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but that still doesn't solve the Chevy/GMC 1500 series garbage trannies.. I guess that's why Japan still beats out US and European vehicles in top quality.. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4482167/
we used to buy Japanese.. Toyota and Mazda back in the 70's and 80's.. because of American carmakers poor quality.. they started to 'come back' but after a number of Fords( 2 Explorers and 1 Expedition) and the last three Chevy Suburbans( a 99 and 2 '01's) GM at least has a long way to go to catchup in my opinion..
they all make a bundle on these SUV's.. then over the past three years they jack up their prices and snow people by giving $3K rebates... and cry about it... maybe if they got it right and paid attention to making a quality product they wouldn't lose the customer base to the Japanese..
I'd rather buy American, but I am disappointed..
As for Japanese suppliers building more reliable cars, that is a well known fact and something that American manufacturer's need to step up to now that the competition is encroaching into the full size SUV/Truck market. Remember all of the crappy domestic cars from the 80's (you will see none of these at a car show except for a few exceptions)? We can thank the Japanese for forcing quality practices on the American market to the point where we have 100k miles between major services whereas before 100k was considered the lifetime of a car. I like to support the American worker, but 'buying domestic' is getting harder to define. Nissan Titan, Toyota Tundra, and BMW X5 are built in the U.S. employing American suppliers and manufacturing labor. The Chevy Tahoe is built in Mexico, Daimler owns Chrysler, many parts are made in Canada; what the heck constitutes a domestic car anymore? I could care less about whether the fat cats are getting richer in Tokyo or Detroit or Munich. I can buy stock in either company making them 'owned' by this American
we had planned to buy one of our 'burbans at the end of their leases for me to use 'knocking around with'... use around town and head on up to the Outer Banks surfishing off the beach, etc... and get my wife a new SUV.... the way it looks they can have them both back... plus it also gives us the option of not keeping a gas guzzling behemoth if gas prices skyrocket like they are currently..but I might add, gas prices not really entering into our new car buying as a major factor though..convenience with a big truck rulz...we're just gonna give them back to Chevy and let them 'take the hit' on their values.. both have 43K miles on them right now.. my Z71 has 4.10 gears so that's gotta go...don't need the gearing...
as far as extended warranties.. we don't keep our trucks long enuff to benefit fully from them... we obviously 'take a chance' between the end of the regular warranty at 36K miles until we get rid of them at about 45-48K miles.. and with Chevy's 'pull ahead' program ..which is their early lease terminations w/o penalties as long as one buys/leases another GM product.. just walk away from it... they usually come up like they are now from Chevy .. we take the gamble w/o getting an extended warranty that might cost $1500-2K upfront..
I'm just going with what I've seen.. not some rumor..or hearsay... now for one thing.. how many people who own cars and trucks get their tranny fluid changed at 30K miles.. sounds good but in the real world it just doesn't happen.. maybe 1%.. probably less...
with that said, I'm talking about tranny problems from small to big in the first 15-20K miles.. not even close to requiring a fluid change...
I know what happened at low mileage.. .. and on occasion still happens to both our 'burbans... at least two times each where I had to coast over to the side of the road after trying to move from a standing start from a traffic light or in a parking lot... put it in drive... step on the gas.. slippage.. as in not moving forward.. then it grabs a bit... then I coast... stop.. take it out of gear... shut it off then start up again.. all is ok..NOT a good feeling if that's not screwed up I guess I can agree with you then... whether that's the tranny..or the computer Chevy doesn't know or doesn't want to know.. plenty of others have had the same problems.. no fix that we've heard of.. I'll add to that 'hard shifting ' from 1-2 and 2-3 gears on the upshifts on both trucks..they were so-called re-programmed.. still the same.. I don't drive hard.. no fast gunning starts.. we do drive a lot of highway driving on interstates as we take a number of trips since retiring ..
Chevy promotes towing with the 1500 up to a stated # limit in their ads..... however a good dealer will suggest going up to a 2500 for towing a great deal or long distances.. I would NOT want to tow with either of these 1500'burbans reliability-wise
the only thing the American carmakers have done is surpass European carmakers in quality.. but for most that wasn't very difficult as European cars have been headaches forever and forever.. even M-B has fallen off the wagon.. BMW's have always been a nightmare for service and maintenance and more headaches.. I won't even begin to mention the Jag-U-ar of old.. status symbols--yes.. quality questionable..
the Japanese have maintained their quality commitment over a long time now... the two best cars that my wife.. and for that matter that I've.. ever owned for quality build were back to back new '92 and '95 Infiniti Q45's.. she never had one single problem with either car...not a hiccup.. great cars..
