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Curious as to why you aren't considering the QX4, or if you did, why it is not in the running. Would like to hear anything positive/negative from anyone else as well.
Thanks!
sjbette - here are my recent experiences on the "negotiation front". We originally pursued one of those "no-haggle" discounts from a club (AAA, Cosco, etc.). This discount is a paltry $1K for the 3.0 and an insulting $500 for the 4.4.
In retrospect, I don't think I would do this again since it creates a no-haggle expectation on their part. When I attempted to negotiate MORE (yesterday), the response was "it wouldn't be fair to my other discount customers since they just accept the price". (Good point / fair point)
Still, I thought there was more wiggle room. After a 30-minute no-holds-barred session I negotiated an additional $500 off the MSRP. Simply not worth it!
Although I'm now in the "consideration stage", I think I'll try another dealer in the area and start over (W/O the discount restriction).
Other "facts" I learned from the last two days (take these with a GOS (grain of salt):
1) As of Jan. 30, 90% of the 2002 X5 allocation has already been spoken for. (dealer said this)
2) February's production order has already been filled and March's orders will be filled in the next 3 to 4 days. This means waiting to have the car MADE in March (delivered in mid-April)...and that's if you jump on this in the next few days, otherwise you may be waiting an additional month!!
(dealer said this)
3) An additional wait for the 2003 models does not seem so far-fetched right now.
Hope you have better luck than me!
I heard from people at bimmer.org message board that 4.4i is a little harder to get due to limited production of 4.4i cause the new range-rovers are using them also I think the 4.4i is being phased out cause of the new 4.5L V8. So the discount on 4.4i is less than 3.0i.
If your area is supported by many BMW dealers just keep on shopping. I got around $1789 off with some goddies thrown in back in December when I pickup my 4.4i.
Hope this helps.
Please help...
http://isuzu-suvs.com/events/pb02-17-01/index.html
A Light off-road event in Southern New Jersey! Come enjoy the trails!
-mike
Because I wanted a reliable vehicle along with not wanting to spend over $40K, my search was limited. I ignored the RX300 because it is too ugly and pretty much a jacked up Camry and it costs more than the MDX. I thought the Toyota Highlander might be a good cheap substitute, but the Toyota dealer insisted on the $35K asking price. I looked at the Infinity QX4 and the Mercedes ML 300, they both looked too boxy for me. Also the reliability issue with the MB is questionable. My friend has had numerous problems with her ML 300 and it only has 15K miles!! The BMW also has a poor reliability record according to the Consumer Reports. So I am left with the MDX.
Unfortunately I am still waiting. Although the dealer did called me twice; once for a 2001 MDX and the other time for a different color. But overall, I think its worth the wait. Even paying at MSRP it is still cheaper than the $40K Rx 300, the $42K BMW X5, the $38K MB with compariable options. The MDX is loaded with standard features. It drives and handles very well. I hope the cabin noise is minimized with the thicker windows in the 2002 model. I guess if you don't mind the wait the MDX is right for you.
For an after thought, I agree with you on the toy highlander. Price 35k and no even close to the ride of the other suv's I test drove.(mb,bmw,lexus,mdx and qx4).
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Will having this Acura make you feel superior, knowing you're first to have it. How would it feel driving up next to a BMW X5, realizing those drivers know you had to pay full sticker and more.
Unless you're Bill Gates, shop around. The money you save can buy you those after market accessories. I'm not knocking any Make, but just be smart in your buying decisions.
http://autonet.ca/AutonetStories/stories.cfm?storyID=4487
http://www.womanmotorist.com/ftrs/carlaw-v10-01.shtml
You know the phrase, pay now or pay later. Do your oil change regularly regradless if it's a jguar or Toyota folks.
The review said MB fixed the poor built quality issue with new 2002 model, and the dealer in NJ is asking 1200 over the Invoice (which is almost 3k less than the MSRP).
BMW dealer told me that there is 5-6 weeks waiting period for X5, and they are not selling it a dime below the MSRP, which makes X5 5k more than the ML320 model with similar configuration.
But the Quality Issue of old ML320 really bugs me.
Can anyone advise on this one?
If the "minivan look" kept you out of Benz, why'd you find it acceptable with the MDX? Every review I read mentioned the MDX's mini-van look (the MB actually looks more like a milk truck, not a minivan) and I thought the same thing when I drove it. You do know the MDX is a Honda minivan underneath, right? Sure you wouldn't be just as happy with the (MDX clone and) lower-priced Honda Pilot when it rolls out in a few months?
