s are having the transmission problems? And also, any suggestions with my present car's problems? Thanks, mthomas1
Message 11643 from Avalon 2005+ Forum....
I've had my 2006 Ltd since 11/05 and have experienced consistent hesitancy or lag especially in stop & go traffic and merging onto freeways etc. It's been annoying me to no end. Discussed it with Toyota service during the 5000 mile service and told "normal characteristic" of the car. Drove another 06 Ltd on the lot and experienced the same. While "researching" this issue I found this forum about a month ago and have been reading several posts citing the same issue. It's had become apparent to me it was the drive-by-wire (DBW) technology and computer programming on this vehicle. An obvious design flaw or so I thought, until...
Two weeks ago while driving in HEAVY stop & go traffic I just happened to notice I was NOT experiencing any hesitancy, the car had become "uncharacteristic ally" VERY responsive. After about 2 miles of bumper-to-bumper stop & go traffic and trying to figure why my car had suddenly become a responsive powerhouse it hit me...my foot placement on the accelerator was different. Normally I toe between the brake and acclerator pedals but this time, for some strange reason I was moving my entire foot. The entire length of my foot was on the gas when I accelerated. I'd give the pedal an slight nudge and the car accelerated very smoothly, evenly, and without any hesitation. Couple days later I was again in heavy stop & go, and noticed hesitancy with acceleration and I recalled my foot position from the time before. I changed my foot position to full foot on the pedal and what do you know...COMPLETE resolution and car was again very responsive.
I know it sounds crazy, stupid, unbelievable, asinine, whatever...but since this discovery I can actually CAUSE my care to either hesitate in traffic or be very responsive to input on the accelerator simply by altering the position of my foot. I've since made a conscious effort to alter my driving habit (full foot on instead of toeing) and haven't had one episode of hesitancy, lag, or unresponsivness since. I've also noticed increased MPG during my 70/30 highway/city drive week. Have gone from 24 MPG to 29MPG this past week and a half.
also you can ask your dealership if there is a TSB which was issued to improve shift quality. i can't put my hands on it, but I think it was documented in one of the hesitation forums.
good luck.
abfisch
I spent 25 years as an ASE master certified mechanic and my experience tells me that I was both a victim of the standard manipulative denial and precedent aversion of the dreaded "lemon law".
The dealer documented repaires on the door noise on the first two visits, then documented "normal condition" on the third visit. I explained my dissatisfaction and was told to direct my issues to Toyota. First of all, the dealership knew of the transmission problem before selling the vehicle, and I suggested they refund the purchase as any other seller of a commodity would. I plan on speaking with the owner and or GM before further aggressive measures that would negatively effect the dealership.
If it's broken...and they know its broken...then the dealership should back up the customer rather than the manufacturer.
I sympathize about your "normal" psycho transmission. Mine has the same "normal" affliction which is driving me insane. It went thru a particularly bad time this weekend - the transmission went completely mad. It was changing gears all the time - even when running at a constant speed on a level road, hunting for the next gear, revving and slipping and sliding and banging as it engaged.
I disconnected the battery for 15 minutes so the transmission ECU would "forget" it's "intelligent" (yeah, right) adaptive shift pattern and reset to factory default. The transmission is now better but it will never be "normal". If you decide to do this, be aware that after the battery is disconnected, the front windows, moonroof, and compass need to be reset in order to work properly, and you lose all your preset radio channels. The reset procedures are all described in the owners manual - in different places.
Regarding your driver door noise - is it a "chattering" sound, not quite a rattle or squeak but something in-between? Does it go away when you pull the door toward you?If so, I think I may have a fix for you.
It may be the looped lock striker that is out of adjustment. When the door closes and latches, the striker is positioned too far outwards allowing the door to move as the body flexes which causes the rubber door seals to rub against each other causing the noise.
I had this problem on the driver's door of my 2002 Avalon and the rear left door of my 2005 Avalon.
The striker loop is secured to the inside of the door aperture by two "Torx" screws, so you need to get a set of Torx screwdrivers or sockets from Home Depot or Lowes.
Standing outside the car with the door open, loosen the Torx screws almost completely, push the striker toward the inside of the car, and hold the striker in place while tightening the Torx screws again.
This should take care of the problem.
You'll need the Torx wrenches again when your moonroof starts to rattle, so they will be a good investment.
The transmissions in Honda and Nissan are far superior.
I find that the transmission becomes progressively confused the more it "learns" and "adapts", and the only way to get it reasonably driveable again after it has "learned" itself into total confusion, is to smack it over the head by disconnecting the battery.
The Toyota acronym ECT-I really means Exceptionally Confused Transmission designed by Idiots.
This transmission should not have passed alpha-test in the engineering lab, let alone be in mass production.
abfisch
Do you really think they are going to give you back your money? Sue them and maybe you will back some of your money.
I sued Acura over a similar problem and the lemon law is not as customer frendly as you might think. I ended up having to settle out of court for very little money.