As for the 2500 I know of a few people that have gone through their trannies in the 2000 year models. All tow heavy too. One went thru 2 before getting rid of it. Mine is a 96 and so far (knock on wood) it's been great. Very smooth.
While it's true you'll see mostly large domestic trucks and SUV's at the boat ramp there's a good reason for it. The foreign makes don't offer anything that can tow in excess of 10,000 lbs. Nissan comes close now at 9100lbs but think that's tops. So if you tow heavy you have no choice but to buy domestic. Although I wouldn't have a problem buying domestic if it was a diesel either.
For years Honda had many tranny headaches with the Odyssey minivan, their accord tranny just couldn't handle the bigger load. Even the redesign was problematic. They currently have a 5spd auto that appears to be better but its pretty early to tell, not many out there with more that 50K mi.
Dodge full size trucks with auto trannies have been a vehicle to avoid for years, esp. if towing. Ford full size trucks have been only slightly better than the Dodges with regards to the auto tranny.
There are really 2 things that hurt the life of an auto tranny, #1 is heat!!!, the hotter the tranny runs the shorter it will live, and heavy loads and towing build heat in the tranny rapidly. #2 is forcing the shifts into the high rpm range under heavy load (ie with your foot on the floor), either under hard acceleration or when towing.
As another poster said GM has actually produced some of the best auto trannies made, the problem is with the way they are used.
There is a very good reason that Semi's use manual trannies RELIABILITY when towing.
About the only auto tranny that might be worthwhile for towing is the Allison in the GM full size trucks. It appears to be beefy enough to handle the loads, but it still took GM about a year to get the electronics right to make it work like it is supposed to.
While many will argue that the vehicle should be able to tow to its rating without trouble, it will still be overall more trouble-free with an additional cooler to reduce heat. I purchase, rather than lease, & have always added the largest additional cooler I could fit behind the grille. I plan ahead for keeping the vehicle for years, and 100's of thousands of miles, not just keep it for 3-years. I also never tow in over-drive. I also monitor the transmission temperature, and never see temps over 200 degrees F, even when towing.
I have towed a 7000 lb travel trailer, a 4000 lb boat, for years with various 1/2 GMC Suburbans & Yukon XL's without problems. With planning, prevention, & not drag racing from every light, or trying to climb every mountain as if no trailer was in tow, I may have been lucky, but have not had a tranny failure.
Just my 2 cents. Dave
I have a 2000 Suburban LT with noisy door hinges. All four doors make kind of a squeak or a creak sound when opening and closing. They make these noises when entering the 1/2 open and full open positions.
The rear doors also make a light scraping type sound when opening.
I have tried spraying WD40 on the hinges with no luck. The noises seem to be coming from within the doors where the middle hinge enters it.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Bo
GM products seem to be good for 100k miles (if lucky) then watch out. Mine is at 136k now and am spending about 3k dollars/year to keep it running the past two. Love the engine though but really think it's time for something new.
here's the recommended maintenance for the transmission on our Suburbans.. goes for the Tahoe also..same-same book..
you will note that the tranny fluid and filter does NOT require it be changed at 30K miles .. at 50K ONLY if used heavily under certain conditions and for ALL to be changed at 100K miles.. so maintenance except for checking for leaks/fluid levels has nothing to do with their trannies being sub-standard.. let's keep and put the blame on the manufacturer NOT the consumer.. that is the very first mention of any tranny maintenance in their schedule..
here's a page from the '01 Subn/Tahoe book
http://greengrouper.com/ggserver/SubnMaintenance.jpeg
if a mfgr says a truck can tow a certain poundage.. then it should.. that doesn't mean it can tow it and then break down..
I won't even get back into the serious problem with Subn front ends with excessive inside tire wear..
Well, for how much a Q45 goes for and the fact that it's made by a luxury nameplate (Infiniti)--one should expect very few problems with such a vehicle. What I'm getting at with this is that you are clearly comparing apples and oranges by comparing a luxury make (Infiniti)--for which a high expectation of quality/reliability would and should be expected--with a non-luxury one (Chevy/GMC).
for $45K and up right now nothing should go wrong .. in theory and a make believe world... with a Suburban-Tahoe -Denali- or the Yukon twins.. the only thing different for me is that it's hard to carry a load of fishing gear in a 'Q' compared to what you can get into a 'burban.. dollars is dollars.. space is not..
now why couldn't Ford come out with their extended Expedition this year instead of in 2006( late 2005) giving the Excursion a stay of execution until 2005 according to Motor trend.. it sure doesn't look like Toyota or Nissan will ever come out with a Suburban beater of that size..oh well.. more in the make believe world I guess..