Regardless, it's a nice vehicle and you should be happy with it.
You should drive the ML500, I think you'll like the performance. The V8 is quite powerful, certainly more so than the X5 3.0's V6. A well-equpped ML500 can be bought for under $50k which certainly compares favorably with the 8-cylinder X5.
The real problem isn't reliability (which IMO is "starts, goes, stops"), it's the minor nagging issues like peeling door handles, mooing steering columns, and strange key memory behavior. Fortunately the warranty covers everything and it's reflected in the new total cost of ownership calculator (showing $0s for maintenance & repair for the 1st 3 years).
IMO none of that takes away from the X5's amazing performance characteristics. Mine seemed to really break in after 5K miles -- torque curve feels extremely flat up to 6K rpms. I've taken to driving mine in steptronic manual mode as it gives me more control over engine power, but I always have the option of throwing it over to "D" and letting the software do the work. Pretty cool. I'm with you -- best vehicle I've ever had.
I imagine the X5's lack of cargo space keeps most potential buyers away, although the max payload of the X5 is higher than a lot of competitors with better volume characteristics. I suppose it all depends on whether you're hauling bars of gold or bags of marshmallows.
But yes all these won't take away its driving dynamics and my colleague is probably just out of luck. I'm still have my sight on the next 5er and E-class.
thx.
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I am planning to buy a new 2003 either MDX or ML320. Could someone please tell me which is the best between these 2,considering all aspect like safety, reliability and resale value?
Thanks in advance.
It's rumored to be just a tad bigger, have a 3.5L V-6 and 2 extra seats.
www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=28993
ML320 wins every time, hands down.
MDX is missing HID and VSC, but it's AWD system is better then the RX.
The MDX has an edge in build quality. The first year was above average according to Consumer Reports and JD Power, while the ML320 still struggles to achieve just "average" in its fifth model year. That said, the ML320's quality has come a long way and odds are you'll be fine.
For resale value, it's hard to gauge, but right now the MDX is ahead. Check www.kbb.com. The resale values of the MDX may not stay high in the long-term, but the same holds true for the ML320 (e.g. it is being replaced in about two years with a new generation, plus supposedly this year or next there will be an ML350 that will replace the ML320).
There are a lot of other attributes positive and negative about the vehicles, but I just wanted to attempt to answer your specific questions.
Also, you may want to consider the new Volvo XC90. A fairly well-equipped one should sell for about $41k. For safety, while its AWD system may not be quite as capable as the ML's and it won't have rear side airbags, it should exceed the current-generation ML320 in some areas. Quality is a question mark. Don't know about resale value.
Can become extremely unsafe at the "edge", that.
In other words the point at which you wish you weren't relying on ONLY the front tires' contact patch for BOTH lateral and logitudinal "control".
I happend to see the pics of new, redesigned 2003 Toyota 4 Runner and it looks greattt!!! I was wondering if I can even compare 4 Runner with MDX and ML320? If so, what would be the difference and which one would be a good choice!
My Mercedes dealer told me that now they have got 2003 ML320s, but 2003 ML350 would be available sometime in Dec. I dont know if I have to wait and if the wait is worth? He is ready to give 3K less than MSRP for 02 ML320s (38.5K with M1 package)
Now I am kind of confused to choose from ML350, MDX and 4 Runner !!! Someone please help me to choose one of these 3.
The 2003 4Runner is a fairly different animal, but, on paper, a highly competent vehicle (at least!).
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
After driving a number of different SUV's ( I have a Land Cruiser) we believe that the MDX is probably the best for the money. Drive's great, looks better (to us) than Lexus RX 300, etc..
I have a friend who is a GM at a Acura dealership so I can buy a MDX Touring for a great price (Invoice plus 200).
My wife is only considering a Jag S type or the MDX. I think the MDX will be a better vehicle in the long run.
Any last words of advice before I take the plunge?
Thanks.
Followings are my priorities, in order,
1. Safety
2. Acceleration performance (no towing though)
3. Quality
4. Resale value
5. Luxury Brand
6. Off Road
7. Cargo room and Passenger room
Since I live in Colorado, I would definitely like to go off road, but that is not a priority.
When I went for skiing last winter with my wife, my Ford Explorer lost control on the icy road (at 50MPH), my car slipped from the road, I applied break(human tendency), ABS locked the brakes and my car went and hit the shoulders. Luckily we didn't get hurt, but insurance has to replace both bumpers. This incident made us nervous and the safety issue became a mental block.