This suggests to me possibly there is too much mechanical compliance in the pedal and with poor foot placement, applying some amount of force doesn't result in a change of pedal position being detected by the sensor attached to the mechanical assembly.
I suspect, if that is the case, the only true solution would be for them to change the part out completely, i.e. perhaps go with another vendor.
abfisch
I am currently writing a letter to the local and national consumer related reporters and also to be handed out to the public close to were the dealer is located(with no reference to the dealership name). So far I am up to 8 pages and have plenty more to say. I have been careful to avoid any statements that may place me libel in any way, and I will have my attorney look it over first.
I spent 25 years as a mechanic and was ASE Master Certified for many of those years. I explained that any other cars with a transmission that races the engine then jerks would be unfit to hand back to a customer, but it seems to be OK if the symptoms only occur to some customers. Those customers are told to “live with it! Toyota will let you know if a fix becomes available”. When I called Toyota’s 1-800 number, I was told that I need to change the way I drive in order for the transmission to work effectively. I have driven over half a million miles on three Continents and with only one fender bender. I think Toyota needs to rethink how their customers should be treated and start showing a little respect.
NOW A NOTE OF CAUTION!! IF THE SERVICE DEPARTMENT ATTEMPTS REPAIRS ON YOUR VEHICLE, THEN CALLS THE “DSPM”, THEN BEWARE, YOUR VOICE IS GONE REGARDING THE ISSUE. TOYOTA TAKES THEIR WORD AS FINAL WITH ABSOLUTALLY NO RECOURSE TO YOU OTHER THAN LOCAL LEGAL ACTION.
I experienced this just a few days ago. The Toyota representative would not listen to the fact that my door still rattles on bumps, he said the DSPM stated normal at this time and the issue is closed.
The most reasonable explanation to my situation is avoidance of the dreaded “LEMON LAW”. When I worked at dealerships, I would see the Assistant Service Manager creatively document work orders that are headed for Lemon Law territory. At the third repair, the work order would show a completely different part failure or symptom so the repair would not show 3 or 4 attempts at the same problem.
Now if I was to take my car back to the dealer for the door noise, the repair would be documented as “repair 1” because it obviously could not be the previous issue because it did not exist at the time the DSM inspected the car. There is more to this story but I cannot go there without more evidence. Several contradictory statements were made by 3 individuals, but not enough to pursue as fact.
All I wanted was my car fixed; now I want out of the car. By this I mean out of the dealership!! I do not trust them and I fear taking my car back to the service department. The only way out is if the dealership makes money. Apparently they have not heard of the statement “The cost of doing business”, which can make or break a company.
CAVEAT EMPTOR!!
I am sorry and appreciate everything you stated above. I too had similar problems and I too, could not fit into many cars because of my size frame. 74" and 225lbs, just big. The Avalon was it. Believe it or not, I went through 6 different automotive places, two of them dealerships and they told me everything from some of them come this way to when the part finally goes and it is replaced you will know it. Sweet!!!!!!!!!!! Luckily for me, I found a very thorough mechanic, I am in the Army, and he took about both front axles, at my expense, replaced them, and whatdoyou know, the problem was fixed. I had a defective axle/inner not outer CV joint which was causing the car to vibrate excessively at high speeds. Painful. They had me jumping through hoops, with wheels, tires rotors, alignment, etc. until they thought I gave up. In the end, it cost me, as I had to pay the mechanic to fix it right, but it cost them more. Cause I tell this story whenever I can and will never buy another Toyota again, even though I enjoy my Avalon now, 81K, and plan to keep it well past 200K. I bought an 04 BMW 325ci from another soldier which I use during the nice months now, keeping the Avalon for winter and to pull the trailer. But...Toyota has changed. Buyer beware.
If you have to work for a living, try to sell it locally or take the hit and get outta it. Try the Azera after the 1st model year or buy vehicle. Stay away from all the electronic gizmos. One lady I worked with said he LCD screen went in her Accord, could not use the HVAC controls, radio or clock and the dealership gave her a hard time. Imagine that.
abfisch
I plan on personally handing the GM my documents next week and see if he would like to drive my car around the block and tell me the noise is normal. If he will not see me, the documents will be mailed to him and I’ll have to add that conversation to the report.
I would also like the some help with the names of some consumer advocate reporters that might be able to use my information as part of a future article.
Thanx, Doxon
Bob
I can understand their feelings, but a small number of complaints aren't representative of the vast majority of positive owner experiences which we don't hear about.
If you have concerns about any of the issues discussed in these forums, a thorough test drive of your model of choice is the best way to address these concerns.
they all play.
I have finally gotten my dealer to agree to dismantle my entire steering column, after a great amount of pushing and complaining.
If anyone has any information about this, or can tell me more, please e-mail me at avkin@prtc.net.
Thanks!
STEERING COLUMN NOISE
Models:
’05 – ’06 Avalon
Technical Service
BULLETIN
March 14, 2006
Some 2005 – 2006 model year Avalon vehicle customers may complain of a ticking noise
from the steering wheel while driving slowly and turning left or right. The assembly
process has been improved to the steering column assembly.