What is an American car?
Steve, Host
GM have a TBS on it and replaced it on newer model with plastic coated straps.
I had the same problem with my 2001 and had it done under warranty, noise is gone.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4482167/
I read other posts about WD40 not being the best lubricant so I tried some spray lithium grease like you suggested. Unfortunately with no luck.
I do think I found the TSB for this problem:
Component Description:
60. STRUCTURE:BODY:DOOR:HINGE AND ATTACHMENTS NHTSA Number: 259327
Bulletin Number: 010864015
Bulletin Date: OCT 2001
Vehicle: 2000 Chevrolet Suburban
Summary:
SUBJECT REGARDING FRONT AND REAR SIDE DOOR ACCESS DOOR NOISE (REPLACE DOOR CHECK LINK). *JG
Does anyone know how I can get the details for this repair?
Thanks for the input,
Bo
I think one thing we can both agree on as far as current pricing for full-size GM SUVs--for as much as they go for these days, you'd think that you would get more for your money...
The Japanese automakers best be looking over their shoulders.
Steve, Host
That is the jist of the CR article, American quality has improved significantly.
As far as tranny reliabilty goes, you state, "if a mfgr says a truck can tow a certain poundage.. then it should.. that doesn't mean it can tow it and then break down.."
There are a couple of simple facts you are ignoring, first the tranny failures aren't occuring the first time you tow, they occur after tens of thousands miles.
Second, as another poster pointed out, the maintenance schedule are guidelines, and they provide projections based on normal use. If you are under heavy use ie. towing you should follow a heavy use maintenance schedule and use some common sense (like checking the tranny fluid periodically for color, odor, etc. If the fluid shows signs of breakdown change it.)
Another thing everyone wants to forget, and I pointed out in a previous post, all automakers have models that have auto trannys with early reported failures.
I gave the example of the Honda Odyssey as one that is fairly well known, I am fairly confident in saying that the majority of Odyssey owners don't use their vans as tow vehicles.
Ask Ford Explorer owners how they feel about their auto tranny. etc. etc.
You don't have to tow to heat up a vehicle. If you live in the south (Ie Houston in the summer) and you get stuck in stop and go traffic your engine and tranny are going to be running very warm, do this a lot and you are going to see tranny probs.
I joined AllDataDIY.com to get the detailed info on the "Door squeak" TSB. I forked out my $25 and went searching for the the specific data I needed.
Well guess what I found - I found out that the TSB listed by Edmunds isn't accurate. It isn't a TSB for my C1500 LT Sub but rather for the C2500, the Avalanche and others. This ticks me off because to get another report, I have to spend another $15 for an additional vehicle.
After this episode, I called my local chevy dealer to find out that if I take it to them, it will cost about $200 per door for them to fix it :-(
Maybe the $15 doesn't sound so bad now.
Bo
The NHTSA is another option - sometimes they have the full TSBs:
link
Please use the Contact us form for errors on this site. Thanks!
Steve, Host
as far as what I stated.. I don't tow.. nada.. as in zippo.. so there's no excessive load on the tranny.. we 'baby' our vehicles.. the trannies still stink in my opinion.. and they have a tow package as do most other trucks including Tahoes and Suburbans that do tow..w/ tranny cooler etc..
so why should they have so many problems even if towing.. you sound like the Chevy/GM service managers.. " do you tow??".. is usually the first question.. why is that... I don't have a sports car .. it's a truck supposedly made for towing.. some up to 8K #'s.. or better.. if you're not supposed to tow with it and the trannies can't handle it, let the consumer know before he shells out $40K for it so he can go to the 'other guy' and buy a real truck
and you're still missing the point..they shouldn't 'stink' on a $40K+ truck..especially with today's so called 'better-made' vehicles.. no excuse for it..none whatsoever.. they should purrrrrrrrr...
I can tell you I know people who have had Chevy/GMC tranny troubles as far back as the old larger sized 2 dr Blazers in the early 80's.. same stuff is still going on with the 1/2 tons..
my question to Chevy/GMC is .. why won't they put the HD type tranny in all their Suburban trucks 1500 and 2500 series not only the 2500... I guess that's in keeping with the same reason they won't put 'LT' tires on the 1500 series and use 'P' ( passenger car) tires instead.. they don't belong on a truck.. so it's a 3/4 ton or you're out of luck ... oh well
As for my trannie in a 2500 96, it's smooth. Under normal acceleration you don't even feel it shift. Thank god because everything else in it has already been replaced! Including the engine which is getting pulled in another week.