I definitely don't want that to happen again if I go for skiing this winter. Someone wrote that MDX is kind of car like driving, FWD and it does not have control if you apply brake by mistake. I was also told that ML320 would greatly perform in such situations.
Now, Could you suggest me which one would suit me fine in ML320, MDX or 4 Runner?
Thanks.
There is one you didn't mention that, while more expensive, is head and shoulders above the others when it comes to AWD performance, the X5.
A contact of ours is looking for a group of luxury SUV enthusiasts who would be willing to come to Irvine, CA August 24th from 9am to 3pm for a test drive, focus group and lunch. Participants will be compensated for their time. If you are interested in participating in this event, please send an email with your contact information as well as the model vehicle you drive to: chotti@earthlink.net.
Thanks for your consideration!
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I have had one almost one year and love it. Just averaged 20 mpg for 2000 mile trip. MDX was smooth, comfortable, and engaging all the way.
1. Safety
I think the best in your list of vehicles are the M-class and the upcoming XC90. The MDX is no slouch, however. It comes down to refining what you mean about safety -- do you want a vehicle that should be "very safe", or do you want a vehicle that is as safe as possible in the price range? If absolute safety is your top priority, I think the M-class and XC90 are in the next rung up the safety ladder. M-class offers an excellent true 4WD system, stability control, Brake Assist, a reinforced roof structure, available bi-xenons and numerous other touches. The MDX offers none of these. The XC90 offers a reinforced roof structure, available bi-xenons, stability control, roll stability control, whiplash protection, etc.
So I think that the MDX is a safe vehicle, but the XC90 and M-class are even safer. Based on the type of accident you're trying to avoid, frankly, I would recommend the M-class. The power-to-all-wheels-at-all-times should help you in severe road conditions, whereas the MDX and XC90 are both primarily FWD until slippage occurs. Then even if you do run into trouble, the stability control system should help pull you out of trouble (obviously it can't defy the laws of physics, though -- it is quite possible your skid was unavoidable no matter which vehicle you were driving).
I don't know enough about the new 4Runner to comment on this. It should do well, however, and better than the MDX in Colorado.
2. Acceleration performance (no towing though)
This makes it tougher. Frankly, I think the ML320 is sluggish. It's torquey but the vehicle has simply put on a lot of weight over the years. Its acceleration is "acceptable" for most driving but it definitely pales next to the MDX, which is noticeably faster at a number of powerbrands (standing start, merging from a ramp, or during highway passing). In fact, as far as pure acceleration goes, the MDX isn't far from the discontinued ML430.
Rumor has it that the 2003 MDX will get another 20 horses, don't know about torque. However, the ML350 with its 3.7 liter engine should address the acceleration issue (though at a cost of mileage).
I suspect that the 2.5T version of the XC90 will have somewhat leisurely, but at least acceptable, acceleration. The T6 should do great but that's more expensive.
I'd recommend you wait for the ML350 in this case. Not sure how the new 4Runner will accelerate.
3. Quality
Well, the MDX is going to be better than the XC90 and M-class here, period. But the M-class is finally nearing average quality, and, so long as you don't expect a higher level, you should be fine. It is very, very important that you find a good dealership that will support you. Some dealerships, MB or otherwise, aren't particularly good. I also might suggest an extended warranty.
Of the M-class, XC90, and MDX, I think that your needs might be best met by an ML350. BTW I own an MDX -- my priorities were, in no particular order, "very good" safety, ride comfort, cargo room, good acceleration, and better-than-average quality. The MDX happened to fit those priorities very well, so we bought it. I did, however, wrestle with the safety issue for the longest time and came very close to buying an ML320.
You haven't mentioned the X5. I think it's around the same level as the ML320 and XC90, though don't get the sports package if you're going to go on snow! I disagree with Willard, and think that the ML320's near-symmetric 4WD is better than the X5, but that's another can of worms I'm not going to get into. The X5 is at a disadvantage in some other areas, though. It uses sausage head protection airbags which, while excellent and at least available, are not as thorough as side curtains (but I wouldn't make a buying decision just based on this). Also, I have seen some bad photos of two X5 rollovers with plenty of crushing in the roof (to date, I've seen a number of M-class rollovers and only in one accident did the damage look really bad). I suspect the M-class and the XC90 are simply better than the X5 in this respect. The X5 does have good acceleration. Quality is probably behind the ML320 at this point, though it's probably significantly improved since introduction.
Cargo room is abysmal, even if BMW doesn't call it an SUV. but that might not be important for you.