Follow the repair procedure provided in this TSB to replace the steering column assembly
and correct the noise.
Steering Column Assembly
�� 2005 – 2006 model year Avalon vehicles produced BEFORE the Production Change
Effective VIN shown below.
MODEL PRODUCTION CHANGE EFFECTIVE VIN
Avalon 4T1BK36B16U099714
OP CODE DESCRIPTION TIME OFP T1 T2
442051 R & R Steering Column Assembly 1.3 45250–##### 9A 40
Applicable Warranty*:
This repair is covered under the Toyota Comprehensive Warranty. This warranty is in
effect for 36 months or 36,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle’s
in-service date.
* Warranty application is limited to correction of a problem based upon a customer’s specific complaint.
STEERING
Introduction
Applicable
Vehicles
Production
Change
Information
Warranty
Information
STEERING COLUMN NOISE – ST002-06 March 14, 2006
Page 2 of 2
MODEL PREVIOUS PART NUMBER CURRENT PART NUMBER PART NAME QTY
Avalon XL
& XLS
45250–AC021 Same Column Assembly,
Steering
1
Avalon
Limited
45250–AC011 Same Column Assembly,
Steering
1
1. Confirm the customer complaint by driving the vehicle slowly and turning the steering
wheel left or right.
2. If a tick noise can be heard or felt from the steering wheel when turning left or right,
replace the steering column assembly.
3. To replace the steering column assembly, refer to the Technical Information System
(TIS), 2005 or 2006 model year Avalon Repair Manual: Steering Column: Steering
That is the chip on your ignition key communicating with the vehicles immobilizer system.
Take note that owners of the new AWD Lexus GS series seem to be reporting the same engine/transaxle hesitation/delay symptom as has existed in the ES and Camry since the 2002 model year.
The 3.5 2GR engine has not had any documented issues from a reliability standpoint and is actually the best part of the whole car. It is, by nature, slightly noisier than the old belt driven OHC 3.0 and 3.3 engines it replaced. The clicking noise you hear at idle is actually the direct feul injection. In slightly modified forms this engine is now in not only Avs, Camrys and RAVs but now about every Lexus model.
The Camry transmission problems are in fact a manufacturing defect (snap ring) and apparently effected just a few hundred that had Japan assembled trannies. Haven't heard anything about any transmission programming issues though, so the behavior may be better in the 07 Av.
Whether these 'problems' effect sales remains to be seen -things like this sure didn't hurt Honda very much a couple of years ago after a bout of tranny failures (overheating) in Accord V6s and TLs.
Have had my Av for well over a year now (28k) and think it is the best car I've ever owned - but maybe that's just me?
Yep, and so does everybody else. And so do drivers of many, many other cars on the road that are afflicted with this DBW stuff. Would imagine that the VW, Ford, and MB dealers will give you the same 'it is working normally' BS - except that is not BS. Not to excuse Toyota for a substandard software implementation, but something that may not be fixable because it is not a mechanical problem. A few mfgrs. (Honda/Nissan come to mind) seem to do a bit better tuning these drivability issues out of DBW. Sounds contrite - but in mnay ways, the price of technology and the price of progress.
Have found that a more gradual acceleration technique from lower speeds effectively stops the 'hesitation'. Driving the car 'all-on or all-off' confuses the silly computer and 'creates' the hesitation as it trys to 'adapt' to that driving style.
The problem is NOT due to the use of DBW.
I can assure you that the DBW system in my 2001 Porsche C4 works perfectly well, as I suspect all DBW systems coupled with manual transmissions wherein the driver is reponsible for current, or next gear slection, and appropreate application, use of, the clutch pedal.
The problem arises when the engine/transaxle firmware must take on the responsibility of "guessing" what you, as the driver, will next do.
Do you intend, will you, come to a full stop, or will you begin to accelerate before coming to a full stop. Regretably Toyota?lexus' firmware assumes you will come to a full stop.
Put the clutch pedal back in, non-operative, and the firmware will get it right every time.
Think about it, with the clutch pedal in you can be in any gear you wish in preparation....
This of course, is now of only forensic interest to me, but I think the transmission is only partly the issue. In my ex-Avalon, when the accelerator was depressed even with the transmission in Park or Neutral, there was a delay in engine response. In some circumstances. this combined with the transmission hesitation could cause close to a 2 second delay between throttle input and vehicle response. I experimented with the throttle position, but the DBW system seemed to "relearn" the gas pedal "home" position, compensate and reintroduce the lag. I had attributed this to the DBW system.
I have found the Honda and Nissan systems to be much "tighter" in their responses and they don't feel any different than a conventional system. I am extremely curious as to why Toyota would continue to propagate this, even if it affects, as they claim, only a small percentage of vehicles.
Perhaps the complex "adaptive" and anticipatory multi-map logic employed by Toyota is just not the right solution. It seems that a fast-responding reactive system is better in real life situations, and this is easily achievable with the speed of modern processes.
One more thing, did a NOVA really get Apollo 11 to the moon?