Doesn't the survey say "initial quality"? I'd like to see how it stacks up after 100k miles. How many of you Sub owners have had to replace the fuel pump after 100k miles? Mine went out at 96k. How about your a/c compressor? Mine at 120k. Water pump? 120k. Radiator? 133k. Fan clutch? 134k. Hydroboost? 135k. IM gasket? Which time? Now it's the head gasket so I'm just going to put a new engine in against my wifes advice. Another problem after the new engine goes in and I'm toast. BTW I read another Sub site and many of my problems are common with other burb owners. I'm sick of the problems but I really like my Sub. Only thing I'd get to replace it would be an Armada but that seems to have issues too.
early last year,the fuel pump on my wife's 'burban( we have two '01 burbans) went out while we were driving down Rt 31, a 6 lane 60 mph hwy between N. Myrtle Beach and Myrtle one day not too far from the house.. somewhere under 36K miles were on it..
I checked the fuse.. not the problem.. when I called our dealer's svc mgr from the road, he knew right away what it was... evidently it's another one of those 'regular' occurrences for Chevy.....bad fuel pump... I was driving... not nice when all of a sudden the truck stalls and you have to coast over to the right shoulder from the center lane...had AAA tow it to the dealer.. they were there in less than a half hour.. when I first tried to get Chevy's onroad service, they said their computers were 'down' and they would call me back on my cell.. I'm still waiting...AAA to the rescue.. it was repaired under warranty but still it 'ticked' me off...
.. and I will still not mention .. cause I have so many times previously on these boards.. about the bad front ends that Chevy has on these SUV's with excessive inner tread tire wear...
Chevy sure does make it difficult to stay with them quality-wise as both our leases are ending in the next couple of months.. for me at least I want 'my big truck'.. and no one else makes one... I'd get an Excursion.. butt.. no, not for it's bad gas mileage .. it's that hideous rear door setup with three openings I just couldn't live with... had the cargo barn doors on my old '99 burban.. I'll stick with the liftgate these days..
I also noticed the change on the tether for the fuel cap, it is so short now that you cannot hang it on the little tab on the fuel door. I spoke wit an engineer at GM who said this was a result of a change to making the entire fuel system ethanol compatible and that they are aware of this short tether. He said they will redesign the mold for the fuel cap and correct this in the next couple of months.
stakeout "Dodge Durango" Mar 16, 2004 8:26pm
anyway... with the pull-ahead program( early GMAC lease termination--no penalties just walk away like I did with my '99 Subn) ...now going on, I turned in my '01 Z71 'burban..
and guess what I have coming in on 3/26.. a loaded-up '04 ...ta-da... Suburban... just couldn't tear myself away from the 'big guy'.. got an LT 1500 white one ... 4x4 ... Stabilitrak package.. Sun Sound etc package with DVD and Sunroof.. minus 2000 for the packages... pretty well loaded at $48700 MSRP.. got tired of the noisy tires on the Z71... got it at invoice less GM suppliers discount that the local dealer was offering as technically it came out of his stock.. also minus rebates..I did another 36 mo. lease so it was less than the 'buy' rebates... they also were running a sign and drive on the lease thru GMAC so the first payment was theirs to pick up..
right now we're down to one truck.. my wife's '01 Suburban LT 4x4.. and that may be outta here next week.. she wants a change.. looking at the Trailblazer 4x4 LT.. it's her truck .. so it's her choice.. who knows how long it will take her to choose interior colors though.. it'll be any exterior color for her as long as it's Black that's a 'given'..
here's the sticker .. the actual vehicle.. mine.. was 'taken down' from the dealer's site after I bought it.. this is the same one but in Silver that they are getting in also...
http://www.chevrolet.com/ws/nvlWindowSticker.cv?BAC=113988.0&- - makeId=001&year=2004&pvc=194&VIN=1GNFK16Z04J240902&am- p;am- p;dealerName=OCEAN%20CITY%20CHEVROLET&dealerAddress=2366%20OC- - EAN%20HWY%20W,%20SHALLOTTE,%20NC,%2028459-&dealerPhoneNumber=- - (910)%20754-7117&make=Chevrolet&model=Suburban&msrpPr- - ice=48,700.00&interiorColor=Leather%20Interior%20Trim,%20Tan&- amp;- amp;exteriorColor=Silver%20Birch%20Metallic%20Exterior%20Color&am- p;am- p;style=4WD,%201500
bottom line.. no 'Hem-meeeeee'.. that kid is great in that commercial though !
The service manager calls with the following recommendations:
1. flush brake fluid
2. flush power steering fluid
3. flush transfer case fluid
4. flush transmission fluid
5. flush fuel distribution system
6. change PCV
The total for all these flushes is almost $800. Some of them are never mentioned in the maintenance recommendations (power steering fluid, for example). I asked the service manager "How did you come to these recommendations -- I only needed the dimmer light replaced and the brakes inspected?" He said "We were just making some checks for you. We found that these fluids were dirty". I asked "how do you know?" He said "we put our finger in".
Well town hall: Do I need to flush all these fluids? We have had ZERO problems with this car.
thanks!
we take a few trips each year up to the Outer Banks on the beach at the Point in Buxton to surf-fish so I need at least 4wd high and air-down tires to 18-20 to keep us rolling on the beach.. sometimes 4wd-L gets used on the real fluffy stuff up there..
now if there was some way I could get a Suburban 1500 with the 6.0 motor's 2500 HD-tranny.. I would be really happy.. but that's a make-believe world and 'it ain't gonna happen'... so I just have to hope the new one's tranny doesn't act up like our other two '01's did on occasion...
as far as GM loyalty... I go for the better truck at the right price.. whoever does the deal for the truck I want at the time.. Chevy, Ford.. makes no matter to me.. if Ford had come out right now with their expected stretched Expedition ...that's supposed to replace the Excursion... and at the size of the Burban I would have looked real hard at it.. since that's not expected until '06 maybe next time for me.. what it came down to ..I still want 'big'..
just remember .." if it ain't broke, don't fix it"... I personally would have the fluids looked at and checked.. if ok and they aren't due for a required service or change.. leave them alone..but that's me
I'd go to a reputable trusting mechanic.. sometimes they are hard to find.. rather than the Chevy dealer.. even though I get along ok with my dealer, when they go to do services like that, boy do they 'add' things on at exorbitant prices.. I trust my local Napa service shop a lot more.. he's a straight-up kinda shop.. won't do anything that doesn't need to be done..
Why Ford built the Excursion on a F350 chassis instead of the Expedition's F150 is beyond me. I guess they really misjudged the market which is more people-carrier than work truck! Maybe they will get it right in 2006?
The nice ride of a 1500 LT with the street tires (and the heated leather seats with power lumbar!) sold my wife on getting the Suburban!
stakeout: btw, you can get the 1500 with LT tires: the Z71 has 'em!
glsable2 (previously known as glsable!)
glsable2 (previoulsy glsable)
glsable2
The Denali's price and lower fuel mileage steered me away (-2 mpg vs. the YXL and Suburban). I am curious to know how much of this is due to the 6.0 and how much to the AWD.
glsable2
btw, is that Erin & Erin or Erin & Aaron!? :-)
Disappointments? Our biggest ones are its antiquated 3rd row accomodations (which we found 15 years behind mini-van design standards!):
No arm rests. No cubbyhole covers. Leg room restricted by the poorly-designed middle row seat mounts. 2nd and 3rd seat rows do not slide forward/aft to adjust legroom.
The middle row buckets were a great improvement - a requirement for us to gain easy access to the 3rd row down the center aisle.
Window shades on those big side windows would be nice to keep the heat out (check out the built-in window shades on the new Sienna mini-van!).
And opening windows in the 3rd row would be nice too.
And how about reconsidering the 6-door design bandied about several years ago?
Nevertheless we are still happy with our 1500 LT, but there is always room for improvement!
glsable2
glsable2
My 2-cents:
1. flush brake fluid
I think brake fluid has a "calendar life" that might warrant changing after 10 years, although I can't say that I have ever changed mine in any car!
2. flush power steering fluid
ditto
3. flush transfer case fluid
I'd at least follow the manual, but probably a good idea ocassionally even if the manual says it never needs changing (just like most people change the oil more often than required)
4. flush transmission fluid
probably a very good idea to do this! Note that there is a difference between draining and refilling (about $50) and a full replacement of the tranny fluids (about $150?). The latter is better.
5. flush fuel distribution system
buy a can of STP injection cleaner and put it in the fuel tank instead!
6. change PCV
only $4 to do it yourself!